Was Poppy Shrub pulling strings during Carter's presidency?

[BushOut06]

I touched on this in the Carter thread below, but decided to give it its own thread.

Wasn't Poppy running the CIA at that point? We know he had extensive ties to the Saudis; is it possible he used those ties to help encourage the oil embargo, helping to drive our economy in the toilet? And perhaps with his ties to Iran, is it possible that he encouraged the hostage taking? Is it any coincidence that he ran for president in '80? Carter screws up the country, here comes Poppy to save the day! When that plan fails, he somehow gets Reagan to name him his running mate (didn't Reagan and Bush have a particularly nasty primary?).

[underpants]

1. Look Poppy has been pulling strings since he helped start the CIA

Everything that has gone on since WWII Poppy has know all about. HE is the real life smoking man.

[FreedomAngel82]

6. Poppy helped to start the CIA??

I'm sure he was behind killing Kennedy too. :cry:

[underpants]

17. Well....should I say it or let the conspiracy theorists say it

Poppy was IN Dallas that day

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

43. well, if not Dallas, then Fort Worth

he is the ONLY American I have ever met, or heard of who cannot remember where they were on 11/22/63

now for someone who is supposed to be a genius master of the universe, sure seems he would remember that.

[dflprincess]

44. As I've said before

Poppy is the only person who was more than 5 years old on 11/22/63 who doesn't have an alibi.

[melody]

40. The Carlyle Group/BushCo

I think they've been behind every bad thing including the Kennedy killing that has happened in this country in recent years.

If you look at their members, a clear theme emerges. :eyes:

Here's a link regarding October Surprise for those who want a quick overview:
http://www.skepticfiles.org/socialis/surprise.htm

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

2. well, yes. Iran Contra was already in full swing before

the election.

No one has, to my knowledge, investigated the treason committed by that bunch as they undermined the foreign policy of the US at the time.

[leveymg]

16. No Iran-Contra investigation?

Read the Kerry Committee and Walsh reports. http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/ http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/

Was every credible reported fact in there? No. Were all the dots connected? No. But, there was no investigation? No

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

41. The treason word was NOT used.

that is what I meant, and there was little, if any, looking into the events prior 1980 election.

[blm]

3. He absolutely was.

I believe he even refused to allow Carter to see all the information re extraterrestial data, something Carter was very interested in at the time.

[FreedomAngel82]

8. Could he get that info now if he wanted?

What if Carter wanted that info now? Could he get it now? Poppy was also behind the whole hostage thing as well. Anyone know why those particular guys were kidnapped?

[FreedomAngel82]

4. Anyone who has studied that time

knows that Reagan and Poppy didn't like each other. It's even thought that Poppy was behind trying to assisinate Reagan.

[racaulk]

12. You know, I never thought about that, but it wouldn't surprise me!

The Bush approach to elections seems to be if you can't win them, steal them. Add to that the insatiable thirst for power that the BFEE has, then it wouldn't surprise me at all that Poppy would hire a hit man to off Reagan in an attempt to ascend to the Presidency. Evil fucker!

[unblock]

5. i don't recall an oil embargo during the carter years

the oil embargos happend in the nixon/ford years. it just took a while for the economic disaster to ripple through the manufacturing economy. ford had the initial bout of inflation, which he chose to fight fervently with "whip inflation now" buttons.

cater was left holding the bag and did the best he could by appointing paul volker to the chair the fed, who in turn raised rates to the moon to stamp out inflation.

[BushOut06]

11. Gotcha - should probably have brushed up on my history

I thought the oil embargo thing happened while Carter was in office. I'm pretty sure that Poppy was working behind the scenes to sabotage Carter's presidency, though. That probably goes without saying.

[leveymg]

20. You forgot the "Iran Oil Crisis" of 1979-80

Which was largely contrived, but immensely effective in pushing up oil industry profits and in creating a public sense of crisis going into the 1980 elections. See,

The Nation, 04/21/1979 - The Phony Oil Crisis by Deutsch, Peter
If the oil shortage is "real" it is because oil companies are building up ... The Phony Oil Crisis PETER DEUTSCH Faced with the onslaught of crisis ...

The Nation, 08/02/1980 - Editorials
It blamed everything on the cutoff of Iranian oil-the much-ballyhooed ... Iran's shortfall in exports has not produced any real shortage of crude in the ...

http://www.nationarchive.com/Summaries/v231i0004_04.htm

[malaise]

7. Read the now unclassified files

on Jamaica.

[melody]

9. Two words: October Surprise

That was supposedly Poppy's operation from start to finish, which put his figurehead Reagan in office. Once in (the theory goes), he had his old friend John Hinckley Sr's little boy John try to off Reagan, which would have made him President. We might have gone through this nightmare back then, if Clinton hadn't knocked Poppy off his perch.

Given such a scenario, apparently Poppy is under the mistaken belief that he owns the country and can do whatever he wants with it.

[Stephanie]

13. Bingo

October Surprise + IranContra = Poppy's Dirty Tricks

[Horse with no Name]

22. "if Clinton hadn't knocked Poppy off his perch"

Can you imagine a scenario that would force this evil cabal to make sure that never happened again?
Oh say, something like enlisting the support of Republican supporters who owned voting machines?

[TomInTib]

30. "October Surprise", Barbara Honneger. All you gotta do is go to

the end of the book and read all the bizarre things that happened to the players in that deception.

A LOT of accidental deaths and other BFEE stunts.

[radio4progressives]

10. Bush was CIA Director under the Ford Administration

Yes the direct ties are there ... .

[zbdent]

32. 1975-1977

[flyarm]

14. yes as simple as that..yes!!!!!!!!!!..n/t

[BushOut06]

24. The man was in charge of the CIA...

Maybe I've read too many Robert Ludlum novels. While I'm not saying that anything I've said actually happened, I wouldn't put any of it past him. Poppy was a master of all that cloak-and-dagger stuff, he was head of the CIA at the height of the Cold War and the KGB.

[WI_DEM]

15. "wasn't he running the CIA at that point?" No

Carter appointed Adm. Stanfield Turner as CIA director.

[underpants]

18. Right-Poppy was CIA director until the day Carter took office

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_the_Central_Intelligence_Agency

[WI_DEM]

19. how Bush got to be Reagan's VP

first it is not uncommon for people who don't like each other to end up on the same ticket. It has happened several times in history. Some say Kennedy/Johnson was a primary example. Second, Reagan initially wanted Gerald Ford as his running mate, but Ford had several requirements before he would accept, basically saying he would be incharge of foreign policy, so in the end Reagan decided not to go with Ford. Finally, Bush was Reagan's closest competitor in the primaries and did well in some areas (the Northeast) that Reagan didn't, so they decided to go with Bush as VP--also due to his foreign policy experience. Again choosing a competitor from the primaries is not something unheard of, Again Kennedy-Johnson and most recently Kerry-Edwards.

[donkeyotay]

21. Not much has changed since Reagan committed treason for office

The GOP-CIA is still selling America out for their own profit, and, since they used Israel, I wouldn't be surprised if Israel isn't blackmailing them with it. In any case, there doesn't seem to be much about Washington that isn't co-opted to either foreign or private interests. Democracy is just "mob rule" you know, and national security is trump.

[GrumpyGreg]

23. Lots of specualtion here--do you have any facts to support your

theories?

None of it would surprise me though---I would just like more information if it is available.

[BushOut06]

25. Not really - just some rambling thoughts

I'm sure there was probably a lot more going on than what we'll ever know about. The problem with this sort of stuff is that it doesn't exactly lend itself to backing info.

In fact, I seriously hope I really haven't hit on anything too serious or valid - otherwise, I might be getting a visit from some mysterious visitors soon.

[GrumpyGreg]

26. You mean the men in black with sunglasses crowd? Scary isn't it?

[BushOut06]

28. Exactly - always gotta be careful aboafjlkaj aji3 nlkadfAD

[stillcool]

36. More info than you dare read....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4390395


http://knowyourbfee.blogspot.com/2005/06/know-your-bfee-master-log.html


http://www.iraqtimeline.com/index.html

[GrumpyGreg]

39. Thanks for those links---just what I was looking for. n/t

[raysr]

27. Maybe Poppy had other

plans for Reagan. http://www.hereinreality.com/hinckley.html

[xchrom]

29. iran/contra, director of cia before carter

deep involvement with forming the cia, etc -- you betcha.

it's all about power.

[Frustratedlady]

33. Am I right or wrong

in that one of the first things GW did, when he took office, was to classify/lock up the papers from the Iran Contra Affair? I remember thinking that it was strange, as they had hearings on the ICA, so the papers would surely be part of the investigation and, therefore, public knowledge. It would be interesting to go back through that ICA and see how the "facts" look to us, today, with the added experience of the * family.

Oops, there's a knock at my door. :(

[BushOut06]

34. Why would that be strange?

After all, his daddy was right in the thick of things. Just protecting old pops. Actually he was probably "asked" to do so by Poppy. I doubt Gopher King would have thought to do that on his own.

[Frustratedlady]

35. Strange, because they had already

had the hearings and, supposedly, would have reviewed all the papers connected to that affair, so they would have been public record. I was busy during that hearing (and couldn't stand looking/listening to Oliver North), so I don't remember much about what all came down.

[Cleita]

31. Also, there is rumors he might have been behind the

assassination of John Kennedy, while at the CIA, moving Lyndon Johnson into place as Presidnet, a Texan who could be either bribed or blackmailed for Poppy's oil interests. I often wonder why the real reason was that Johnson didn't run for another term? Somehow his excuse didn't ring true to me.

Putting on my :tinfoilhat:

[Initech]

37. I think he's been pulling the strings for a long time

And it's becoming clearer and clearer that he's the smoking guy from the X-Files - the guy who knows all the secrets the government doesnt want you to know.

Look at the last five years - I'm damn positive that the only reason we still have a George Bush in charge is because Bush Sr. is mad for losing the election to Clinton, and the only recourse for that was completely destroying the democratic party by having mouthpieces like that fat fuck Limbaugh and Fox "News" do his dirty work for him.

[Zen Democrat]

38. Carter initially appointed Ted Sorenson, JFK aide, to CIA Director

However, the appointment had to be withdrawn because Congress objected that Sorenson had no "CIA experience." The odd thing is that this question wasn't raised when Ford appointed George Bush as CIA Director, who, ostensibly, also had no CIA experience. There are volumes inherent in that scenario.

But Bush was out at CIA the day Carter was inaugurated. Adm. Stansfield Turner tossed out a big group of "Bush" people in the CIA and these are the folks who spent the next four years attempting to smear Carter and his administration.

[leftofthedial]

42. the Bush Crime family has been pulling strings for a century

[Geek_Girl]

45. Does anybody have a link

to the JEdger Hoover memo that basically states that Poppy was CIA during the Kennedy Assassination. I've been looking for it.