This is getting bad for my blood pressure, but do you realize

[hedgehog]

that in the last 40 years, the bishops repeatedly kicked men out of the priesthood for wanting to get married while simultaneously protecting and promoting rapists!

My daughter asked me why I stay in the Church. To quote Peter, where else would I go? The question is, how do we take back the Church from this deteriorating cabal of old men?

[Matilda]

1. Not just the last forty years,

the Church has never really found the right way of dealing with human sexuality. And I have to say,
it is a very tough question.

There have been many scandals over the centuries, not least Alexander VI (Roderic Borgia), with his
mistresses and children, but the Church rationalises this by saying that their shortcomings are a
personal matter for them to work out with God, while their priestly/papal role is quite distinct, and
they can still be effective ministers of the Word. I find that concept very difficult to accept; I
think they must lead by example.

There's also the question of how many humans are really suited to celibacy - both physical and
mental, because someone can be physically celibate but play all sorts of games with other people as
a way of releasing sexual tension - physical abuse being one aspect. In Australia at least, many
Catholics have horror stories of physical punishment, especially boys who were routinely beaten
quite savagely by the brothers who were their teachers.

I think few of us are really suited to the celibate life, and that's probably part of the reason
for the decline in the numbers of priests and religous today, when there are so many other options.

But again, I also think it would be difficult for a married man to serve his community and his
family equally well - I wonder how many Protestant ministers are worn to a frazzle, and end up doing
neither job well? But at least they have the option of limiting their families - pity the poor
Catholic priest who would be forbidden to practise birth control and had a dozen children, while
simultaneously trying to be a good pastor - a tough call, I think.

The whole question of sexuality and marriage does need to be revised, but I sure don't know what
the answer is. But less hypocrisy would be a good start.

[hedgehog]

2. Hmmm... Do you really think that if we had married priests and/or

women priests, artificial birth control would be a sin?

[Matilda]

3. Isn't it an interesting question?

You're right, if the Church underwent such a major change as to allow married priests (male or female), I'm sure the birth control rules would also be reviewed.

But I think we still have a long wait ...

[hedgehog]

4. GIven that there is strong evidence that the birth control position is more about

sn attempt to maintain hierarchal control than about the actual morality involved, don't be surprised to see some abrupt changes. I don't think Benedict is anywhere near as admired as John Paul II and he is nowhere near as feared as some of the earlier 20th century popes. So many scandals are coming to light all at once; toleration and active protection of sexual predators, embezzlement of Church funds and collaboration with governments hostile to the Church that I don't see how the hierarchy can survive as an absolute oligarchy. Every one of these scandals goes back to Lord Acton's statement; "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." I think the scandal of an artificial priest shortage is the worst scandal of them all.
,

[Matilda]

5. I so agree with you about the control aspect.

I think it applies to a lot of church rules - they're more about shoring up the Church as an
institution than about promoting a Christian way of life.

Sometimes the intention may be good and it just comes out wrong, but sometimes, the Church is not
operating from a humane point of view, but more from an institutional one, and quite deliberately.
There are some very tough nuts in the Vatican hierarchy, and always have been.

[hedgehog]

6. The sad thing is that by seizing such strict control of the

institution, they are doing such incredible damage to it. Look at all the parishes being closed or combined because the bishops can find priests to serve as pastors. i know that lay people can handle most of the functions now reserved to priests, From what I've seen, they can probably do a better job! We still need people to preside at the Eucharist, and that's something a lay minister can't do.