Tub to shower conversion.....

[Lugnut]

We are replacing our 60" X 30" tub with a Sterling Vikrell 60" X 30" shower pan and are tiling the shower enclosure with 12" X 12" porcelain tile. We've been told that cement board backed by 6 mil plastic sheeting is the best choice for a base for the tile. We have both green board and cement board on hand as well as thinset and mastic for the installation but we're confused as to what are the best options for a lasting job. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

1. Definitely backer board. NO GREEN BOARD. Ever! (like wire hangers). In a wet area.

You will have to tape the seams with alkali resistant mesh tape (not drywall mesh). Use just enough to embed the mesh - don't leave any bumps that you will have to sand down with a rubbing stone (don't ask me how I know this). Use a good quality backer board screw - not drywall screws because they WILL rust through.

Use a good quality modified thinset that you have to mix by hand. Avoid mastics and pre-mixed thinsets as they are made with chemicals that need air to dry. These mastics can tend to re-mulsify when they get wet. Mastic or premixed thinset might be just OK for a shower application but, for my money, I prefer a product 100% percent suitable for wet or even submerged applications.

You will need a vapor barrier as you indicated in the OP. Plastic behind the backer board will suffice for a shower. I have used it in the several showers I have done. Food for thought: In lieu of plastic behind, I am planning on using a surface applied liquid membrane (like "red-guard" sold at Home Depot or Laticrete's "hydro-ban") on the shower I am working on right now. The reason is, I find that backer board tends to suck the moisture out of the thinset giving you less working time - a surface applied membrane will solve this problem. This can also be remedied by wetting the board before applying the thinset if you decide to go with plastic behind. The MAIN reason I plan on going with a surface applied is the research I have been doing suggests a surface applied gives you a "dry-er" shower in that all the moisture is contained in the shower and the shower drys to the inside. It drys faster between uses. Even though you are using an impervious product like porcelain, your grout will leak and subject your backer board to moisture (this also the reason green board is no good). Remember, there is no such thing as a water proof tile job.

[Stinky The Clown]

2. Good caulk

The post above has lots of good suggestions.

I would add caulk to the list. I like to caulk the bottom of the plastic to the top of the shower pan (on the tile ridge, not where it will be visible). If you have seams in the plastic, caulk them, too, to seal them.

I like to use roofing felt instead of plastic just because I find it easier to handle. I'm sure this is an outdated material, but I've done three showers in the last few years and have used that each time. Again, I caulk it to the base and then caulk each course as overlap the upper courses over the lower courses.

I prefer Hardi backer to generic cement board. Maybe I'm deluded, but the Hardi seems closer to "waterproof" (nothing really is) than the open grained cement board.

Be certain you use screws made for installing backer board in wet areas.

Work out your tile pattern before you start to install it. Keep your pattern centered and try to keep small cuts at the corners. Are you doing a stack or a bond pattern?

If your tile pattern has it, or if you can use a contrasting color, consider a stacking base tile where it joins the shower pan. It makes for a neater job and helps divert water away from your walls.

How high up the wall are you planning to tile? If to the ceiling, the procedure is different than if you plan to stop short of the ceiling.

[Lugnut]

3. No pattern on the tile.

It's going right up to the ceiling. The only variation to a solid white porcelain enclosure will be a listello strip of travertine and glass tile mosaic.

The other half is chickening out of a DIY for the wall. A friend of his has done tile installations and he's leaning toward calling in the expert. I'm beginning to agree with him. We can do the floor.

Thank you both for your input.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

4. I dono about 12 by 12's on the shower wall,or the floor.

Cement board as as yer backer board on the walls. The advice about the vapor barrier is good,the last shower pan I did ,I used the brush on sealant over the ply wood base or sub.before I floated in the pan or shower floor. The rubber base is also good although not always the best way to go.Grout lines can leak but if the grout is applied properly than that would be not so much of a big deal. I have done tare outs in tile in walk in showers fifty years old and found sub flooring and underlayment in very good condition. It is the drain area you must concentrate your efforts on. Around the drain is where you will find water damage or leakage if it is not properly installed.On walls ,it's around the valves.You find rotted studs and flooring Joyce's in tare outs when there has been little or no maintenance done over the years. That's the fault of the home owners.

If you know a tile setter ,and if you were to ask me most of them are about as flighty as roofers,you might get the tile setters opinion about your choice of tile.And,about the procedure for doing a shower pan.I would ask you this, if it were to leak ,where would the water go? In a basement, or a room in the house? A good how to book on setting tile or doing tile in showers and shower pans will give you all the information and equations ,or the numbers with all the various tile patterns. The illustrated pictures are also helpful. And it beats looking at a computer print out if you do not actually have a lot of experience. You can buy those books at places such as home depot or lowe's or any major bulders supply. They also have do it yourselfer work shops.
And as the saying goes, it is far better to know than it is to think that you know. Anywhooo,get the book ,thats right where all the good information is,and if your going to do it,you stand a much better chance of doing it right by the book. All the research there is, is in those books. Trust me on that. I used one myself when I started doing shower pans. There is some craft work in doing those. It helps to know concrete.

I am working on a project now tiling a kitchen hall way and bathroom. Just completed redoing a cement floor. I hate tile and dislike most tile setters and since my tile saw won't burn out so I guess I'm stuck with it! I don't really hate tile setters .however most of them are flighty like roofers are !And I don't really hate tile but right now I do though!

Good luck with your project!

I

[Hassin Bin Sober]

5. Are you tiling the floor of the shower or the floor of the room?

I was assuming you are using a pre-fab shower base for the shower..

Whether you do it yourself or hire it out, I would definitely do the research (you are off to a good start) so you make sure you do it right the first time. And I wouldn't trust a tile setter to know the right way. Like "WashState" says, there are some real hacks out there who still like to "do it like they have always done it". I'm in the mortgage business so I go in and out of new developments from time to time and I STILL see tile setters using green board in showers - green board was never any good and is currently out of code. I had a client buy a place with three baths - including two walk-in showers. Six months later BOTH walk-in showers were leaking. I would never buy a new construction place with a walk-in shower unless I watched them build it from start to finish.


For inspiration, information and horror stories from people who either did it the wrong way OR hired the wrong people you can go here:

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=1


It's probably one of the friendliest places on the internets. There is a lot of nice professionals willing to help out. I would browse a couple pages and look for similar projects posted and then sign up and post what you want to do.

[Lugnut]

6. We are using a shower pan.

We're tiling the floor of the room itself. Sorry I wasn't clear about that. Thank you for the link. I will check that out. :)

[Robb]

7. It may be too late to bring this up

...but remember a shower needs a bigger diameter drain than a tub. It's code in most places, for good reason: a shower pan won't hold as much as a tub in the event of a clog, so a 2-inch drain (vs. 1.5 inch) is good insurance.

[Lugnut]

8. I have a multi-talented b-i-l.

He's steamfitter/pipefitter as well as an electrical inspector. He has already made the electrical changes and additions we wanted and he's doing all the plumbing.

We're still on hold waiting for the bleeping shower pan. It's a month since we ordered the dang thing from the plumbing supply house. Nobody carries a lot of stock of the really important things anymore.