Sobering look at the state of the Church right now:

[Brigid]

"Index of Leading Catholic Indicators" by Kenneth C. Jones. I found this slim volume while in the perpetual adoration chapel at my church this afternoon. It is mostly filled with statistics about the priest shortage, declining mass attendance, decline of religious orders in this country, and the like. Jones seems to blame Vatican II, but really offers no ideas for what to do about the situation. I am a recent convert, and have little knowledge about the pre-Vatican II Church. I cannot really tell if Jones is just grinding an axe or not. What do you think?

[hedgehog]

1. My daughter informs me that some of the numbers are cooked -

the Prue-Vatican II numbers for seminarians includes boys in high school and even some in junior high who were attending preparatory seminaries. I think they also included college undergrads. Today's numbers generally are for men who have an undergraduate degree and are in graduate studies before they are considered seminarians.

I'm always puzzled when people bring up other numbers such as fewer people going to personal confession, fewer women entering the convent, etc. What part of things had to change didn't these people get? Is the problem fewer people going to confession today, or was the problem too many people going to confession in the old days? Going to confession out of habit or worrying over trivial sins is not necessarily a good thing. I question why more parishes don't offer General confession, a rite which is as valid a form of the sacrament as personal confession. The question isn't are there fewer sisters today, but is the work of the Church getting done? Lay Catholics are active as never before. Let's face it, too many of the women who entered in the convent in the old days spent too much time in make-work activities. One sister I knew spent her novitiate starching collars and veils.

Father Andrew Greeley is a respected sociologist who gathered numbers showing the fall-off in Mass attendance following Humanae Vitae, not Vatican II. In other words, people left when the bureaucrats started tightening the screws again.

Finally, if you want to see where the Catholic Church would be today without Vatican II, check out this site:

http://www.sspx.org/

[Brigid]

2. I've heard of Father Andrew Greeley.

I even met him once, years ago. Thanks for the perspective. With the debate going on in the Church between liberals and conservatives, it's hard for a newbie to know what do think.

[hedgehog]

3. It's a tough time for all of us. I've had my parish shut down from underneath me,

and that's something that's happening all over. There is a group which believes in having a smaller, purer Church, and I'm afraid they're holding all the deeds.

[Brigid]

4. My parish is one of the largest in town.

And it's also one of the most active. I doubt it will close down. But these is a severe priest shortage. In my deanery there are at least 2 parishes without priests, and mine shares its pastor with another parish. It is expected that in a few years there will be only 5 active priests for the whole deanery. The picture isn't pretty. :(

Sometimes I do get the feeling that some think I am not a good Catholic because I didn't have my brain removed and sent to Rome when I went through RCIA. But I'm not going to let them drive me out.

So you had to find another parish to attend? Did most of the other parishoners go with you, or sort of scatter to several different parshises?

[hedgehog]

5. We mostly scattered. It's very sad. A very active parish, the

largest in this county, was closed in favor of a a very conservative parish with a terrible physical plant. So far, over $500,000 has been spent trying to bring that physical plant up to snuff, and just about every penny was wasted. For example, the pews have been too cramped for over 100 years. Part of the rehab was to take all the pews out, refinish them and adjust them. Now, you can kneel in the pews, just not sit or stand! I was a member of the Parish council, and we knew what would happen to our community if our parish was closed, and we knew how defective the physical plant at the other parish was. We've seen every prediction we made come true, but that is cold comfort indeed!

On edit - Immaculate Conception had only about 75% of the seating capacity of Holy Family/St.Michael's. We joked that if the bishop closed Holy Family/St.Michael's in favor of Immaculate Conception, seating capacity wouldn't be a problem because so many people would leave. Turns out it wasn't a joke.

[Brigid]

6. Sounds like somebody must have had some pull.

It makes no sense to close a larger parish in favor of a smaller one. God, I hope nothing like that happens here. x(

[hedgehog]

7. Nothing that happened here made any sense from any rational point

of view. If the goal was to winnow out anyone who would ever object to the actions of the bishops and priests, then the goal was achieved.

[Brigid]

8. I'm lucky.

Even if a parish does close here (and I have heard nothing about any such thing), all of the churches around here have good physical plants. It would be sad, but at least there is room at other parishes so that people won't feel like they're being driven away.

[Matilda]

9. Would the size of the block of land have anything to do with it?

If the Church could get more money for selling your church rather than the other one, that might have overridden
any other consideration.

[hedgehog]

12. There was an offer on the table for the parcel the Church kept;

meanwhile the parcel that was closed is on the market at about a quarter of its replacement cost.

[Matilda]

10. I occasionally read articles on that site, just to see what they're about.

I can only take so much at one time, though.

One edifying article is their defence of the Inquisition - not an apology, but a defence. It is possible to follow
their rather tortuous reasoning, but how any humane person could defend it completely baffles me.

http://www.sspx.org/against_sound_bites/defense_of_the_inquisition.htm


Their approval of what they say constitutes "light torture" would do credit to Dick Cheney.

[hedgehog]

11. It's scary, because these people literally believe that what they are saying is what the

Church should be about. They're mad as hornets because we're not exactly like them. Take a look at what they have to say about Jews and other non-Catholics if you really want to curl your hair!

[Matilda]

13. I'll take a look when I feel strong!

Their whole take on torture and burning at the stake is that it doesn't matter what happens to the body, because
it's the soul that's important. By that kind of reasoning, any horror can be justified.

I wonder how they feel about Islamic extremists and suicide bombers? Because by the same standards, they are also
justified, but somehow I think they may view that differently.