Tell me about complete renovation.

[displacedtexan]

I'm selling an apartment building in Illinois, which I've owned for a decade... and buying in Baltimore, where I live now. The money I'm getting for my fully-rented, up-to-code IL building will just about pay for a commercial shell in a fabulous Baltimore neighborhood (Fells Point).

We're talking brick, 3 story w/basement building (approx. 14' X 85') with retail space on the ground floor.

BTW, I learned a lot from the posts on retrofitting air conditioning. (Baltimore weather makes heat pumps a viable choice.)

Any advice and/or shared wisdom concerning the complete renovation (wiring, plumbing, roof materials, heating & air conditioning) is greatly appreciated!

[NMDemDist2]

1. don't live there while you remodel

LOL

it's a mess, it's a total mess for weeks, months even years depending on the work being done

expect it to take 10% longer and be 20% more expensive than you planned

sounds like a great project tho, we want pics!

[Stinky The Clown]

2. Are you in Baltimore now or about to move there?

How familiar are you with the City and with Fells Point in particular?

[displacedtexan]

5. I'm in Baltimore now.

I'm on Antiques Row (Western edge of Mount Vernon neighborhood).

Fells Point commercial real estate value will never go down: millions of tourists each year have already discovered its charm.

Homes, however, will probably suffer when and if the bubble bursts. There are already signs: folks who mortgaged their souls for ARMs are either hiking rents to outrageous levels (trying to meet rising monthly payments) , or they're trying to sell. There's a glut of sky high-priced townhouses (12 to 14 feet wide!) for sale all over Baltimore right now.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. Okay, since you're here already .......

I was going to suggest you get familiar with the sense and sensibilities of the area (Fells Point, not all of Baltimore). But I suspect you already know all that. :)

We tried to buy in that area and got shut out of nine offers we made. Each time we offered at or above asking and got outbid. That market (and Canton) are just plain insane. We wound up buying in South Baltimore, about 4 blocks south of Fort Ave, just west of Hanover. The area is juuuuust outside the ..... uh .... "greater Federal Hill" area, but in the year we've owned it, the tide has risen sharply. We've probably made just a bit less than $100K and have done not one damn thing to the house. Just in our (8 rowhouse) block there have been two total guts and two renos, so the "good neighborhood" is essentially down to where we are. That's a good thing. These property values won't crash. They may drop a bit, but they won't crash. What's gunna crash is the ARM mortgagees and the slumlords.

We're starting our reno next month (we hope). My son is living there and will be doing some of the work, but we want to get an electrician and plumber involved. Don't screw around with avoiding permits and such. Particularly in the gentrifying neighborhoods, they have what I call "code spotters" walking the alleys looking for bootleg work that may be happening. There are so many speculators, and some of them are just this side of pirates. I'm glad the city is doing this, not complaining. It keeps the playing field a lot more level.

Are you planning to hire the work out to a general contractor, or be involved in it yourself? And do you plan to live there or fit it out as a rental?

[displacedtexan]

7. I am so glad you replied to my post!

Do you know if there's a time limit on bringing a house/building up to code after you buy it?

That's the only thing that concerns me right now.

I plan to get all of the necessary permits and hire the plumbing, electric, roofing, and heating/cooling done... but I can do the rest: drywall; paint; floors.

We plan to live above and either rent the retail space or start a biz.

You're right about the ARMs. There are lots of houses on the market in Canton and Federal Hill, and I bet ARMs are to blame. At some point, the rent just won't cover the owners' expenses.

[Stinky The Clown]

8. Time limit to bring it up to code .....

I sure as hell wish there were ...... or if there is, that it be enforced.

Where we have the rowhouse, right behind us, across the alley, is the side of a rat trap that fronts on the side street. It is abandoned .... a public records search shows some absentee LLC owns it. We've complained and complained .... no movement. The plywood in the first floor windows is holding, so it isn't a crack house ... yet. In fact, I doubt it will become one. I hear rats are tougher than crack addicts. The ones I've seen are surely bigger!

Seriously, I don't know if there's a time limit. The only one of which I am certain is when you buy a property from the city at a subsidized rate, they want it done within 18 months.

Is your building truly a shell or just in need of a gut? Also, right on the square at the bottom of Broadway below the market buildings or further up towards Orleans St.?

[displacedtexan]

10. The block where Crabby Dick's is located.

In fact, I think the owners of Crabby Dick's own the vacant buildings. We have to take a flashlight when we tour the ones we're interested in this weekend.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. B'way and Fleet - Great Location!

[DancingBear]

3. Re-think the heat pump idea

Heat pumps (unless you go for models that take heat from the earth) are not a great choice. They are only viable for temps 36 degrees and higher. I live in northern VA, and I use a heat pump to heat the second floor (oil furnace heats the first floor). It is PERPETUALLY on the "aux. heat" (re: electric) setting.

I would never use one again (in this climate), and I curse the damn builder for talking me into it. He originally spec'd heat pumps for both floors, but I told him no way for the first floor.

Builders love them because they're (in some cases) half the costs of other systems, and the install part is quick and clean - and cheap.

[displacedtexan]

4. I had a heat pump in northern Michigan.

I loved it. Worked great!

Electricity is almost free, though, in Michigan and in Baltimore ($100 per month of constant use).

[Longhorn]

9. We had a heat pump and I hated it.

It always felt like cold air was coming out of the ceiling registers. And our electric bill was higher in the winter than the summer when we're running the AC! When the units died, we replaced each with propane gas since we already had a tank to heat the pool/spa. Our utility bills have gone down considerably!

[grasswire]

12. I recall........

....when Fells Point was authentically grubby and "undiscovered." Gentrification is a mixed blessing, IMO. Nothing better happen to Bertha's, by cracky. I remember a particular balmy evening there, and a nice stroll along dockside where the working boats tie up, all oil-smelling and earnest.

[Stinky The Clown]

13. Now its all sheeshee and perfumed, but that delightfully semi-seamy

underbelly is on the next block over ...... for now.

So 'Baltimore' is Fells Point ..... tats and piercings sitting next to Bruno Magli and Brooks Brothers, sharing a fine imported beer of high fame and limited availability. Moran's tugs still dock at the Recreation Pier, where the set for "Homicide, Life on the Streets" still sits there, looking for all the world like a real "pleece" station. Bertha's still doin' her mussels and they just get better and better as Bertha's gets bigger and bigger .... three rowhouses now, all in a row ... as it were. Lots of artsy theaters doing avant garde plays. John Waters-isms abound in the little shops and Broadway Market's gotten a paint job - all to the detriment of the butcher, baker, fish monger, and burger flipper, who've been replaced by fancy-schmancy 'tea sellers' and 'wine merchants'. Bond Street's cobblestones are now under a few inches of fresh asphalt. The oily workboats have been replaced by ostentatious private ships, flags all atwitter in the formerly diesel fumed Patapsco River breezes. But Domino Sugar's plant is still on the other side. Alas, though, the sign is dark, awaiting the wrecker's ball as the trucks with the new $1,000,000 one bedroom efficiency condos are parked on the side of Broening Highway, ready to begin their stately caravan across the city to the newly poured foundations where once rowhouse residents toiled for the day.

Where's a Hon when you need one?





Two summers ago ... not so good for tourists when hurricanes come to town ....

and Fells Point's real Mayor ... the (dis)Honorable John Waters ... ya gotta love this guy ... yanno?