The Dark Side PBS - praise and criticism

[peacetalksforall]

Very well done - however -

No mentions of Brewster-Jennings. When are people going to stop being reticent? The truth I 'lknow' is there has not yet come out for the general public who might watch this program - the real reason for taking B'J down.

Otherwise - I thank all these people who put this program together and thanks to those who spoke. Excellent progam.

I learned and I thought I knew quite a bit It is amazing to see it condensed and see the chronologcial unraveling and reenactment.

We are living the history and we just had a quick little rerun within the advancing history.

[napi21]

1. It was a very well put together program. My comgrats!!!!

It looks like you will be able to view the entire program online as of Thrusday at 5:00ET. If My perception is true, we should tell everyone to view it.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/

[Olney Blue]

2. I wish Frontline would do an entire program on the CIA leak investigation.

We might have to wait until the Libby trial (if he is not pardoned) to hear the truth.

[greyl]

3. I won't fault them for leaving out anything

because we could always find something that was left out.

The show is damn excellent, very inclusive, and makes a damn strong case against the war in Iraq and Cheney's cronies.

[Mr_Spock]

4. Exactly

There was so much there - how could I complain?

[greyl]

8. The Tenet stuff was interesting.

I was distracted at times - What was the explanation for him essentially changing his story regarding the NIE as a "slam dunk"? (pressure from Cheney?)

[peaches2003]

40. To be on the inside

Because he wanted to one of the inside circle and knew Bush, Cheney, Rummy would get rid of him if he didn't 'go along to get along'. Like Colin Powell. They both could have stood up and been men, but they didn't have the guts. They will both rot in hell.

[sipnsail]

5. It was a very good program and everyone in America should watch it.

I wish that Frontline would tell the story about the weapons inspectors search in Iraq for WMD.
The weapons inspectors knew there were no WMD before we went to war. They had spent at least 7 to 8 years in Iraq looking for them and and had accounted for or destroyed 90% - 95% of what Saddam had.
But you rarely if ever hear that anywhere in the media. That's why Bush pulled the weapons inspectors out of Iraq. Because he knew they couldn't find any WMD and he was hell bent on invading Iraq.

[Gloria]

6. Also didn't mention Rummy's role in Tora Bora, as reported

by Sy Hersh....

but that would have interrupted the flow.

[greyl]

7. It said that the Pentagon (rummy) let the CIA and the N. Alliance

wait around for a month in Afghanistan with no support because Cheney and the Pentagon wanted Iraq.
I'm sure I missed some other things.

[Gloria]

9. I'm sorry, I wasn't clear--I meant to say Rummy and Osama's

ESCAPE from Tora Bora (Rummy's allowing him to escape), as reported by Sy Hersh.

[greyl]

11. The difference being that you think

Rummy let him escape on purpose?

Rummy didn't have much control during the first phase of the operations in Afghanistan.

[Skarbrowe]

14. Had to give OBL time to get away. Oh..uh.. I didn't say that. nt

[greyl]

16. Nobody said that. nt

[Skarbrowe]

15. Had to give OBL time to get away. Oh..uh.. I didn't say that. nt

[Mr_Spock]

10. They ran "Rumsfeld's War" directly after "The Dark Side" on my local PBS

Rummy has been a dick head his entire career - Nixon apparently wanted to bump him off - I wish he had.

[greyl]

12. shit, here they go straight to the community idea station logo

and classical music.

[alfredo]

13. I got the impression that they did shoot down Flight 93.

Did you catch that? Or was it Cheney had the impression that 93 was shot down?

What was your take on that?

[greyl]

17. They made it clear that Cheney believed it was shot down

at least for a short time.

(I'm still not totally convinced that it wasn't)

[Viva_La_Revolution]

18. I'm convinced it was

You don't get wreckage scattered over 8 miles from a ground crash.

[greyl]

20. Have you ruled out other possibilities? nt

[Viva_La_Revolution]

23. Like what?

it crashed into the ground, and one of the engines bounced and flew 6 miles away?

I find that VERY hard to believe.

If the wreckage was strewn over several miles (as residents have said) then the "official story" is highly suspect.

disclaimer: if I link to more details, this will get moved to the dungeon, and we don't want that to happen, now do we?

[greyl]

24. That's ok, you answered my question. nt

[alfredo]

35. it seems that it wasn't refuted. The story of "let's roll" was

too Madison Ave for me.

Was there any cell phone communications during the plunge to earth during the struggle, or did all communication stop suddenly?

[Cameron27]

22. I believe cheney had the impression that flight 93

was shot down. I do wish that all of America watched as a VP scrambled fighters with the intent to down commercial aircraft without any apparent communication with *. I knew about it, but thought Frontline presented an excellent sequence of events.

The power play of cheney and rums and the capitulation of tenet and powell was unnerving to watch. And bu$h ??? A true puppet.

[malaise]

31. That was very interesting

to me.

Superb program.

[alfredo]

34. Puppet? more like Useful Idiot.

Is bush a protagonist or a prisoner?

[Cameron27]

37. Your right of course

bush is no prisoner. He's both evil and an idiot, and though he is a protagonist, he's easily led by cheney and rums.

[alfredo]

41. He's a willing Dupe.

[Perky]

27. The scary part is that Cheney was apparently Barking Orders

He ordered all planes grounded and the shoot down
and not Dubya. That is pretty much a Coupd'etat.

It may well have been the right thing to do but it should not have been his call.

[incapsulated]

19. It was excellent, no complaints here. n/t

[sandnsea]

21. Absolute undeniable facts

That's why the speculation of Brewster Jennings wasn't in there, no EVIDENCE. That's why this program was so excellent, it was absolute facts. We need more of this kind of journalism in the blogosphere. These people are so awful that we don't have to risk credibility by presenting the unknown as truth. Stick to absolute facts, we'd be leaps and bounds ahead if we did that.

[peacetalksforall]

32. I only wanted to hear someone to include the words Brewster-Jennings.

They wouldn't have to do it with a story. Just an afterword. The only one of those guys who I think has said something is Johnson. People have to understand the full impact. Mention the word and someone can look into it on their own. Their subterranean motive will reveal itself. Trafficking.

[oasis]

25. PBS must use the time to educate dumbeddown America little by little.

The is only so much the average Joe can absorb in 90 minutes.

[Perky]

26. I would have like to have seeen some neo-con interviews

It was great accurate information but broke no new ground in my opinion had some Neo-cons like Lederer are Wolfowitz trying to support what happened.


I think the underlying theme was that Dubya is dolt and he has allowed CHeney to run things.

End of the day. It was great, but honestly it was was a rehash of stuff I already knew and I doubt it changed many minds.

28. It seemed to show a string a people who could have done something

but didn't because they wanted to be players. Tenet, Powell, CIA analysts. And people knew Rumsfeld and Cheney liked to consolidate power, because they did it when they were with Ford. Silence and complicity lead down a deadly path.

Wilson spoke out. Will any of those criminals pay for outing his wife or anything else?

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

29. one thing that was missing was the wolfowitz clip

in which he said that the wmd threat was used to scare us into supporting the invasion.

[long_green]

30. What blew my mind about "The Dark Side"...

was the part they left out.
George W. Bush.
Where was he? Did he have anything to contribute at all? The answer, according to the producers, is no. If Dick Cheney is able to get away with having his chief of staff write the text of the most important speech of the pre-invasion period and hand it to the Secretary of State, what is he doing with the President?
BTW, it doesn't matter if Powell actually used the text or not. That Cheney thinks he can dictate to the Head of the State Department to that extent says volumes. Is there anything in our history that is comparable (other than Hannibal Hamlin bossing William Seward around during the Civil War)?
The program made the point that Cheney is the most powerful VP in our nation's history but it left the implication of that point, what this says about the character and abilities of the President, hanging in the air. Was this meant to help the President or was it meant to show him the maximum of contempt. Probably the latter.

[peacetalksforall]

33. Yes - the program reinforced my position which needed no

reinforcement. Cheney is it. From the barons to Cheney and out from there including Rove. No matter how the leak and take down of Brewster-Jennings ends up between Cheney-Libby Bush-Rove, Rove politicizes what Cheney directs and manages George at the same time (and in partnership with others like Card and his replacement). Managing George is a really big job because in order to get him to perform as the fund raiser they have to make him believe he IS the President and keep him pumped up. That makes George want to have a thought of his own. Sadly, his is a loyalty-betrayl-revenge and looking into the soul world (or his version of what a soul is).

[Supersedeas]

36. Do they do a replay of Frontline later in the week???

[SharonRB]

38. I thought it was wonderful

Not that I didn't know most of it, but it was very well put together and seeing it all in one place and in sequence, with statements from so many former CIA people, really added impact to it all. Everyone should watch this. I'm sorry I didn't tape it so my husband could see it. He was busy watching basketball last night, but he would have loved this.

[SeattleRob]

39. I though it was very good

I wish they would have covered information about Cheney and Rummy's financial motivations. Otherwise, it was an excellent overview of how we got where we are.

[Rob H.]

42. I wish they'd mentioned

the Office of Special Plans and the White House Iraq Group. They also didn't spell out that when Rice and Cheney referenced Judith Miller's articles in The New York Times, the information that they claimed they got from the Times was provided to Miller by Scooter Libby.

Other than that, though, :thumbsup:.