I will not read pope/Church LBN posts, I will NOT read pope/Church LBN

[4_Legs_Good]

posts. I will NOT read pope/Church LBN posts...

I simply CANNOT stand another freaking "whatever the pope said, let's ream on him for molesting children!" set of 4,000 posts from intolerant people. It's rediculous!

And I can't stand Ratzinger!!!

It drives me crazy. Remind me never to read another pope/Church post in any other forum!

david

[AngryOldDem]

1. MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY....

I just got out of the current cesspool on LBN concerning the Pope's remarks concerning the terrorist bombings. I came here as a respite, as I am ONCE AGAIN considering shaking the "dust from my sandals" and moving on and away from DU. I had the exact same thought as you as I did so.

The illogical game of leapfrog that many here play with the sex abuse scandal and ANY news that comes from Rome is getting to be beyond irritating, especially coming from people who see themselves as "liberal" and "enlightened." The juvenile hypocrisy is getting a bit much to take. Try as you might -- and I HAVE tried -- they still refuse to see the difference between criticism and intolerance and insult.

There's a LOT of displaced anger on DU and Catholics and Catholicism are always there to play whipping boy.

If you see DU as a microcosm of the Democratic Party, and of Democratic thought in general, you have to conclude that the party is in deep trouble. Very deep trouble.

It seems I'm seeing more and more subtle signs of anti-Catholicism everyday, not only here, but in many other places. It frankly scares me.

[DemBones DemBones]

6. It's most annoying when Pope Benedict says Islam is not the problem

and is attacked for saying that. If any thread makes it clear what is going on, that's the one.

[shrike]

8. Isn't it, though

Granted, Benedict was far from my first choice for pope, but at least he's carrying on the outreach to the Muslim world that JPII began. I really see no reason for outrage over that statement.

[AngryOldDem]

10. It came from Benedict.

'Nuff said.

And no, there is no cause for outrage over Benedict's remarks. He is correct.

[WildEyedLiberal]

16. Fortunately, DU is NOT a microcosm of the Democratic Party

For which I am very, very grateful, on many levels.

[ElectroPrincess]

19. Yes, it's a little left leaning but not ALL that much ...

Especially when it comes to religious issues.

As a person raised by parents that, to this date, are still resentful of the harsh treatment within southern Baptist families, I can tell you that an over-emphasis of religious expressions bring out profound IRE from even right-wing secular libertarians.

No, I'm not one of them since I converted to Catholicism during 96'. However, I understand the emotion behind the nasty threads.

They are cold, in poor taste and sometimes just plain mean-spirited toward Christians.

I am able to NOT become angry because there's something else going on under the surface of these posts that we, as an online community, are not privy to, i.e., past experiences of the posters.

It's not "a threat to religion" to me when people post negative judgments regarding the Pope or the Catholic faith. To me, it's just a backlash caused by misunderstandings and bad past experiences with others who they deemed to be Christians.

Doesn't make these nasty posts justified but, because of my past experiences, I can readily understand the driving force behind their angst and ire.

IMO the only answer is to attempt to connect with such people in real life. That way we can show them that Christians do not wish to run our government, but instead, encourage (personally convince each individual, not force through legislation) society to treat everyone in a truly Christian manner.

[Maeve]

2. Reminder--there is a little x box by all threads

Disappear them at first sight, don't go where you'll get angry.

Let's not gripe about other forums--I believe Skinner has asked us to refrain from that, okay?

[4_Legs_Good]

4. did he really?

That kinda sucks, I have to say. We all need somewhere to blow off steam.

Oh well, he's in charge.

And thanks for the reminder about th X box!

david

[DemBones DemBones]

5. Why should we have to hide threads all the time?

Why shouldn't THEY act like grown-ups and liberals?

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CBHagman]

9. I share your view, DemBones.

Granted, it's probably not a bad idea to simply save your energy and posting eloquence for the receptive and the sincere. But there does seem to be an arbitrary system of cracking down at DU, and I'm mystified by it more often than not.

Also, I really think some of the more incendiary posters have a good deal more in common with the people they despise, such as agressive right-wing types, than they realize. There's an insensitivity, a judgmental attitude, an impatience with facts. I go around telling myself that Democrats are generally pretty nice people (so are Republicans, really; it's just the leadership that has the slash-and-burn mentality), and then I come here and see how some DUers are acting. We don't want to become a stereotype of ourselves. :-(

Also, in terms of long-term strategy, it's really unhealthy. Some of it smacks of the "I'm too pure to care about allies" mind-set.

[AngryOldDem]

11. Exactly.

A little housecleaning here and there would do wonders for the discourse on some threads. There are enough intelligent people running DU that I think they could be able to tell the difference between posts that cross the line and those that do not, and enforce the rules accordingly.

While the advice about hiding threads is sound, I often wonder why we are always the ones who are told to "deal with it" and otherwise sit back and take the abuse. Should we not be able to defend ourselves and our faith, no matter how incendiary or (quite frankly) juvenile the attacks? Who knows who may be influenced to reconsider things in the light of another's opinion. And if we are cowed into silence then, indeed, isn't that a form of "persecution" or "intolerance"?

[CBHagman]

3. I have to talk myself out of posting.

If I can just get in the habit of posting factual replies (i.e., "See this link to this informative article! I've included an excerpt here." :-)), I'll be fine. The danger is that I'll start telling someone his/her mother wears Army shoes, etc.

But oh, the stress levels I reach when I wander over into LBN and find The Threads Which Must Not Be Named. Aargh. It's just not worth it.

[Matilda]

12. I generally don't post to these threads, but then I feel like a coward.

Particularly when I see someone I know from this forum posting a
reasoned response. But I know it's a waste of time - there are
people who are and always will be anti-Catholic, and that's what's
really at the bottom of it all. Abusive priests is just a pole for
them to hang their flag on.

[DemBones DemBones]

14. I never hope to change the hard-core

anti-Catholic types, their minds are closed. I only hope to educate some who don't know much about Catholicism and probably aren't aware how serious this prejudice is. It's impossible to know how much good it does and I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to do it.

[JohnKleeb]

13. I saw that man

It angers and saddens me how much hositility there is to my religious faith. I dont even really like Benedict much too but I feel so compelled to defend him against people who are intolerant, I remember seeing the thread about the anti catholic orphenage and people saying the Catholics kinda deserved this, I am glad these kind of people werent on my family's side when they first arrived here as some of the first Catholic immigrants in the US. Hell I dare say that the American Catholic still faces many prejudices, more subtle than obvious of course though. Remember not only 45 years ago did we run a Catholic for president and it was an issue. I am sick of the intolerance, I admit the church isnt perfect but people could at least try to respect our religious faith instead of mocking it. Sigh this is why I guess I dont post much anymore, I am feeling more and more like an outsider.

[DemBones DemBones]

15. Now there's an Opus Dei thread, speculating that

Roberts has got to be a member. At least I got a good link to an article that was in Catalyst and was written by someone at Opus Dei.

http://www.catholicleague.org/research/opusdei_factandfiction.htm

Here's a quote:

"While we're at it, we can confirm that the Pope's spokesman, Joaquin Navarro-Valls, is a member, but we would like to dispel once and for all the rumors that Louis Freeh, Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, and Mel Gibson are members." 

Of course some people won't believe that clear statement from Opus Dei -- it's more fun believing rumour and innuendo.

:crazy:


I want to know: does anyone here know anyone who belongs to Opus Dei?

[CBHagman]

17. I've met a few.

More than 10 years ago I worked at a Catholic retreat center run by a lay group. Among the many different organizations who made retreats there was Opus Dei. I maintained strictly a professional relationship with them (i.e., I didn't get friendly with any of the members), and they never sought to encourage me to join.

I also attended a parish in which members of Opus Dei were apparently quite active, but I never really saw proof of that. It was a rather conservative parish, but that's all I could determine.

Frankly, despite the fact that I was brought up Catholic, I never even heard of Opus Dei until I was in my 20s, and then it was only because a friend had a friend in Mexico who became involved with them.

Then again, I never knew anything about the Third Order Franciscans until I was in my 20s. The old joke says that even God doesn't know how many orders of nuns there are. Well, the same might be said of the different lay groups within the church. VERY confusing.

[Matilda]

18. I don't know who they are, but they're out there.

Our previous parish priest was very progressive and his masses
were very laid back and informal. He was continually being called
up before the Archbishop (first Clancy, then Pell) and being ticked
off for not always going strictly by the book. I asked him once
how the Archbishop knew what he said and when, and he said "Opus
Dei." Apparently they go around the parishes, taking notes and
reporting anything they think is out of order.

Here we had a priest who was very popular, gave terrific sermons, related extremely well to young and old, and kept attendances high,
but he was brought down and transferred by Cardinal Pell to another
state because of little people who have nothing better to do than
go around spying on people. I think there's something seriously
wrong with that kind of negative mentality, and I would question what
relationship it bears to the teachings of Christ.

[CBHagman]

22. Oh, the Vinegar Piety Police!

What you're saying sounds quite believable to me, as I've heard something similar from other Catholics. Moreover, I hear that Opus Dei doesn't really answer to the local bishop, just their own clergy.

[4_Legs_Good]

23. Doh, that's awful!

Our parish is losing our pastor next year, and I'm terrifed as to his replacement. He's perfect for our congregation - progressive enough to be challenging, but conservative enough to keep the old timers coming. Of course I'd prefer someone far more progressive, but he's one of the better priests I've ever been associated with, and he's Mexican-American speaking flawless Spanish and English, which is necessary in our area.

Anyone farther to the right and it'll be a very serious blow to me (and to the community), but there aren't many like him anymore.

We shall see.

david

[Rich Hunt]

24. that's true

I attended a progressive church and school, but that wasn't good enough for some busybodies in the area who felt threatened by the church's politics. Yes, there were spies and rats and backstabbers.

Watch out when people with money, big mouths and no conscience decide they don't like you OR your church. It's political....some people fear the collective power of REAL Democrat Catholics, especially in urban areas. A lot of it has to do with economic differences.

[hedgehog]

20. I think we should encourage the rumor.

It'll drive right wing fundamentalists nuts trying to figure out if they should support Bush's choice if he might be getting his marching orders from Rome. (Oh, I'm going to burn for this one!)

[tjwmason]

21. You raise a fascinating point

A few months ago there was a documentary of British T.V. about the rise of the "Christian right" - it charted the beginning of the movement to J.F.K's candidacy, the evangelicals being scared of a Catholic president.

In recent years though there has been assiduous courting of conservative Catholics - yet on places like F.R. you still find loads of folks making comments like "Christians and Catholics" (as though we're not Christian) - and I assume that this is typical for American Evangelicals.

They see Catholics (or their idealised view of Catholics) as allies in "the culture wars", yet how would they feel about senior Catholic politicos taking advice from a Cardinal - even more a Pope.