Am I the only one who's bothered by armed guards at a church?

[Critters2]

Honestly, I'd resign from my church if the board insisted on having armed guards. I think it buys into this culture of violence, rather confronting and challenging it.

But I've taken quite a beating in GD for this attitude.

How do you feel about armed guards at churches?

[supernova]

1. It's creepy to have guns at a church

Because they are traditionally places of sanctuary for everyone.

But I feel that way even about churches being locked in general when not in "official" use. I think they should be open.

[benEzra]

2. Uniformed security might be a bit wierd...

but I have no problem with discreetly armed volunteers or whatever. Synagogues have been doing this for a long time.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. As I said, I can understand why these megachurches with huge offerings might have them, I personally

wouldn't attend a church where there are guns.

[Rabrrrrrr]

4. Fuck that - I'm waiting for the pulpit-as-machine-gun-turret.

"The good news is, we have enough money for everything we want to do - the bad news is, it's still in your pockets - the good news is, I've got a M-50 up here with 75,000 rounds and a liquid nitrogen barrel coolant system. Now take the fucking offering."

[RevCheesehead]

5. Will you please come here and chair our finance committee?

:rofl:

[Critters2]

6. Have you read any Girard at all,

or have you just been trying to impress me (and to what end)? :)

[Rabrrrrrr]

8. Give any one a turret-based machine gun, and watch their theology change.

Even Girard.

"Look, Ma! I'm makin' scapegoats today! Shitloads of 'em!! How's that mimetic desire working for you now, cretin?"

[Critters2]

10. ROFLMAO!!!

Scapegoats! Shitloads of 'em!! :rofl:

[kwassa]

7. I'll run that concept by the stewardship committee

[TreasonousBastard]

9. Armed guards? Who's got armed guards? Doesn't that...

defeat the whole point of being a church?

My church fights the Lamb's War, with slightly different armaments. Admittedly, inner peace usually doesn't come out well against a streetsweeper, but we're in it for the long haul.

[Critters2]

11. That church where the gunmen was last week.

He was brought down by the church's armed security. But, I'm with you. I don't recall Jesus takin' Herod or Pilate out.

[TreasonousBastard]

12. Of course (dope slap self) that one...

I don't know if this is a trend, perhaps after the Amish church shooting but if it is, it's a sick one.

I'd say the Amish had the Christian response to the problem. The Mennonites are another Historic Peace Church, and their peace theology is often as profound as Quaker peace testimony.

Too bad the rest of them aren't listening much.

[Critters2]

13. Indeed. I have considered becoming Mennonite

on more than one occasion. My own church utterly refuses to take a clear stand on these issues. Which infuriates me!!

[supernova]

14. Probably the chief reason I left the Presby Church

I was in.

While the national church would make pronoucements about disagreeing with the war and being kicked out of Israel for trying to aid the Palestinians, my church wanted to have it both ways. And you really didn't talk about any of that social justice stuff in church. I left because I didn't want to keep my mouth shut anymore.

The maddening thing about Jesus is that I think he very much is a political figure as well as a spiritual one. If you try to pretend he's one or the other, you lose something.

[Critters2]

15. The UCC is good on issues of inclusivity and other forms of social justice,

but has completely walked away from issues of war and peace. This is disappointing to me because some of my ancestors came to this country to avoid conscription into the Franco-Prussian War. There was quite a bit of pacifism in the German Evangelical Synod, which was a precursor to the UCC. But we've forgotten that heritage.

[Kat45]

16. The minister at my (UCC) church attends peace rallies and

is involved in peace and social justice things. She touches upon these things in some sermons, but doesn't get heavily into it so as not to 'offend' some of the church members. I have noticed that a number of the people at the church either are not interested in those things or (in some cases) might be in favor of this administration.

I asked her if she was at the rally (when there was a big peace rally in the city) and she was glad I asked her about it and glad to know that I was interested in those issues. She even told me she is reluctant to bring these things up in front of the whole church body because some people would not like it. I think I should try to come up with some kind of project or group to suggest for those of us who want to get involved in peace activism; after all, there are activities for smaller groups within the church.

My former church was running out of money so we consolidated with a nearby church, and this is the minister at what is now our new church. The minister from our original church is still with us (for the next year, though I wish longer) and he often would talk about war and peace in his sermons, which he was able to do in ways that wouldn't 'offend' anyone--but even then, he'd be a bit nervous about how folks would take some of his sermons. Of course, I always made it a point to praise those sermons in particular. One day at Bible study he gave us a sheet with names of people who one could call modern day prophets: one name on the list was Dennis Kucinich, and it particularly mentioned his proposed "Department of Peace."

[supernova]

17. See that's the thing

I got tired of trying to please the conservo crowd by minimizing my needs and wants from a group. That's the first thing they tell you too, "it's not nice to talk about divisive subjects."

Or if you have a minister like that, they are able to squirrel it away in the sermon without anyone being the wiser.

[Critters2]

18. My problem, too. And why Anabaptism is attractive to me.

In the Mennnonite tradition, pacifism doesn't offend people, because it IS the church tradition. People who are offended wouldn't join because they wouldn't feel comfortable. And there is a pacifist tradition in the UCC, but we're so afraid of offending people that we don't talk about it. I get tired of this.

[murielm99]

21. The Church of the Brethren is also a peace church.

They are much like the Mennonites.

They always emphasized that the decision to be a pacifist was a personal decision. They did not judge anyone who decided that they had personal reasons for wanting to serve in a war or in the military in general.

They have always emphasized service, living simply, conserving resources and being good stewards of the earth.

In recent years, they have concentrated on becoming more of a community church, and they have deemphasized some of their traditional values. I think they lost quite a bit by doing that. My family left the church for that reason, and we now attend a United Methodist church. Those feelings are individual. I still the the Brethren have a lot to offer. I would never discourage anyone from joining that denomination.

[Critters2]

22. There are some Mennonites moving away from their peace witness

to grow larger churches, too. There's a group that used to be called The Evangelical Mennonite Church. Of the "Mennonites that dress like us", as my former Amish country parishioners used to say, the EMC was the most theologically conservative. But still pacifist.

Now, they've changed their name to the Fellowship of Evangelical Churches, and often don't mention their peace witness until after people have joined a congregation. I find it sad.

It's hard to be pacifist in this culture, but it's still worth it!

[TreasonousBastard]

19. Heh. Baptists and Assemblys of God were largely pacifist...

in the 1800's but something changed them. May have been that lingering effects of the Civil War politicized them.

One of these days I'd like to look further into the various evolving church attitudes toward social and peace issues.

[Critters2]

20. The German Evang. Synod largely moved away from pacifism

during WWI. Wanted to look like good, loyal Americans.