CNN: Helicopter was Shot Down in Baghdad. They are 'leaning' toward this conclusion.

[spanone]

'They' being the U.S. Military.

If they are 'leaning' I'm sure they have already 'leaned'.

Parsing words if ever I've heard words parsed.

[acmavm]

1. Trying to fudge reality hoping no one notices.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

2. No surprise there, huh? Keeping it hushed up before the SOTU. n/t

MKJ

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. strange situation

on one hand, admitting that they are vulnerable to ground fire is bad for all future flights.
on the other, admitting that our machines are breaking down from overuse and lack of parts, is to admit that our time there is limited.

a catch 22, if I ever saw one.

[Kagemusha]

6. Somalia proved you could shoot Blackhawks down obviously.

That was with mere RPG's. It had never been done before. Helicopters hadn't been putting themselves in situations like that much before, by which I mean cities full of RPG's.

Now obviously, this one doesn't sound like it was stationary/ hovering during an airmobile operation. But Blawkhawks are far from invulnerable in reality, no matter what the US military wants to pretend. It's mostly a matter of if the enemy brings the right tools for the right job, and is competent, lucky, or both.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

9. I was referring to IraqNam, but you are correct.

What if Russia and China thought that US being stuck in a quagmire were a good thing, and that they thought that supplying hi tech weapons would be in their own interests, if they could do it secretly?

[TahitiNut]

13. Shoulder-mounted ground-to-air has gotten fairly common.

The arms market is clearly full of such weaponry ... and ANY 'friendly' broker would be able to get them.

[TahitiNut]

12. Whether or not it's admitted, it seems to clearly indicate a targeting change.

It would seem to me that a "surge" accompanied by an in-country redeployment focusing on Baghdad 'pacification' will necessarily fill the skies of Iraq with helicopters, especially in and around Baghdad. (After all, those damned IEDs make truck convoys dangerous, right? So, they use choppers more.) This is OBVIOUS to the 'insurgents' ... a part of the daily reality of a combat zone. They WILL adapt to it.

I'm viewing it as an intentional refocusing. I predict that the 'insurgents' will become notably more expert (and well-equipped) in targeting aircraft. Look for more of this.

[peekaloo]

4. NBC was tip toeing around this scenario last night.

Their reporter's grim look made it seem he knew more than he could say. :-(

[spanone]

5. My cynicism tells me they know. Of course, they know.

This is why the NYTIMES reported that they didn't include their normal 'there's no indication that hostile fire was involved' when they released the story.

They know, they knew, they will have known.IMHO

[Longhorn]

14. We heard on NPR yesterday that a witness said the helicopter was shot down

by a ground-fired missile but that it was unconfirmed. Later I heard that the military was reporting that it "may" have been mechanical. I got angry then because I knew that the military also could have stated that it "may" have been shot down. They're hoping that by the time they state what really happened, we won't care any more. :shrug:

[spanone]

15. CNN just updated their report: Military is still investigating.

Maybe by what, say, uh, Wednesday we may get a better picture of this????

[spanone]

7. Sometimes I really do miss comedian Sam Kinison

He'd probably be screaming, 'they were shot down because they were IN A FUCKING WAR ZONE, WHERE PEOPLE FUCKING KILL EACH OTHER.'

[bluerum]

8. Eggszaktly. nt

[ChairmanAgnostic]

10. Lewis Black can do that, too.

[spanone]

11. I'm a LB fan too, but no one can quite do it like Sam. IMO.