Digital 'retouching', celebrity, and women's self-image

[StellaBlue]

Take a look at this site

http://glennferon.com/portfolio1/index.html

It's unbelievable, and even slightly shocking to me. And I'm a cynic.

Personally, I would rather see women who look real and normal in magazines, as they make me feel both positive AND motivated. I mean, does someone like Beyonce really *need* 'retouching'? Wasn't she born beautiful enough the first time? And, why is cellulite NEVER seen? According to ABC news, 90% of women have cellulite(http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Health/story?id=1009707&page=1), and it seems to 'afflict' fat and thin women equally, that is, almost across the board. And yet, like menstruation, is a reality of female life that you rarely, rarely see - outside of crass jokes - in the media. Like menstruation, we tend to grow being embarrassed and ashamed of this reality.

I remember an experiment done by a magazine in the UK a few years ago, in which they published two covers in the same month: one with Pamela Anderson, and one with the then-chubby Sophie Dahl. The link below is the best one I could find through Google, but as I recall, the magazine found that they sold MORE copies of the issue with Ms. Dahl. Perhaps this is because her face is much, much more beautiful (IMHO) than Pammie's, though... ?

http://www.uexpress.com/maggiegallagher/?uc_full_date=20000522

Anyway, have a look at the airbrushing site - it's amazing, both from a technical, artistic point of few, and from a social commentary point of view. These are all black women, but, to me, the airbrushing of all women that occurs in today's media creates a similar social effect as airbrushing all black women "whiter" would - making us all feel, insidiously, inferior. This is why I no longer buy "women's" magazines.

[SmokingJacket]

1. It's freaky... but someone must like it.

I guess that's what's scary: that some people want to look at unrealistically retouched women.

Fortunately, I've never met these people.

[Heddi]

23. If all you've ever SEEN is retouched woman

you expect that it's the norm rather than the exception. When the only women you see (aside from the 'real life' women) are airbrushed, or heavily make-uped, toned, trained, personal chef'ed, you begin to believe that the retouched women are the norm, and the 'real life' women are in some way abnormal...for being normal....

[cmkramer]

25. Jamie Lee Curtis

A couple of years ago, Jamie Lee Curtis did an interview with a magazine where she posed for two pictures. One was the standard issue Hollywood retouched glamour shot, the other was an unretouched photo of her without makeup wearing a sportsbra and panties. She said she did it to show how unrealistic Hollywood standards of beauty are especially for mature women.

[XemaSab]

27. And she was considered "buff,"

a superior physical specimen, but the unretouched photos, she looked chubby, she had a tummy and cellulite.

It was very brave of her to show that even "perfect" Hollywood actresses who have personal chefs and trainers don't have "perfect" bodies.

And don't get me started on the magazines whose goal in life is to put celebrity cellulite on the cover one month and celebrity shoulderblades on the cover the next, as though the celebrities in question are freaks...

[fishwax]

35. I think many people don't even realize

how fake the pictures they see in magazines are, which further exacerbates the problem.

[KittyWampus]

40. When Corporations Manipulate Consumers, Do Consumers REALLY

"Want" something?

[SmokingJacket]

41. Not many people know what they "really want."

Our desires have been perverted by advertising and other kinds of marketing -- I totally agree with you there.

[arcane1]

2. I have a friend...

whose job a few years ago was to air-brush porn pictures, to make people more likely to chose one site over another, etc

I'm with you on this- if I want to look at cartoons, there is a network for that

[Vinnie From Indy]

3. I like retouching girls the old fashioned way

Oh yeah baby!

[CornField]

4. Unattainable beauty standards

My daughters and I talk about this all the time. I don't think people realize how absolutely horrible all the airbrushed and technologically puffed bodies make today's young women feel.

[StellaBlue]

5. indeed

to me it's the same as insidious racism, only because half the population "like" this image of womanhood, it's hard to argue with. Like racism (and hence my comparison in my OP). Or like how fundies aren't considered hate groups, because THEY'RE they ones defining the term.

[greyl]

6. Those aren't all black women, though ;)

Btw, do you wear make-up? ;)
I frequently try to persuade my SO not to straighten her hair and to be less afraid of leaving the house without make-up. However, being a thoughtful conterculture Women's Studies major, she would agree entirely with your post. (as do I) During one of our conversations about make-up, she came up with the reason, or defensive rationalization, that it qualified as artistic expression of who she was.
So what's going on there?
In our culture, I think make-up can be an addiction to some, but is it possible that there's a kind of tribal identification going on?

Ahhhh, probably nothing so deep. :)

[CornField]

9. In a way, I think you're correct

I wear make-up for certain groups but not for others. For instance, if I'm going to a herding trial, even if my dog and I are performing, I don't wear make-up. I do wear it to the troop leader meeting for Girl Scouts, but not for my troop's meetings. I could go on but the bottom line is that I wear make-up to any event in which I think it is either expected and/or my lack of make-up would call unwanted attention (or shunning) to myself.

To further the topic, when I do show up at certain meetings without make-up or if I've neglected to get my grey hairs covered up, the women at those meetings waste little time gently admonishing me for my lack of attention to myself. I often feel it bothers them much more than it bothers me that I'm not dressed, powdered and put together in a similar manner as they are.

[greyl]

11. That's interesting. Do you find women are more likely

to criticize you to your face in that circumstance?

[CornField]

15. Absolutely

And, as a group. For instance, we might be sitting or standing in a circle chatting about whatever (typically before or after the meeting). One woman will call attention to the fact that my grey hair is showing and then the rest will join in.

"You simply must make time for yourself, Lyn." or "Oh, Lyn, you know you'll feel so much better about yourself once you've taken care of it."

You get the idea.

I think there is a reason why teenagers tend to do make-up fests at slumber parties. In a way, it's a precursor for what follows during life. If you notice, women who work in the same office, often wear the same type of make-up. Rarely will you find a place where each woman chooses from a different pallet or varies from the norms of that arena. (For instance, one woman wearing heavy, black eyeliner when the others all use a subtle brown smudge or one woman using metallic eye shadows while everyone else sticks to matte plums.) The stronger women in the group, however, can dictate the overall "appropriateness" of something. That is, a woman can order a new shade or metallic from a magazine and present it to the group for inspection and/or approval. If the majority concensus is not favorable, however, the make-up will most likely end up in the trash.

One more observation and then I promise to shut up about it. I know women from several different groups. Some of the women are friends of mine from more than one group. Outward appearances -- glossy or matte lips, heavy or light liner, full-face make-up or simply powder -- will vary for the same woman when she is part of a different group. That is, women seem to change their make-up choices based on what they feel will be appropriate to the given group -- even if that dictates make-up changes between meetings.

[StellaBlue]

16. WHAT?!

Changing eye shadows between meetings?!

Do you work on a soap opera set?

That's just bizarre. I thought my workplace was a hen house... my GOD. :eyes:

[CornField]

18. Yup

Here's a real life example. I sit on a foundation board with a prominent woman in my community. She is highly regarded both professionally and personally by many people. Our foundation meetings are held during the day (noon) and this woman always wears a full-face coat, powder, lipstick, blush, shadow, liner, mascara, etc., etc. We both also serve on another group which works with a local women's shelter. That group meets in late afternoon (3:30) and this same woman has a completely different make-up approach for those meetings which consists of blush, light shadow, mascara and a little lip gloss or tint. It is a completely different routine from her make-up during the work day and during those foundation meetings.

The only thing I can come up with is that many of those who participate in the second group aren't big make-up wearers. Most go with lip balm, blush and powder. When someone does show up at the meetings with "full war paint" the others are quick to ask what's up. "Got a job interview?" "New guy in your life?"

Just one example, but it happens a great deal -- women I volunteer with in Girl Scouts wear different make-up when meet at fundraisers. Moms at the local PTA look different when you see them at the grocery store or at a play group.

I guess just like some people classify their clothing as work, casual and dress, some women do something similar with their make-up??

[StellaBlue]

20. I think the women I work with must have tattooed their war paint on

I never see them without it. And it's SERIOUS paint.

They look like clowns, IMHO.

[StellaBlue]

21. AND I work in a BANK for goodness sake.

It's not exactly a construction site. And, while they wear what is to me heavy and totally unsophisticated makeup, there is no real PRESSURE (that I am aware of). No one ever says anything to me at all about it. I feel no need to wear the same shade of eye shadow as my colleagues. This is just insane. Maybe my four years working in the UK have made me immune to the telepathic-hideous-makeup-conformity vibes or something. I cannot imagine this conversation going on at all about a British workplace. The last place I worked there, all the women were serious and about 75% of them wore no makeup at all, except maybe lip gloss. Only the 19-year-old receptions wore what we would consider real makeup - eye shadow, eyeliner, and the full kit.

[CornField]

22. I have a niece who works

for the Southern Baptist Organization (or something like that... some Baptist group) in Texas and she could be a make-up artist. ;) Rarely have I seen her (or any of my southern relatives) without their war paint or their hair fixed.

Such things were more important when I lived in that part of the US as to where I live now in Iowa. So I definitely think there is a regional influence as well.

To be honest, I'm quite surprised you haven't been invited to a Mary Kay or Avon party. That seemed to be pretty much par for the course when I was there. (It's also the type of social event where you learn which bosses are pigs and who is a push-over. LOL!)

[StellaBlue]

30. Oh, yeah

It is a Southern thing. Much worse here. I agree with that. But even here, I don't feel any overt pressure. And, yes, there was a Mary Kay party at my place of work - but only two people turned up, and one was the friend of the seller! haha I think now these women are more into luxury products. So they go to Frisco, that paradise of consumerism.

[blonndee]

17. I have had the same experience. I worked in several different service

fields before going back to school and becoming a GTA, and the amount AND style of makeup definitely tended to conform to what the others wore, especially the unavoidable "alpha" female (as much as I hate to use that term). Just like the way we dressed.

[StellaBlue]

12. Yes, there was Usher, too! haha

Yes, I wear make-up. I also wear flattering clothes and some jewelry, and, to me, it all goes together. I wear a light foundation that's usually completely gone by lunchtime, some mascara, and some Bonne Bell Lipsmacker in Dr Pepper flavor. The women I work with here in small-town Texas typically wear dark, charcoal eye shadow, heavy mascara, thick foundation with powder, blush, and dark lipliner and thick lipstick, and have large, dyed, pouffy hair. I am also the only with that doesn't have acrylic nails (ICK!), and out of the nine women in my department, only two of us don't have breast implants (myself and another woman who has naturally largish ones due to genetics and being overweight). All in all, it's scary. I think they must think I am some kind of hippe in comparison! haha. Occasionally I will put on some retro eyeliner in a futile attempt to look like an extra in Hard Day's Night, but I do that because I think it's COOL, not to look like a Barbie doll or to conform. I wear a little foundation to work and most of the time in my free time, but not always. I go out in public at least once a week with no makeup. I also only wash my face with Dove soap, use a light moisturizer with SPF, and shave my legs if and when I feel like it (winter? not so much. meh.) even though I am not blessed with fine, light blond leg hair. haha

I think most women enjoy the ritual of putting on makeup and also begin to identify with it and take it on as part of their persona and personality. Personally, I think men wearing eyeliner look HOTTTTT. :)

[kineneb]

19. I rarely wear makeup

and mostly for performances: ballet, concerts, and living history events. I just never got into wearing the stuff except for "dress up" occasions. Outside of my most recent employment, I have not worked in an environment where being dressy was needed. Woodshops and farmers markets are not places for which I dress up.

As a child I observed women putting this stuff on their faces, while men just wore their "real" faces. I decided then that I would not buy into the double standard; when I see the macho guys wearing lipstick, mascara and eye shadow, then I might entertain using it more often, but not until then. Just give me some sunscreen, and I am ready to go.

[SmokingJacket]

39. Me too!

I tried it as a teenager -- when there was a great deal of pressure to wear the stuff, particularly from my mother (!!) -- but I thought I looked like a goddamn clown, so threw it all out.

These days I wear a little now and then to look dressed up, if I feel like not dressing up would be rude, or if I'm looking especially ragged.

I don't perm or dye or curl or blowdry my hair either. Strangely enough, my husband likes me just as I am! As did all my boyfriends. So who are women doing it for? Their female friends? Strangers?

[dandrhesse]

7. Tell everyone you know about "photoshop" tricks

Having been raised in Los Angeles, I never believe anything I see in print ads or on TV. One of brother is also an excellent photographer and has told me many of the "tricks" used, but the best thing I ever did for my daughters was to take them to a seminar at a local college given by an ex-model. She put photograph after photograph up on the "big screen" with a slide show. She showed the un-retouched photos and then the "after" photo after they were "photoshopped". Models ribs are blurred, they add boobs and butts where too thin models have none. They paint over nipples so they don't show and of course it is standard to erase facial lines and make those of look fat, thin and those who are too thin, curvaceous. I have always told my daughter that this is what is done but to have someone show them example after example really brings the point home. We now get a kick out of looking for photoshop errors in magazines and if you look there are lots. They don't match up hairlines, they blur something so much it becomes fused with the persons skin, teeth are whitened etc. Believe me they can make anyone look terrific.

So tell everyone you know about the photoshop program and how it distorts reality. There are not tons of gorgeous women that are over 40 with no sag in their bottom and no lines on their faces, but photoshop and the ad community would like you to think there are so you will feel insecure and need to buy whatever they are selling!

Here's to the truth! It will set you free!

[greyl]

8. Also, those people are all products to be sold.

They do the same, or worse with cars and cheeseburgers. They are trying to look better than the competition. I think most mature women realize this, but many are still in competition with other women who are "fighting dirty" by putting on a fake face. There are also plenty of guys who see the marketed images for what they are, but they may not be a majority yet. ;)

[boobooday]

10. The second woman

Had butt additions and boob additions.

I think they look better in the "before" versions. At least if the goal is a photo of a human being.

[blonndee]

13. On a positive note, my freshmen young women (college) are

obsessed with this topic! Many of them write papers on the unrealistic beauty standards portrayed in the media, and learn a lot in their research about how photos are altered. Even if they were originally writing a paper about, say, anorexia (which they love to try to find the causes of), their research usually directs them to media outlets and information about retouching. They are usually OUTRAGED and also (from some personal testimony some have shared with me and/or included in their papers) reject at least to some degree such standards. I KNOW they tell their girlfriends about it, and it makes me happy.

I HATE that this is going on, but it does make me feel better to see "my girls" concerned with and subsequently informed about, this issue.




edited for grammar (for gods' sakes, I'm an English teacher!) :dunce:

[StellaBlue]

14. That's great news.

I think some of it has now gotten so preposterous that the industry is undermining itself, you know? Behold the great and powerful Oz...

[Horse with no Name]

24. When I worked at a large and prestigious hospital in Dallas

the area that you and I live in is regarded as "behind the pine curtain".
I don't wear makeup and I also like to wear my hair short--I hate to have to make a fuss. Of course I am in my mid- 40's and not a wrinkle in sight.
Moisturize!
One of the guys that I worked with (he was a hick from a northern "903" area code).
He told me once that I was very beautiful--but he said that living in the part of Texas(hicksville) that I do, that it would be hard for me to find a man unless I would let my hair grow out and start wearing makeup.:eyes:
Of course I jumped right on that one.:puke:

[StellaBlue]

31. I am in 903

hahahahahahahaha

People tell me I'll never find a man all the time, but it's more because of what come out of my mouth than what color is on it. ;)

[XemaSab]

26. That's crazy shit

Butts and breasts get plumper, thighs and tummies get leaner, and they made Halle Berry look LESS thin.

And these are African American models/actresses, for whom plump butts are considered attractive. I shudder to think what a before/after of white models and actresses would look like.

That's some really sobering stuff.

[jmowreader]

28. Put me down as "unimpressed"

Ninety percent of the "technical, artistic" side of this man's work is color correction. The rest is fixing things that should have been fixed at the photo session.

The four most common things he "fixed": lighting, hair, eye makeup and lipstick. Followed by bad scanning, wardrobe stuff and set dressing.

I'll give you some examples:

http://glennferon.com/portfolio1/portfolio39.html

Bad lighting, bad styling. Almost everything there is hair-related.

http://glennferon.com/portfolio1/portfolio03.html

Bad lighting, bad scan, inexperienced model doing her own makeup.

http://glennferon.com/portfolio1/portfolio06.html

Bad scan, art director didn't like the makeup.

http://glennferon.com/portfolio1/portfolio09.html

Bad set styling--look at the towel's relation to the right breast.

http://glennferon.com/portfolio1/portfolio07.html

This is the only really impressive one in the whole batch. This is nice,

[Northwind]

34. I think you are forgetting...

The boob and butt inflation that is apparent on almost every one.

[AlCzervik]

29. Toni Braxton retouched looks so fake, she is a beautiful woman

[StellaBlue]

32. This is the wildest one, to me

http://glennferon.com/portfolio1/portfolio15.html

[kwassa]

33. I used to do lighting professionally, and ...

there are simply lighting tricks that make anyone look better.

If the person is lit with a soft fill light (not a point source) from a position close to the camera lens, it will kill most of the person's wrinkles and age lines and make them look ten years younger. The light must be low enough not to cast shadows in the eye socket.

(I can also make you look ten years older, if you like! hehehe!)

[Batgirl]

36. thanks for the link

This subject is morbidly fascinating.

Sometimes for my job I have to "fix" things in photoshop, but it's not to achieve anything like that level of fakeness. Just to airebrush out distracting or unwanted elements, from photos that were of poor quality, and for one reason or another no better image is available.

The objects and people in the photos still look real though. But the kind of retouching shown at this link, you really end up with something that's more of a Jessica Rabbit-type illustration than a photo. Even young and beautiful females still have pores and veins. Even stick thin females, if they twist and bend at the waist, will display a fold of flesh, a smallish bulge of skin.

These are photos of naturally beautiful women who still weren't perfect enough. Their tummies still had to be flatter, their butts still had to be perkier, their features still had to be smoother and more symmetrical. The creatures you end up with have all the reality of Shrek. I hope that today's young women and girls are smart enough not to compare themselves with that.

[mongo]

37. Reading through the responses to this thread

It is evident what a classist problem this is. It is only the professional class that is held to these "beauty standards".

Poor rich white women.

[Missy Vixen]

38. Women, age, and appearance

>the airbrushing of all women<

Take a look at the cover of "Vanity Fair" this month. Lindsay Lohan is what, nineteen? She's the standard of beauty. Beyonce is a gorgeous woman. At the same time, according to magazine editors, they need "help". I don't understand this.

We have a male friend who was glancing through a recent issue of "People" magazine recently and commenting on photographs of the women. There was a photo of a gorgeous woman who's very beloved on DU; he said, "I can't believe how many wrinkles she has. Is this normal?" I responded, "She's 56. That's pretty normal, unless you spend a lot of money on plastic surgery." It's incredible to me that a normal, unaltered face is so alien to anyone else that they'd comment on it. Interestingly enough, his wife is older than the woman in the photograph. I guess he just doesn't notice the changes in her over the years.

Women are taught that younger is better, that one should "get with the program" re: makeup, haircolor, fashionable clothing, Botox and other plastic surgeries, etcetera. The threads about Republican women and their appearance on DU are always interesting to me, that's for sure. If we don't reflect what society deems attractive, we're not worthy of attention, and very much the objects of derision as well. I submit that it's impossible to attain that standard at any age.

Julie

[MellowOne]

42. Men don't understand

why their girlfriends and wives don't look as good as these models and stars.

[immoderate]

43. The photograph itself is an interpretation.

People see photographs differently than the original scene. There is already one translation. What's the difference if the photos are further touched to bring them into line with a more aesthetic ideal?

--IMM