How many Catholics have heard their priests denounce homosexuality?

[imenja]

in your local parishes? How common is this? Is this something more important to Church doctrine than actual practice?

[Celeborn Skywalker]

1. My priest has never, ever discussed this.

He also has never said a thing about abortion. Most of his sermons are purely on theological matters such as the Virgin Mary or Jesus' miracles. I would have to change parishes if we ever get a priest that talks extensively about the "evils" of homosexuality.

[imenja]

3. me either

but since we're being pilloried for this on DU now, I thought I'd ask. I know parishes vary a great deal.

[belladonna]

36. My priest and homosexuallity

I attended the Cathedral of the Holy Cross High School in Boston and my priest talked about it with me. He showed what homosexuals were and I liked it.

[Cuban_Liberal]

2. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. Ever. n/t

[imenja]

4. My eighth grade teacher

was a nun who became an alderwoman. She became a tireless champion for gay rights. When she died the Church overflowed with well wishers, literally hundreds of gay men and women grateful for her leadership.

Sister Jackie Slater was her name. When she was my teacher, she fussed at me about my posture all the time. It was some years later when she ran for elective office.

We also had birth control education in that same school. I remember condoms being passed around so we could learn how to use them. The nuns, however, were not in the room at the time. They brought someone in to teach the class.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

5. THAT is awesome!

With all the things people say about us, most of it is the crazies in our religion, not the mainstream. It makes me ill. They always talk about Muslims and how they have a few crazies which make them look bad and that's not good...well, there's always a double standard here when it comes to anyone of the Christian faith, but most especially Catholics. What a lovely Sister that woman was, and what a wonderful example of Christian love in action. You are lucky to have know her!!
Duckie

[imenja]

6. have you ever heard your priest/s talk about homosexuality?

I'd like to get a fair sampling, for better or worse.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

17. No...

Since I've started going to mass last fall, I've never heard anything about it from my priest or from the deacon. Actually, the only thing I've heard about it is an organization called Rachel's Garden, a support group for women who have had abortions, which I actually think isn't a bad idea, that they have announcements about in the church bulletin. And there is a memorial marker and a candle out in the garden that stays lit for fetuses who have been aborted at the Parish in Weatherford, OK. But as for hearing about it from our priest or deacon, I haven't.
Duckie

[XanaDUer]

7. I used to attend Mass every Sunday and Holy Day.

Never. Went through 16+ years of Catholic education, college, never heard this.

And I know quite a few devout, practicing Catholic gays.

NOT ONE WORD.

EDIT: Typo

[etherealtruth]

8. I know this is the typical American Catholic experience ...

...The two Gay men that I have had close friendships with were members of Catholic religious orders. Despite that, I don't think anyone can deny that the message from Rome is anything but accepting of homosexuality.

Many here disagree with my point that the US Catholic church is, in many ways, different than the church in other parts of the world. Yes, stats reflect that Catholics (on this and just about everything else) in the U.S. mirror the values of the U.S. and NOT the stance from Rome

The Catholic Church isn't a real fan of sex that is not procreative, so sex outside of marriage (heterosexual) isn't viewed much differently than homosexual sex...

[imenja]

12. You are quite correct there is no disputing that Church doctrine

is hostile toward gays. I read some of the statements available on the Vatican website and they are highly intolerant. What I'm wondering, however, is about actual experiences within the Church. Did you attend a Church outside of the US? And would you might saying a bit more about the two friends you mention?

[etherealtruth]

18. This has made me melancholy ...

... I "hung out" with the guys who were members of a Catholic brotherhood (I don't recall which orders)while in my early to mid 20's, we drifted apart over the years and I'm now 43---so it's been a long time. As I think about them I am missing Brother "X" horribly right now.

To be honest I never discussed with them how they reconciled their sexuality with the Catholic church (neither decided to keep their vows of celibacy)--- they were far more concerned with MY eternal salvation and attempted valiantly to get me to reconcile with the church.

I have never been more than a visitor to churches outside the U.S. and rely upon published statistics for accurate reflections of world beliefs (there's a poll that was published in USA Today that I frequently refer to for ease). I do know Goan Catholics and Filipino Catholics who are far more adherent to the edict's of the Vatican than are Americans.

I have never heard a parish priest talk about homosexuality at all.

[Princess Turandot]

9. never..

I've never heard one comment on abortion either. I worked for awhile at a Catholic hospital effectively owned by an order of Sisters and never heard any of them condemn much of anything, except social injustice. In fact they were quite active in the recent UN conference on violence against women, rights of women etc.

[CBHagman]

10. I've never heard a priest discuss it from the pulpit.

I've only heard natural family planning discussed once during a homily. Abortion has come up only slightly more frequently than that.

And that's in 46 years of being a Catholic.

[scarlet_owl]

11. Never heard him say anything about it.

He talks about how we shouldn't judge others and that we are here to love our fellow man no matter what.

[IronLionZion]

13. Never,

not in Somerset, PA, and not in Rochester, NY either. My priest in Somerset regularly rails about the evils of abortion and how Protestants , Muslims, etc. are "heathens" but I've never heard him mention homosexuality even once.

[Padraig18]

14. Not only have I never heard it denounced, BUT...

... we are openly a couple, active in our parish, etc., and the only time it ever came up privately between us and our priest, he said "Only God knows your hearts". There's lots of 'official' teaching from Rome that just never seems to find its way onto the parish level...

[Zynx]

15. Not our regular priest, but we had a guest priest once who did.

He railed against "Atheism, agnosticism, secularism, abortion, homosexuality, etc..."

[hedgehog]

16. Our priest spoke about homosexuality last winter when the

first reading was from the book of Genesis about Abraham bargaining with God to save Sodom and Gomorrah. He took the opportunity to point out that the sins of those cities was lack of hospitality for strangers, not homosexual acts. A lesbian couple brought up the gifts at the Offertory by his special request. He has also been very supportive of my daughter since she came out.

[Matilda]

19. Not here either.

Not a word about it.

[UrbScotty]

20. No mention of this whatsoever at any church to which I've been.

Thanks be to God for priests who understand.

[Xithras]

21. Only once

Two girls from our church committed suicide, and the following sunday our priest gave a homily on the importance of family involvement in young peoples lives and the dangers and pressures that teenagers face today. In when he started running down the list of sins, evils, and temptations that kids face today, I was mildly suprised to hear him list homosexuality along with sexual promiscuity, drug use, pedophilia, and about 10 other "corrupting influences".

That's the only time I've ever heard the word "homosexual" mentioned in church. I've never heard "gay", "lesbian", or any of the derogatory terms used.

[imenja]

22. that is unfortunate

because gay teens are at especially high risk of suicide.

[demosincebirth]

23. Never, that I can remember

[DemBones DemBones]

24. Never! The Church says God loves everyone equally

and that expressly includes homosexuals. It is sex outside marriage that is a sin as far as I know. I once read a book written by a bishop that specifically said oral sex was an acceptable practice in marriage and the book had an imprimatur and nihil obstat. Of course it's a catch 22 that same sex marriage isn't allowed so all homosexual sex acts take place outside marriage.

I have never read or heard that sex between two men or two women is any more sinful than sex between a man and a woman who are not married to each other. And of course all sins can be confessed and absolution given, though the catch is that the penitent must be repentant of the sin.

[Dorian Gray]

25. My husband

who went to a seminary in Rome (he was studying to become a priest, but decided against it), has many friends who are in the priesthood. They range in political conviction from very liberal to very conservative. We go to Mass every Sunday, and usually one other day of the week.

I have NEVER EVER EVER heard a priest denounce homosexuality on the pulpit.

I have, however, had personal conversations with priests about homosexuality. I was worried because the priest who performed my wedding is a Monsignor in NYC, and he's relatively conservative. I had invited quite a few friends who were gay to our wedding, and I wanted to talk with him about it. (I was worried about his reaction.)

His reaction? I believe his words were: "So what? Why does everyone think that I will hate homosexuals?" I was so (happily) surprised by his non-reaction. At our reception, he talked with all of our friends and treated everyone with dignity! (Although he and the other priest who was the co-celbrant spent the most time with my friend's sister, who suffered brain damage years ago! They each even shared a dance with her.)

And he's one of the most religiously conservative priests that I know.

I know why people may distrust the Catholic Church, but my experiences in it have been nothing but positive. I've learned love, charity, and goodness through the people that I've met in the church. And it is for that reason that I stay and continue to love the church.

I rarely hear condemnation of anybody's lifestyle. There may be the generic "culture of evil," but overall, our priests focus on the positives of helping those who need help in our community.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tjwmason]

27. Never heard it denounced

For some back-ground, I'm somwhat floating between the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church at the moment - my views are very firmly Catholic, and I have many ties with the Anglo-Catholic wing of the C.ofE.

Most weeks I attend Mass at the local R.C. parish where it has never been mentioned or even alluded to - the Parish Priest is incredibly strong on the notion that Christianity is loving one another, it would not fit with that message for him to engage in gay-bashing.

I have only heard homosexuality mentioned once, that was at S. Mary's, Bourne Street (one of the well known Anglo-Catholic parishes in London) - this was in the aftermath of the appointment of a gay man as Bishop of Reading and him subsequently being forced to withdraw following pressure from evangelical Anglicans; then it was mentioned in passing in a denunciation of the total lack of charity which had been displayed towards Dr. John, and the witch-hunt atmosphere.

It should be noted as well, that for as long as Anglo-Catholicism has existed in England it has had a strong number of gays involved. It is very likely, on the basis of contemporary descriptions, that right back in the 19th century the movement attracted a great number of gays (though obviously people didn't have such a conception).

This continues today, and in some of the most conservative parts of the C.ofE. - by which I mean parishes who will not accept the ministrations of Bishops who ordain women-priests, yet they don't bat an eyelid at pretty openly gay couples in their midst (including in the Sanctuary) as we are all sinners kneeling around the Altar.

[pelagius]

28. Similiar experience with gay Anglo-Catholics...

...here, too. In fact, I'd say at this point, if you tried to purge Anglo-Catholicism of gays, you'd lose a huge percentage of your laity _and_ your clergy.

And, FWIW, many my gay brothers and sisters in Christ are often quite theologically orthodx (more so than I am) and monogamous or celibate in a way I never was before I was married.

[imenja]

29. though the Episcopal Church is facing schism

over the ordination of an openly gay bishop in the US. Since Catholic priests are celibate, I expect it makes it easier to avoid discussion on the issue. From all accounts, a large portion of priests in the US are oriented toward homosexuality. Having read Church doctrine on the subject, available through the Vatican website, it's clear that they don't see homosexual desire as sinful, but they do see homosexual sex and all sex outside of marriage as sinful. The Doctrine of the Faith denounced political support for gay marriage as evil. None of this is okay with me, but it's not the denunciations of gays as evil that so many accuse the Church of.

[struggle4progress]

30. I regularly heard priests denounce gay-bashing when I attended mass.

I don't remember anything about homosexuality during the homily except that it was time to stop attacking gays. It was a progressive parish ...

[TriMetFan]

31. Not once. As a matter a fact.....

My Church has marched in Gay Pride. Every one from our Priest to others know that I'm a Lesbian and that my partner and I have been together for over 18 years. We have 2 little boys that go to Sunday School, plus our Church helps with our payments for our oldest to attend a Catholic School.

[JohnKleeb]

32. No, never

The way some people talk about Catholicism, they think all our masses are condemnations of GLBT folk which is an utter bunch of crap.

[mmonk]

33. Never

which probably explains the gap between the faithful and doctrine.

[TankLV]

34. YES - both here in Las Vegas and when I was in Honolulu.

One of the main reasons I've never been back and don't regret my decision for a second!

But only in a couple of times.

There certainly hasn't been a PEEP from my fellow catholics loudly criticizing this bigotry! Oh, sure, they quietly tell me PERSONALLY, when no one else can hear, that they support me and love me - but they NEVER have raised their voices in opposition to this hatred and bigotry! Just like all the professed bluster only here on DU by catholics.

I'm tired of all the bigotry and silence condoning it.

You are either part of the solution or part of the problem!

Silence is deadly!

[DemBones DemBones]

35. You need to read the guidelines for posting in the Catholic group,

which are posted and pinned at the top of the forum.

This paragraph is particularly important:

This group is intended to be a venue for those who desire to discuss stated topics and is not intended as a forum to argue against Catholic/Orthodox belief or the Catholic/Orthodox Churches, members, or clergy.
 

[demosincebirth]

37. You certainly must be the exception

Many of us catholics here have never heard bigotry against gays and lesbians in our Churches we belong to, but to love one another like Christ loves us. They just don't preach it.
Would you name the Churches in which you heard this bigotry?

"But only a couple of times." and you left the Church?

[elshiva]

38. I went to a Catholic College...

College of Notre Dame of Maryland (CONDOM), wherein the most of the religious marriage and family courses were taught by a nun who was very affirming of being gay as a way of life. Also another nun included homophobia in her course about discrimination. There was a lesbian (besides me!) who was a religious studies major and she brings her woman partner, an Episcopal priest, to religious studies circles. It really is a blessed place! Please pray for gay rights! Thank you!

[bettys boy]

39. An outsider asks

Given the rift in the worldwide Anglican Communion over this issue...

Given the rift between Roman Catholic clergy and laity over this issue...

Given the liturgical similarity between the traditions...

Given the Roman Catholic church already ordaining MARRIED Anglican clergy who are leaving over this issue...

It seems that both Churches are suffering - mightily - from the strain of reconciling too many differences. Why isn't there movement toward forming two new Anglo-Catholic Communions - one orthodox, one reformed? Would this not re-invigorate both?

[elshiva]

40. Well, I would not support it if it would calcify homophobia,

which I think it would...

[shrike]

44. Interesting idea

Don't know what I think of it. I'll have to ponder it for a while.

[shrike]

45. I'm liking this idea more and more

But don't see how it could happen. If you happen to check back on this thread, tell me what you think.

[The Jacobin]

48. I've heard one such priest

He came to the Catholic church from the Epispical church specifically because of gay marriage and women as priests. He's an ass who was assigned to another parish, fortunately.

He did say his reasons for coming to the Catholic church, but that's all.

As an aside, this is a subject we gloss over in RCIA in my parish. One session is on the sacrament of marriage where we spend time talking about the sacrament, programs like Marriage Encounter, natural family planning, and the sixth commandment "you shall not commit adultry." I usually will put in an aside explaning the opposition to extra-marital sex extends to homosexual sex.

[DemBones DemBones]

49. I think that hardly counts since he was an Episcopal priest

first -- presumably raised in the Episcopal Church and certainly trained as an Episcopal priest.

[SeanQuinn]

41. Did you call it CONDOM as a nickname?

Because honestly, that's an unfortunate nickname for a school. Kind of like here at All Souls School, we threw in the Catholic so no acronyms can be invented.

[DemBones DemBones]

47. My guess is that the students call it that, not

the faculty or administrators! But we've talked about school team names in the Lounge before and I was not the only one who went to a HS where the team was called the Trojans.

:blush:

[shrike]

43. College in my area

Very small Catholic college. Taken a few classes there.

I can think of a couple openly gay students. Religion is so low-key in that place that if crosses weren't on the walls, and if you didn't see women in habits and men in clerical collars, you wouldn't know it was a Catholic college.

To those who criticize the church, I always point to the clergy, faculty and students of the school and the work they do. They have a mission to Central America every year to do very nuts and bolts things: build schools, install hi-tech centers. They're also big on ecology and social justice -- all sorts of clubs and social justice projects for the kids to get involved in.

[SeanQuinn]

42. A few times. Religion teacher - once or twice.

My Pastor's a very right-wing guy though, so I'd expect to hear it from him. The other priest had the nerve to say in the Prayers for the Faithful that he would pray for "..those addicted to drugs, alcohol, pornography, or homosexuality".

My religion teacher for the last two years tries to just stick to Church teaching so she preaches that it's okay to be gay, as long as you don't act on it and that marriage is for procreation.

My new religion teacher, Ms. S is a very hard Rightie, but our focus this year with her will be on Confirmation, and she's not one that likes to talk about the issues until the final bell has rung and school's out for the day.

Well though Mrs. A, my new Social Studies teacher, is also a Republican (as her mom ran for Congress in NJ as one), she seems to be getting more and more liberal. She was going to vote for Bush but her sons got her to change her mind as she couldn't give them one good reason why she was voting for him. :woohoo: Regardless, she was asked off the cuff about homosexuals and gay marriage, and she said she was for diversity..so as we will most likely discuss current events in class, this is good news.

[DemBones DemBones]

46. Your religion teachers weren't priests,

since you mention each of them being female, and it doesn't sound as if any of the three really preached against gays. Apparently your pastor has never preached against gays since you didn't mention anything he said. You didn't say whether the "other priest" was another priest assigned to your parish or a visiting priest. In either case, when he prayed for people addicted to drugs, alcohol, pornography, and homosexuality, he was not, IMO, talking about monogamous homosexual persons but about promiscuity among gays, just as he was talking about those who drive drunk or become alcoholics, ruining their lives and health, not about those who drink in moderation.

I'd have suggested that he amend the prayer to say promiscuity rather than homosexuality because that would also cover heterosexual promiscuity and promiscuity can ruin people's lives and health no matter what the sex of the partners is. But even the way it was phrased, the prayer was focused on various addictions rather than on homosexuality, which is in line with the Catechism's teaching of respect for homosexual persons and with its cautions about moderation in all things.

I realize that your teachers and priests may seem very old-fashioned to you -- every generation thinks that, and is correct to some degree --but it really does not sound like they are preaching against gays.

[SeanQuinn]

50. Well, thanks for your point-of-view. I appreciate it.

I guess I was caught in a little bubble. I use religion teachers as an example because they were hired and are under the parish's authority.

[tmorelli415]

51. Gay and Catholic

and I've never once had a bad experience with a priest when the topic is discussed, nor have I ever heard a priest denonunce homosexuality in any parish I've attended.

The first time I told my priest (I was 19) he said, "do you think God has a problem with two boys giggling under the sheets together?" That was in a very small town parish in what is considered a very rural, very conservative region. I was pretty shocked, but it sort of set the tone for the future.

Usually the priest just tells me to stop worrying about so much if I bring it up in a confessional setting. I think the Church has a much more 'human' view of the issue than the general public believes. I've experienced nothing but acceptance and understanding myself - I know others may have other experiences but most of my gay Catholic friends feel the same way.

My non-Catholic gay friends have a very negative view of the Church. They don't believe me when i tell them my experience, and seem bent on demonizing the Church on the issue. Last year, I lost my best friend of 14 years because he was so angry at me for being Catholic despite the fact that it never came up in our conversations or friendship. A friend died of AIDS and he said that I was partly to blame, and that I am a 'murderer' because the Catholic Church is 'trying to exterminate all of the gays.' It really hurt me because nothing I could say changed things - he demanded I make a choice between our friendship and the Church. It was very hurtful to lose a friend after 14 years over something like that.

There's a lot of misconceptions about how the Church views this issue, and how it treats gay people. The misconceptions are what is most harmful in my experience. That's one of the reasons I try to get people on DU to not attack Christians and Christianity as if we are all like the right wing Fundies - it just causes more misunderstanding and ruins friendships.

[shrike]

52. Glad you've had a good experience with the Church

Catholics as a whole are pretty laid-back and tolerant, in my experience.

Maybe when your friend works through his grief he'll see how wrong it was to make you choose. He needed to blame something for your friend's tragic death and the church is a convenient punching bag. I hope for your sake things will change.

[Rich Hunt]

53. I never heard it

I never heard it at all when I was growing up.

I grew up in an overwhelmingly Catholic community that also had a large gay community.