Boy, 12, Sticks Gum on $1.5M Painting

[bluestateguy]

A little jail time for this kid would not be a bad thing. Somebody needs to be punished here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/28/AR2006022801235.html

The Associated Press
Tuesday, February 28, 2006; 7:40 PM

DETROIT -- A 12-year-old visitor to the Detroit Institute of Arts stuck a wad of gum to a $1.5 million painting, leaving a stain the size of a quarter, officials say.

The boy was part of a school group from Holly that visited the museum on Friday, officials say. They say he took a piece of Wrigley's Extra Polar Ice gum out of his mouth and stuck it on Helen Frankenthaler's "The Bay," an abstract painting from 1963.

The museum acquired the work in 1965 and says it is worth about $1.5 million.

The gum stuck to the painting's lower left corner and did not adhere to the fiber of the canvas, officials told the Detroit Free Press. But it left a chemical residue about the size of a quarter, said Becky Hart, assistant curator of contemporary art.

more

[benburch]

1. Juvie hall for this miscreant. A year or so would do it. nt

[dysfunctional press]

7. he's 12...

a year in juvie seems pretty steep.

btw, this is for all the gum chewing slobs who throw their used gum on the sidewalks/street- knock it off! -you're worse that the idiots who throw their cigarette butts evrywhere- i've never gotten a ciggy butt stuck to the bottom of my shoe...next time that you're walking around downtown in any major city(except singapore) take a look at the sidewalk- see all those black spots...? those were all once pieces of gum in some ignorant cow's mouth.

[theHandpuppet]

8. 12 is old enough to know better

And my parents would have made sure I wouldn't even THINK of doing something as ignorant as that.

[dysfunctional press]

10. that depends a lot on the upbringing, actually.

and i didn't say that it wasn't wrong for him to do it- just that a year in juvie- at age 12- especially if he doesn't have a "record"(which the article doesn't indicate either way) is way too harsh, considering the offense.

[Earth_First]

15. Our daughter (age 7) asked me the other day what all those "spots" were

I gave her a small rant on the same subject. She thought it was very gross.

[AnneD]

127. In Singapore....

he might get caned. Some punishment is in order. He damaged valuable property (they don't give a possible restoration cost). Twelve years old is old enough to know better.

This was the act of someone acting up to show off. If I dispensed justice, he would get community service time every Saturday for 8 hrs( for at least 2 yrs) cleaning in the museum and scraping off gum on all surrounding surfaces (including outside). While cleaning he will have to wear a shirt stating his offense. Several letters of apology are in order too. Failure to comply would result in juvenile detention and/or court supervision for 4-6 years.

[DFLer4edu]

155. You're been reading the Scarlet Letter

[derby378]

154. 12 years of living? 12 months in juvvie...

What a stupid thing for him to do.

[AngryAmish]

17. No, cut off a hand

After all, venting on this issue makes me feel superior.

[benburch]

19. So, you'd rather explain his error to him...

...and send him on his way?

[dysfunctional press]

21. pretty much-

he's 12.

[theHandpuppet]

31. Oh yeah, that'll do the trick

Naughty boy! Don't do that again.

[dysfunctional press]

35. the choice of discipline is up to the parents-

not you or i.

[joeunderdog]

65. The owners of the painting should have a say, shouldn't they?

I guess I'd wanna know if this kid is just a jerk or was he just a stupid kid trying to be funny? That part would matter to me as far as how to handle it.

If he's known to be a jerk, then the kid should be doing community service til he's 18 since he won't be able to re-pay the owners what value they lost on the damage. How about doing 10 h/w cleaning the local youth center or the museum floors after school?

[dysfunctional press]

72. not really-

that's not how our justice system is supposed to work- the aggrieved are not the ones that mete out punishment.

[joeunderdog]

82. Niether are the parents.

I guess my point was that you can't just classify this as a "parenting" issue. Alot should go into this decision.

[Clark2008]

112. You're going to pay him that much?!

People down here make a living on $10 an hour WITH college degrees!!

:wow:

[theHandpuppet]

66. So what would you do if you caught a 12 year old...

... keying your car or spray painting graffiti on the side of your house? Or what if it was your 12 year old who was caught defacing priceless books or manuscripts in a library? How about the youthful indiscretion of vandalizing the graves of your loved ones at the local cemetary? At what point would you say he's old enough to know better? At what point can any of us expect that a 12 year old can accept some responsibility for his or her actions?

[dysfunctional press]

71. well- if i knew the kid, i'd go and talk to his parents.

if i didn't know the parents, and the kid took off running, i'd probably just shake my head and call my insurance agent.

"...At what point can any of us expect that a 12 year old can accept some responsibility for his or her actions?"

when they turn 18.

[benburch]

75. So, we shouldn't be giving 16 year old kids drivers licenses any more? nt

[dysfunctional press]

81. not if i could help it.

i don't think that kids should get driver's liscences until age 18, or upon graduation from high school- whichever comes first.

[theHandpuppet]

83. You've got to be kidding

So if a sixteen year old beats up a homeless person, we shouldn't expect them to accept some responsibility for their actions? How about a 15 year old who commits rape? A fourteen year old who steals a car?

Wow, if we shouldn't expect kids to take any responsibility for their actions until they turn eighteen, I suspect it won't be long before that eighteen year old is standing before a judge.

[dysfunctional press]

92. then why can't 12 year olds sign legal contracts without a parent...?

or legal guardians co-signing?

apparently you think that they should be able to...?

[theHandpuppet]

96. Do you need a legal contract with your five year old

Before you teach him the difference between right and wrong, or discipline him for setting the cat on fire? Can we expect that if a 12 year old spits in a teacher's face he will likely face suspension and/or disciplinary action? Actions have consequences. If a child is not taught that aspect of responsibility and respect for others then no one is going to flip a switch when little Johnny turns 18 and say okay, NOW you're responsible when the concept hasn't been imprinted in his first 17 years.

I personally think juvie hall benefits no child, but community service is a viable alternative. There are 12 year olds in my community who do that without being asked. Of course, expecting that kind of behavior from a child is showing THEM respect as well.

[dysfunctional press]

103. last time i checked- 5 year olds aren't 12...neither are 16 year olds-

but hey, that might be different where you come from.

tha article is about a 12 year old in an art gallery- not a 16 year old rapist, or a 15 year old mugger.
the truth is you nor anyone else here knows anything more factual about this incident than what's in the article- we don't know what his home life is like, we don't know his socio-economic background, we don't know if it was a class of learning-disabled students, or a class of honor-rollees.
what we do know is that hte kid is 12. and he stuck gum to a painting.
everything else is assumptions.
he's 12. kids do stupid things without considering the consequences...that's why they're generally not held criminally responsible for non-violent acts- as it should be.

[theHandpuppet]

106. That is not a rebuttal to my post

Here it is again, in case you'd like to answer it:

Do you need a legal contract with your five year old before you teach him the difference between right and wrong, or discipline him for setting the cat on fire? Can we expect that if a 12 year old spits in a teacher's face he will likely face suspension and/or disciplinary action? Actions have consequences. If a child is not taught that aspect of responsibility and respect for others then no one is going to flip a switch when little Johnny turns 18 and say okay, NOW you're responsible when the concept hasn't been imprinted in his first 17 years.

I personally think juvie hall benefits no child, but community service is a viable alternative. There are 12 year olds in my community who do that without being asked. Of course, expecting that kind of behavior from a child is showing THEM respect as well.

[ISUGRADIA]

90. "up to the parents" I think they're probably a major part of this

punk's problem.

[dysfunctional press]

93. you're making a lot of assumptions, aren't you...?

how do you know he's a "punk", and not just some dumb kid that doesn't know any better? the article doesn't say anything about whether it was done maliciously.

[petronius]

104. I think there is a 0% chance

that a 12 year old can be in a museum and "not know any better" about sticking gum on the paintings. I'd say there is a clear failure of parenting, and perhaps a failure of the teachers in terms of supervision. You're right that the museum shouldn't get to decide the punishment, and the court should take the overall picture into account, but I do think the parents should be liable for damages...

[ISUGRADIA]

132. Most good parents teach kids how to behave

putting gum on paintings is usually pretty well understood to be a no-no by most oh, 12 YEAR OLDS. The kids not 4,5,6 the kid's 12. If he doesn't know better at that age he's either a J Delinquent, some kid doing a stunt or he had bad parenting. No way I can accept an "I didn't know putting gum on a painting is wrong" alibi.

[yppahemnkm]

109. Good point.

[AnneD]

130. It seems to me that he hasn't been disciplined by his parents...

which is why he felt free to deface property. I deal with kids all day long and see more and more of this. Parents have abdicated much of their responsibility. I see far to many homes where the kids are in charge. Any questions you have about a child is answered at your 1st open house.

Now by discipline, I don't mean beating up on a kid, I mean teaching kids what behaviour is EXPECTED and that misbehaviour has consequences. At an early age I taught my daughter to 'touch' with her eyes...not her fingers. We ate on good china and drank from crystal (in good restruants when I was a broke student) so she learned to experience it. I suffered through many fast food meals until we learned (Mexican and Chinese were most family friendly).

She learned to sit through movies and church service quietly by the age of 4 and is no stranger to museums. It didn't happen overnight, just like this incident with this boy.
The proof of the pudding came when we went to a department store and she wanted to go into the china shop. Of course, the clerk was terrified at the sight of a 5yr old. I quickly assured her I would assume responsibility for any damages and that my daughter would be no problem. Needless to say, she comported herself as she had been taught. The clerk even complimented her as we left (which made her feel grown up). And I did not just do this with her.... all my nephews went through Aunt Anne's school of good manners before my daughter was born. I had the same results with them.

edited to add that I single parented until she was 12 so being a single parent is no excuse for bringing up ill mannered kids.

[NuttyFluffers]

159. i just want to say thank you!

it is rare to get an opportunity to thank the people who instill good manners and empathy into the impressionable youth under their supervision. it's often a thankless job, but a job that is crucial to the fabric of polite society. when we learn to respect others and their things, and to feel their pain when suffering from a wrong, we find it that much harder to behave in a selfish and cruel manner. unlike all the pretty technological toys, humanity is the cornerstone of what it means to be civilized. it isn't something we are all born with, nor is it something that grows without proper cultivation -- we aren't born knowing how to consistently be good to each other. this is where good people who take up the responsibility to raise future good people become so important.

:loveya::toast:

[benburch]

36. While we are at it...

...buy him some ice cream for the trauma of being made such a FUSS over. :sarcasm:

[benburch]

34. I remember being 12.

I worked every day in the family business.

I was a Boy Scout.

I knew better than to vandalize other's property.

I knew that kids who vandalize property go to Juvie Hall. (Actually, it was a Farm here...)

[dysfunctional press]

39. and obviously all 12-year olds are exactly alike, as is their upbringing-

:eyes:

[benburch]

59. If his upbringing is that deficient...

...termination of parental rights might be in order, too.

[dysfunctional press]

79. maybe they can divorce him while he's in the stir...

:eyes:

[Scout1071]

60. Obviously, your opinion is in the minority.

We get it. You think a year is too long, even though you don't know any more of the facts than anyone else on this board. How do you know that he doesn't have a record already?

He's not a baby. He's a 12 year old boy. And I'm quite sure that he knew better. I'm not saying he deserves a year in juvenile hall, but he certainly deserves substantially more than just "a talking to."

[dysfunctional press]

78. i don't know if he has a record or not- neither does anyone else here-

and yet there are people saying he should be sent to juvie for a year for what is as far as they know, a first offense. the article also doesn't speak toward intent- was the kid trying to be malicious, or did he just not know any better...?

you say that you're quite sure that he knew better- but you don't know that for a fact, do you?

what if the kid has a learning disability...? it happened in detroit- i'm not from the area, so i can't say- but are there any pockets of poverty in the area...? the kind where kids might grow up undernourished and some parenting skills might be seriously lacking?

and that my opinion is in the minority doesn't change it...that's not how i determine what's wrong and right.

[Scout1071]

86. Fine. The kid shouldn't take any responsibility for what he's done./

The kid sounds like a typical asshole 12 year old. I don't know a single 12 year old (that isn't disabled) that wouldn't know that you shouldn't stick your damn gum on a painting in a museum.

Sorry. Sounds like the kid was being an asshole. And now he should pay the price.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dysfunctional press]

105. wow...

just...

wow.

[Scout1071]

108. No more insulting than your comment.

[annarbor]

110. I've got a 12 year-old boy....

and I can think of several of his classmates that would not know the severity of placing bubble gum on a painting in a museum....
All of them have good parents, and they're good kids overall. Kids do pretty dumb stuff and we being adults realize the severtiy of their acts much more than they do....
My 12 year still holds my hand and sometimes sleeps with his old teddy bear...far from being a grown up.

Yeah, all I can say is "Wow" too......


Ann Arbor

[Scout1071]

115. Well then, you must be an expert. Having an angel 12 year old and all.

Why don't you google a couple of terms like 12 year old + crime and see what you come up with.....

Just because you have a good kid, doesn't mean that all 12 year old kids are perfect angels. Some of them are idiots (see the story that started this thread). Some of them are a little bit of both. And some of them are downright criminal.

Most of them are decent kids. I never said that all 12 year old boys were bad kids. Never once. I did say that I've known many jerky 12 year old boys. I've also known some jerky 12 year old girls. They are "tweeners" and soon to be teenagers. It's their job to test the limits.

This kid pushed too far. And I call bullshit that your son's friends wouldn't know that it's wrong to stick their gum on a painting in an art museum. That is ludicrous.

[annarbor]

120. Never called my son an "Angel"...

I simply called him a "12 year old".
I've met several 12 year olds that have done dumb, jerky things.

And I don't need to do a Google search as I have come in contact with several kids that have committed crimes...petty crimes, and not-so petty crimes. In both cases, most all turned out to be good adults.

ann arbor-

[Scout1071]

122. And I bet they were all expected to face consequences.

Maybe you missed the point where I initially jumped in this thread. It was because the other poster said that he thought the boy just needed a "talking to."

I think that the consequences should be more severe - ie community service, etc.

There are consequences for actions. A 2 year old knows this and a 12 year old should certainly be aware.

[WinkyDink]

117. "not knowing the severity" isn't the POINT. How about keeping the

frickin' gum off, NO MATTER WHAT?

Of course, maybe some kids just never learned what a waste-basket is. Being only TWELVE and GOOD KIDS and all.

[hopeisaplace]

158. I'm on this side of the argument as well, I'm wowing with you..

I have an eleven year old (1 or 4 boys)...I consider myself an active parent in
my children's lives..and you parents out there know that parenting is joy-filled
at times and a ton of work at other times. I feel confident my child wouldn't do this,
BUT who's to say it couldn't happen - kids are simply kids and you're right, sometimes
they have NO IDEA of the severity of their actions. I totally totally get that, and
agree with you.

Yes, there needs to be discipline, but JAIL! that's insane. This child's entire life could
be ruined COMPLETELY - I rather have a ruined painting than a ruined child.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dysfunctional press]

94. and he's only 6 years from being 6

see- i can do math too!

so many malicious souls in here today...

parents- hide your children!

[Obamarama]

99. If you understood anything at all about child development you would know..

that six years away from six and six years away from 18 is not even close to an appropriate comparison. The point is the older we become, the quicker and farther we progress.

Try again.

[dysfunctional press]

107. and how is a 12 year old who sticks gum to a painting...

comparable to 16 year old rapist?

apples and elephants...

and if you understood anything about child development, you'd realize that not all children progress/develop/mature at the same rate, and not all children have identical home lives and experiences.

the formative years are for learning from your mistakes, and developing into a respectable and respectful adult

[theHandpuppet]

111. Now YOU'RE comparing apples and oranges

The hypotheticals regarding the age at which kids should be expected to take responsibility for their actions was a direct response to your own comment, which was:

"...At what point can any of us expect that a 12 year old can accept some responsibility for his or her actions?"

You: when they turn 18.

Stop trying to deflect the argument.

[AngryAmish]

25. Maybe make him spend an afternoon washing the floor there

The kid is 12. No, wait, mutilating him makes me feel better and superior.

[theHandpuppet]

32. You're the only one talking about corporal punishment here

So are you answering your own posts?

[benburch]

62. He seems to be fixated on violence.

Whereas I suggested a correctional institution where the goal is to make sure that this child grows into a young adult who does not re-offend.

You'd think I had suggested that we throw him into Alcatraz.

[alcibiades_mystery]

80. juvenile "correctional" institutions for a twelve year old?

Yeah, that doesn't include even the minute hint of violence...:eyes:

[benburch]

95. I am learning that they are not all like the one here...

which is horrible. There ought not be miniature versions of adult jails.

[annarbor]

116. Correctional Institution?????????

It's a painting!!!!
Malicious Destruction of Property by a 12 year-old does not warrant time in a correctional institution.

Do any of you people have children????

[benburch]

126. Two. Now adults. nt

[hopeisaplace]

160. I'm disgusted as well with the harshness of this thread...

Bush's detention centers could easily be filled up with kids based on this thread :sarcasm:

[Scout1071]

87. Nobody is talking about corporal punishmet, but he does deserve

a swift kick in the ass.

[alcibiades_mystery]

77. LOL: Excellent reply

The stupidities on this thread could themselves be accumulated to form a new work of art, to be called "The Small Judges."

A year in juvenile hall for this act? Ay yay yay. People really do need to build their spiteful little souls daily with such nonsenses.

[KittyWampus]

57. How about a caning? Isn't that what they do in Singapore?

[Renew Deal]

145. Aren't you the same guy that thinks prostitution should be legal?

Confused?

[Fridays Child]

2. A future Republican.

Sometimes, it's so easy to identify them.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

9. my thought precisely.

[valerief]

3. It's a metaphor for what the current admin is doing to all we value

We've been tainted by them and our international reputation has been devalued.

[skylarmae]

4. jail time and lots and lots of community service

and maybe someone needs to slap the parents with a fine for not teaching their 12 yr. old to have any more respect than this...

[HereSince1628]

5. Visitors puked on statues at the Milwaukee Art Museum.

ClearChannel threw an all you can drink martini party in the art museum...2000 people showed up, and drank too much with results that belong in alleys rather than gallerys.

What seems to be common here is that Museums assume that people will RESPECT their treasures and so they don't put them behind glass or moats.

That assumption seems to be misplaced.

[Solly Mack]

6. I'd charge his parents for the restoration

and make him do supervised work at the museum. Such as sweeping, mopping, dusting, cleaning the bathrooms...as well as make him take a course in art appreciation - then write a 5000 word essay on why what he did was incredibly ignorant, thoughtless, and destructive.

but that's just me

[Bridget Burke]

50. Yes. Let the kid actually learn something from his foolishness.

Often, valuable artworks are covered with plexiglas and/or surrounded by "fences" to keep folks away. I'd prefer to see them "as is"--with museum guards reminding you if you get too close. Usually a couple of feet away is OK.

[Solly Mack]

53. That was my thinking.

Since he obviously didn't know any better, teach him better.

But then, I used to be President of the community Art Council - so I *might* be biased. :)

[BoneDaddy]

11. Jesus Christ

I would have thought I was in the Freeper room with all the Crime and Punishment stupidity. After working in a middle school for many a year, 12 year olds are, as a group, not the most saavy collection of individuals who are typically, and may I add appropriately, immature and who do dumb things, they are kids.

It was stupid and he received the proper punishment, but some of you got to freaking relax. If this was a painting of Ronald Reagan or of GW Bush, you would be fucking applauding the kid.

[Nikki Stone 1]

37. Gotta agree with you, Bone Daddy

The junior high crowd is not known for being the most mature group of people on the planet. My problem is not with the 12-year olds, but with the 30-somethings that act 12.

[BoneDaddy]

63. so true

I hear ya on that one.

[annarbor]

123. Thank you!!!!

Finally a voice of reason!

Ann Arbor

[VOX]

138. Thanks, BD. I did some things when I was 12 that would have gotten me...

Tossed out of school (and possibly into juvenile hall), had I been caught. Rather than list the specific transgressions against physical property, let's just say that, even though I basically knew right from wrong at that age, I acted immaturely and with utter foolishness.

Although my parents, had they found out, would have nailed my fanny to the floorboards, my own sense of guilt was punishment enough.

12-year-old boys aren't known for their wisdom, that's for certain.

On edit: typos

[HeeBGBz]

146. To me, it's stupid to pay a million bucks for a painting anyway

How can a painting painted in '63 be worth that much?

How many people would that feed?

Kids do dumb shit. So do adults.

[Gman]

12. Beat him!

Severely!

sorry!

[magellan]

13. Jail time?! The kid is only 12 years old, for Christ's sake

"Holly Academy director Julie Kildee said the boy had been suspended from the charter school and says his parents also have disciplined him."

That's appropriate. Saying this child deserves jail time, and that his actions mark him as "a Republican in the making" as someone else suggests, is not. Were you all perfect little citizens at 12? If not, at what age did you lose your humanity that you could be so horrible about this boy's error in judgement?

Jeez louise.....

[LincolnMcGrath]

14. I call for public execution!

Not Really! lol

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Destroying or damaging property is not an "error in judgement"

This is not the first time he's done something destructive. Trust me. A kid doesn't just decide to do something like this unless he's been a little jerk way before.

Hopefully he'll get treatment so he won't go on to worse things in the future.

Although I'll try "error in judgement" next time I'm in trouble. Maybe "youthful indiscretion" could work too.

[magellan]

Are you 12?

Then yes, error in judgement and youthful indiscretion might work for you.

"This is not the first time he's done something destructive." You're so certain that for a moment I thought you knew the kid personally, because the article sure doesn't say that. Maybe you ought to leave the in absentia diagnosis to people like Frist and leave the rest up to his parents and the school, hm?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

147. I was 12 once.

And I certainly knew better than to leave gum stuck under a table, let alone on a painting. I understood the concept of other people's property. Hell, my 6 year old knows better, and he can't even tie his own shoes yet.

To absolve this kid is to say that he had NO IDEA the paintings were valuable (even though they're in a big building and they took a trip just to look at them), and that what he was doing was wrong. Out of nowhere, the kid just decides to stick his gum on a painting. I don't buy that. I don't think it was necessarily malicious, but it definitely isn't the action of a kid who has no previous behavior issues whatsoever.

At the age of 13, a child has pretty much developed his or her own baseline personality. And since it doesn't happen overnight, at 12 this kid didn't just decide on a whim to do something like this, unless he already has developed a tendency to behave in this way. In the same way a kid at 12 will not just suddenly become a bully, or dishonest, or what-have-you.

THAT is the point I was trying to make. I meant to say "This is PROBABLY not the first time..." so that was an error in typing, not judgement. :-)

However, I'm hopeful that this episode puts him on the right path. I'm not a big believer in "Scared Straight," but I think making national news might help.

[BoneDaddy]

64. how the hell do you know?

for someone who read the same passage as we did, unless you personally know this child, I would refrain from such bullshit. Obviously you don't have kids or work with them, cause if you did, you wouldn't rise to such judgements over one event.

You may be right, but I know plenty of really good kids and adults for that matter who do some stupid shit but are overwhelmingly good people.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

148. Oh, but I do have a kid.

He's 6. And by saying I "obviously" didn't have any kids, then you did exactly what you accused me of doing. So now I call on you to refrain from THAT sort of bullshit.

And my kid does act up on occasion, but I know for a fact that he will not just suddenly beat up another kid for no reason, for instance. It's not in his nature. And by the time he's 12 I'll have a better handle on his personality, because by that point his basic personality is pretty much set.

This kid is 12. Past behavior is an indicator of future behavior, and the idea that he was probably just a "little angel" before this is absurd. I knew better than to stick gum under a table, let alone on a wall or someone else's property. Property that was obviously important, otherwise why would they be taking a field trip to see it?

[Scout1071]

16. If that was my son, the headline would read:

"12 year old boy sticks gum to $1.5 million painting and receives mom's foot up his ass."

[benburch]

20. Amen.

But we live in the era of "entitlement parenting". :(

[xchrom]

22. see, my parents -- the most judicious and patient of people -- would have

beat my ass every day for a year for that!

:spank:

[benburch]

38. I hate to THINK what would have happened to me!

But I know that I would be hearing about it daily even now.

[sadiesworld]

18. Terrible, but funny.

[Robeson]

23. Sounds to me that some type of painting restoration would be in....

...order. I don't think this represents the downfall of youth in America. In fact, I'm sure the painting is insured, and all will be fine!

[malaise]

29. Not sure I agree with you

although the problem is global not American. I had a group of students in my office a week ago and the session chairman took a piece of gum out of his mouth and had it in his hand. I asked him why he didn't throw it in the garbage and he said he was going to stick it under my desk. A few people in the group were as shocked as I was, but certainly not the majority. Many youngsters are disgustingly anti-social these days.

[Robeson]

42. Perhaps so, but they can do wonders with painting restorations....

...now-a-days!

[theHandpuppet]

40. Do you have any idea how much restoration like that costs?

Who's going to pay for this youthful indiscretion? The insurance company? Oh well then, that makes it okay. Of course, all museum paintings are insured so if little Johnny wants to slash a da Vinci with his pocket knife, no worries!

[Robeson]

44. Then let's just hang little Johnny by the nearest yard-arm....

...or leathel injection could be more humane. But, never-the-less, I'm sure the 1.5 million dollar painting will be restored to good order.

[theHandpuppet]

54. Knee jerk much?

I don't think the kid should go to juvie but that he should at least be made to do some community service plus get grounded by his parents.
What I didn't appreciate was your flippant attitude towards the defacing of masterworks that simply cannot be replaced. This isn't like a scratch on the friggin' side of a car. All part of an attitude of this "disposal" society, I guess. Destroy something? Just get a new one. I know -- my neighbor's kids do it all the time.

[Robeson]

58. "Knee jerk much"?......

...three words: pot meet kettle.

I have no doubt the juvenile court system will deal with "little Johnny". He will be shammed, as will his parents. The painting will be repaired. And nothing will be disposed of.

[dysfunctional press]

48. a quarter-size spot of chemical residue, & the canvas is not damaged...?

i dunno- maybe 12 gabillion dollars?

:eyes:

[BoneDaddy]

67. if it is so freaking valuable

why the hell isn't it under glass, I mean shit happens in life people. What if it wasn't gum but a patron, who had the flu, vomitted on it. Would you be saying the same thing or would you be saying the stupid people who run the joint should have done something better to protect it.

[ISUGRADIA]

88. Oh yeah, blame the victim

_they_ should of had it under glass to protect it from little punk asses like this. And christ, how many people vomit up onto walls

[BoneDaddy]

128. The victim

This is the problem with these fucking boards, they are often frequented by the professional victims who want to "victimize" everything. It was a fucking piece of art worth 1.5 million dollars, fucking protect it. If I left something really valuable out without protection and it got damaged, it is my fault. Give me a break bro/sis.

[ISUGRADIA]

131. There are plenty of reasons that paintings are not put behind glass

for art appreciation purposes. So apparently the museum is at fault, not little punk ass who put gum on the painting. Same bizarre logic if I leave my car parked on the curb and some jackass break a window it's my fault. My building has a white wall and gets graffittied...my fault.

Maybe, just maybe the kid doesn't know how to behave in a public place and needs to be made an example of.

[BoneDaddy]

141. Made an example of...

ARe you fucking people Nazi's? He was suspended and received punishment from home but you want him to be made an example of? How bout we draw and quarter the little prick? Or cut off a hand? How bout we publicly cane him on national t.v.? What the fuck is up with people on this thread?

This is what OUTRAGES you fucknuts? Give me a break! This story annoys me, but doesn't outrage me. I can't believe that amount of power people give this and I cannot believe people are being so heavy on punishing this kid when:
1. They do not really know the child.
2. Are basing their harsh judgement on a known singular incident.
3. Are opting to go to extreme measures to punish a child.

I can't believe you folks could even fathom calling yourselves progressive or liberal for that matter.

[GreenArrow]

152. friend,

I could not have said this any better. This punitive crap is sickening, and a lot more disturbing to me than some snot-nosed kid's act of stupidity. Of course, this country does have the world's fullest jails, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[Batgirl]

151. excessively sprinkling your post with the f-word

does nothing to enhance the cloudiness of your "logic".

"It was a fucking piece of art worth 1.5 million dollars, fucking protect it. If I left something really valuable out without protection and it got damaged, it is my fault."

No one left anything "out without protection." Unless you don't include the fact of constructing a special building, staffed by curators and guards, specifically for the protection and display of valuable objects, where guests abide by an explicit set of rules which include, but are not limited to, refraining from damaging the objects. You see, Timmy, think of a museum as a big fancy mall. If a 12-year-old went to the mall and got caught sticking gum to a pile of sweaters, even if they were of an unpleasant Hilfiger variety, chances are there would be repercussions. Based on the fact that 12-year-olds are commonly understood to be capable of grasping the concept that it's wrong to vandalize things that don't belong to them.

I suppose museums could always just encase paintings in lead boxes and allow visitors to view them through a special reinforced peephole. And if there was the occasional errant 12-year-old who might not fully understand that it's wrong to whip out a blowtorch and commence melting a hole in the contraption, there's plenty of time for them to realize the error of their ways later on when they have a chance to mature a little.

[AzDar]

24. Oh yeah, charge the PARENTS a million-plus, because their

TWELVE-YEAR-OLD stuck a freaking piece of gum on a painting.
Sure, it's a terrible thing; but I'm sure the TWELVE-YEAR-OLD would be happy to make amends by sacrificing everything his PARENTS have probably worked their whole lives for because he made a really stupid decision at the age of TWELVE.
Someone needs to be punished here? How's about the genius who allows a TWELVE-YEAR-OLD to get close enough to a million-dollar painting to TOUCH it?
Perhaps if schools could afford a few art history/appreciation classes this never would have happened...but then that wouldn't leave enough time and/or money in the budget for all those beneficial and productive standardized tests.
JAIL TIME? Jeebus.

[dysfunctional press]

30. restoration wouldn't cost a million-plus...

but still- i don't think that the parents should be billed.

shit happens when you have kids around.

[TX-RAT]

26. At the risk of getting flamed

First let me say, any type of vandalism is a criminal act and deserves some type of punishment or restitution. With that said, after seeing the picture, the kid stuck his gum on the only thing around that didn't look like art.

[bridgit]

27. what a little dumb-ass...

:eyes:

[ToeBot]

28. Wow, harsh critic! n/t

[dysfunctional press]

33. the painting in question-

[theHandpuppet]

43. And your point is?

That people should feel free to deface any art they don't appreciate/understand? I could say some really harsh things here, but I'll refrain.

[dysfunctional press]

47. no point at all- i just figured that some people might be interested.

but go ahead and make all the wrong-headed assumptions you like..

[theHandpuppet]

49. Yeah, okay... I'll just do that.

:eyes:

[dysfunctional press]

51. yeah, i noticed.

it seems to be your forte.

[TX-RAT]

134. I believe that post was directed at me.

[BoneDaddy]

69. LOL

unbelievable what pisses people off. To a fucking 12 year old, that "piece of art" looks like what most of his kids to in art class, give the kid a break.

[spooked]

55. Thanks for posting the painting

saved me from having to look it up. :)

Reminds me of Abe Lincoln's profile, lol

[Obamarama]

91. Big fucking deal. I HATE modern art. Despise it. Can't stand it.

I think De Kooning and Pollock and their abstract expressionist contemporaries were a bunch of non-talented fake somebodies of the art world.

But you know what? I understand that a hell of a lot of people think they were brilliant and that their paintings are the most amazing things in the world.

Because a piece of art has no value to you does not mean it does not have value. Your contention seems to be that since you don't understand it and don't like it, then hell...lets have MORE 12 year olds stick gum on it.

[dysfunctional press]

97. huh?

"Your contention seems to be that since you don't understand it and don't like it, then hell...lets have MORE 12 year olds stick gum on it..."

WHERE did that come from...?

all i did was post a picture of the painting in question, because i thought that people might be interested- i made ABSOLUTELY NO COMMENT regarding my opinion of the piece...and i still haven't- any one person's opinion on the quality of the painting has absolutely no bearing on the issue.

[Obamarama]

101. Sorry...you are right...

I thought you were replying to the post that said the kid stuck his gum on the only thing that didn't look like art. I thought you were replying with the image as if to say, look here it is...it indeed does not look like art.

My apologies for the misguided affront.

[Cronus Protagonist]

129. Maybe it was even improved by the addition

... beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

:evilgrin:

[Freedom_Aflaim]

144. Kinda looks like a large blob of bubblelicious

$1.5 million?

Is that in real dollars?

Personally I wouldnt be inclined to spend even 1.5 monopoly dollars on an apparent fingerpainting, but thats just me.

That doesnt excuse the kid of course. But really 1.5 million? seriously.

[EstimatedProphet]

41. The painting now has "history"

There's now a weird story to go with it. Its value may go up. And if that happens, should the kid get paid?

[Robeson]

46. Ah yes, provenance!....

...nice call!

[KittyWampus]

61. Thanks for thinking outside the box!

:D

[Brewman_Jax]

45. Bill the parents

n/t

[HughBeaumont]

52. Most museums require a foot distance away from the painting.

I know the NGA has that in place. I know the guards can't watch everyone at once, but they should be in the rooms where kids are.

But I mean, COME on. He's old enough to know that you don't stick freaking gum on a painting. My kid knew that when he was 7, for Christ's sake. That's just not even respecting the art and I can't brush this off as his "being 12". I mean, who thinks of damaging a painting that's worth 7 bills but someone who's probably got something wrong up there?

[JHB]

56. voluntarily deleted

I'm just in a crummy mood this morning...

forget the snarky previous version.

[porphyrian]

68. Make him pay to have it cleaned.

His parents can start making payments until he's 18.

[noonwitch]

70. He should have to do community service at the DIA

Cleaning up the bathrooms, mowing the lawn, whatever. He also should be made to watch while the experts restore the painting and should have to write papers for his hearings at juvvie about art history and art restoration. If he gets a certain referee at Wayne County Family Court, he will have to do all that.

The Wayne County Detention Facility is no place for a non-violent 12 year old.

[benburch]

76. I can agree with that...

Obviously your juvenile facility is much worse than ours...

[npincus]

73. the little bastard... attach his wages!

make him pay until he's an old geezer.

[iconoclastNYC]

74. Punish the parents.

This is ridiculous.

There is a crisis in parenting in this country.

Today on the subway this little kid was swinging her feet so it was slamming the underside of the seating bench. over and over and over.

When about 3 peopel looked up and gave the mom a look the mom finally told the girl to stop. Which she did for about 3 seconds. And then started again. Then the mom waited, and told her again.......another 3 second pause. This cycle continnued until i reached my destination.

This kid was like 2 years old.

The thing lazy parents don't understand is that if you don't get your kid to listen to you at that age you never will and you are setting yourself for another 16 years of misery and failure.

[Brewman_Jax]

85. Having been a camp counselor and coach

you are absolutely correct. I've seen the kids of stressed single parents, slacker "your kid is your friend" parents, and the strict parenting parents. I could tell very quickly whose kid was going to be a future delinquent and who wasn't. I can tell you this--most of the parented kids did not become delinquents.

[Catherine Vincent]

98. Oh wow, the 12 year old wouldn't have done that if Madea was around.

She would have definitely disciplined him. LOL!

[underpants]

100. I saw the painting-it was hard to tell that anything had happened to it

Art huh?

[Marr]

113. C'mon, it's a Helen Frankenthaler painting.

How can you even TELL it's got a stain on it? Hell- I doubt I'd even notice the gum.

:P

[WinkyDink]

114. This was a "stupid" kid who didn't want to be there, so "he showed them!"

Some form of clean-up duty and a $ fine for his parents sounds about right to me.
And a school punishment as well, since this was a school trip, and he was technically "in class" at the time.

There is no way he was too young not to figure he was vandalizing. He didn't stick the gum on his shirt, did he?

[smb]

118. Stain? Where?

A 12-year-old visitor to the Detroit Institute of Arts stuck a wad of gum to a $1.5 million painting, leaving a stain the size of a quarter



How could they tell?

[WI_DEM]

125. I'm sure they can tell.

[WI_DEM]

119. He should be made to do volunteer work in the museum

maybe he will come to appeciate art more.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

153. Darn close to my first thoughts

He should be placed on probation and have to perform community service. Preferably either there or in another museum of art.

[2bfree]

157. I agree.

Something should be done to teach the boy a lesson and working on Saturdays at the museum would be a great start. It would be good for him to help pay for the restoration of the painting and learn about art in the process.

[Javaman]

121. "he is only 12 and I don't think he understood the ramifications"

Bullshit on that.

I would be taken to the Met when I was in grade school and our teachers told us expressly that those painting were not, under any circumstances, to be touched. Period. The were priceless.

Even before going into the museum, our teachers collected our gum.

Society crumbles not by the politicians that ruin it but by the populous that get lackadaisic in their prosecution of our corrupt officials.

It's not the big things folks, it's the little things that is our great undoing.

[ISUGRADIA]

133. Said perfectly

[meisje]

124. This is why we should publicly flog people

[BoneDaddy]

142. You are fucking nuts

flogging a child

[VOX]

135. Here's the painting...

Yes, it was a stupid and classless thing the kid did -- he should disciplined by his parents, and taught that a work of art is something worthy of respect, even if you don't personally appreciate its aesthetic.

All that said, the painting itself resembles a large blob of bubble gum! :evilgrin:

[Javaman]

139. Actually, it's beautiful example of abstract art.

And I'm sure if the artist was alive, I don't really think he would appreciate it being defaced.

As far as the child is concerned, he's an ignorant little dweeb, who should know better. If he was 5 or 6 years old I would have forgiven him, but at the age of 12, a person knows about the concept of defacing something.

What should be done to him? Have him sit through 1000 hours of lectures on the concept of modern art. Then have him produce a piece, after which, burn it in front of him. Then see how he feels.

And that is getting off lightly because the stain can be removed.

[im10ashus]

136. At 12, I knew better than to deface anything.

At 12, I understood the ramifications of most things. My parents were not "strict" but I would have been flayed alive for doing something as horrifyingly trashy as sticking my gum on a painting in a museum.

[SmokingJacket]

137. Jail? That's ridiculous.

Sounds like he was punished enough. It's a big weird-looking painting -- it's not like he hurt another person.

Kids don't get the concept of an abstract painting being "worth" a million bucks -- so someone needs to teach him. I guess.

At worst his parents should pay for half the repair costs.

And some risk should be borne by the museum -- when you mix art and kids, stuff happens. It's inevitable and not the end of the world.

[phrenzy]

140. Shocking...

How some DUers sound just like 'Tough Love' freepers on this board.

Shit, I could have seen myself doing this at 12 in certain circumstances.

There are SO many things we simply do NOT KNOW that wildly change the severity of this act.

Depending on the circumstances I could see the appropriate punishment range from having the kid take a course in art appreciation all the way to a trip in the squad car to get cited for vandalism and getting lots of community service hours. I find it hard to see any situation where JAIL TIME would be appropriate. No, actually there is maybe one way - If the teacher was looking at the kid saying "No, please don't do that to the cherished, priceless painting" - and the kid spits at the teacher and told him to fuck off and proceeded to stick the gum on the painting anyway asking what he was gonna do about it.

Like I said, at 12, the possibilities range from a kid who has really no clue just HOW wrong sticking gum on such a painting is (no doubt they knew it was WRONG - but not 1.5 million dollar painting wrong)to a kid who knew exactly how much what he was doing would hurt somebody and did it for that reason alone.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

143. Take it out of his allowance

Gheesh, the kid is 12 years old. This is not an adult. This is not a capital crime.

I'd even guess that the kid had no idea it was worth that much money.

Should he be punished? Of course he should. Since nobody was hurt, and he is still quite young and should have known better (and presumably a first offense), a good dressing down and a month without his gameboy should be sufficient.

Oh and btw, the security folks at the museum might want to consider putting million dollar treasures behind glass, especially when children are coming by. Grandparents worldwide already know to put valuables out of reach when kids visit. Its good advice for museums to.

[Generator]

149. I thought it was funny

But I wasn't impressed with the painting. I thought the pricetag was outrageous. But that's not the point. Of course if it was my kid...well I can't imagine. First of all-NO GUM. Gum is a disgusting little habit and really it just SMACKS of snotty. (I remember chewing gum loudly in a movie theatre as a teenager-yes teenagers can be snots)

But the kid is a real snot. It could have been a real snot. Would that have been worse or better? CSI should do an episode...of course it doesn't involve a dead person killed in a sadistic manner so it's not interesting. Wow what a great thread to digress on. AND not one Bush, neo-con or liberal thing about it. Unless you think art is liberal, which it kinda is-and art is of course sacred, but I shouldn't have thought it was funny but the reason they made such a big deal about it was because of the big price tag. That shouldn't be the point, now should it? Which proves, I guess that I am a marxist with a sense of humour. So it is political afterall. Sigh.

[GreenArrow]

150. cane him! Flog him! throw him in the stocks!

Jail him! Stone him! Stone the little bastard! Make him bleed! Make him PAY! PAY! PAY!

[NuttyFluffers]

156. hear hear! flay him with nettles! throw all his possessions on a bonfire!

death by a 10,000 paper cuts! whip him unconscious with perfumed shoelaces! no wait, even worse! give him $1.5 million of debt to ruin the rest of his life!

[LittleClarkie]

161. Why is everyone finding this so amusing?

I don't understand.

[Rex]

162. Now it will be worth 10 times the amount.

The kid is a genius! :evilgrin: