So, when does this group close down?

[regnaD kciN]

Because, I'm sorry to say, I see the day coming in the very near future where it will be possible to say one is Roman Catholic or progressive, but not both.

:cry:

[Midlodemocrat]

1. I hope never.

I am not abandoning my Church and my heritage because of the actions of men.


(My mom taught me that. and I think it is a great motto to live by)

[regnaD kciN]

2. But, if you believe that the Holy Spirit guided this election...

...can you really chalk it up to "the actions of men?"

[Celeborn Skywalker]

3. I see what you're saying but,

there have been far, far worse popes in the past. Think back to the middle ages when many popes were corrupt and basically evil. They still managed to keep the Church intact. Plus, I think the Ratzinger papacy will be fairly short and I doubt he'll make any infallible proclamations.

[regnaD kciN]

6. If he doesn't make any infallible proclamations...

...and that includes repeating his pre-papal proclamation that Humanae Vitae and Apostolicae Curae are already infallible statements :puke: , a Ratzintger papacy may be survivable.

However, keep this in mind: assuming a "fairly short" papacy, the conclave that will choose the next Pope will be made up of the same cardinals who chose Ratzinger...plus anyone he elevates to cardinal status. And I seriously doubt that any of them will be any more "liberal" than the cardinals who chose him. :scared:

[Matilda]

9. The possibility of "ex cathedra" statements is the big worry.

They've seldome been invoked, and I can hang in there if we don't
have any during Ratzinger's tenure. But he's so hardline, so
manipulative, I'm not at all positive.

[Princess Turandot]

10. I believe Papal statements invoking the doctrine of infallibility

have occured twice in the last 200 years. One was invoked in the 1950's related to the Blessed Mother. They require specialized language in the proclamations, and are a very big deal (and misunderstood since most people, including Catholics, do not understand what that Doctrine involves.) I do not think that a sudden spurt in such affirmations by Ratzinger would be well received by the College of Cardinals. It would speak to far too much arrogance for even them to tolerate in one man.

[regnaD kciN]

11. But what can they do about it?

I do not think that a sudden spurt in such affirmations by Ratzinger would be well received by the College of Cardinals. It would speak to far too much arrogance for even them to tolerate in one man.

Once a Pope has been selected, he is in absolute power, answerable to no one but God. Should such proclamations not be "well received" by the cardinals, there is no way for them to impeach him or remove him from office, or any way for they, or even his successors, to "undo" those proclamations -- unless, of course, Rome took the inconcievable step of declaring it was wrong in promulgating the dogma of Papal Infallibility altogether. (Which, even though I think they were wrong to do, has as much chance of taking place in this or several other lifetimes as pigs have of replacing 747s on tranatlantic routes.)

[Princess Turandot]

13. Are you a Catholic?

I had the impression from the Christian Board that you were not.
Why are you asking for starters when this group will shut down?

Changes of official church policy almost always do not occur by fiat of one person, but rather in consultation with the other Cardinals.
Vatican II took years of meetings to finalize. I'm not a mind reader but sudden impulsive use of the Doctrine of Infallibility seems unlikely to me. It's almost never been used since its introduction.

[Midlodemocrat]

4. Yes. Free will.

I do believe that the Holy Spirit guided this election, but I also believe in free will. Maybe there will be some unity from this. Hope is a wonderful thing.

[etherealtruth]

14. IF this Pope ends up being one who alienates and polarizes ...

... It's possible that he will then become a catalyst for change-------The chimp has certainly mobilized liberals/progressives in ways that we have not been mobilized in decades.

My statement is predicated by an "if"----it is certainly POSSIBLE that Benedict XIV will surprise us all and if not...

[DemBones DemBones]

5. Weren't you the poster who first linked to the

Pope-U-Lator? 'Cause I gotta tell you, I played around with it a good bit and the only cardinal who came out in the top five for BOTH a progressive and a conservative agenda was Ratzinger. He also came out in the top five for theological knowledge/ depth and for administrative skills. Assuming the person(s) who programmed the Pope-U-Lator knew what was what with the cardinals, that's why the cardinals chose this man. That and the faith that John Paul II had in him.

I think he'll support the Church's teachings, including Vatican II. I think he'll be ecumenical, since that's an area he worked in after Vatican II, and I think he'll pay more attention to managing the Church than John Paul II did. I also read that he wrote something suggesting that annulments could/ should be easier to get. If he makes any big changes, my guess would be allowing priests to marry, due to the shortage of priests. I could also see him clamping down on seminaries to make sure that seminarians are getting proper formation for the priesthood, because he's had to deal with the problem priests, including the pedophiles, in his assignment under John Paul II.

Another thing I read was that he'll be better-informed to make episcopal appointments -- John Paul II made some bad choices.

[regnaD kciN]

7. I hope you're right...

...but, to me, it's a hope that flies in the face of all the evidence. Ratzinger has accumulated quite a track record over the past twenty-five years...and practically none of it should be comforting to progressives.

To me, hoping that Ratzinger will accomplish what you hope he will is a little bit like, if Bush named Ashcroft to the SCOTUS, hoping that he will turn out to be a voice for privacy rights and the First Amendment.

[IronLionZion]

8. Will you please take a deep breath and calm down?

geez get a grip, nobody is going to stop you from helping the poor and caring about people.

And here's the link to the pope u lator in case you want to test it out.
http://www.pope-u-lator.com/

Dembones found that Ratzinger came in the top 5 over a wide range of scenarios.

[regnaD kciN]

12. No, but it means...

...that any chance that I will live to join in worship with my Roman Catholic brothers and sisters, in bonds of equality and common affection, have gone right out the window.

:-(

[Padraig18]

15. can't speak fo anyone else, but I have no plans to leave.

If anything, I may need this group in the future more than I ever have.

[demosincebirth]

16. I'd advise you to go to an inner-city parish and see for yourself

how progressive the Church is. Go visit a St Vincent de Paul dinning room and see what they do. They Church is alive and well! It is doing what Christ told us to do.

[DemBones DemBones]

17. Amen to that!

:thumbsup: