NYT select article - anyone subscribe?

[mzteris]

I'd like to read this . . . it looks like it's pretty interesting.

Why Aren’t We Shocked?
By BOB HERBERT
Published: October 16, 2006

We have become so accustomed to living in a society saturated with misogyny that violence against females is more or less to be expected.

To continue reading this article, you must be a subscriber to TimesSelect.

[lukasahero]

1. I snagged it. I'll PM you

The 4 paragraph rule prevents me from posting it here.

Having now read it, I'm feeling rather ill.

[ThomCat]

2. Would you mind PMing a copy to me also?

Thank you. :)

[lukasahero]

3. Of course!

You'll have it shortly.

Open invitation to anyone who wants a copy, let me know. :)

[VelmaD]

6. Could you send it to me...

please? :)

[lukasahero]

8. Check your mail in a few.

:)

[melnjones]

10. Could you PM me as well? nt

[lukasahero]

11. Of course. :)

[ThomCat]

4. There are some very good, scary points in this editorial.

They won't surprise anyone here. But it's great to see it finally mentioned in the New York Times.

I'm hoping this gets mentioned again, and again, and again until people finally take it seriously. Women are being routinely de-humanized in our society. And until we deal with this we aren't going to be able to deal with other forms of prejudice either.

[mzteris]

5. I agree.

It's a scary read, but a must-read, I think.

Though in here we're just preaching to the choir. . . it's the greater world that needs to internalize this.

[lukasahero]

12. Yeah. And that fact that it's behind the subscription service

means less people will have the opportunity to read it. You can't even really post it here because so few people will be able to read it. :(

[MuseRider]

7. Please?

I would like this too if you don't mind.

[lukasahero]

9. Coming right up.

:)

[lukasahero]

13. 4 selected paragraphs

We can't post the whole thing but I figure we can at least discuss some of it. Here's some of the text I found most interesting: (but damn, it's hard to pick just 4)

"In the recent shootings at an Amish schoolhouse in rural Pennsylvania and a large public high school in Colorado, the killers went out of their way to separate the girls from the boys, and then deliberately attacked only the girls.

...

In the widespread coverage that followed these crimes, very little was made of the fact that only girls were targeted. Imagine if a gunman had gone into a school, separated the kids up on the basis of race or religion, and then shot only the black kids. Or only the white kids. Or only the Jews.

...

We have a problem. Staggering amounts of violence are unleashed on women every day, and there is no escaping the fact that in the most sensational stories, large segments of the population are titillated by that violence. We’ve been watching the sexualized image of the murdered 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey for 10 years. JonBenet is dead. Her mother is dead. And we’re still watching the video of this poor child prancing in lipstick and high heels.

What have we learned since then? That there’s big money to be made from thongs, spandex tops and sexy makeovers for little girls. In a misogynistic culture, it’s never too early to drill into the minds of girls that what really matters is their appearance and their ability to please men sexually."

Everyone here should read the rest of it. It is a striking indictment of what is "accepted" in our culture and how what some find funny and insignificant contributes greatly to the perpetuation of the violence against women. One more line from the artilce says it best: "None of that occurred because these were just girls" (Emphasis mine, insight, Mr. Herbert's.)

[cally]

14. Could I get a copy, also?

Thanks for sharing the four paragraphs above.

[lukasahero]

15. Coming right up. :)

[cally]

17. Thanks...I just wish more people would recognize the

toxic culture we live in. It's a good editorial.

[MuseRider]

16. Thank you lukasahero.

I am amazed that anyone ever wrote this in this country in this day when we have lost so much of what we had gained. Good article, I really appreciate you sending it and Mr.Herbert for writing it.

[ThomCat]

18. I just had a brief discussion with our office manager.

She asked what I was reading (skimming some stuff here) and I told her it was stuff about the war against women. I showed her this thread.

Even as a guy I think I've seen the hostility towards women increase over the past decade. I think the discrimination is getting worse, and the knee-jerk stereotyping as as bad as I've ever seen it.

Am I just noticing it more, or is it really getting worse?

[ismnotwasm]

20. Really worse

Not the least because of the ones who try to pretend otherwise. It's very scary. I rarely start threads outside of here, but I think of posting a simple poll sometimes(I believe it's been done before)Something to the effect of Do you know of anyone who has been a victim of sexual violence, child, woman or man, some or all of the above.

Just the one qualifier--sexual violence. Want to bet it would be a big 'ol flame fest? So I don't do it. If the question was "Do you know a woman who has been a victim of violence" It would be even worse. Ugh.

[ThomCat]

21. I think you are right. It would turn into a war and get locked

as "Flamebait" even though it would be a very interesting poll to see.

[Control-Z]

24. I've given thought to doing similar

First, defining violence.

I believe that if violence is defined to include the casual abuses that society accepts - the emotional hate crimes, the mental manipulations that woman suffer on a daily basis - we would find that most women, at some time, have been victims.

Every time a man insults a woman it is abuse. When a guy tells his gf/spouse that another woman looks hot, (unless it is followed by "you look hotter") that is abuse. When he calls her fat or insults her intelligence - abuse. All means to demeaning and controlling.

Constructive criticism doesn't break hearts or dehumanize. Insults do and are a non physical violence that we, as a society, seem to accept.

Once defined, I'd like to see how many women feel they have been victims.

[bloom]

25. I think it's part of the right wing campaign

brainwashing people to go along with the patriarchal, anti-women, pro-authoritarian mindset.

Misogyny is not the whole thing - but it is part of the thing.


The anti-feminism campaigns are obvious (along with the Orwellian fake feminism groups) - but that doesn't begin to cover it.

[ismnotwasm]

19. If you would be so kind

I would like a copy as well.

[lukasahero]

22. Check your inbox

:)

[ismnotwasm]

26. Thank you

And WOW.

[bloom]

23. The article is posted in it's entirety at the Reclusive Leftist:

http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=418

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=229x4937