I grew up Christian but wondered...why Jews "rejected Jesus"

[DuaneBidoux]

Then I started a long spiritual quest, and instead of asking Christians why Jews rejected Jesus, I asked Jews why (what a concept!).

The long and short of it is that I spent years reading about religion, spirituality, paganism and Judaism.

Well the big news is this: for the first time in ten years I stepped inside of a Christian church for a service. It was a Catholic wedding. And I absolutely couldn't believe how it felt: everywhere I looked, everything I heard, all I watched: and I saw Paganism literally dripping out of the walls.

What a difference a lifetime of learning has made for my ability to empathize with the Jews. These must be scary times, even in the states, as the "pagans" grab the reigns of power everywhere.

Does it bother anyone when they hear the term "Judeo-Christian Tradition" (like you are being dragged along for the ride without your permission is what I would imagine it feels like).

[Colorado Blue]

1. It is interesting to hear your observations. A great deal

of Christianity does indeed stem from the Pagan religions. I've always been attracted to them simply for their beauty, their imagery, and also for the closeness I feel for nature.

But it is a departure from Judaism, all right! Sacreligious, some might say, if you look at the Commandments! I especially notice it in the Greek Orthodox ceremonies but also of course Roman Catholic.

Also, my nieces study Wicca:)

And yes, sometimes one has a sense of cognitive dissonance with the term "Judeo-Christian" although it has less to do with the essense of Jesus' words - his philosophy was beautiful - than with the PRACTICE of organized Christianity. Which, let's face it, hasn't been all that kind to the "Judeo" part - especially once Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire.

And as for asking our permission - forgetaboutit:)

Yes, it's scary lately. I hate to say it but you're right, even here at home.

Thank you for your perceptions. I hope some of the other folks will have some thoughts to share with you.

[Sgent]

2. About 90%

of what Jesus actually SAID is compatiable with normative Judaism. Its what his followers have done which irks me.

As for the term Judaeo-Christian, I hate it. With very, very few exceptions it applies to Christians, and most would be shocked to learn that their thoughts are not in line with normative Judaism (Orthodox).

[Coastie for Truth]

5. What started out as Chamber Music and Political Activism at the local

"UU" (Unitarian-Universalist Association) community has actually turned into some serious reading and studying.<1>

First, start with President Thomas Jefferson's Bible (the New Testament stripped of science fiction and blind faith).

Take away the "Religion About Jesus" - reducing Christianity to its Christic core - take away Original Sin, Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Virgin Birth, Raising of Lazarus, Physical Resurrection of the Dead, Transubstantiation, Trinitarianism, etc.

Second, accept that revelation is on-going - from Buddha, to Moses to Jesus to Mohammed, to Guru Nanuk, to Joseph Smith, including St. Francis and the Bal Shem Tov, and a lot of others in between -- all equally valid.

What are left you with - a normative core that is compatible with Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Sikh. It's called Unitarian-Universalism.

<1> - We are "Friends of Unitarianism" and members of one Reform Temple, and more regular attenders at Michael Lerner's Beyt Tikkun in Berkeley CA.

[ikojo]

3. Duane, as I understand there are a couple things

the Moshiach is supposed to do in order to be recognized as such....

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/general-messiah-criteria.html

He must be Jewish
He must be from the tribe of Judah
He must return Jews to the land of Israel
He will rule at a time of worldwide peace
He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem

[IndianaGreen]

4. Two reasons: The Oneness of G_d, and the ban on human sacrifices

Other reasons are historical: there was never any claim that the Messiah would be divine. The title "Son of G_od" was one of the honorary titles bestowed on the kings of Israel. It never meant that the king, or anyone that would sit on the king's throne, would be divine.

As to your question, why did the Jews reject Jesus? We never did! The Jewish patriot that became known as Jesus of Nazareth, who was executed by the Romans, is a son of Israel as many other patriots murdered by Rome. The claims of Jesus's divinity, and the entire theology that came out of that, did not come from the Jesus's family or followers in occupied Judea, but from Hellenized Jews and converted pagans that had a penchant of following the Roman practice of making gods of their heroes. The Roman god Apollo became the divine Jesus.

[porphyrian]

6. "Does it bother anyone when they hear the term "Judeo-Christian..."

My wife bristles every time. As a Reform Jew who was raised in the South, she's a bit shell-shocked by anything Christian, and doesn't appreciate being grouped with them in most circumstances.

[rockymountaindem]

7. That term bothers me sometimes.

Jewish ethics and progressive Christian ethics have a lot in common. My good friend is a fairly conservative guy and a devout Christian. He has a lot of respect for other religions and is a very ethical person. I would be proud to say "Judeo-Christian" in conjunction with him.

When people like Dobson say it, though, I hate the idea of Focus speaking for me.

[Taverner]

8. Well, someone should point out that Romans killed all the Christian Jews

Christianity was very much alive in Jerusalem after the death of Christ, as it was in all of the gentile regions.

Unfortunately the Jewish Christians were mostly killed when Rome did their little Shock and Awe on the city (streets running with blood, etc.) Hillel Judaism survived because it's founder escaped Jerusalem, not so for Christian Judaism. As a result, Christianity became a Gentile religion.

[Ian David]

9. Actually, many Jewish traditions derive from Paganism, too

As someone once put it, "If it involves an egg or a tree, you can be pretty sure it comes from a Pagan tradition."

For example, just take a look at some of the Passover traditions.

There's a whole book on the Pagan heritage of Passover, but after a quick look, I can't find it. All I'm coming up with on Google are some anti-semitic references.

Also, think about the holiday of Sukkot. Camping outside in a hut with no roof, so you can see the stars. And then you take a palm frond and an inedible yellow fruit and you shake them a bunch of times toward the four points of the compass.

I don't think there is a single "pure" religion anywhere that doesn't borrow something from someplace else.

Even Scientology borrows its mythology straight from the pages of Amazing Stories and the pulp Sci-fi of the forties and fifties.

[onager]

10. Origin of "Judeo-Christian..."

Late as usual. Sorry!

I've read that (at least in the U.S.) the term "Judeo-Christian" didn't become popular until after WWII.

Also, that the change from "Christian heritage" to "Judeo-Christian heritage" was encouraged by the shame and embarassment of the U.S. government over the Holocaust and its non-response to it during the war.

(e.g., the attempt to settle a few hundred Jewish refugee children in America. The U.S. Congress actually passed a resolution saying it was "against the will of God to separate children from their parents." !!! The much smaller and poorer Britain took in thousands, and saved them from certain death. CHILDREN, dammit! Argh...sorry.)

Once I came across some letters written by "average Americans" to FDR during WWII. The letters are in the National Archives.

The anti-Semitic hatred in those letters was just jaw-dropping. Usually some variant of "They're getting what they deserve," with all the usual epithets and slurs.

Look, I'm an atheist. But whenever a majority looks for a scapegoat, I know who that scapegoat has been for most of the past 2000 years. And I also know that the non-religious tend to get it in the neck right along with the religious minorities.

Therefore, you'll find me on your side, whether you're happy to have me there or not.

:hi: