Why did Jesus have to be baptized?

[Rabrrrrrr]

As we come up to the baptism of Jesus Sunday (and by the way, happy epiphany everyone!), I find myuself wondering yet again, "Why did Jesus need to be baptized?"

If Jesus was God (or is God, depending, I suppose, on your viewpoint), then it would seem that of all people, Jesus would be the one that didn't need it.

Or did he not so much need it for himself, as he did simply to have the dove the voice of God appear claiming Jesus as God's own son - a dramatic, but not theological, necessity?

[RevCheesehead]

1. A blessed Epiphany, Rabrrrrrr!

And an excellent question, too. I have an answer, but will hold off until others get a chance to voice their opinions. :)

[Rabrrrrrr]

10. It's been SIX #@^#%^&#$*% months, Rev - chime in!

[RevCheesehead]

11. Rabrrrrrr for moderator!!

:toast: :patriot: :evilgrin:

[Critters2]

2. I guess it depends on what you see as the purpose of baptism

In my tradition, baptism doesn't wash away sin or move one toward salvation. For us, it's an affirmation of God's gracious gift of salvation--a sign of grace, not a means of grace, as we say. It's also a sign of entry into the community of the faithful, and into citizenship in the kingdom. I think of Jesus' baptism as his statement that this new kingdom has arrived and is receiving "citizens". I also simply think of it as Jesus' affirmation of John's work of reformation of the Jewish community. The gospel writers seem to intend it as a sign that a new thing is happening, and as a sign of the beginning of Jesus' ministry--hence its placement at the beginning of Epiphany season.

For me, the baptism of Jesus isn't difficult, unless you see it as a necessary removal of sin as a means of salvation. I don't, so, not a problem.

Critters, who'll have an interesting time trying to give some attention to both Epiphany and the Baptism in worship this Sunday!

[elshiva]

3. That's a good question.

Here's a couple of reasons why:
1. He was showing his humility (that's my usual answer. "This should be done to fulfill all righteousness," Jesus says to John.)

2. Jesus did not know that he was God's Son until then?

3. Historians say that Jesus was a follower of John the Baptist. John was really a great charismatic
prophet who attracted many disciples and DID baptize a lot of people. Again, theologians debate when Jesus knew his Divinity.

4. The Baptismal Epiphany (the actual vision part not the physical immersion) is the gospel writers
way of testifying to the Divinity of Christ. The historical Jesus very likely was baptized by John (see
no. 3), but the Epiphany vision is not a historical event. Not to say that it did not happen, but that
all religious experiences are not historical in a time and date way, think Emmaus.

It is a mystery... :shrug:

[AspenRose]

4. To set an example for the rest of us

Christ's life is supposed to be the model for us to follow. He taught by example.

Remember when He washed the feet of His disciples at the last supper? Surely HE didn't have to do that, but He did, to set the example for us to follow....that we, as His followers, would also be called to be servants.

I would also like to think that He wanted everyone to see who would be coming after him (the Holy Spirit, who descended upon Him like a dove at the baptism), so we would be encouraged.

[AspenRose]

5. Oh, and my husband's take on it is....

....He fulfulled a prophecy.

[FreedomAngel82]

6. Read Romans chapter six

[Sgent]

7. The Mikvah?

The submersion in a natural spring/lake has been around a long time before John the Baptist. The mikvah is where jews have gone for millenia for spirutual clensing, renewal, etc. Even in liberal congregations the mikvah plays an important part of ritual in today's Jewry -- especially for converts and returnee's.

The act of being submerged is also fairly common in Judaism. Orthdox Jewry holds that pre-menopausal women must use it monthly, as well as anyone who has been infected with a host of communicable diseases, converts, and a host of other reasons. In many ancient Jewish cultures a mikvah was the first thing constructed (if it the city wasn't near a river/lake), long before a shul.

So that may provide insight to the less spiritual question of why Jesus underwent a Baptism -- it was common and often expected of a Jewish man who was undergoing a re-emergence of their faith. The deeper Chrisitian related questions I'll leave to the experts.

[davidinalameda]

8. I don't think he HAD to be baptized

it's an example to the rest of us

[SPKrazy]

9. I Think It Was Because He Was

a follower of John The Baptist

I'm not sure he knew his divinity-I tend to think his followers knew he was as Marcus Borg puts it a "spirit person", but not that he was God.

I also think that his Baptism was symbolic, in that it serves as an example

It was an act of humility (as I think that God in Jesus knew he was special)

I think that in some way it was a coming out event for Jesus' high level of spiritual awareness.

Really a fascinating question though.

I'm waiting for Rev Cheeshead to answer

[RevCheesehead]

12. Matthew 3:15

"...for it is proper for us in this way to fulfill all righteousness."

[Rabrrrrrr]

13. Yeah, but that doesn't explain much -

What do you think that means?

[RevCheesehead]

14. It means he was a good Jew.

One of Matthew's themes is "fulfillment," in which it is shown how Jesus is the fulfillment of OT prophecy. Notice John's hesitation: "You should be baptizing me... I'm not worthy..."

Of course, some would argue that baptism was necessary in order to remove the stain of Original Sin from Jesus' human lineage... but that gets messy, especially if you're catholic and believe in Mary, Pure and without sin. And I'm radical enough to say I don't completely buy into the Atonement theory. But then again, I didn't write a Gospel.

:think:!!!

The Gospel according to the Cheese! :rofl:

[realisticphish]

15. Blessed

Are the Cheesemakers! :D

[RevCheesehead]

16. Well, it's certainly not meant to be taken literally....

I'm sure he meant all purveyors of Dairy products. :P :hi:

[realisticphish]

17. so, in a way

God was saying "Go Packers!"

:D :hi:

[RevCheesehead]

18. One day, Mike Ditka died and went to heaven....

(yeah, I know, just go with it, OK?)
God asked him if he'd like a tour, to meet his new neighbors. Ditka says "ya, OK." So he gets to see all the new homes in the area, and he gets to see his own home, a beautiful mansion. But then he sees the largest, most extravagent mansion of all, with a huge driveway, and Packers flags lining the drive.

Ditka goes crazy. "God, I don't get it. Lombardi was a great coach, but why is his house so much bigger than everyone else's?"

God smiles and says, "Mike, that's not Vince's house - that's mine."

Go, Packers! :bounce::bounce: