To people ask why we stay in the Church despite

[hedgehog]

the official homophobia, unofficial support of the GOP, pedophile scandal etc, etc I offer this reply:

If the folk songs used at the first English language Masses weren't enough to drive us out, how could this other stuff?

(Does anyone else remember the song about raindrops on my window, Joy is like the rain c. 1968?)

[Beer Snob-50]

1. oh so true!!

i actually went to a church that used the music to "as tears go by" by the stones for the "Our Father".

It weren't bad for my college days but as I grow a little older..

[shrike]

2. I remember trees planted at masses

But seriously, I suppose since the church survived the Borgias it'll survive this crowd.

I guess the same logic could be used for those who revere and respect our founding fathers, such as Jefferson, despite the fact they were slave owners and (in certain cases) misgynists who also felt land and property should be a prerequisite to vote.

Yet I would never reject the beautiful ideals they espoused at this country's founding. And never has a country betrayed such ideals so completely -- but that's another post.

Life, and people, and churches, and governments, are so goddamn complex and people -- including liberals and progressives -- want things to be nice, neat and fit well in a package. It doesn't work that way.

[hedgehog]

5. Hey , I have to admit I like the idea of planting trees at Mass.

Maybe it's the latent Druid in me. On the other hand, I'm sure Saint Francis would have approved.

[shrike]

10. You've got a point

Better than playing "Heart of Gold" during communion, in my view. (Never saw that happen, but I have this mental picture ...)

[CBHagman]

3. Well, that wasn't very Christian of you, hedgehog!

:-)I had put "Joy Is Like the Rain" out of my head (sometime after leaving New Jersey in the '70s, I think), and now you brought it back. AIEE!!

And don't get me started on the folk group playing Neil Young's "Heart of Gold" during communion.

My father used to HATE the sung version of the Lord's Prayer that involved repeating "Hallowed be They name" all the way through the prayer.

I now go to a church where we stick to Glory & Praise, plus a lot of good stuff from Irish, British, Dutch, German, and French hymns and songs. When that fails, the schola takes over with Renaissance material. It's such a pleasure...and a relief.

[shrike]

4. We do Spanish hymns

At my church. They're lovely.

In New Orleans, I attended Our Lady of Guadalupe, which is primarily African-American. They had a small gospel choir singing the hymns and the refrains, and it was terrific.

[hedgehog]

6. Mea culpa

Let me say that while I make jokes about some of the stranger things that happened at Mass just after Vatican II, I have to applaud the brave pioneers who took the first steps towards shaking the cob webs out of the Church. There was a lot of goofiness, but the people involved were doing their best.

[CBHagman]

7. Oh, don't get me wrong.

I don't want to get back to, as my brother put it, watching a priest say his prayers. Thank God for John XXIII and Vatican II.

But the Psalms do specify that we're supposed to be SKILLFUL in praising the Lord, and it drives me nuts when Catholic churches A) are filled with people who never follow along with the hymns and responses, B) have music groups that turn everything into a dirge or a nursery rhyme, and C) neglect all the truly wonderful music, past and present, that so enhances the mass.

Okay, EVERYBODY SING! "Sons of God/Hear His holy Word/Gather round/The table of the Lord..."

Do you double-dog dare me to go on? :evilgrin:

[Matilda]

8. Do you sing "Yahweh is the God of our salvation"?

It drives me nuts.

Modernism is fine, but there's no excuse for bad taste!

[CBHagman]

9. Hear, hear.

"Modernism is fine, but there's no excuse for bad taste!"

[AngryOldDem]

12. Ultimate in bad taste

And I don't think anything that I will witness during my time left on this Earth will top this... The spring after Titanic came out (1999?), the music director at my former parish rewrote "more reverent" lyrics to "My Heart Will Go On," which was played at First Communion that year.

Now, typically I am pretty open-minded about such things, but even I was appalled. Needless to say, the song had a VERY short lifespan. Never heard it again after that weekend. Thanks be to God.

[CBHagman]

13. Do you know what scares me?

That someone has probably done something even worse. I mentioned the singing of Neil Young's "Heart of Gold" during communion at a mass I attended many years ago in South Carolina. There was also an unfortunate use of -- wait for it -- "We Are the World" during Holy Week. D'oh!

[hedgehog]

14. It has to be said that one person's bad taste is another's favorite song

Personally, I hate Let There be Peace on Earth both because of the sappy sentiment and the impossible high notes. Other people love it. I think any music is permissible except music that is exclusive. By that I mean music that is so good that families with small children are chided for interrupting the choir or poor singers are nudged to keep quiet. A local parish had a male Latin choir that did all the music at every Mass. They were quite put out when the new pastor explained that Mass was not supposed to be a demonstration of medieval music however well done!

[Matilda]

15. Years ago, when Phantom of the Opera had just opened in Sydney

the organist played The Music of the Night one Sunday during
Communion. It's a beautiful song, wonderful melody, but if you know
the words, not quite appropriate!

Let the dream begin, let your darker side give in
To the harmony which dreams alone can write
The power of the music of the night.

It was never repeated.

[CBHagman]

16. LOL, Matilda!

That's the best laugh I've had all day.

Considering we all renewed our baptismal vows yesterday at church (an infant was being baptized), including the renunciation of the devil, I'm laughing even harder.

That said, Andrew Lloyd Webber has written some sacred music, and I see no harm in using that. Some on this thread might feel otherwise, though.

[DemBones DemBones]

11. Hillaire Belloc may have been the first to suggest

that any organization that had survived so many centuries of scandals and corruption must have the backing of God.

Why would God bless such an organization? Because He knows that the scandals and corruption are a very small part of Catholic history. The sinners always get the most attention, in any age, but the saints are always there in greater numbers. (I include among the saints not just the obviously saintly, the Mother Teresas, but all those who try to live their faith.)

[UrbScotty]

17. "...the saints are always there in greater numbers."

Thank you for that thought.

[DemBones DemBones]

18. It's so easy to see only the evil around us,

in or out of the Church. According to something I read the other day, more than 99% of Catholic priests have never been accused of sexual improprieties. (I thought it was between 98-99%.) But whether it's 98% or 99%, those priests don't interest the media. They prefer to focus on the priests who have been accused. They should report crimes, of course, but it would be fair and balanced to compare the rate of abuse among priests to the rate among other clergy, or among men in general, because that shows that 1-2% of men are abusers, no matter where they work. This was rarely done during the pedophile priest mania. It would also introduce balance to report on some of the priests who have led good lives. The media does a good job of reporting that all Muslims are not terrorists, why can't they also report that all Catholic priests are not child abusers?