Sigh

[JohnKleeb]

Just sigh, Can I hang here tonight guys, the lounge aint too safe.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

1. Well...unfortunately, the pope has made some really bad decisions of late.

He has made decisions that have threatened the lives of people simply for being who they are. Now the pope started out very progressive. It's just been the last decade that it seems things have gone badly. I think his mind is not in the right state anymore.

I know the world would be better without the anti-Catholic statement, but unfornuately, the pope has made a lot of people angry by basically telling them they were going to hell for being who they are. Just like I wouldn't like it if someone were being praised who said Catholics were all going to hell, I understand some people being upset about this.

I wish the pope peace. But then, I don't wish anyone pain and suffering in death, not even Reagan. However, I think that thread in the Lounge was asking for trouble. Just my humble opinion.

[JohnKleeb]

2. Yes it was

But you know that some of the people defending the pope are people who have been told that kinda stuff.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

5. Yes, I completely understand.

But we don't need to sink to their level. As you said in another thread, Kleeb. Part of being a liberal Catholic is respecting other people's views. I think that particularly in light of the recent affirmation on condom use, people are really touchy still. This is sort of...waving a red flag.

[happynewyear]

3. we don't need to read this kind of crap here now

[SemiCharmedQuark]

4. Crap? I'm not going to defend the actions of someone I don't agree with

because he is the pope. I have a brain and I'm going to use it. I don't wish him bad. I wish him peace. But I don't agree with the decisions he has made lately and I am not going to get upset when those directly affected by those decisions get angry that he is being venerated.

Being a Catholic doesn't mean I have to agree with every piece of Catholic history 100%. That's what automatons do. Im human. God gave me free will and I intend to use it.

[demosincebirth]

6. For being a Catholic, you sound pretty angry at the church and our Holy

Father. I don't agree 100%, either, with the teachings of the Church on certain issues, but he is the Pope and the Vicar of Christ on earth.

edit: those kind of remarks are one of the reasons I try to stay out of the other forums. My mother once told me "if you can't defend your Catholic faith, you shouldn't be catholic."

[SemiCharmedQuark]

7. Jesus disagreed with the Pharisees and the Sadduccees,but still considered

himself a good Jew.

Don't bother with the "you're not good enough to be a Catholic". That's absolutely ridiculous. I was an altar server for 6 years and then a Eucharistic minister. I volunteered at 2 different soup kitchens. I don't need anyone but God judging me, thanks.

And when I stand before God, at my judgement, and He asks me why I believed this or that, I want a better answer than "because the pope told me to".

And what makes me sound angry? That I disagree with some of the things the pope said? That makes me human. Or is it that I am not going to get angry at other people who are hurt at some of the things the pope has said? That makes me empathetic.

[JohnKleeb]

8. Youre not angry at all, youre just more vocal about your disagreements

[Maeve]

9. Peace.,people

Quark, I tend to agree with you--John Paul has gotten more conservative in his pronouncments and there is much I must respectfully disagree with, too. And in some cases, I AM angry at what I see happening in the Church.

Let's stick with what James Joyce said about the Church, tho--"Here comes everybody."

[meow2u3]

12. Did you know that Opus Dei wormed its way in the Vatican?

I think the Holy Father's spokesman, Joaquin Navarro-Valls, an Opus Dei member, is putting words in the Pope's mouth. Mr. Navarro-Valls is the guy who prepares the Pope's speeches, thus giving the impression that His Holiness has become more radically conservative.

Methinks the Opus Dei gang has been taking advantage of a man who's sick and possibly near death. Unconscionable and diabolical if you ask me.

[AngryOldDem]

14. Navarro-Valls is a member

and I belive Opus Dei's founder, Escriva, is on track for sainthood.

[JNelson6563]

10. While I am not a member

of this group or of the Catholic faith anymore (now am agnostic-leaning-atheist) I wanted to let you know my heart is with you. I see the anti-Catholic sentiment almost everywhere and it is very sad to witness. I am also saddened by the coming end of this Pope. I happen to believe this more consevative version of the last decade or so is a result of him being weak and sick. I think others are more or less calling the shots and have been for a while.

I just wanted to share these sentiments with you all, you have my sympathy and encouragement.

Cheers-
Julie

[SOteric]

13. Thanks.

It's encouraging you take the time to share your thoughts on this with us.

[Midlodemocrat]

11. I, too, am sick of the Catholic bashing

Catholic charities has done more for people worldwide than most any other organization. While I don't always agree with things the Church has stated, I believe that those decisions are man made and not necessarily what Jesus would have done.

I would never think to bash someone's religion. They have a right to their opinion, just as I have a right to mine. The hatred that was spewed on that thread is very discouraging. If we, as democrats, can't seem to recognize and respect each other, how can we expect the repugs to do so?

[JohnKleeb]

15. Yeah I know

[FarLeftRage]

16. This is my little retreat for now

At least until things quiet down.

I understand how you feel John...

[JohnKleeb]

17. Its bad enough being a minority where you live sigh