Chavez has turned into a parody. Which is a shame;

[Redstone]

I had damn high hopes for him.

Now, because he doesn't know how to quit when he's ahead, he'll end up being remembered as just another irrelevant, two-bit tinpot South American blowhard.

I really wish that were not the case. But it is, and it's a damn shame. Get back to me two years from now, and let's see how people cheer him.

Redstone

[whistle]

1. Have you read the transcript of all of Hugo Chavez's U.N. speech?

...you'll find it all at this link:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2840572&mesg_id=2840603

I sent it out to all of my email list. He spoke truth to power. Truth always wins in the end.

[Redstone]

9. Yes.

Redstone

[1932]

21. Yes...and...

[Redstone]

28. Yes, and that's why I said what I said.

Redstone

[1932]

41. Which was because....?

[Redstone]

50. Because I read the transcript.

Redstone

[1932]

53. And...

I'm just looking for some evidence of logic or reasoning...feel free to cite something from the speech beyond the first paragraph, which we know the MSM loved. If you're basing your entire opinion on one line in the first paragraph, fine. But if there was something beyond that paragraph that you thought was ridiculous, I'd love to see you make an argument about it.

[Redstone]

56. I've already stated my position.

Redstone

[GreenTea]

2. He's has far too much oil for that...He's got power and he's going to

keep attacking your favorite prez over & over again...Only in this country...the rest of the world agrees with him 100%.

[billbuckhead]

5. Someone has to point out that the emporer has no clothes

or that he's an alcoholic sicko. Chavez is the greatest force for actual (d)emocracy in the world today.

[barb162]

35. First, it is probably pointed out about a million times a day that

emperor bush has no clothes for the last six+ years on many, many boards. Second, alcoholism is a disease and there's no point calling someone names with a disease. Third, we don't know if he still is an alcoholic although he probably was one when he was younger. Fourth, Chavez is the greatest force for democracy? Where did you get that?

"Media watchdogs have been highly critical of the behaviour of the Venezuelan media, and of President Chavez's attitudes towards broadcasters and the press.

The president has been accused of creating a hostile, intimidatory climate for journalists, while some private media outlets have been criticised for being involved in the opposition movement against him" snip

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/country_profiles/1229345.stm

[Taoschick]

45. Alcoholic sicko?

As someone who has family members who are alcoholics, I find it odd that people on this forum would throw that out as a disparaging term.

[barb162]

49. same here

It's hitting below the belt. Alcoholism is such a difficult disease...nuff said

[Redstone]

61. Hey, I questioned Saint Hugo. After that, the gloves seem to come off.

Redstone

[Cameron27]

6. Look, Redstone is a decent man

and outstanding member of DU...quit the damn slur.

[Redstone]

14. Why, thank you. I don't believe we've met (but then again I do forget

an awful lot), but I'm pleased to make your acquaintance.

But it's all right; people can accuse me of saying things that I did not in fact say as much as they want to. The fun begins when I challenge them to point out exactly where I said what I did not say.

Thanks again.

Redstone

[Cameron27]

26. It's really not difficult to see the person behind the keyboard

You're one of the good ones 'round these parts.:)

[Redstone]

32. Funny how I have not yet gotten a response to my challenge.

That kind of hostile yahoo usually likes to make a stupid, inflammatory, unfounded accusation, then runs away.

Happens all the time. Not a big deal.

Thanks again. We ever meet, the beer's on me.

Redstone

[oblivious]

69. Give me a break.He has announced his hatred of an entire ethnic group here

I've never seen anyone else on DU go that far.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1795468#1795507

[Redstone]

71. So I don't like Russians. Big fucking deal. Are you a stalker or what,

that you dug so deep to bring that up?

That's an unnatural obsession, right there. I'd appreciate it if you would cease that obsession. It's kinda creepy, you know.

Redstone

[oblivious]

76. There are a few extreme statements that stick in the mind. Very few.

This was one of them. Most of them get deleted.

Search 'Redstone' and 'Russians'. It only takes 5 seconds.

[Redstone]

77. That's a hell of an obsession you have right there. I'd appreciate it if

you'd stay away from me.

Redstone

[Redstone]

11. So, would you care to point out exactly where I said that bushyboy is

"my favorite president?"

I'd be damned interested to see where I said that.


Redstone

[GreenTea]

33. Don't be so insecure. I'm right here.

:hi: Hello! Obviously if you post here-you despise the fucker Bush as much as I do...It's a way of joking "your favorite" this or that... an insinuation of the opposite...Let me suggest a television show you might enjoy, its called the Colbert Report it's on Comedy Central 11:30 pm - It's also "parody"...You've never joked with anyone saying something you know the opposite to be true...Shit, your on DU - OF COURSE he's not your favorite Prez...Is he anybody's favorite Devil? I would say lighten up a bit, but truly I think you would take it too hard and that I am trying to insult you, when I not...:cry:

"Now shut the fuck up!" I'M JOKING!!!

On Edit: (Truly sorry U took it the wrong way dude).
:pals:

[Redstone]

64. It's okay, then. No problem. But I think you understand that the level of

vitriol that I receive for questioning Saint Hugo makes me less likely to understand sarcasm or other humor.

Yes, I've seen clips of Colbert. He's genuinely funny.

And thank you for the explanation.

Redstone

[GreenTea]

59. Redstone?? Are you there?

Did you understand my post above this one? Let me know and I'll try to explain a little more in depth if necessary.

I don't want you to be so angry, "I'd be damned interested to see where I said that." I don't believe I know you well enough for you to be so angry at me...I've never seen your name before, as you haven't seen mine...just two devil passing in the night... if I never run into you again...Take care and all my best!

Viva Chavez!

Bravo!

[barb162]

18. How do you know the rest of the world agrees 100%

Got a link? How do you know if those diplomats in that room in the UN were laughing AT him versus WITH him? I think he made an idiot out of himself

[GreenTea]

63. OK you got me...

99% of the world.

[MoseyWalker]

3. maybe not

he's being portrayed as a lunatic, but I don't know if I have enough information. I wish some from south america, who are in the country or region, would post their thoughts.

we'll see, indeed.

I keep thinking of Aristide every time I hear something about Chavez. Not sure why.

[bananas]

10. Someone did

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2199890&mesg_id=2200358

[MoseyWalker]

15. thanks again!

:hi:

[Redstone]

23. Hey, I never said he was bad for Venezuela. How could I, when they

ELECTED him? Obviously, they like him there.

Similarly, I don't care too much for the suffering that Castro has brought to Cubans, but the average Cuban seems to like him, so what validity does my opinion have? None, that's now much.

I'm talking about him making stupid speeches. He'd be much more able to further his policies on an international scale if he'd learn how to be a fucking statesman than by doing the 21st-century equivalent of Nikita banging his shoe on the table.

Redstone

[U4ikLefty]

44. So are you implying that the Cubans & Venezuelan are stupid

for electing their leaders. You used the word "suffering" which is a tip-off to your real feelings about Castro & Chavez.

Chavez & Castro are much more revered than Bu$h around the world...are they all as misguided???

...and YES I read you post.

[Redstone]

55. No, I did not imply that. I said that the people who live in those

countries elected (Chavez) and seem to like (Castro), and therefore it's not for me to tell them they're wrong.

You may have read my post, but you certainly didn't understand it.

Pay more attention, would you?

Redstone

[U4ikLefty]

62. I most certainly UNDERSTOOD it.

I read the subtext in your post. Which impied that people were "suffering" under thier rule, yet they continue to elect them...thus their stupidity.

...and I note that you didn't argue my point about your negative view of Chavez & Castro are clearly seen in your posts.

With all that baggage, I cannot take your assesment of Chavez' "diplomacy" seriously.

BTW, what do you belive the rest of the world thinks of Chavez' comments??? Because I would assert that Chavez spoke to the majority of peoples around that world when he called Bu$h "El diablo".

[Redstone]

65. I don't write "subtexts." I say what I mean.

And I don't have any baggage.

Goodbye.

Redstone

[barb162]

46. bravo!

If he just would have said it diplomatically he would have done himself and his country proud and he would have had more lasting impact and respect. He gained a lot of attention the way he did this speech, but it was not "good" attention.

[Redstone]

16. Very thoughtful post. Well said and asked. However, Aristide was never

that openly inflammatory, as I remember. Of course, I could be forgetting...

Remember, Aristide presided over one of only two countries in the world that has no army. That puts him into kind of a special class, in my opinion. I have a great deal of respect for him.

Redstone

[1932]

25. If Aristide, or Allende, or Mossadegh, or Arbenz, or Llumumba gave a UN

speech today, do you think they wouldn't have the same level of anger towards US policy?

[Redstone]

29. Possibly, but they'd likely not showboat as much.

Redstone

[1932]

40. Do you think they should stick their pinkies out while sipping their tea?

"Showboat?"

You wouldn't happen to be one of those people who liked Kerry's response to the Swiftboaters, or who thought Bob Kerrey or Mike Dukakis failure to display righteous indignity in the face of outrageous accusations was good because, although it might have cost them their elections, at least nobody could accuse them of showboating.

[Redstone]

48. Did I mention stupid, unfounded accusations?

Boy, you have a bunch of them.

Redstone

[1932]

54. I know you've stated your OPINION,

but if you're not going to support it with an argument, it has very little value. I'm asking you to add an argument to that opinion so that we can have a discussion. But if you just want to post content-less slogans, I'm not interested in participating.

[Redstone]

57. So don't. I don't care what you do, unless you're going to actually

TELL me where I said any of those words that you put into my mouth.

Other than that, I'm not interested.

Redstone

[drthais]

4. don't be too sure...

I just saw an interview on BET
with Tavis Smiley and Hugo Chavez
very intriguing

Chavez gets a wild hair every now and then
and I think those particular parts of his speech at the U.N.
were inappropriate

but he has many important things to say
and should not be dismissed out of hand

only if you pay attention to the U.S. MSM
do you get only the bits and parts of the story
that's how we do the news, don't you know

never take what you see on TV and in the newspapers
as the complete story
it never is

[Redstone]

30. That's my point. If he'd concentrate on the important things he has to

say, without the ridiculous bombast, he'd gain much more support.

I mean, does anyone listen anymore when the Iranian government calls us "the Great Satan?"

I don't think they do.

Redstone

[UTUSN]

7. He was FUN!!!1 n/t

[Cha]

8. No, Chavez is not a

parody. Quit worrying.

[Jcrowley]

12. It is not the case

Discover What the World Thinks About U.S.
With Translated Foreign News Available NOWHERE Else In English.

http://www.watchingamerica.com/index.shtml

Check out what the rest of the world thinks. You cannot underestimate the amount of Anti-American sentiment that is in the world at this moment. And the Anti-Bush sentiment is off the charts.

With that as a background the world applauded Chavez' comments and also understood what he was doing more than any literal interpretation could do justice.

The best way to check this out is to scrutinize the world's media. Link above will help in that endeavor.

[barb162]

13. That was a buffoonish performance

NOT very diplomatic. I would suspect Venezuelans were crawling under their chairs in embarassment watching him. Remember when elder Bush vomited on the Japanese politician at dinner towards the end of his presidency? I was rolling my eyes watching that one too.
:hi:

[Just Me]

17. Disagree! He learned from the "Emperor" to be extreme linguistically.

,...and got attention.

You gotta' be "EXTRA", these days, to get attention: extra humble, extra exuberant, extra critical, extra extra,...in corprAmerika,...

You're wrong, this time.

[barb162]

22. The only thing he'd learn from shrub is to be linguistically incoherent

[ptolle]

51. consumption

I suspect Chavez' performance was as much for domestic consumption as anything, and that said while his rhetoric may be a bit overblown and melodramatic I'd also bet his table manners are no worse than the boosh baby's, and that he didn't give any female foreign dignitaries a shoulder rub.

[1932]

19. Do you believe everything Fox News tells you?

[Redstone]

34. If you have any more stupid, unfounded accusations you want to make,

I'll be right here.

Redstone

[1932]

42. Which one wasn't founded? Tell me and I'll found it for you.

[Redstone]

47. Show me exactly where I said any of those things, is all.

Redstone

[barb162]

52. How do you know what Redstone watches? Are you psychic?

[1932]

58. I know that Redstone's comment sounds very familiar.

and I know where I've been hearing it.

But, so long as Redstone isn't willing to post anything more than opinion, nobody will know the logical arc of his thoughts.

[Redstone]

67. My comments are my own opinions. I don't watch television.

So accuse me of being anyone's puppet if you want to.

I don't give a red rat's ass, because I know the truth.

And I don't make unfounded accusations against other people. Only those of weak intellect do that.

Redstone

[Redstone]

60. Apparently so.

Redstone

[rockymountaindem]

66. The posts are coming from inside the house!!!

Ahhhhh!

All this BS about Redstone is insane. As someone said above, Redstone is one of the good guys.

[Redstone]

74. The trolls dig deep, don't they? Thanks for your comment.

Redstone

[Clarkie1]

20. It is a shame. The Venezuelan peoople deserve better. nt

[1932]

27. Venezuelans are very satisfied with their government and with their

democracy.

2005 Latinobarómetro Poll Results:

Venezuela a Democratic Bright Spot in Latin America
Much has been made of the 2005 survey results from Chilean polling firm Latinobarómetro. The annual
poll, based on 20,000 face-to-face interviews in 18 Latin American countries, found this year that enthusiasm
for Democratic governments has declined throughout the hemisphere, a result of regional dissatisfaction with
liberalized economies that have failed to decrease poverty, and rising crime rates that have created fear in
many urban areas.

The country that has resisted this regional trend the most is Venezuela. This year, Latinobarómetro found
that Venezuelans tend to be far more optimistic about their economy than other nations, less turned off by the
political process, and more likely than most other Latin Americans to be happy with the direction their
country is headed. Whats more, more people in Venezuela consider their country "totally democratic" than
any other nation in Latin America.

Latinobarómetro, has conducted similar country-by-country surveys for the past decade, and is widely
recognized as the leading multi-country public opinion polling firm in Latin America. The full report is
available at www.Latinobarometro.org.

http://www.rethinkvenezuela.com/downloads/Latinobar.pdf#search=%22venezuelans%20satisfied%20with%20their%20democracy%22

[Union Thug]

24. I don't think so. I have more respect for him now than ever...

The man calls an ass an ass. I sure wish our Democratic so-called 'leaders' would follow suit.

[Zorra]

31. The lunatic actually had the audacity to give poor folks in the US

low cost heating oil, and plans to do it again.

Everyone knows that only an anti-fascist freak would stoop that low.

Obviously, Chavez hates us for our freedom.

[Redstone]

36. Once more, please show me where I actually said any of that.

...anyone?

(Sounds of crickets...)


Redstone

[Zorra]

72. "another irrelevant, two-bit tinpot South American blowhard."

Well, you didn't actually call him a lunatic, or mention that he gave low cost heating oil to the poor, but

"another irrelevant, two-bit tinpot South American blowhard." might be considered unreasonable considering that he is giving economically underprivileged folks in the US low cost heating oil, and just made a blatant announcement to the entire world, in an international venue, that, basically, Bu*h is a dangerous fascist. Not to mention that Chavez is a little irritated because Bu*h would like to have him assassinated, and has already tried to help overthrow his government. Did I mention that he stole the Presidency of the US, lied our country into a unjust war, and is dismantling our Constitution? etc.

So maybe Chavez was actually pretty justified in his remarks, and not really too far off the mark in calling Bu*h the "devil". But I believe "satanic", meaning "extremely evil or cruel", may have been more accurate.

So please excuse the sarcasm, but IMO, fascists like Bu*h do not deserve any of the the niceties of diplomatic protocol whatsoever, and rather than diss Chavez for speaking the truth, maybe those who pretend to be so offended at what they already know to be true should just acknowledge that Chavez spoke truly.

[Redstone]

75. The one does not have anything to do with the other.

Redstone

[barb162]

43. I think this is a very nice thing he is doing. If it helps poor people

here or any other country, fine with me! It does point out that we don't do enough for the poor in this country. I don't see him as a lunatic and I just suppose you are using sarcasm with that. No need to respond

[leesa]

37. Only in loony toons United States. The rest of the world takes him very

seriously. He treates the US with no respect because we don't deserve any.

[ClassWarrior]

39. Yup. Some people just gobble up the manure the RW spoon feeds them.

NGU.

[Vidar]

38. Sorry you feel that way, Redstone. I think Chavez is daring bullets to

say what might merely cost our cowardly politicians a few negative headlines. Shame on Clinton, Rangel & Pelosi!

[mmonk]

68. I support Chavez for standing up and saying something.

I'm glad he pointed our Chomsky's book for at least it might get someone starting to check out their assumptions. Do I think Hugo gave an outstanding speech? No, not really. But maybe it will also make people here in the US at least wonder why he was applauded and wonder if there is something to the almost unanimous distaste for this country's leadership. And by the way, Redstone, you're entitled to your opinion on Chavez. I understand how the speech comes off in its appearance. I'm just glad he did it and if it makes the light turn on for just one person, it was worth it.

[Rex]

70. I doubt that.

nt

[goodhue]

73. He is making a lot of sense on Travis Smiley at the moment

No parody that I can see