Circular Reasoning or why we need to pray for a miracle NOW!

[hedgehog]

I was listening today to the radio to a priest extolling the coming ban on gay seminarians. The gist of the argument was this, it's wrong because the Church says that Jesus said whatever the Church says goes, and the Church says homosexuality is wrong. By "Church" he meant the group of Vatican approved theologians who prepared the Catechism. But anyone who would have disagreed with Vatican conservatives was barred from making an input since they are obviously outside Church teachings, so the teachings ended up confirming the conservatives' point of view! In this specific example, any gay priest who doesn't feel guilt and anyone who suggests that gay priests are among those called to serve the Church disagree with "Church" teaching so they therefore are outside the "Church". (He went on to say that for those gay seminarians who have gone through careful discernment to determine their vocation are obviously wrong. I guess if you're gay the process of discernment is also inherently disordered!)

All I know is that these guys are talking through their hats repeating old prejudices. Just because they say homosexuality is disordered doesn't make it so. I refer you to Matthew's gospel which we'll be hearing in a week or two about those who lay burdens on others but will not lift a finger to help.

The way the Church is structured today, the only way this can change is if the bishops make it change. If we truly believe in the power of the Holy Spirit, it's time to pray for a miracle.

[Matilda]

1. "Church" teaching is such a fallible argument.

There is such a divide between the parts of the gospel preaching
love and tolerance towards all, and those that presume to lay down
the law. We really don't know for sure who said and who wrote
what, or when they did it. Much was added later - up to 400 years
later - and those are the bits I think that shore up the patriarchal
nature of the Church. We do well to take it all with a grain of
salt.

I have to admit that the same goes for the doctrine of papal
infallibility (a doctrine that was opposed by a majority of bishops
at the time, I believe). Give me a well-reasoned argument and I'll
listen and think about it, but to say "It's true because I say so,
and I'm infallible" is a very weak position from which to operate.
It leaves people with only two choices - knuckle under and stop
thinking, or walk out. Neither is desirable, and this may be why
ex cathedra statements are so rare.

The emerging position on gays does puzzle me - if we are all created
in the image of God, aren't gays a reflection of part of that image?
Who are we to question how and why God created people differently?

[hedgehog]

2. With regards to papal infallibility

"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Lord Acton

[elshiva]

3. SIGH! I pray that all religious people of all faiths

realize what a gift homosexuality and homosexuals are. Homophobia is a sin and it will not be covered up much longer by lies masked by "church teaching." Jesus did not say anything against homosexuals!

[hedgehog]

4. A very interesting insight!

Thank you!

[elshiva]

6. Thanks! Jesus did NOT say anything about homosexuals,

but to here some folks talk it's like that's all he ever talked about!

:hug: Here's praying that all homosexuals in the priesthood will be respected in future.

[AngryOldDem]

5. Indeed!

:hug: