Next Baby Seal Slaughter is Rapidly Approaching - Sign Petition

[Number9Dream]

Hundreds of thousands of baby seals will soon be clubbed and shot in 2006. This inhumane, barbaric slaughter is opposed by 70% of Canadians, yet the govt. supports it. Please sign the petition, and tell the Canadian govt. that you will boycott Canadian seafood and not vacation in Canada until the seal slaughter is ended.

http://www.stopthesealhunt.com/site/apps/ka/ct/contactcustom.asp?c=hmKYJeNVJtF&b=412891

http://www.stopthesealhunt.com/site/pp.asp?c=hmKYJeNVJtF&b=369143

>

[Harper_is_Bush]

1. This claim that "baby seals" are slaughtered is a lie.

The anti-sealing industry has become a for-profit pile of BS.

I'm as big an activist as the next person...human and animal rights....but the misinformation surrounding this issue coming from the anti-sealing zealots is very disheartening to real activists who depend on truth and honesty to make advancement.

Even the friggin picture you've posted is a lie.

Note I'm not calling YOU personally a liar, I believe you've probably just got caught up in the misinformation surrounding this issue.

[ohiosmith]

4. So true. The inhabitants of those areas where seals are harvested have

every right to exploit their natural resources.

PS Bono and Paul McCartney should mind their own fucking business.

[AZBlue]

24. Wow. Have you no decency or humanity??

[Harper_is_Bush]

89. That is utter crap. How dare you...

pretend a higher "decency or humanity" because you have a different opinion on this issue.

If you were fully aware of all the facts surrounding the seal hunt and the forces against it then you would quite likely feel no different to it than you do to the place that kills your beef or chicken.

[Critters2]

145. I don't eat beef or chicken

because I feel toward slaughterhouses the way I feel toward neanderthals who club baby seals to death for no good reason.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

151. all Christians know

God said, "THOU SHALT NOT KILL!" It's in the Big Ten but I guess some ignore the Divine Big Ten in the same way they ignore Jefferson's Big Ten, in the Bill of Rights.

[AZBlue]

5. Do you have any links?

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I'd like more info. Thanks.

[Harper_is_Bush]

8. Here:

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/higgins092305.htm

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/statem/2005/20050317_e.htm

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/misc/seal_briefing_e.htm
One immediate indication of thier dishonesty is the picture of a harp seal pup they use.
From the last link:
"The hunt for whitecoats (harp seal pups) and bluebacks (hooded seal pups) has not been permitted since 1987."

It's a money making issue for the anti-hunt organizations. It's pretty much all they're about, and it sickens me to see peoples good hearts taken advantage of.

[AZBlue]

10. They club them to death for the PELTS

I'm against killing any animal in any way for its pelt. It's disgusting. It's right there in your linked sites.

[AngryAmish]

13. I agree

I'm taking off my belt right now.

[AZBlue]

15. If it's leather...

...then good for you! You should!

[0007]

150. Cow devi is gonna strike back. Some have been hit hard.

[Harper_is_Bush]

90. No they do not. The entire animal is used, and most are shot.

And even the few that are "clubbed" are judged to be killed humanely by many organizations that DON'T HAVE A FINANCIAL INTEREST in promoting outrage in the population.

[flvegan]

109. PROVE IT.

Back your "most are shot" post up.

[Harper_is_Bush]

123. Prove the opposite?

No, didn't think so.

My proof is from Canadas Fisheries Department. If you'd bothered to read any links I've already posted you'd have seen it.

[Critters2]

146. Oh, Canadian Fisheries

...speaking of someone with a financial interest.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

153. Okay for all republi-con spies posting here:

I'm not going to beat you over the head with Scripture at this time. Let's hear from a non-Christian philosopher from a very long time ago:

Adopting the Platonic philosophy that everything has a perfect form, Porphyry believed that animals, while possessing less rational natures than humans, still have souls. By observing a natural capability to assess situations, he demonstrates that a rationale, which he believes is synonymous with a soul, also exists in animals. Because animals exhibit a degree of intellect, killing them except in self-defense is unjust. From the philosophy of Porphyry, which gives credence to reports that Pythagoras abstained from eating meat, Renaissance Neo-Platonists evolve a concept of justice for all creatures of Divine creation.

see? I don't need to lie, when truth is on my side.

[flvegan]

19. *snort* Heh heh...those links...

One freelance writer from the area and two links to sites from the Minister of Fisheries (who promote/support the hunt). Hey, I can back up Republican statements with links to whitehouse.gov. Does that make them true/right? Um, no.

And FYI, they DO hunt the whitecoated pups. They're allowed to bash the shit out of them as soon as they start to molt.

Lies, indeed. It sickens me to see govt propaganda guzzled like the Kool Aid it is.

[Harper_is_Bush]

91. *snort* Heh heh....those organizations against the seal hunt...

...are all soliciting donations.

That guy who runs Sea Shepard (where you can donate a car, ship, or plane btw!!!) used to think the seal hunt was an unimportant environmental thing to worry about, but now he realizes it's friggin Christmas for them.

People who give them money are suckers. People who believe what they spoon feed are also suckers.

How do you explain the picture of the Harp seal pup? It's been illegal to hunt them for almost 20 years. Isn't that a little misleading?

[flvegan]

95. Um, ignorance is bliss

but the sealers can whack any molting seal, even a whitecoat.

And Paul Watson, yeah, he'll be on your backdoor next year. Get yer hakapik ready, sealer...er, sucker.

BTW..."shepherd" is the proper spelling.

And if it's donations (money) then wtf are you talking about? That's all the sealers care about. $2 deduction for every bullet hole, don't you know.

Oh, wait...no, you don't.

[Harper_is_Bush]

102. Huh?

"And if it's donations (money) then wtf are you talking about? That's all the sealers care about. $2 deduction for every bullet hole, don't you know."

:wtf:

Go learn:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/reports-rapports/facts-faits/facts-faits2004_e.htm#HUMANE%20HARVESTING

[flvegan]

105. Here you go

From HSUS:
"It is important to note that each killing method is demonstrably cruel. Because sealers shoot at seals from moving boats, the pups are often only wounded. The main sealskin processing plant in Canada deducts $2 from the price they pay for the skins for each bullet hole they find—therefore sealers are loath to shoot seals more than once. As a result, wounded seals are left to suffer in agony—many slip beneath the surface of the water where they die slowly and are never recovered."

Disprove it if you can. Otherwise...

[flvegan]

106. I do have to thank you for at least admitting

to the fact that over three years, almost 1 million seals will be clubbed to death. Oh, wait...HAVE BEEN clubbed to death.

Ever wonder what being skinned alive feels like?

Fuck your sealer kin.

[Harper_is_Bush]

114. How many cows have been killed in that time?

Are you going to send me $500 to go take pictures in a local beef slaughterhouse?

Take comfort in your rhetoric and profane display of anger, I'll take comfort in knowing the truth about the hunt.

Skinned alive. sheesh.

[Maru Kitteh]

119. Fuck anyone who defends the barbaric practice of inhumane killing of seals

or cattle or chickens or pigs is re or any other creature. I realize not all of humanity is ready, unselfish or educated enough to break the addiction to dead flesh.

For those who insist on eating the flesh of dead animals, I would hope they would be responsible enough to ensure truly humane slaughter in the style of Temple Grandin.

All others are Neandertal, or worse.

[Harper_is_Bush]

121. Only Temple Grandin slaughter for the flesh eaters....

gotcha.

I'm not familiar with that method of slaughter. I do know that the Canadian Vetrinary Association has declared the seal hunt humane.
There are guidelines that are enforced.
There are assurances made that the animal is indeed dead before any processing begins.

[Maru Kitteh]

129. So you blindly accept the words of those whose interest it is to lie

above solid documentation and visual evidence. This tells us much about you.

Everyone knows full well what a sick joke those "veterinarians" are that "monitor" these "hunts". Yes, that's a lot of words in quotes, it's just so hard to display ones sarcasm and contempt online otherwise.

Ick. This whole conversation would be very familiar to those who did right in the past when they sought to improve humanity by the condemnation of slavery. That's how it works. Either you are ahead of the curve, or a sad relic of ignorance.

[Maru Kitteh]

So you blindly accept the words of those whose interest it is to lie

above solid documentation and visual evidence. This tells us much about you.

Everyone knows full well what a sick joke those "veterinarians" are that "monitor" these "hunts". Yes, that's a lot of words in quotes, it's just so hard to display ones sarcasm and contempt online otherwise.

Ick. This whole conversation would be very familiar to those who did right in the past when they sought to improve humanity by the condemnation of slavery. That's how it works. Either you are ahead of the curve, or a sad relic of ignorance.

[Maru Kitteh]

130. So you blindly accept the words of those whose interest it is to lie

above solid documentation and visual evidence. This tells us much about you.

Everyone knows full well what a sick joke those "veterinarians" are that "monitor" these "hunts". Yes, that's a lot of words in quotes, it's just so hard to display ones sarcasm and contempt online otherwise.

Ick. This whole conversation would be very familiar to those who did right in the past when they sought to improve humanity by the condemnation of slavery. That's how it works. Either you are ahead of the curve, or a sad relic of ignorance.

[Maru Kitteh]

131. So you blindly accept the words of those whose interest it is to lie

above solid documentation and visual evidence. This tells us much about you.

Everyone knows full well what a sick joke those "veterinarians" are that "monitor" these "hunts". Yes, that's a lot of words in quotes, it's just so hard to display ones sarcasm and contempt online otherwise.

Ick. This whole conversation would be very familiar to those who did right in the past when they sought to improve humanity by the condemnation of slavery. That's how it works. Either you are ahead of the curve, or a sad relic of ignorance.

[Catchawave]

141. Canadian Veterinary Association ?

..is government, is it not? *snort*

[LibertyorDeath]

20. Beaming with pride another crushed seal skull

Bravo !
There are so many ways to make a living in this World
this is just plain sick.

[Harper_is_Bush]

92. Unless you are a vegetarian

and have such santimoneous words of outrage to say about all the slaughterhouses then you're being either a hypocrite or selective.

[flvegan]

107. I am, and I do.

And I back what this poster said.

[Maru Kitteh]

120. Rocket Scientists

often have trouble deducing the meaning of the letters VEGAN at in ones name.

Brilliant.

[LibertyorDeath]

124. Cheers flvegan

:toast:

[LibertyorDeath]

122. I became vegetarian after watching this,

If you havn't seen it I highly recommend it.

“A Cow at My Table”

Slaughterhouses, rendering plants and factory farms are notoriously secretive, and we rarely see what really goes on inside. A Cow at My Table opens the doors for us and at times what we witness is not easy viewing. The toughest section to watch is called 'Money.' Some animals arrive at slaughterhouses alive, but unable to walk off the trucks due to illness, injury, malnutrition or exhaustion. They are called “downers” and should be humanely euthanized, but, since only animals that enter the slaughterhouse alive can be used for food, it is common practice in Canada to attach a chain to a leg and drag the animal off the truck and into the slaughterhouse. To Abbott's credit, graphic footage like this is not used sensationally. The downers illustrate the point that in our society money is more important than the humane treatment of animals. It also shows how Canadians are kept unaware of what's really happening.

http://www.veg.ca/lifelines/marapr/cow.htm



http://www.petacatalog.org/prodinfo.asp?number=VP517&variation=&aitem=23&mitem=24

[SomewhereOutThere424]

30. Bull crap

Afford proof other than 'oh that's a lie'. The same baby seal cull happened in the past and, guess what, they had pictures proving it. I've seen the photos.

You can't magically poof it away by calling it a lie. Nice try.

[WhereThereIsFire]

2. Thanks for the link ...

I just went there when I read this and did sign it. Decades of this protest ... and still the slaughter goes on.

[Harper_is_Bush]

6. Did you donate too?

That's all they're really after.

The seals aren't endangered and the hunt is humane (as humane as the killing of ANY animal for food is).

[AZBlue]

12. This is how you define humane?

"I have witnessed mother seals wailing over the bloody carcasses of their dead babies, and I would attest that once one has witnessed this, the taste for accepting the practice diminishes."

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2005/04/11/HuntingSeals/

[WhereThereIsFire]

22. Humane?

I did not donate ... however, the note I left did point out that the seal-killers should THINK about whether they would like to take their toddler children and grandchildren along to view this up close, bloody and personal. Baby boots on the ground, so to speak. And ... I'm sure there are many who would not mind exposing young children to it and even offering them a chance to batter the animals themselves. Remembering all the while that one of the early "tests" of children growing up to be serial killers is whether or not as children they brutalized animals. Seals when they cry sound even more emotionally distressed than human crying. And ... I guess all these seal-killer folks just LOVED watching MARCH OF THE PENGUINS.

[SomewhereOutThere424]

32. I share your sentiments of "human" exactly

I mean they'd SCREAM if their child got a knick from an animal, but clubbing in baby seal skulls is fine.

OH WAIT. You said humane. Nevermind, I DON'T agree with you.

[flvegan]

41. When did "skinned alive" become humane?

Here's a report on the 2001 hunt, compiled by 5 independent veterinarians:
http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw/dfiles/file_95.pdf

And a quip about said report from HSUS:
"...an independent team of veterinarians who studied the hunt concluded that governmental regulations regarding humane killing were neither being respected nor enforced, and that the seal hunt failed to comply with Canada's basic animal welfare regulations. Shockingly, the veterinarians found that in 42% of the cases they studied, the seals had likely been skinned alive while conscious.

Parliamentarians, journalists, and scientists who observe Canada's commercial seal hunt each year continue to report unacceptable levels of cruelty, including sealers dragging conscious seals across the ice floes with boat hooks, shooting seals and leaving them to suffer in agony, stockpiling dead and dying animals, and even skinning seals alive."

I'll wait for your answer, though I doubt I'll get one.

[MoonRiver]

46. Killing for food?

Please, at least be honest.

[The Stranger]

3. Kick and recommend for greatest.

[xchrom]

7. done! and with pleasure!

and i recommended.

[Harper_is_Bush]

9. Here, for all the suckers..............

https://www.kintera.org/site/apps/ka/sd/donor.asp?c=hmKYJeNVJtF&b=412735&en=9dIBILNtE7KzFLNjG1JyGHOjEgJTITMoH9IEKQMuFgJLKXPEF

Line the pockets of these con men.

[AZBlue]

11. Not suckers - simply humane

"Although the Canadian government has now outlawed the killing of whitecoat pups, all other infant seals are free game under the law. The young infants still possess the most valuable pelts for the fashion industry."

"The Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs claims, “Canada does prohibit the commercial hunt of seal pups.” This is not true. A two-week old beater is a seal pup. The DFO statement appears to be designed to fool the public into believing that infant seals are not killed, which they certainly are. Waiting two weeks to kill the infants once the whitecoats have molted is a public relations gesture, not ecological science."

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2005/04/11/HuntingSeals/

[Harper_is_Bush]

93. I'm going to go take pictures in my local slaughterhouse....

can I have $500 please? That will buy me a camera.

Hey, if I get enough donations I can quit my job, buy a car to drive to the slaughterhouse, pay my rent. I'll make a living out of it!!!

Hmmm....I'll need a picture of a doe-eyed little calf smiling at the camera....

:eyes:

[flvegan]

110. Just don't take your hakapik with you, okay?

[AZBlue]

142. Knock yourself out.

But I'm pretty sure it's already been done. A lot.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flvegan]

37. Con men? IFAW? Thirty years, 2 million donors worldwide.

Perchance, would I find a hakapik somewhere on your premises or otherwise in your possession?

Just curious...

[Harper_is_Bush]

96. No, no hakapik. I have read up on them, humane killing method

as determined by a Canadian veternarian association.

Most of the Seals are shot these days though.

BTW, you shouldn't let yourself be convinced that if an organization gets 2 million donors or has 30 years of history it's being completely truthful about things. How do you explain the picture of the Harp seal pup?

[flvegan]

108. Have you?

Why? Making sure?

Shot? I'd like to see a link to that proof (most of them being shot).

You're right. 30 years and 2 million donors should never override corrupt government. Fuck moveon anyway, right?

Point. Match.

[Vidar]

14. done

[Beaverhausen]

16. Signed

god when will this stop?

[InvisibleTouch]

17. Signed and Recommended. n/t

[LeftyMom]

18. Signed, kicked and recommended. nt

[ernstbass]

21. Done

It's time for this barbaric practice to end

[flvegan]

23. Done. K&R.

Thanks for posting!

[mainegreen]

25. Wheeee! Lets ban hunting!

Seriously though, who the hell "clubs" seals for commercial harvest? Statistics anyone? Seriously, I see no numbers about how much clubbing goes on. I suspect most of the clubbing is probably done by locals, who then eat the seal and sell the pelt.

Quite frankly if an individual hunter wants to club his six seals, go ahead. Individual hunting is part of the natural order. I've never hunted myself other than fishing, but I don't share the idea that hunting is in any way bad. Life feeds on life. Even cute baby seal life. As long as hunting is regulated, and populations are scientifically monitored and controlled I see no problem with it.

If a company is doing clubbing though, thats bad. Also stupid. Seriously. A gun would be much quicker.

I doubt, though, due to the hostility each side feels to wards the other we won't find a serious, well though out and data-backed views.

If someone could, say, post actual numbers on who's doing the clubbing and how much by each group, I could see changing the opinions of some pro-hunting people like me. But there does seem to be a tad to much 'cute baby seal, how could you' on some of those sites.

[AZBlue]

28. Info

"Thousands of commercial hunters armed with clubs, rifles and spears moved on to the ice floes off eastern Canada today to kill more than 300,0000 baby seals for their pelts over the next few weeks." (emphasis added) I don't believe 2006 figures have been announced yet (at least I couldn't find them anywhere) but it seems to fall around 300,000 each year.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/animalrights/story/0,11917,1448385,00.html

"Sealing is an off-season activity conducted by fishermen from Canada's East Coast. They make, on average, a small fraction of their annual incomes from sealing—and the rest from commercial fisheries." The highest percentage of their income that I've seen estimated is 5%, so we're not talking about taking someone's livelihood away.
http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/facts_about_the_canadian_seal_hunt.html

Can't find much about who specifically does it - doubt they want their individual company names published given the controversy.

It's not hunting - it's savagery.

[mainegreen]

40. Ahh, yes.

Perhaps you should have included this link:

http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw/dfiles/file_95.pdf

That is definitly going to change more minds then the bombastick (but based on that report fairly correct) links up top!
I know when I'm wrong. That is not hunting. Icky. Same reason I don't eat non-locally slaughtered beef.

[Harper_is_Bush]

98. A voice of reason in the wilderness....

ahhh.

The majority of the seals are shot these days. I don't have actual numbers on that, but it's accepted wisdom.

But, even the other methods have been found humane by a Canadian Vetranary Association. Many here would assume Canadian Vets would lie to protect the hunt, which is bizarre.

Good info on the hunt:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/reports-rapports/facts-faits/facts-faits2004_e.htm

"A recent report published by the Canadian Veterinary Journal concluded virtually all harp seals are killed in what veterinarians describe as an acceptably humane manner."

A "technical briefing":
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/misc/seal_briefing_e.htm

[Harper_is_Bush]

100. selfdelete

[AZBlue]

137. It's "accepted wisdom" yet you can't find a single link to back it up??

Doesn't sound like any "wisdom" I've ever heard of.

[Silverhair]

26. Hundreds of thousands? I doubt that number. Sounds like hype. NT

[flvegan]

36. Doubt? 975,000 over 3 years. Here's a link to a pro-sealing site

that backs it up:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/misc/seal_briefing_e.htm

For 2005, there remained a quota of 319,000 plus, which, according to HSUS' official tally, came to 317,672 (reported).

Is it still hype?

[Silverhair]

80. Interesting. Obviously not an endangered species.

So what is the problem? I grew up on a ranch, so animal deaths are a normal part of life to me.

[flvegan]

84. So then

cruelty is lost on you?

Seems it'd be a normal part of death to you...

[Silverhair]

103. Are you a vegan? Do you use any animal products? NT

Death by a blow to the skull's braincase is instantaneous. No suffering by the pup.

Yes, seal pup are "cute". So are calfs and lambs, kids and other baby animals.

[flvegan]

111. *snort* Missed my screenname, didn't you.

Check the last five letters...

So, you can ensure that these precise blows to the braincase are just that...precise? Cute has nothing to do with it.

[Harper_is_Bush]

125. Why not just relax the outrage and the insults..

it's getting a little tired.

You're a Vegan. That's great. I hope you get all the nutrition you need, I've known some who got sick when they weren't careful.

The rest of us who eat meat might be monsters in your view, but do you honestly go around calling everyone you see eating meat a monster? Yell it in thier face?
Then why do it here?

[LeftyMom]

126. Since I suspect he went to bed and won't answer until tomorrow

Let's just say your concern is misplaced. Poor flvegan is wasting away for lack of meat, I tell you. :sarcasm:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=4464272&mesg_id=4465438

[Lorien]

86. There are many parts of the world where human deaths are commonplace

and we humans are far from being endangered-in fact, our overpopulation could very well destroy us all-but we, here in "civilized" America, still generally think that beating someone to death with a club is a immoral thing to do. Animals think and feel fear and pain; that should be reason enough to stop this brutal killing for profit.

"You can tell a lot about a people by the way they treat their animals" M. K. Gandhi

[Silverhair]

104. See my post #103

[flvegan]

112. What of it?

Nonsense. Drivel. See my response to your enlightening post.

[AZBlue]

143. That makes it ok?

Hunting and savagery don't have to be the same. In this situation, they are.

[Silverhair]

154. Yes, it does.

[Robeson]

27. Done. Thanks!

[shockra]

29. Done.

And kicked.

[SomewhereOutThere424]

33. Thank you for the link, and signed

Atleast SOME DUers have a heart still, and aren't stupid enough to fall for the white washed claims that this is a lie. I've seen too much to know this isn't a lie...it's disguisting brutality. So if you wanna justify this kind of thing with stupid words and fake links we CONSTANTLY bash here on DU because editorial opinions and individual journalists often say lies about the democratic party too, then okay...but just remember you're no different than a freeper when you wake up the next morning after the blood of young animals, children, run like wine.

Atleast we'll still have our money and our right to call people liars over the internet. I guess that's what matters most to some people.

[alstephenson]

35. Horrible!

Petition signed.

[WhollyHeretic]

38. Done. Thanks for posting it. n/t

[domlaw]

39. I can't and won't sign

There are many reasons for not signing something like this. Strangely I am against the seal hunt because of the commercial aspects of it, however this anti-hunt / anti-fur is predicated on a whole lot of pain.

Take a trip up to the Yukon sometime and introduce yourself to some of the natives there. Most of the time they (unless they have had the courage to fight back) can be found living in less than ideal conditions some (not all) with an alchohol addiction.

Ask them what happened and to a person they were ripped from there trapping existence when they were young / placed in residential schools/ raped / abused / left out to fend for themselves. Go up to these people and tell them that trapping / furring is wrong, they'll laugh you out of town. Explain to them that your western european disgust at their culture gives you the right to tell them how to subsist.

Rant off

BTW Most natives in Yukon did fight back / they have settled their land claims (like they didn't own it all anyways)/ and have created very good support groups to help their most afflicted.

[MoonRiver]

42. Baby seals have nothing to do with the people you're talking about.

If they were ripped from their homes, it was because they were being abused and/or neglected. The alternative is often not any better or worse, but that does not justify the slaughter of innocent little baby seals.

[domlaw]

49. What? You're Northern Canadian History is lacking

"Under the Indian Act, to provide an education to Aboriginal people, as well as to assist with their integration into the broader Canadian society."

Understand the part integration, it had nothing to do with abuse but an attempt to westernize a culture. By ripping them from their traditional hunter / gatherer existence and beat the lord into them and the Native out.

"In recent years, individuals have come forward with personal and painful stories of physical and sexual abuse at residential schools."

(How's that for western culture, I'm sure they were sexually abused at home to???)


"the legacy of physical and sexual abuse in the residential school system. The Foundation will assess and fund eligible community-based healing initiatives to address issues such as cycles of physical and sexual abuse, family violence, drug and alcohol abuse, and parenting skills."

http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/gs/schl_e.html


Also see:

Genocide in the North

When the Gold Rush brought thousands of Euro-North Americans to Canada's North the original, Yukon Territory, Native inhabitants were destroyed. The government acted, from its domestic policy (of assimilation and eradication), to contain the Native population. Natives were forced to live on reserves. Alcohol, Euro-Canadian imposed diseases, and Euro-Religions were used to erase a distinct, advanced Native culture.

Church and state run Residential boarding schools stole thousands of Native children (from their families) to become victims of Genocide. Murder, sexual and physical abuse (long term), brain washing, and atomization of "the individual" (through isolation from Native culture) was regular practice. Residential schools were federally funded to achieve its political motive - Genocide. By definition, Native children were livestock.

Livestock is defined as: "using animals for profit or gain". The Yukon prison system is an arm of the economic prosperous, genocide machine. Yukon "Justice" or Corrections is a vast, extensive operation. Since September, 2002, I've conducted research into the Whitehorse prison system.

http://canadiangenocide.nativeweb.org/whitehorse.html

Again take a visit up there and say what you just said, Yukoners are an honest bunch.

[MoonRiver]

50. Torturing and abusing humans or animals is inexcusable.

Nobody gets a pass. I will fight to protect the innocent of any species.

[domlaw]

51. So is the idea that your western ideals

can be forced onto other cultures. Natives in Canada have been hunting and skinning animals for a long long time. This is part of their culture and you have it taken away because you know better? (I've heard this argument from somewhere LOL)

Before colonization the Natives did quite well thanks very much.


Also see:

http://www.fisherycrisis.com/seals/sealsncod.htm


Last time I checked the Natives knew how to co-exist with nature. We are the problem.

[MoonRiver]

52. All I can say is, Canada won't get my family's money if they allow this.

I think I speak for many others.

[domlaw]

53. Look I admire your stance

And I agree that the Seal Hunt is a bad thing (told you I had a strange position). What I am not against is the cultural right to trade in furs (be it seals or whatever). If properly monitored and regulated I don't have any issues with it. As to the method of killing

see:

http://www.kfccruelty.com/index.asp

http://www.hfa.org/hot_topic/interview.html

[MoonRiver]

59. Thanks, and I admire your commitment to the ways of indigenous Canadians.

BUT, I give no quarter when it comes to protecting animals. I am a vegetarian, and card carrying member of PETA and Farm Sanctuary. I only have my power as a consumer to protect the innocent. And I wield it.

[Critters2]

147. Those who club baby seals to death

aren't natives. They're of European descent.

[flvegan]

54. It seems your anger might be better directed at the commercial

hunters, trappers and fishermen that have forced the natives into such a situation. One would think you'd support an end to the commercial slaughter of the seals for that very reason.

But then, maybe you're just angry in general.

[domlaw]

56. No

It's rightly directed at people who think their culture and or lifestyle is superior to others.

[flvegan]

58. How so?

I didn't say shit about natives making a living off their trade. I never would. However, when commercial fishermen want to eliminate competition via blunt trauma to the head of another animal, yeah, you got my attention. The pelt sales are just gravy.

Misdirected hostility...

[domlaw]

63. Oh come on that's what this is all about.

"The campaign against trapping may have severe repercussions on native groups and others who still live close to the land, and work to the detriment of the interests even of the wildlife it claims to be protecting."

http://www.carc.org/pubs/v14no2/5.htm

http://www.wpc2002.gov.yk.ca/bios/nwt.html

You don't think your anti-fur / anti-hunting has any affect on Native culture?

[Beaverhausen]

65. This isn't about trapping

and unless I'm mistaken this also isn't about anything in the Yukon, which is in the western part of Canada.

[domlaw]

71. O.K.

The same anti-seal hunting groups also oppose trapping in the Yukon. The same nutcases would show up year after year (I lived there) and moan about killing those lovely animals just for their fur. Natives would ignore them and many Yukoners

The commercialization, you talk of was the the only way native trappers had to sell their pelts to feed their families. I know, I know they should have taken that job at the local Wal-Mart instead.


These data demonstrate that Old Crow residents remain deeply dependent on fish and wildlife resources of the North Yukon. However, there is a sense of uncertainty that pervades the community in light of the relative success of the southern anti-fur lobbies. A large proportion of the local economy is threatened by the dramatic reductions in fur prices and considerable economic hardship will ensue if fur markets are further affected by the ill-considered effects of the animals rights advocates. From the perspective of Old Crow it is not an exaggeration to speak of “cultural genocide” when describing the impacts of the anti-fur campaigns.

http://www.fuller-imc.com/images/Old_Crow_and_the_Northern_Yukon.pdf

Seals / Muskrat same thing (someones livelyhood)

[flvegan]

69. Hmmm...different disagreement, there.

MY (your words) anti-fur/anti-hunting opinion has NEVER encroached on natives. Ever. Subsistence isn't on my radar. Cruelty for profit is.

[domlaw]

78. Someone selling fur to feed their family is a honorable

way to make a living. Look at it this way, if trappers were to accept many of the anti-cruelty lobbies demands their would be no profit to be had from trapping. No money, ghost towns and cultural genocide. Killing anything is a pretty horrible business. Do I care that they club them, it seems cruel but so are leg hold traps. I talked with a few trappers about this (I was once very anti-fur) and after explaining that they really could care less what I thought, they explained that it was cheap and effective. Ugly yes but no more ugly than a slaughterhouse.

[flvegan]

81. Okay, then...why?

If they accepted the anti-cruelty lobbies (your words) why would there be no profit? Because some commercial skinner with an anal electrocution probe on a fur farm would beat their price. So, trappers lower themselves.

I've never, ever taken the actions of a native, acting on subsistence as wrong, so to speak. I understand survival. However, it's degrading that "honorable way to make a living" because the WalMart of the trapping world will beat the price. Don't rage against me, rage against the industry putting those native folks out of business.

It's all ugly. You're right. Rise above it.

[domlaw]

83. No the anti-fur industry is putting them out of business

I've never known a trapper who had problems selling his pelts. My "rage" as you call it is directed at the right group.

"We submit that the IFAW's actions have played a major role in the devastation of Inuit communities through the destruction of one of the few environmentally and ecnomically sustainable options Inuit have in the Arctic - the harvesting of seals.

Despite an exemption being made for Iniut, after the importation of seal products was banned by the EU in 1983, the entire seal market collapsed. After the collapse of the seal market, suicide rates in Inuit communities increased by an average of 400 %."

(400% suicide rate increase was not the fault of commercial skinners)


http://www.highnorth.no/Library/Movements/IFAW/wh-th-if.htm

[flvegan]

85. Why did the seal market collapse?

Because animal rights groups brought forth that pelts were wrong or because bludgeoning and skinning alive was wrong?

Blame the sealers, not those that exposed what they did wrong.

[domlaw]

133. There you go

Blame the barbaric natives. What western arrogance.

[roguevalley]

44. poverty in the northern climes is an issue that deserves attention.

however, I deplore this kind of 'hunting'. Its disgusting and despicable. I live in Alaska and they used to do that here. You don't need to do this. Anyone who buys a fur made from baby BABY seals is a bastard. Fuck this. I signed and nothing can change my mind. How about clubbing baby kitten 'hunts' and what about the hair of pekinese. I'm sure some fucking dumbass would wear that too. I am sure lots of people have dog and cat hair products that they don't know about.

[hankthecrank]

45. Well I won't buy this product

How's that if no one buys the product. I guess they can have fun all day.

[AZBlue]

139. Scalping was once a practice by the indigenous people of the US

and many other parts of the world. Should that be encouraged today? Of course not. While I do agree with you that (1) something needs to be done to help those indigenous people as well as those here in the US and (2) cultural heritage is important and should be respected, the issue of killing seals is a separate one. And, hopefully as we evolve and learn from our past, mistakes and errors can be corrected, not repeated.

[enlightenment]

157. I appreciate your sentiments, regarding the indigenous

peoples of Canada, but my understanding (which may of course be incomplete or incorrect and please correct me if I am wrong), is that there are no native groups involved in the east coast seal hunt. Not that these groups do not hunt seals for both subsistence and economics, but that they do not participate in this particular hunt. This one seems to be sponsored by large Canadian and Norwegian companies, primarily interested in the pelts.

Given the long history of abuses that the indigenous peoples of North America (all of it) have suffered, I am honestly conflicted when trying to determine how I feel about Native Canadian seal hunts. The idea that they make full use of their kill is some comfort, I suppose -- if that is, indeed, the case (I like to believe it is).

Newfoundlanders' and Norwegians' cannot make the same claim, however. If Newfoundlanders' feel that their fisheries are suffering because there are too many seals, then they should return to a humane culling at numbers that honestly represent the over-population that is creating the problem -- not a brutal over-kill for profit. As far as the Norwegians go, what motive do they have, other than profit?

[bigwillq]

43. Signed and Nominated

:bounce:

[laylah]

47. Looks like a hit and run to me =)

[MoonRiver]

48. I'm glad it was posted. The world needs to know. Canada just went

down many notches in my opinion.

[jim3775]

55. Anti-Canada BS from ignorant Americans

I am not accusing people who sign or tell people to sign the petition of this but the claims made by the anti-seal hunt groups are ignorant BS.

People need to read up on native-Canadian history, aboriginal rights, the charter of rights and freedoms, the dangers of invoking the notwithstanding clause and the many supreme court decisions guaranteeing natural resources rights to the first peoples up north.

[flvegan]

57. How is it BS? C'mon...back that shit up.

I'm Johnny Ignorantamerican. Educate me...

[jim3775]

60. Native-Canadians are guaranteed the right to exploit their natural

resources.

It is their right to hunt seals, I do not, you do not and the canadian government does not have a right to dictate to them how they can kill a seal, what they do with the seal, what products they can get from the seal and who they can sell it to.

Aboriginal rights are enshrined the the charter of rights and freedoms and the Canadian government can not (short of invoking the notwithstanding clause and breaking supreme court rulings) change what aboriginals can do with their natural resources.

[MoonRiver]

61. Canada can charter and legislate all it wants. I can boycott

Canadian goods and refuse to visit such a barbaric place again. AND I WILL.

[jim3775]

62. Better not gas up your car then, or ever eat any bread

and throw out all of your furniture too. Canadian goods arent just maple syrup and Labatt beer.

A boycott is stupid because it will not affect anything and even if the Canadian government wanted to take away rights from Native-Canadians they would not be able to.

[MoonRiver]

66. It's easy to find out where products come from. Give me a break.

And maybe the Native-Canadians won't appreciate an economic down slide based on their "rights". Campaigns to stop these practices have generally been effective. If the watchdogs slumber for even a moment, the slaughter begins again, but then the sleeping dog awakes....

[jim3775]

73. You have no idea how canadian raw materials are integrated into american..

products do you? America's biggest trading partner is Canada, Canadian goods are inescapable.

"Campaigns to stop these practices have generally been effective."

How is that so? The hunt continues un-abated even though this "boycott" has gone on for several years now.

[Maru Kitteh]

127. I don't buy sweatshop clothes and I won't buy barbaric Canadian goods

either. Fact. You're just not that important and increasingly less attractive. We already know what shit-heels our government is, we expected better from you.

[Harper_is_Bush]

115. Please do. Don't eat our seafood...

our stocks are suffering as it is.

And please enforce your fishery laws to keep rougue US fishing boats out of our waters as well.

[flvegan]

67. I guess that the word "humane" would be lost on you as well

Because, well, people have rights, granted to them by other people. Beating the shit out of an animal (or person, in some countries) is a protected "right" yes?

Got it. Thanks.

[jim3775]

68. They can do whatever they want with the animal

You, nor I, nor the Canadian governemnt can force them to change the way they hunt.

[flvegan]

70. Fucking bet me.

Natives get a pass. Those commercial fisherman fucks with their blunt objects...their hakapiks...yeah, you bet me.

In some countries, what you just said, goes for women. Hope that feels good to you. Let not the rights of man, given by man, be infringed upon.

Fucking pathetic. We'll shut this shit down just like we did a decade ago. It just takes time...

[Beaverhausen]

72. that's right...let the natives do whatever they want

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2006145

[jim3775]

75. Thats racist bullshit

You would never get away with making that comparison up here.

[flvegan]

76. How so and why not?

What's the fucking difference? You want to argue a point, yet you take the border point when something is raised.

Ignorant American is what I believe you said. Sort of...well, nevermind. I won't say it.

[jim3775]

79. How so: Comparing aboriginals as a group who have a right

to hunt to murders is racist.

Why not: if you were a canadian public official you would be out of a job and possibly be up on hate speech charges (Criminal Code of Canada Sections 318 and 319).

[flvegan]

82. What? helllllloooooo...

At which point, specifically, did I compare anything? Secondly, define "murder" please.

Second, were I a Canadian public official, I'd be speaking OUT against this hunt, just like my heroic leaders in this nation do against the regime we're under.

Bow down if you want, but it's not racist. Get a dictionary...

[MoonRiver]

77. You've given me a new perspective.

For the first time in the last 5 years, I'm glad I'm not "up there".

[Harper_is_Bush]

116. "up there" where??

[Harper_is_Bush]

117. LOL! "Navites" in North America Hunting akin to

"Native" in Pakistan killing his daughters?

That is pretty borderline. Who else enters you definition of a "Native" who needs to be kept under control? South Americans?

Listen, if you're going to compare legitimate hunters hunting seals - trained in humanity guidelines - to a man who murdered his daughters (with some kind of strange skin color overtones....) then at least be consistant and accuse all the people who kill the beef and chicken eaten in the USA of the same immoral and criminal standing.

[PatriotGames]

144. I think the method they use to kill them is fucked up.

[yorkiemommie1]

64. done and passed on

n/t

74. Canada had stopped, but now are starting again - cruel!

[joystick]

87. Yum.. Seal Steaks

Sounds like a delicious holiday meal, roasted baby seal and some fried spotted owl.

[flvegan]

88. God bless but you're fucking cool. Welcome to DU!

Free Republic is probably missing you now. Check back in.

[More Than A Feeling]

99. have a (very) brief stay!

:hi:

[Critters2]

148. Are you posting both here

and in Freeperville, or did you take a vacation from there? Either way, I wouldn't unpack...I don't see you staying here long

:hi:

[BurningDog]

97. Signed, I'm in.

wait... this is to PROTEST seal clubbing, not volunteer for it?

[Harper_is_Bush]

101. Hunt information from Canadian Department of Oceons and Fishies:

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/reports-rapports/f...

"A recent report published by the Canadian Veterinary Journal concluded virtually all harp seals are killed in what veterinarians describe as an acceptably humane manner."

[flvegan]

113. Hey, Bush is a great president. I can prove it by posting a link to

www.whitehouse.gov

See?

[Harper_is_Bush]

118. Are you comparing a Canadian Government organization staffed by

scientists AND a Canadian Veternarians Association to an American White House staffed by media relations people?

You're not to clear on Canada, that's evident.

[Maru Kitteh]

128. Oh yes, it's all TOO clear to any rocket scientist

Your blessed saintly government would never shade facts or engage in propaganda designed to promote the agendas of the corporations that feed them their manna.


Happy Holidays Pollyanna.

[ShadesOfGrey]

135. "not too clear on Canada"

Really? I wonder why the vast majority of Canadian citizens are opposed to this barbaric practice then.

---------
"Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace." -Albert Schweitzer
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated" -Gandhi

[AZBlue]

136. Oh yeah, not that they have a vested interest or ulterior motive.

At least I found some non-biased links like the Guardian to back up my information.

[lildreamer316]

132. DONE.

thanks...

[ShadesOfGrey]

134. DONE! Very sad!

[Kablooie]

138. Oh, it's a petition to STOP the slaughter.

I thought it was a petition to join.

Darn!
There go my furry baby seal bedroom slippers.

[Number9Dream]

140. Humane - Characterized by kindness, mercy, or compassion.

"At about 15 days old, the pups begin to lose their newborn coats; as soon as one tuft of fur falls, they are legal for slaughter." - Humane Society of the US. Therefore, showing a "whitecoat" is NOT a lie.

It's beyond me how clubbing a 20 day old pup for its fur can be in any way "characterized by kindness, mercy, or compassion".

[Critters2]

149. Signed!

:kick:

[Independent_Liberal]

152. Done!

[AZBlue]

155. kicked for more signatures

thank you!

[SomewhereOutThere424]

156. bump