Iraqi poets have called it: Their Country is Finished

[beachmom]

There is an Iraqi poem making the rounds in Arabic. Iraqi blogger The Kid translated it. OUR TROOPS NEED TO BE WITHDRAWN. If Iraqis are saying "Fuck Iraq", then it's over. None of our soldiers should be the last man to die for a mistake.

This poem breaks the heart really, as it is the ultimate self loathing of one's own country I have ever read. It tells us just how bad things are there:

http://ejectiraqikkk.blogspot.com/2006/12/to-iraq-with-love.html

"To Iraq With Love"

Fuck Iraq, the country in which we were raised
No comfort have we seen, never we were at peace
never like normal people, never we were at ease
A whirlwind of misery, bitterness and disease
So Fuck Iraq, The country of which you are so pleased
Fuck Iraq, and fuck every part of this crap
Like a large wooden boat which has long lost its map
Like a blind man with chopped legs and arms snapped
It cannot stand up, forever falling on its face
so Fuck Iraq, the country in which we were born and raised

Fuck Iraq, fuck its people and its land
I don't want anymore of its plegdes and commands
A people that are and ruled by thieves, bandits and gangs
Nobody lifts his finger, but yet everyone demands
So fuck the country of the two rivers and sand
Fuck Iraq, fuck its north and its south
Not an image has remained and not even a shambling poster
Every inch of its cloth is ragged and wretched
Like a beggar awaiting rain with a dirty, open mouth
Fuck Iraq, the country which never did I doubt

Fuck Iraq and fuck these goddamn Kurds
Sunnis and Shiites fight while Baghdad is burned
Donkeys who bray about history and its mirth
Like an Ostrich which buried its head in the earth
Oh FUCK the country in which we've been given birth

Fuck this country, which America gnarled and ate
And now everybody wants a share of the cake
Raise your glasses, the loot is at stake
And when the strong falls, the prey becomes the snake
Fuck this country in which we were born and raised
Fuck Iraqis, who failed the Imam alive
but after he's long passed, they mourn for their own crime
His son bought their words, they fled in time of might
Only the iron fits us, so let Saddam feed us shite
So please fuck this country may it get out of my sight

Now before anyone opines that this is just one Iraqi and he doesn't speak for everyone; well, I have found in the past, that these Iraqi bloggers have been ahead of the curve. The dismantling of the country will commence soon.

[RaleighNCDUer]

1. That is beyond sad.

I hope we may never wind up saying the same about our country.

[beachmom]

2. This is what happens when you go into a country not knowing

a damn thing, promise the world, and then commit one fuck up after another.

[OzarkDem]

3. I don't think we're responsible

Iraq has created most of its own problems and failed its own people. Its truly a tragic situation for the people who live there and the US invasion hasn't helped, but only made the situation worse. But a country that insists on governing itself according to a radical religion is always going to be filled with hate, ancient grudges, conflict and strife. Truly sad for the young people who live there.

[beachmom]

4. Iraq was controlled by a butcher dictator who was secular

However, I do agree that America is not responsible for all of Iraq's age old problems. However, we poured gasoline on them and gave them a match. That's the role we played there.

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. We also lit the match.

I will always believe the bombing of the Golden Mosque, which really kicked off the sectarian violence, was an occupation black op - the Sunnis and the Shi'ites were beginning to work together against the occupation; the Iraqis were actively combatting the 'foreign fighters', not with government forces but their own militias. They were uniting in ways we didn't like, then suddenly someone (and no one ever took 'credit' for it) bombed the Golden Mosque and the militias attention turned away from the occupation forces and Al Queda, and toward each other.

Now, it's a failed state.

[beachmom]

8. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

I do not believe what you are saying for a second. God, your post breaks my heart as much as the poem did -- that you think OUR PEOPLE would blow up such a holy place for the Shi'ites and ignite a civil war on purpose. No way.

[Karenina]

13. It wouldn't be the first thing

YOUR PEOPLE have blown up. ;-)

[beachmom]

15. Not a holy historical site. nt

[Ms. Clio]

19. Do you know that the Lakota Sioux consider the Black Hills to be a "holy historical site?"

and Mount Rushmore to be a revolting desecration?

[beachmom]

21. Well, I'd say the entire Shi'ite world and all ancient historians

know that Samarra is a holy site, and with the advent of television and the internet, this would absolutely NOT be an operation the Americans could do with the risk of getting caught.

Unbelieveable what you guys think of your own country. Yes, bad things have been done in our name, but only with proof, would I believe these outrageous charges.

[Ms. Clio]

22. So I guess it's okay that the U.S. destroyed the Lakota Sioux's holy historical site?

That would be different, how, precisely? And anybody who points out that inconvenient fact is an "America hater?"

There were several stories in MSM media about the Negroponte-style death squads in Iraq -- google it for yourself. I'm tired of doing everyone's research for them.

[beachmom]

34. No, I am asking for CONCRETE evidence that the Americans

bombed the Samarra Shrine, because, you see, there is NONE. I am well aware of the Death Squads article in Newsweek and Negroponte's past history. However, that's not what you're saying -- you're charging OUR COUNTRY with a crime in 2006 (not during the Indian Wars, for God's sake) that would be EXPLOSIVE, if true. That bombing led to the deaths of THOUSANDS of Iraqis and has sparked a full scale civil war. So before you or others in this thread start leveling charges, you BETTER get your links and evidence together. Otherwise, you're just blowing hot air and embarrassing yourself.

[Ms. Clio]

35. please see post #31

I'm assuming that information from an Iraqi is adequate? What he reports certainly sounds rather suspicious, does it not?

[Karenina]

24. :sigh:

:eyes:

[beachmom]

26. Sigh what? What evidence have YOU or anyone in this thread

brought of Americans blowing up the Samarra shrine.

I'm waiting . . .

[karlrschneider]

39. Well, "our people" bombed the shit out of a city of 8 million...

destroyed Falluja, etc. etc., what's one more mosque in the mix?

[Ms. Clio]

45. Fallujah is (was?) called "The City of Mosques"

yes, there were no compunctions about destroying that city and its holy historical sites.

[karlrschneider]

46. Sure. I can't figure out how anybody who sees the fact "we" invaded

and occupied a sovereign country based on lies and have killed many thousands, finds it hard to believe
"we" wouldn't indulge in a bit of black ops there...
:eyes:

[beachmom]

47. Stick to criticizing the invasion and the Battle of Fallujah, then.

Those events are true. But just leveling charges without evidence is what irks me. And, yes, the Samarra shrine was the WORST thing to happen since Fallujah. It was on 2/22/06, and it is a day that will live in infamy for the Iraqi people, as will the invasion date. Iraqis have been dying at a higher rate ever since that bombing.

[Ms. Clio]

17. there was evidence at the time to suggest it was a sophisticated operation

It did, of course, occur more than a year after the initial reports that the Pentagon was considering using Negroponte-style death squads in Iraq.

[beachmom]

28. You mean, like maybe Ba'athist or al Qaeda sophisticated?

I mean, that's your EVIDENCE? And ONE article in Newsweek. That's ALL you've got for charging Americans with such a crime?

[Ms. Clio]

31. It was more than one article in Newsweek -- several reports were published

Some have been reposted here recently. Search on NNN0LHI's recent posts.

As for the Samarra bombing, here is an Iraqi, if you bother to consider his information about the matter as any type of evidence:

Samarra Attack, the Last Straw? Part 2

(snip)

The timing of this incident is very ominous. Just as pressure was being mounted on the UIA to form a more inclusive government, and to disband its sectarian militias, we have this. I normally don’t resort to conspiracy theories, and I don’t like the ‘Who gets to benefit from this?’ explanations. People often commit stupid actions for stupid reasons, and lashing out in violence is also a very human reaction. But still, the extent and the spontaneity of the violence are deeply troubling.

Eyewitnesses and relatives from Samarra claim that American and Iraqi Interior ministry forces blocked the main street leading to the shrine at 9 pm on the night preceding the blast. It was opened again at dawn Wednesday and the troops pulled out of the area. The two blasts occurred at 6:40 and 6:45 am according to residents, while the official statement from Interior minister, Baqir Solagh has them around 7:50 and 8 am. The details on the operation are also very vague. Some sources say there was a force of 35 guards in the shrine, but there were only 4 or 5 that morning. The number of attackers has fluctuated between 4 and 15 armed men, one of them dressed in military uniform and the rest in black. PM Ja’fari mentioned yesterday that preliminary investigations pointed to ‘infiltration’ of the police, but he has not given any further details since. No word on the 10 suspects that were supposed to have been arrested yesterday either.

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/archives/2006_02_01_healingiraq_archive.html#114081182225025432

[beachmom]

36. I read Zeyad, and if you notice, he refers to it as "conspiracy

theory" that is interesting. Gee, considering that Iraqi police and forces have been commonly infiltrated by sectarian partisans that's not exactly earth shattering. Sorry, I read that when it happened and it most certainly did not convince me that the Americans bombed the Samarra shrine.

But if you feel so strongly about it, then contact somebody in Congress who has the authority to investigate this, and ask them to do so.

I'm looking for smoking guns, not heresy on Iraqi message boards (which is where Zeyad gets his info).

[Ms. Clio]

you are mischaracterizing what he actually says

let's repeat: "Eyewitnesses and relatives from Samarra claim that American and Iraqi Interior ministry forces blocked the main street leading to the shrine at 9 pm on the night preceding the blast."

Interesting that you are so eager to promote the "Iraq is finished" poem that started this thread while this blogger's report of eyewitness testimony is dismissed as "hearsay."

Especially in light of the links at that poet-blogger's page and the information downthread about Pajamas Media. He doesn't link to Riverbend or the blog I have been citing, for example. I wonder why?

[beachmom]

38. Well, a GENERAL feeling of despair is quite different from

SPECIFIC charges of bombing the Samarra shrine. And even there, where does it say that Americans bombed the shrine?

[Ms. Clio]

42. Did anybody say they did?

or did they let it/encourage it to happen? I don't claim to know; I just think there are certain pieces of information that raise red flags.

[beachmom]

41. Sorry, you misunderstand -- Iraq the Model is the Pajamas Media

site. It is for sure a right wing hack site -- I think we would be in complete agreement about that. That's what the poster was referring to. The Kid, OTOH, did a full swoop smackdown of the RW hack site and the entire Iraqi blogosphere went into a flurry, because they normally don't fight amongst themselves. But, the general consensus among Iraqi bloggers, was that ITM was full of shit, and was just catering to Americans in the Green Zone. Hope that explains it better.

[RaleighNCDUer]

52. I didn't specify Americans - I, obviously, have no solid

prosecutable information. Just circumstancial evidence. But you do remember the Brits that were caught in Basra in civilian clothes, driving an unmarked vehicle loaded with explosives? How the British military then busted them out of the Iraqi prison before they could be brought up on charges, and spirited them out of the country?

What were they, if not a black-ops squad? And if the Brits are doing that in the south, what makes you think the Americans aren't doing it elsewhere?

I don't want to believe that our government would hold Ameican citizens in total isolation, violating the constitution in innumberable ways, but there's Jose Padilla. Just because I don't want to believe it does not mean it's not happening.

The bad guys are in charge.

[beachmom]

18. The Wahabbis did it -- they think the Shi'ites are as bad as the

Americans. Just read Zarqawi's writings. Geez -- sometimes the simplest explanation for something is the right one. Enough with conspiracy theories when you have ZERO evidence to prove your explosive charges.

[EFerrari]

7. I don't understand how you can say that we don't bear

the lion's share of responsibility. Saddam was our creature. We installed him. Then, we imposed sanctions that caused how many children to starve to death? This invasion is just the latest crime we've committed against those people.

[beachmom]

10. Well, don't forget the Ottomans and the Brits if you're going to

start blaming outside forces. And what about the Mongols who sacked Baghdad?

[Bluerthanblue]

51. one would hope that 'we' who call ourselves

the 'best' nation on earth, wouldn't be classed among the imperialist, bloodthirsty, and greedy nations you are citing-

Personally, learning how deceitful and manipulative secretive factions within America have acted in the past- "Operation Northwoods" for example- Iran/Contra- the 2000 election- doesn't inspire in me, the kind of innocent trust in the 'goodness' of those who are able to get their hands on power that can do many bad things to benefit the few, that you seem to have been able to hold onto.

Wish I believed otherwise- I wish there were no reasons to doubt- but what I have learned about the corruption, special interest-morally bankrupt power mongers, has killed my trust, and jaded my view of the "American Way"- as geo. carlin used to say : "I always thought "Truth" and "Justice" were the American way."

http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/070906_false_flag.html

Cheney has justified atrocities against nations who have had the misfortune of being located upon land that sits upon 'black gold/death' - we don't 'own' the world. And when we fund the CIA and other entities without ANY 'accountability' to the American people- we invite not only suspicion, but corruption.

[Ms. Clio]

14. "a country that insists on governing itself according to a radical religion" ???

Iraq was a secular country, and prior to the first Gulf War, had a large and thriving middle class.

Anybody who wants to believe the U.S. is not directly responsible for the situation in Iraq today is a history denier of monumental proportions.

[Ignacio Upton]

16. Iraq was created arbitrarily by the British out of three Ottomon province

Whereas the United States consensually formed itself. In that sense, Iraq is a "artificial" state.

[Ms. Clio]

20. yes, "consensually formed itself" except for the native peoples and black slaves

Every state is artificial, the U.S. is no exception.

[Ignacio Upton]

23. Well, out of those who had the "right" to create a nation-state

While Native Americans and blacks, sadly were excluded from being classified as "citizens" until much later in history.

[Ms. Clio]

25. women didn't have any rights in the matter, either

the original "nation" was an artificial and extremely limited creation that also usually limited the vote to property-owners.

[beachmom]

29. Just like the rest of Europe was at the time.

You act like America was evil while everyone else was pure and good. Slavery was a fact at the advent of our country, but people came to find it immoral and we had a war about it. Women eventially got the right to vote, but we got it in America quicker than other European countries.

America is an idea, an ideal we wish to live by. It is right to point out where we have failed in the past, but making charges based on no evidence is beyond the pale. Sounds like something the far Right would do.

[Ms. Clio]

32. If America is an ideal, then why do you care what Europe was doing?

Sorry you can't stand a more nuanced version of history -- it must really bother you to learn that I teach college students to hate America, too.

[beachmom]

37. Interesting -- where did I ever say "hate America" in any of my posts?

That's a right wing phrase which I am not interested in using. But it does appear that you are ONLY interested in what has gone wrong in American history. I sure hope your class amounts to more than "We killed the Indians and destroyed their holy sites". That is a part of our history but it is hardly the whole story.

If you think that I am not aware of "nuanced" history, then that is unfortunate, because it's not true. But you're talking about 19th century stuff while I'm discussing 2006. And you leveled charges that have not been corroborated, and that makes me angry. The Bush administration has done enough that we can PROVE to be running around accusing them of crimes not proven to be committed.

[Ms. Clio]

40. "Unbelieveable what you guys think of your own country"

Yes, for some reason I interpreted that as a statement that I think very badly of, i.e., "hate" America. Clearly an error on my part. You really meant that I was a great patriot.

Like Operation Phoenix in Vietnam (the Google is your friend) the true depths of what we have done in Iraq will not be known for years.

[beachmom]

43. I am also aware of the terrible things that happened in Vietnam

And yeah, it is unbelieveable that you jumped to conclusions that the Americans were behind the Samarra shrine bombing without any concrete evidence. That you would AUTOMATICALLY suspect Americans instead of, say, al Qaeda, or Iranians or former Ba'athists who I would say would be on the short list of suspects. That's what rubs me the wrong way.

By nature, I am a skeptic. But my "Iraq is finished" post is about the general feeling of the Iraqi people -- that by events on the ground, the behavior of the "leaders" of the various factions, and postings by Iraqi bloggers like that devastating poem, there doesn't seem to be much passion for one Iraq.

Of course, one could read the right wing hack site Iraq the Model and believe otherwise; but since he's been shouted down by the entire Iraqi blogosphere, I tend to believe the likes of Zeyad and The Kid and a few others.

And just as an aside, Iraqis are notorious conspiracy theorists, so that's why that Zeyad post you referred to struck me as interesting but no smoking gun. We need a lot more evidence than that.

Like I said, I encourage you to ask Congress to look into it, if you are so sure the Americans committed such a crime.

[Ms. Clio]

44. So you understand death squads & their divide and conquer purpose and so forth

but think that somehow somebody would draw the line at the bombing of a mosque to further those same ends?

It wasn't Iranians or al-Qaeda or former Baathists who were on the scene THE NIGHT BEFORE THE BOMBING.

[beachmom]

49. And where is there corroborating evidence that Americans were there?

And then that they left, and that THEY did the bombing? Is this something that a reputable news gathering agency objectively speaking would run? Or is it just you thinking out loud?

Has anyone done a serious story (other than the Arab media who blames us and "Zionists" for everything) on what you are supposing?

Because despite your inferences, you're just speculating. You've got, nothing. Just "well, they did it before".

And sometimes there is naivete on OUR side (the left) about what the Iranians are capable of. Still, I think the Wahabbis are the most likely, since they hate the Shi'ites so much.

In case people didn't know, the Iraqi government charged a couple of individuals who they said were al Qaeda of the crime who "confessed". Now I'm not naive enough to think that a tortured confession (because you know that's what they did) means the case is closed.

But if this was the grand American plan to win in Iraq, it was a big giant disaster!! It sparked a civil war, which the administration still denies is happening, and has led more people than ever to be against the war and for the Congress to change hands.

[Ms. Clio]

50. it only looks like a disaster to us, and, of course, the Iraqis

it looks like a bonanza to Halliburton, and 100,000 private contractors.

I'm taking an Iraqi and his sources seriously, and putting that information together with other sources, like the articles about the death squads and articles by Dahr Jamail and Robert Fisk and others. Yes, I'm just thinking out loud -- that's what we do here, isn't it? And "well, they did it before" is vitally important history, so I'm at a loss to understand why you think U.S. actions in previous wars are irrelevant to this discussion.

If the goal was always partition into 3 weak and squabbling states (divide and conquer) then obviously a civil war with ethnic cleansing fits right into the plan.

De Facto Partition Takes Hold in Iraq
By HAMZA HENDAWI
Associated Press Writer

December 3, 2006, 7:07 PM EST
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-partitioning-iraq,0,622606.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines

I just don't understand why you could argue that a war based SOLELY on lies and oil and global aggression would not also potentially include this type of amoral and cynical activity as well. The people who started this war don't have any scruples whatsoever.

[RaleighNCDUer]

53. not to mention the people of the southwest, whose lands were

stolen from Mexico during the Mexican American War. Or those Mexican citizens who lived in the Gadsen Purchase territories, who woke up one day to find themselves in America instead of Mexico.

but that is off-topic.

we now return to our previously scheduled debate.

[madrchsod]

5. many of the iraqi bloggers have left iraq

and have moved to jordan or the usa. there are a few left that report from iraq but they are under constant threat that they maybe found out who they are.

[beachmom]

11. Oh, yes -- The Kid is now in Jordan. Many Iraqi bloggers are there

Zeyad is in NYC. Iraq the Model is still in Baghdad (they're the right wing hack site), but I'm presuming they have American friends in high places who help them out from time to time (Omar and Mohammed met with Bush in the WH in '04). I am largely offended by ITM's posts and usually dismiss them as propaganda; however, I do fear for their lives as they are in danger.

[madrchsod]

33. not a lot of iraqi bloggers like him either

anyone who works for pajama media is a right winger.did you know the guy who runs pm is the founder of little green footballs? i also read these sites regularly

http://neurotic-iraqi-wife.blogspot.com/
neurotic Iraqi wife

http://twentyfourstepstoliberty.blogspot.com/
24 Steps to Liberty

http://astarfrommosul.blogspot.com/
A Star from Mosul

[MazeRat7]

9. Sad, but on the positive... at least they still "have" poets.... -nt

[beachmom]

12. Exactly -- they also have bloggers even if most of them are out of

the country now. They need to keep talking even if it's communicating a sense of hopelessness and despair.

[ContraBass Black]

27. If it was written in Arabic, why does it rhyme in English?

Is it a direct translation, or an artistic translation?

[beachmom]

30. Here is what The Kid said about that:

This is a poem I received yesterday, I made some modifications here and there. I'm not much a poetic spirit so I translated it as I see fit, sometime sticking to meaning but occasionally trying to rhyme, I hope the meaning was kept intact.



Go to the link to see the original Arabic.

[Bluerthanblue]

48. what this says to me is

fuck those who will stop at nothing to get what they want-

That isn't something unique to Iraq- though without question it is being graphically and horribly demonstrated and concentrated there- as it is in Somalia, and Darfur, and Haiti, and......

Fuck greed, oil, selfishness, despotism, hunger, grotesque wealth, fear, manipulation, power without conscience, apathy, abuse, hypocrisy, disease, ......... the worst of human.."kind".