We need some help over in GD-P, re Uslter.

[Padraig18]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1596550#1597237

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

1. Paddy, methinks that particular flamefest is over.

BTW, Stella Artois still hasn't replied to me about the murder of Robert Hamill.

[Padraig18]

2. Yeah, I noticed she hadn't.

Why do people who know beans about Ulster always post so authoritatively on the subject?


:argh:

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

3. Maybe because their amadans..

I don't claim to be an authority on the Six Counties, but if I have a question, I'll ask Mr. Wonderful.

He was, after all, born and raised there.

[HEyHEY]

4. Northern Ireland has to be an independent nation

It's the only way

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

6. As an Irish American - I can only agree

[DaveinMD]

7. that is the worst idea

that would mean represion of the Catholic population without any repercussions.

[HEyHEY]

8. And a united Ireland would mean repression of protestants

[Maeve]

9. Why?

They aren't repressed in the Republic; why would they be in a united country?

[HEyHEY]

12. Then they'd be outnumbered.

[Maeve]

15. They are out-numbered in the Republic

It doesn't seem to have worked to their particular disadvantage.

In Northern Ireland, they have a higher percentage of the wealth, property and power, especially among the police force--while that might change to some extent, the laws of the Republic would be a better assurance of their civil rights than they have granted the Catholic minority.

[HEyHEY]

17. My question is why you don't seem to think

The North on it's own isn't capable of drafting a fair constitution?
They have to do this, the only way to relax both sides is to not hand either a clear victory by seemingly choosing one side over the other.


By the way...if you wanna read the worst paper on NI check it out.

http://www.malvik.vgs.no/engelsk/across-the_troubles.htm

[Maeve]

20. I never said it wasn't

But I do admit to favoring the oppressed over the oppressors--always have, even while growing up Protestant myself.

I really think that a major part of the problem is that there are too many dishonest brokers in the issue--too many agendas and too few objective observers. I have stated publically that on several occassions I'd like to grab both sides by the ears and knock their heads together until they saw sense.

on edit: as long as they come up with an agreement that balances minority rights and majority rule, fine. Talk to Ian Paisley about it and see how far you get.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

10. I'm curious as to why you say that.

Freedom of religion is guaranteed under the Irish constitution and there are Protestants that live in the Republic.

In fact, Jack Boothman was President of the Gaelic Athletic Association during 1994-1996 and he's a member of a Protestant denomination in Co. Wicklow.

[HEyHEY]

11. The reason Northern Protestants wanted to be separate

In the first place was fear of catholic repression. My quuestion to you guys is how come the Protestants would repress the Catholics, but the Catholics wouldn't repress the protestants?

If NI wants success it has to be independent and just on it's own will.

[mrgorth]

13. Look

I hate to sound so "pro-taig" but the bottom line is that protestants aren't repressed in the republic and, while it's better in the north now, catholics have, historically, been quite repressed there. I know this is hard for you to understand but the bottom line is that a united Ireland is simply the right thing to do.

[HEyHEY]

14. It's not hard for me to understnad at all

I just think it's a stupid idea

[Maeve]

16. Actually, it was more to retain Protestant ascendancy

The power is now and always has been in distinctly Protestant hands since Elizabeth I was on the throne.

[HEyHEY]

18. I agree - howver that falls under what I was saying

[Maeve]

21. No, you're speaking of a fear grounded in unreality

Most folks call that "delusional"; what the Catholics have endured is called "oppression" by any standards.

[HEyHEY]

22. Nope, I talking about two groups that hate each other

And if you decided that one of those two sides wins by getting 100 per cent of what they want...it's not gonna get any better.

[Maeve]

26. Only the fringes hate each other

And it's much more about economic power than about ancient feuds. If the Catholics had been given economic equity and basic civil rights (remember, when the Troubles started up in the '60's Catholics couldn't get permits to rally, and were asking for "one person, one vote"), the nationalist movement would have confined itself to the political arena where it belongs.

I have no idea where you get the concept that I argue for one group to "win by getting 100% of what they want". I believe the island will eventually be united, but that is because the current situation is untenable in the long run. Britain can't afford it and NI now has a lower standard of living than the Republic.

[DaveinMD]

19. untrue

it was to keep dominance over the falsely created entity. They aren't worried about equally. They believe in supremacy. The likes of Ian Paisley would fit in well among the KKK.

[HEyHEY]

23. Dominance yes, they didn't want to be dominated by the catholics

Making the statement that they felt "Oh, we must be our own country to keep repressing catholics." Is a bit overdramatic.

[DaveinMD]

24. Nope

Go back and look at the history of the troubles. At first, the nationalist community wasn't even talking about a unified Ireland. They were seeking equality in housing and employment. Then the pograms started to put Catholics back in their place. The RUC took part in these pograms. You need a history refresher.

[RogueTrooper]

25. Well, Rev Paisley is a graduate of Bob Jones

says it all really.

[Donkeyboy75]

5. As a good friend of mine living in Belfast said,

it's easy to be a patriot from 4000 miles away.