The Rapture: What is it? And am I the only one who

[elshiva]

thinks it is unbiblical?

[mourningdove92]

1. There are some verses in the New Testament that refer

to what many Christians refer to as the rapture.

In Matthew, Jesus speaks about the end times and said that 2 would be working in the field, one would be taken the other left. (I am paraphrasing here)

Also, Paul (I ThinK) spoke of the time that some would not die. They would suddenly join Jesus in the sky. Again I am paraphrasing.

I think calling this the Rapture is only about 20-30 years old. I was raised in a Southern Babtist church and never heard the expression. I was about 18 years old when I heard it for the first time.

[regnaD kciN]

2. It's a creation of 20th century fundamentalism...

...based on a misreading of a passage in 2 Thessalonians. The passage was meant to reassure the congregation there that those of them who had died prior to the Second Coming would still receive salvation. In this new interpretation, the imagery was taken literally, to claim that all true believers would be swept up off the earth and taken to the clouds to meet Jesus before "the tribulation."

While patently silly, it has a potent appeal to those who feel overwhelmed by an out-of-control world. For it not only teaches that becoming a Christian means that God will bring you to the "new creation" after this world, but that you can escape (a literal reading of) Revelation's predicted plagues and persecutions. No muss, no fuss: just take a trip to the clouds to meet Jesus while all those unbelievers suffer below! Boys and girls, can you say "escapism?" Sure you can!

As I said, it has a potent appeal. However absurd it may be, it was only upon the popularizing of "the rapture" in the books of Hal Lindsey that fundamentalism really started making strong inroads into American popular culture. I remember my first year in college, just out of an Episcopal boarding school, and being startled by all these fresh-out-of-high-school junior born-agains running around with their copies of "The Late Great Planet Earth," and speculating about how soon they would be "caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air." It didn't sound like any Christianity I had ever encountered before, but we all sure have encountered it since then...

[Left Is Write]

6. Excellent post.

I'm not sure the words "The Rapture" have ever been uttered in either of the churches I've been a member of in my life (I'm a lifelong ELCA Lutheran, 34 years at the church where I was baptized, confirmed and married, and 4.5 years with my current congregation).

The Rapture was certainly not a concept we were ever taught, nor is it being taught now within the ELCA.

[realisticphish]

7. I'm ELCA too, and my grandfather's an ELCA pastor

you should hear him rant about the "Left Behind" series :D

[mrgorth]

3. It's not much different than white supremacy, really

The message is: you're good. Everyone else...not so much.

[elshiva]

4. Rapture is Bull and I say that as a Christian

I know there are verses in Thessalonians about meeting on the clouds. In Paul's time, that's how they viewed cosmology. Heaven was up, Earth in was in the middle, below was Hell. We don't have to to believe that any more. They had no concept of outer space and the core of the Earth, but we do.

Science is in some ways a revelation from God luring us to greater truths about the nature of reality. That is why I believe more in process theology than fundamentalism. Why would God want us to take the Bible literally and ignore basic science? Why would God want us to be dumb, if he will always be smarter than us anyway?

[GOPBasher]

20. Good post.

I've always liked the quote by Galileo, "I do not believe that the same God who endowed us with intelligence has intended that we don't use it." That's really more of a paraphrase, but the point is good. :-)

[realisticphish]

8. LOL

"you're good. everyone else...not so much"

:rofl:

[RevCheesehead]

9. I saw a book in the 70's that was a take-off on the "I'm OK - you're OK"

Title: "I'm OK - You're not so hot." :evilgrin:

(how I wish I bought that book!)

[Princess Turandot]

5. Here's a webpage..

from a Catholic website.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp


The first paragraph says:

"The Rapture

Are you Pre, Mid, or Post? If you don’t know how to answer that question, you’re probably a Catholic. Most Fundamentalists and Evangelicals know that these words are shorthand for pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, and post-tribulation. The terms all refer to when the rapture is supposed to occur."

(It later goes on to say that the majority of Christians do not subscribe to a Fundamentalist view of the Rapture.)

In addition to the other references, the Rapture also has something to do with the Book of Revelations (Apocalypse.)

The page mentions Hal Lindsey's book.

I suggest a cup of coffee when reading it. My eyes glazed over after the first paragraph! I now at least know why that series of books on this is as long as it is.

For some reason, I thought there was a small number of people, like 150,000, who get raptured first. I didn't see a reference to that.

[RevCheesehead]

10. I've avoided this thread, because it's a long answer.

If you want some kind of history, google "Darbyism". Lots of info there. If you want to see how it relates to Christian Theology, then google "Parousia" (the return of Christ).

It's still prevalent today, mostly through the Dallas School of Theology, and in fundamentalist circles. Darbyist thought is found in the works of Hal Lindsay (The Late, Great Planet Earth).

Short answer: it's bullshit.

[DawgHouse]

13. Thanks for the tip

I googled both - very interesting reading!

[elshiva]

14. hahahaha!

:rofl:

Yeah, but I believe in the Parousia and all. There will be a reign of God, now that's all over the New Testament...

[RevCheesehead]

15. I actually believe the parousia has happened -

on the day of Pentecost. :)

One could also argue that the KOG is the here and now, but not yet fully realized. It's the incentive that keeps us going.

The whole Rapture/end-times stuff is laden with the real struggles in 1st century Jerusalem, and the collapse of the Roman empire. When you see Revelation in that light, it's really, really hard to see the Rapture as an event yet-to-be.

[elshiva]

16. Kingdom of God=Reign of God (just changed for feminist

reasons because God doesnot equal male king). Jesus said that the Reign of God is now, but not yet. We have so much to do, but he is always with us, so his reign is now.

[TreasonousBastard]

17. I like Wikipedia's concise...

description of parousia, and it goes with my thinking (seems like its yours, too)that parousia is really symbolic of the ascension of Christianity replacing the old religions.

It also mentions the serious problem everyone who's actually read the Bible notices with Jesus being quoted as saying his return will be "within your generation."

My reading of these "prophecies," including Revelation, has been that it was all aimed at the original seven churches, and should be read that way. Paul, in particular, was primarily obsessed with corruption in the early churches and drifting teachings by those who never actually knew Jesus. His writings were to straighten out the wayward ones, and praise the faithful, not to point to a coming Apocalypse ordained by the Divine. Any Apocalypse would be of our own making and the Divine would likely keep His nose out of it.

It doesn't seem that any of the Apostles were all that interested in an actual physical return. (So, why should we be?)

[RevCheesehead]

18. I'm uncomfortable with the word "replace."

I believe that Judaism is a crucial part of our history, and we would not exist without it. (any suggestions for a better word?)

Paul struggled with the parousia, as well. His later letters reflect his growing suspicions that the physical return of Christ would not happen in his lifetime. That must have been rather painful for him, and makes him even more sympathetic, IMO.

[TreasonousBastard]

19. Perhaps "evolution" would be better...

and it has an "interesting" subtext. :evilgrin:

Or, maybe, the assumption or assimilation of the other faiths.

At any rate, you're right that "replacement" isn't exactly correct.

As you know, back in those days that area was a crossroads and a melting pot of a wild variety of beliefs from all over. While Jesus was a Jew, and we see him as the fulfillment of the OT prophecies, it's obvious that he appealed to many others and his message was familiar to them in their own terms.

Jesus took the God of a small group of "chosen people" to the world at large.

Maybe "revolution" is the word?

[grumpy old fart]

11. You'd think after centuries of folks proclaiming the end that someone....

would get a clue. Funny, I can never get these endtimers to give me their soon to be "left behind" property, even by testamentary gift...go figger.

[Az_lefty]

12. I believe the term was coined by Darby in the 19th century

and propagated by Schofield in the Scofield Bible. It's suppose to refer to the "catching away" as mentioned by Paul and Jesus in the Last Days. The big debate concerning this is the timing. Pre-Trib or Post-Trib. The fundies are hoping for a Pre-Trib Rapture as in the "Left Behind" books, but from my reading of the Bible I just don't see that happening. It looks like the Church is going right through the big "T" with everyone else. Can you imagine what the Tribulation will be like with those whacked-out fundies? Sheesh...

[shawn703]

21. I once agreed with it, now I disagree

Because I realized that to have a Rapture, you'd have to have two Resurrections and Christ would have to return two more times.

[tanyev]

22. Excellent book on the topic:

The Rapture Exposed by Barbara Rossing, a Lutheran theologian.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0813391563/qid=1115344187/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-1299549-7758316?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[hvn_nbr_2]

23. My city's library just got it.

I think I'm the first person to check it out. Looking forward to reading at least some of it over the holiday weekend.