Local (NJ) Quizno's offers Christian Discount on Sunday!

[Pab Sungenis]

Our local (Vineland, NJ) Quizno's Sub place, a neighbor of and regular dinner source for my movie theater, has a new policy. On Sundays they offer a 10% discount...IF you bring in that day's bulletin from your church.

Needless to say, since there ARE no Sunday church bulletins coming from synagogues, mosques, pagan groups, or available for atheists and agnostics, their new policy amounts to a discount for "mainstream" Christians who attend Church each week, and no one else.

Probably not illegal, although in my opinion it's pushing its luck, but still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I'm thinking about putting together a bulletin or two for various "Churches" that people could print and bring in to test the new policy, and maybe see an end to it. The First Church of Appliantology and the Church of Jarvis Christ of Latter Day Sense have been suggested. A bulletin for the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster would also be appropriate. Any other thoughts or suggestions?

BTW, for those who are so inclined: Quizno's Subs, 22 Landis Avenue, Vineland, NJ, 08360. :)

[Richard Steele]

1. Certainly illegal! That is a "Christians-only" discount!

Is this just one store, or part of Quiznos' corporate policy?

[vi5]

4. I'm not sure how it's illegal...

It's not a public entity or a government entity. They can basically do what they want. Just as we can decide not to go there. But I don't think it's illegal.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

7. And if they then put a sign up, "Christians Only"? eom

[Richard Steele]

17. Exactly. nm

[slackmaster]

23. No different from Mormons allowing only Mormons into their temples

Not illegal.

But that, of course, is not really equivalent to offering a discount to customers of one group (e.g. seniors, young children) or another.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

40. See my post #39. Ironically about Mormons and restaurant discounts.

[UCLA02]

183. BIIIIIIIIIIG difference....

Mormons don't open up their temples to the public, as Quiznos necessarily does. Once you do that, everything changes.

Apples and oranges.

[vi5]

35. I'm still not sure it would be illegal...

What law?

Look I'm an atheist. But the position I argue is that religion is different than race. It's a willing choice of an ideology and belief system. A club if you will, that people choose to belong to or not belong to. I'm not sure how in this instance it's any different than offering discounts to veterans or scouts, or to rotary members or union members or any other club.

If it were a discount for whites, or blacks or asians or hispanics only then it would be different. Those aren't things that people can change, choose, or control.

I don't like it but I'm still not sure how it's illegal.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

63. I think that is a good analogy

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

88. It's illegal. See my post #86, thanks to Reality Based. eom

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

89. Discrimination laws aren't only based on race.

About the NJ Law Against Discrimination (LAD)

Scales of JusticeThe New Jersey Law Against Discrimination (LAD) makes it unlawful to subject people to differential treatment based on race, creed, color, national origin, nationality, ancestry, age, sex (including pregnancy), familial status, marital status, domestic partnership status, affectional or sexual orientation, atypical hereditary cellular or blood trait, genetic information, liability for military service, and mental or physical disability, perceived disability, and AIDS and HIV status. The LAD prohibits unlawful discrimination in employment, housing, places of public accommodation, credit and business contracts. Not all of the foregoing prohibited bases for discrimination are protected in all of these areas of activity. For example, familial status is only protected with respect to housing. The Division has promulgated regulations that explain that a place of public accommodation must make reasonable modifications to its policies, practices or procedures to ensure that people with disabilities have access to public places. The regulations also explain that under the LAD, these reasonable accommodations may include actions such as providing auxilliary aides and making physical changes to ensure paths of travel. For more information on each area the LAD covers choose below:

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcr/law.html

(restaurants are considered public accommodations)

[vi5]

90. But they're not denying anyone service...

They are simply offering a discount to members of a certain group.

Again, I don't agree with this and I think it's idiotic. But it still doesn't strike me as illegal any more than the catholic church discriminating against women or gays is.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

94. See my post #86 and reality based's post #33 and you will see why

it is illegal.

[vi5]

98. Cut and paste from your post..

"race, creed, color, national origin, nationality, ancestry, marital status, domestic partnership status, sex, affectional or sexual orientation, or disability"

1) I don't see religion on there.
2) My understanding is that the promotion doesn't require anyone to be Christian. You get a discount if you bring in a church bulletin. We can read more into it, but it's still dubiously legal.

[DainBramaged]

100. 3 questions (let's suppose we're in court)

1) where do you get a church bulletin?

2) What is a church?

3) Who worships in a church?

I rest my case.

[vi5]

111. Then that opens up the other side of it...

Do they state which church they are talking about? If they implicitly state "christian church" then you have the answers to your 3 questions and then as I stated anyone can go into that church and get a bulletin and get the discount and the discrimination argument goes out the window. Only if that church has a law barring me from entering it to get one of their bulletins do I get discriminated against.

If they don't state a specific church or denomination then you would in fact need an example or a case of them denying someone the discount. Do we have that?

[DainBramaged]

115. Church implies Christian, which implies you be there to get the

bulletin. If we haven't posted enough evidence to convince you, your on your own, good night.

Enjoy your sandwich.

[vi5]

117. You haven't, but thanks for trying....

And it's really saying a lot for someone to be unable to convince ME that something pertaining to Christians or Christianity is bad, illegal, immoral, etc.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

104. And isn't one of the definitions of "creed" religious belief? eom

[DainBramaged]

105. From my post #101

The word is used in two senses: the visible and the invisible church. The visible church consists of all the people that claim to be Christians and go to church. The invisible church is the actual body of Christians; those who are truly saved. The true church of God is not an organization on earth consisting of people and buildings, but is really a supernatural entity comprised of those who are saved by Jesus. ...


www.carm.org/dictionary/dic_c-d.htm

Us heathens ain't be goin to eat at spankyurspongemonkey anytime soon I reckon.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

108. Considering I would be considered a heathen, Jewish by birth, and

with decidedly Buddhist and Pagan leanings, and a firm spiritual belief in the Divine Universe, I won't be eating at "spankyourspongemonkey" anytime soon, too! :)

[DainBramaged]

113. One of the WORST ad campaigns ever

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

120. It is so bad it's hysterical! It looks like it was created by the people

who do the "ads" for Saturday Night Live.

[Tesha]

132. "Creed" means "Religion", +/- a smidgen. (NT)

[Generic Other]

141. creed means religion

And Quiznos is asking for discrimination lawsuit here.

[daleo]

180. Creed implies religion, I would say. n/t

[kestrel91316]

213. "creed" - that covers religion and other beliefs

[readmoreoften]

220. Creed /nt

[IdaBriggs]

242. Creed = Religion. See Websters.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=creed

creed ( P ) Pronunciation Key (krd)
n.
1. A formal statement of religious belief; a confession of faith.
2. A system of belief, principles, or opinions: laws banning discrimination on the basis of race or creed; an architectural creed that demanded simple lines.

[DainBramaged]

95. YOU CAN'T charge non-Christians more because they are heathens

Does that make sense?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

109. Of course it makes sense! eom

[Untermonkey]

266. Good illustration.

[Tesha]

131. They can't deny service, but it's iffy about selective discounts.

They are a place of "public accommodation" so they certainly can't
say "No Jews" or any other members of a group based on certain
protected classes (race, sex, creed, national origin, veteran status,
and in some places, sexual orientation). But I'm not at all sure
whether this promotion would be illegal, especially if it doesn't
speak of Christian services but would accept any church (or
church-like) bulletin.

And are you *SURE* they wouldn't give you the discount on
Sunday for bringing in the bulletion from Friday or Saturday
services? They might have just tried to bring more business
through their door on the slowest day of the week (without
thinking through the ramifications of what they were doing).
When you're a member of a big majority (like Sunday-observing
Christians), it's much too easy to forget that not everyone is
just like you.

No, I'm not trying to let them off easy, just trying to suggest
that they may have merely been ignorant/stupid rather than
overtly evil.

Tesha

[KurtNYC]

156. I also don't think it is illegal

Seems like I have seen promotions giving discounts for:
- movie ticket stubs
- little league baseball and other sports
- boys scouts/girl scouts in uniform
- seniors
- minors, etc.
- "students with school ID"

Lots of people go out to eat after church. Over-priced toasted subs probably aren't high on the list for that but IHOP... (cha-ching!)

Not illegal but it feels discriminatory and that may not be a good thing for them business wise.

[Solon]

171. None of those are protected classes...

If they started charging MORE based on religion, that is BLATANTLY illegal, which is what this is, btw.

[KurtNYC]

248. No this is a discount when you present a piece of paper

basically a coupon. Other coupons are distributed in ways that exclude people. People who don't read newspapers with the coupons in them for example.

I think we disagree about what a "discount" constitutes. I think it does not lower the price for everyone and then "discriminate" against those without it. Rather, it incentivizes people who receive the coupon to become customers. When they redeem the coupon, the store makes less profit on that transaction in the hope that they can bring these customers back and have them pay full price. I fail to see how that has any effect on people who are either willing or not willing to pay the regular retail price.

If someone went to this store wearing a yamulke or sihk headwrap, presented a church program and then were denied the discount, THAT would be discrimination.

[Solon]

260. So, me, for example, I have to commit fraud...

to get a discount, look at my avatar, there are like two probably 3 Wiccan Churches NATIONWIDE. Where am I to get my damned piece of paper, hence, discrimination by DEFAULT. If you need it illustrated even more, look here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x651626

[WinkyDink]

197. "Civil Rights Act of 1964". They CAN'T just do what they might want.

[Pab Sungenis]

9. Local only.

The franchise owners were the ones who "signed" their names to the sign.

[Todd B]

13. It's not illegal..

It's a private business, they can offer what they want just like you can choose not to go if you don't like it.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

15. Is it really illegal?

I actually don't know. I mean it would be if it were government-sponsored, but private business? Interesting question.

[kestrel91316]

215. Perfectly legal. Just like the "no blacks at the lunch counters".

[slackmaster]

20. Certainly NOT illegal

They can offer a discount on food sold at retail to whomever they please. There is nothing in the Constitution prohibiting age discrimination, in fact that is enshrined - You can't run for the House of Representatives if you're under 25, etc. Restaurants offer discounts to senior citizens. Some give free coffee to police officers. This is no different.

If they discriminate in hiring or in contracts, that's a different matter.

[WinkyDink]

198. Age is something to which every human can logically look

to achieve, and is immutable. Skin color or true faith, not so easy to alter.

[slackmaster]

241. Nobody but Michael Jackson has ever altered his or her skin color

Faith, some people (e.g. Dr. Laura) switch as casually as their shoes.

Age, we have no control over whatsoever.

[reality based]

42. Those replying to your post are ignoring that businesses offering public

accommodations (restaurants, hotels, etc.) have certain nondiscrimination requirements applied to them by federal law. Remember the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Lunch counter sit-ins? Religious discounts don't seem any different from racially motivated discounts. I guess if challenged they will give the discount to anyone-- Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist, etc.

[slackmaster]

46. Nobody has to eat at Quiznos

There are plenty of other accommodations available. The non-discrimination requirements you refer to concern refusal to offer service at all.

If I were a competitor to Quiznos I'd offer a discount to all non-Christians including but not limited to atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.

[reality based]

65. From the New Jersey Attorney General:

The New Jersey Law Against Discrimination (LAD) prohibits an owner, manager, or employee of any place that offers goods, services and facilities to the general public, such as a restaurant, hotel, doctor's office, camp, or theater, from directly or indirectly denying or withholding any accommodation, service, benefit, or privilege to an individual because of that individual's race, creed, color, national origin, nationality, ancestry, marital status, domestic partnership status, sex, affectional or sexual orientation, or disability. Further, individuals accompanied by a guide or service dog are entitled to full and equal access to all places of public accommodation. http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcr/law.html

Since the State of New Jersey has a law on the subject, I believe similar Federal law provisions under the terms of the Civil Rights Act would give way to the state law. It seems to apply to much more than a direct denial of service, wouldn't you agree?

[formercia]

125. ding, ding, we have a winner.

The guy who owns Quiznos is a Bush Pioneer if I remember correctly.

Time to make a stink.

[The Straight Story]

137. But they are not denying service to anyone (nt)

[Kingshakabobo]

173. See if you can find the discount in any of these?

"denying or withholding any accommodation, service, benefit, or privilege "


Hint: think benefit or privilege

MM K?

[RB TexLa]

179. So if somene doesn't have a 10% coupon that was in the newspaper

They shouldn't be denied the benefit of 10% off? Or they make an offer to a local health club's members?

[muriel_volestrangler]

186. Then you go back to the bases they're not allowed to use

"color, creed" etc. If they only put the coupons in a Christian newsletter, there probably would be a case that it's religious discrimination.

[Kingshakabobo]

187. The law doesn't cover people who fail to clip coupons or...

join health clubs. It covers, among other things, people of (or lack of) a certain religion. The gray area is whether having to enter a church to receive a coupon would be considered a religious requirement.

[RB TexLa]

190. but you said the law says

"denying or withholding any accommodation, service, benefit, or privilege "


that would be denying any benefit.


There are countless discounts offered to people who have chosen to raise children. Guess they think if my fiancee and I don't raise children we shouldn't get discounts because we don't have to spend our money on children like they do, or more likely they just think they deserve it.

on edit
Don't worry about replying, I'm sure there is more context to what you wrote, and I really am not concerned with how much they sell their food or to whom they sell it.

[Kingshakabobo]

192. I was replying to someone replying to #46 where the.....

full law is quoted. The poster I was replying to was claiming a discount wasn't a "denial of service". While it's not a denial of service per se, discounts would certainly be covered under the "benefit" portion of the law. Clearly, you can't deny a "benefit" based on religion.

Hope I'm making sense. :)

[RB TexLa]

195. no problem,

like I said I really don't even know what I was doing posting after I thought about how little I cared about it.

Have a great evening :hi:

[kevinbgoode]

103. Exactly

I'd be offering discounts to NON-christians only. . .and you can bet the wingnuts heads would spin!

[kestrel91316]

216. This is my secret plan some day:

to offer a big discount to my Democrat clients, and charge the Republican clients double!!!!!!!!!

(I SO wish I could get away with it)

[Richard Steele]

52. I think some may be confusing 'private business' with 'private CLUB'.

Businesses which are open to the PUBLIC
are required to be open to ALL of the public,
and to treat all of the public EQUALLY.

I felt it would be wise to await someone whose opinion
carries more weight than mine on this issue.
We certainly have some serious Civil-Rights EXPERTS
here at DU; I am not one of them.

[DainBramaged]

56. Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964

Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination in places of public accommodation because of race, color, religion, or national origin. Places of public accommodation are hotels, motels, restaurants, movie theaters, stadiums, and concert halls.

[Richard Steele]

61. Thank you, DainBramaged! nm

[vi5]

78. Yes, but again...

Race is something people have no control over.
Religion is something people have complete control over (whether they choose to exert that control is a whole other story irrellevant to the situation at hand).

The first amendment guarantees freedom of and from religion. It's the same way that religions can legally discriminate against women or gays or whatever. People have the right to worship and or gather as they see fit within the confines of private life and business.

It's not right but it is legal.

[reality based]

83. This has nothing to do with freedom of worship.

It has to do with whether public accomodations, not churches or other religious organizations, can discriminate on the basis of religion. The same laws that prohibit discrimination on the basis of race also prohibit it on the basis of religion. Read the law.

[vi5]

92. But they're not discriminating...

Anyone get get a church bulletin, and thus get the discount. They aren't saying they won't serve anyone, and they're not saying that anyone doesn't have the option to get a discount.

It doesn't even say you have to BE Christian to get the discount as near as I can tell from the OP. I'm an atheist. I can walk into the local church and get a bulletin from the back, can't I?

[kestrel91316]

217. Sorry. Making people who aren't members of the "correct" religion

pay more for something in a public place of business is highly illegal, highly immoral, and completely UNAMERICAN.

Picture something like this at Quizno's:
Christians get their sandwiches for 50c.
Nonchristians have to pay $10 for their sandwiches.

Same issue. Do you get it now???

[Egalitariat]

85. You don't have to be a Christian to go to church and get a bulletin****

nm

[qanda]

2. I don't understand the problem

Many businesses use a variety of marketing tools to attract people to their business. Why can't they market to Christians who have gone to church?

[Pab Sungenis]

8. I said I didn't think it's illegal.

...but it still feels wrong to me. My theater doesn't offer a "Gay discount" or an "atheist discount." I have problems with what amounts to, essentially, a Christian discount.

[hyphenate]

127. I don't think it's really wrong

but you're looking at it from the wrong perspective, because it's probably an ongoing promotion, and not so much a policy. As I said below, deals are made everyday in many different situations, and this sounds like one of them to me. And if your theatre struck up a deal with some company, they would be doing the same thing--in fact, they already are: if they've got posters and standees in their lobby for upcoming feature films, or the cashiers are wearing buttons to promote a film, it's the same kind of deal, except that the targeted demographic are the theatre-goers attending films at that time. If you belong to AAA, you can often get a discount at the theatre, and many companies also sell GAT tickets through the company to give employees discounts on tickets.

[DainBramaged]

10. Why can't they market to gamblers returning from Atlantic City

Why can't they market to me because I didn't go to church? That's the point. Why only if you went to church? On Sunday? What about Jews returning from Temple on Saturday? Or how about Satanists returning from their fetish meeting any day of the week?

What's good for the Godie is good for the gander.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

18. A lot of Catholics attend church on Saturday, too.

[Pab Sungenis]

21. Catholicism is still mainstream Christianity.

It's only after the Evangelicals seize total control that Catholicism will be banned. Until then, they need the Catholics as allies.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

43. Do you mean evangelicals or fundamentalists?

[kestrel91316]

218. (I hate that, too - they MEAN fundies)

[qanda]

26. Then, as proposed, make up a program and challenge the policy

If you feel that a 10% savings is worth the time and effort to do so. I still don't see why marketing to any group of people is wrong.

[DainBramaged]

49. I'll just let my opinion sit and cook for a bit.

If Wal-Mart gave only Christians returning from church on Sunday an additional discount, you wouldn't see anything wrong with that?

[qanda]

51. Was that picure for me?

What a shame that we cannot have a decent conversation of varying opinions without you trying to insult me. That's not very mature.

[DainBramaged]

53. Not at all, it's meant for the businesses who think that only

Christians deserve discounts

http://www.atheistalliance.org/aaw/AAWAUG02.htm

Business and Religion?
To the Business Editor of Charleston, SC's Post and Courier
I think it is utterly crass for businesses to use religion to make money. Legally, private owned businesses certainly have the right to advertise however they wish. But I am disturbed by the increasing Balkanization of America. It is a not-so-subtle way of saying "I deserve your business BECAUSE I am a Christian." Or Muslim, or Jew, or whatever. I also wouldn't like to see an advertisement for "a white-owned business." Fortunately, this country has progressed sufficiently so that such an advertisement would be detrimental to business. Some businesses give Sunday discounts to people who bring their Church Bulletins. This sends the same kind of message to those who do not attend Church on Sunday as giving discounts to whites would send to African- Americans.

I think the benefit to businesses of promoting their religious views is greatly exaggerated. Nonbelievers and religious minorities will feel unwelcome, but most likely not say anything as they take their business elsewhere. One friend mentioned that he regularly frequents businesses whose owner's personal beliefs differ from his own. But when they advertise their beliefs with posters, tracts, etc, he shops elsewhere. Another friend changed to a different physician when the doctor's office became loaded with Christian literature.

I have no problem at all with people who close their businesses to celebrate their holy days. We have the right to follow the dictates of our conscience, whether religious or nonreligious, so long as we do not harm others.

by Herb Silverman

[TallahasseeGrannie]

73. I notice quite a few businesses

with either the Icthus or Star of David and I would think it discourages as well as encourages folks to come to the shop. I guess it allows one to tailor one's clientele.

[DainBramaged]

76. I received an invitation to submit my resume to a business

a few years back by a headhunter. When I read the "qualifications" on their website, I nearly puked. They espoused "Christan Values" and required their employees to help "convey" their values to their customers.

Shortly after I told the headhunter to do a better job on researching the jobs he sent me, the website was completely revised.

Except for that damned rotten fish on the front page.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

77. It's hard for me to understand

why anyone would want to limit their clientele in a business. Seems like not a good way to maximize your profits!

[DainBramaged]

79. It's the Lemming principle

They feel comfortable only with persons of like mind, even if those minds are dysfunctional.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

81. Maybe some have the idea

that a religious symbol implies "you can trust me."

There is a computer geek place in town with the Star of David on it. Intriguing!

[kestrel91316]

219. IMHO, the sad truth is that they are perfectly willing to sacrifice some

$$$$$$ in order to EXCLUDE nonchristians..........it is meanspirited and hateful. And MOST UNchristian.

[WinkyDink]

199. Because LEGAL marketing is directed at EVERYBODY.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

3. I think it might be illegal. Why not forward this info to the ACLU? eom

[Bridget Burke]

6. Why doesn't the complainant try to get a similar deal....

For their church, synagogue, philosophy club, etc. Only if that is rejected can "discrimination" be claimed.

[Pab Sungenis]

14. Read again. That's what I'm thinking of doing.

I'm looking for ideas for "bulletins" other people can use.

[Ilsa]

5. DU local could flood the place with

The First Christian Church of the Democratic John Joe. Don't buy any chips or drinks or cookies. Anyway, it makes fun of what they are doing.

[Pab Sungenis]

24. Do we even have any DU local in the area?

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only Democrat, let alone the only DU'er, in town.

[Ilsa]

72. ooooooo. Sorry. I know I'm the only DUer here, so I know what

that feels like. I had figured there must be more there, what with the population density in the NE. :pals:

[GoneOffShore]

11. Not sure that it's illegal

(not a lawyer) but certainly not particularly endearing to any non Christians. And as these guys are a franchise, unless the terms of their franchise agreement prohibit these kinds of things, they're most likely not going to encounter trouble with corporate.

How about a bulletin from the Church of SubGenius?

I'd go in with a whole group, with lots of different bulletins. Mind you, I've never eaten at Quiznos and probably never will.

[LostinVA]

12. I grew up 10 miles from there -- Freeper city

My relatives still do live there. A bigger bunch of racist, xenophobic, homophobic, everythingphobic group of people I have never met. Half of them even hang Confederate flags from their houses. Insanity.

Guess why I haven't lived there since I was 17?

[ramapodem]

16. Well you know your from jersey if.....

you know the people in the 609 area code are a little different.

[LostinVA]

29. hehehe

[TallahasseeGrannie]

25. Confederate flags in

NJ?

Wow.

Sounds like a nest!

[LostinVA]

28. That's why I always laugh when people use the "Southern heritage" line

[TallahasseeGrannie]

41. Well, it isn't NJ

heritage, THAT is for sure.

[LostinVA]

45. I know...

[Tesha]

133. Well, Vineland (and the 609 area code) is *SOUTHERN* NJ. (NT)

[LostinVA]

188. No longer 609!

[AzDar]

19. Walk in on Sunday, ask for the discount, and offer up a N.J. 'Church

of Satan' bulletin. If it's rejected, then it's discrimination.
If it's accepted, enjoy your sandwich, and think of something even more obnoxious for next Sunday..food and fun for the whole family!!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

38. Self-delete. Posted in the wrong place.

[JunkYardDogg]

80. I worship at "Our Lady of the Sacred Orgasm"

Think of the Graphics for that Church Bulletin

[rexcat]

22. Make your own bulletin using publishing software or MS Word, etc...

and bring it in to the store. I would suggest the "FSM Church of the Devine" as a start!

[Pab Sungenis]

27. I'm planning to.

I posted this looking for suggestions for different churches to make bulletins for. When I have a few, I'll post links to PDF's for those who are so inclined to use them.

[JNelson6563]

30. What if you have more than one?

Show up with bulletins from several churches and ask if you get 10% off for each since you're a double-plus-good Christian!

Julie

[sam sarrha]

31. photoshop one from the Church of Satan..

[DainBramaged]

55. Here ya go

http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html

[unhappycamper]

32. The possibilites abound:

the Church of the SubGenius
the Church of Euthanasia
the Church of Virus
the Church of Reality
the First Churh of Shatnerology
the Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic
the Church of the Friendly Ghost
Church of the Covered Dish
the First Church of Tiger Woods
the First Church of Pac-Man
the Church of Light


I'm sure there's more. . . .

[kestrel91316]

221. How about "Church of Bast" for us cat people?

[reality based]

33. Public accommodations law (Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964)

prohibits religious discrimination by restaurants. What if they gave discounts only to whites? Simple. http://www.usdoj.gov/kidspage/crt/pub.htm

[DainBramaged]

54. There ya go, end of discussion, it's discrimination plain and simple

And for those who think it isn't, then those businesses are for you.:spank:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

91. Thank you again reality based. eom

[northzax]

144. the same law prohibits discrimination based on national origin, correct?

so when a store offers a promotion on election day for anyone who brings in their "i voted' sticker, that's discrimination against non-citizens, right? I know of a restaurant where people named Mary (same as the owner's wife) get a free drink. discrimination, or marketing? what about my local florist, who randomly picks a woman's name every day and gives a free rose to anyone with that name? discrimination, or marketing? She picks a name out of a baby book every day. What about the places that say, "bring in your play ticket and save 10 percent."? surely, that's economic discrimination against people who can't afford to go to a play, right? this could go on for ever.

[reality based]

172. 1st message question: No, citizens can be of different national origins.

You've heard of naturalization I'm sure. The rest of your questions likewise have no relationship to the protected categories in the law. Read the law.

[northzax]

177. ah, but it does discriminate against those who cannot vote

like Jehovah's witnesses, right? does a saturday only sale discriminate against Jews? does a sunday morning special discriminate against Christians? does a place that sells pork for less than beef discriminate against Muslims? this is getting absurd.

[salvorhardin]

185. Jehovah's Witnesses can vote

At least according to The Watchtower.
http://www.jwfiles.com/vote.htm

Jimi Hendrix says it's OK too.

[northzax]

210. so you would be ok

just for the record, with a Quiznos that posted a sign that said "US citizens save 50% today" since the clause only refers to citizenship. and I can post a sign in my store saying "no Mexicans" and you have no problem? cause I think the US Attorney might have an issue with that.

[salvorhardin]

214. Please don't put words into my mouth, or keyboard

I made no statement to that regards, but rather corrected the misconception that JW's can't vote though what The Watchtower is saying these days is anybody's guess since they tend to change their minds a lot.

Then I made a bad play on words. Jimmi Hendrix, Watchtower...

[northzax]

251. so citizenship-based restrictions are ok with you?

I can't give a discount to people with a flyer, but I can ban Mexican Citizens? I mean that's the definition of 'national origin' you used.

[salvorhardin]

259. Did I say that?

No, I most certainly the fuck did not say that! I said NOTHING ON THE TOPIC WHATSOEVER!

I said that there is nothing preventing Jehovas Witnesses from voting.

DO NOT put words into my mouth!

[usregimechange]

34. 7th day adventists?

[jakefrep]

36. How about...

.The First Evangelical Reformed Ecumenical Full Gospel Tabernacle of The Lord In The Pines?

[bunkerbuster1]

37. This discount offer doesn't thrill me, but...

did you ever consider that maybe their business is down on Sundays, and they figured, let's do something to spike those numbers?

After all, there are some devout churchgoers who feel it's something akin to blasphemy to conduct business of any kind on the Sabbath. Maybe this Quizno's is trying to get those people to loosen up a little.

Point is, I think it's a little presumptuous to assume this franchise owner loathes other faiths, or is even expecially fundie-Christian themselves.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

39. ACLU had a case in Utah concerning restaurant discounts for Mormon

Missionaries.

http://www.acluutah.org/pr090501.htm

This gives the gist. This is a Utah Statute but there is probably a similar one in NJ

snip

According to the complaints, certain restaurants offer a “missionary” or “LDS” discount on certain days or for a certain percentage off a customer’s bill. One woman told us that she and two members of her clergy were denied a 15% off “missionary discount” at Rodizio Grill in Orem because they were not members of the LDS faith. She contacted Rodizio Grill’s corporate headquarters in Denver. They agreed the practice is discriminatory and told her they would discontinue the discount. We have information that other restaurants, such as Sizzler, Frontier Pies, engage in this discriminatory practice, particularly in Utah County.

Utah Code Ann. § 13-7-3 provides in pertinent part:

All persons within the jurisdiction of this state are free and equal and are entitled to full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges, goods and services in all business establishments . . . without discrimination on the basis of race, color, sex, religion, ancestry, or national origin.

This statute guarantees to individuals who fall within these classifications full and equal access to the goods, services, advantages and facilities offered by business establishments such as restaurants. The law permits a person whose rights have been denied to make application to the Attorney General, who then must "investigate and seek to conciliate" the complaint. Id. § 13-7-4(1). It also allows such a person to commence a civil action for damages. Id. §13-7-4(3). The statute is applied as “broadly as possible to combat invidious discrimination in Utah.” Beynon v. St. George-Dixie Lodge #1743, 854 P.2d 513 (Utah 1993), cert. denied, 510 U.S. 869 (1993). Therefore, offering a price “advantage” on the basis of the customer’s religion clearly falls within this law’s prohibitions and is against the public policy of this state.

We know you would not tolerate illegal discrimination in your restaurants or condone it in those that belong to your association. We hope that you will notify your membership that the practice of offering missionary or LDS discounts discriminates against patrons on the basis of their religion and leaves the proprietors open to civil rights lawsuits for damages and investigation by the Utah Attorney General’s office. The ACLU of Utah will also be contacting the Attorney General’s office and publicizing this matter in an effort to raise public awareness about this illegal practice and to stop this unfair discrimination against those who are not members of the majority faith in Utah.

Very truly yours,
Janelle Eurick
Staff Attorney

[slackmaster]

44. Interesting, but New Jersey is not in Utah

;-)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

48. I would think that the laws would be more rigid in NJ. :)

[slackmaster]

50. I would have thought so too, but you never know

People are often surprised to learn things about California law that seem counterintuitive, e.g. our "fetal murder" statute or the fact that there is no statewide restriction on carrying a folded lock-blade knife concealed (no blade length limit).

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

87. See my post #86. :) eom

[reality based]

67. See the NJ Attorney General's website:

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcr/law.html

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

86. Thank you! Here is the law, and it seems that this restaurant is violating

it!
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcr/accom.html

Public Accommodation
Public City Street

The New Jersey Law Against Discrimination (LAD) prohibits an owner, manager, or employee of any place that offers goods, services and facilities to the general public, such as a restaurant, hotel, doctor's office, camp, or theater, from directly or indirectly denying or withholding any accommodation, service, benefit, or privilege to an individual because of that individual's race, creed, color, national origin, nationality, ancestry, marital status, domestic partnership status, sex, affectional or sexual orientation, or disability. Further, individuals accompanied by a guide or service dog are entitled to full and equal access to all places of public accommodation.

There are certain exceptions. Places of public accommodation which, by their nature, are reasonably restricted to individuals of one gender (such as dressing rooms or gymnasiums) may deny access to the accommodation to members of the other gender. Also, the provisions of the LAD that govern public accommodations do not apply to a place of public accommodation that is "in its nature distinctly private" or to schools operated by bona fide religious institutions. However, it is unlawful for a private club or association to discriminate against a member with respect to the advantages and privileges of membership on the basis of race, creed, color, national origin, nationality, ancestry, marital status, domestic partnership status, sex, or affectional or sexual orientation.

[DainBramaged]

97. Hopefully this will end it. Was so simple it screamed discrimination

[slackmaster]

116. Thanks, I note that neither age nor occupation are protected

So free donuts for police officers, and discounts for seniors or kids, are legal.

[rinsd]

168. Today, Church Bulletins tomorrow Ladies Nights, those freeloading females!

:sarcasm:

[Xithras]

261. Yeah, but it's a fine legal line.

In this case, it isn't like the store is denying a regular benefit to an individual based on their religion. They are making a special exception to the rules for one particular group. You may not see the difference, but there is one in a legal sense. It would be illegal for them to say "Our price is $X, unless you're Jewish in which case the price is $Y". What they're saying is "The price is always $X, except for this special event in which we allow only this group to get it for $Y".

In many ways, it's no different than Girl Scout Cookie discounts. I was in a store last week that had Girl Scouts selling cookies out front. When you went to check out from the store, the cashier would give you a 5% discount if you showed them a box of Girl Scout cookies that you'd bought. It was a sale designed to promote a particular behavior, and it wasn't discriminatory...anybody could have bought a box of cookies to get the discount.

In this case, the same premise could be argued. He wasn't extending a benefit exclusively to Christians, he was extending it to those who went to church on Sunday. If a Jew walked into a Christian church and grabbed a flier, there was nothing stopping him from claiming the discount. It was based on an ACTIVITY, not a religion.

[Tesha]

134. But that's *NOT* what this Quiznos is doing.

But that's *NOT* what this Quiznos is doing. They're *NOT*
offering a discount for being a member of a given religion,
they're offering a discount for bringing in a piece of paper
that can be easily obtained at any number of religious
establishments (or, quite possibly, your own home
computer).

It's an "iffy" case and could go either way if litigated.

Tesha

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

174. This is the NJ law

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcr/accom.html

Public Accommodation
Public City Street

The New Jersey Law Against Discrimination (LAD) prohibits an owner, manager, or employee of any place that offers goods, services and facilities to the general public, such as a restaurant, hotel, doctor's office, camp, or theater, from directly or indirectly denying or withholding any accommodation, service, benefit, or privilege to an individual because of that individual's race, creed, color, national origin, nationality, ancestry, marital status, domestic partnership status, sex, affectional or sexual orientation, or disability. Further, individuals accompanied by a guide or service dog are entitled to full and equal access to all places of public accommodation.

There are certain exceptions. Places of public accommodation which, by their nature, are reasonably restricted to individuals of one gender (such as dressing rooms or gymnasiums) may deny access to the accommodation to members of the other gender. Also, the provisions of the LAD that govern public accommodations do not apply to a place of public accommodation that is "in its nature distinctly private" or to schools operated by bona fide religious institutions. However, it is unlawful for a private club or association to discriminate against a member with respect to the advantages and privileges of membership on the basis of race, creed, color, national origin, nationality, ancestry, marital status, domestic partnership status, sex, or affectional or sexual orientation.

[Tesha]

257. You can repeat this ten thousand times but it don't make no nevermind.

> prohibits ... because of that individual's race, creed,

You can repeat this ten thousand times but it don't make no nevermind.

This restriction has nothing to do with the (apparent) facts of this
case. There is no claim here that Quiznos gives or withholds the
discount based on your creed. It appears that they give the
discount based on you having a piece of paper and the NJ law
that everyone has cited nine brazillion times here seems to be
silent on discrimination based on possession of such a piece
of paper.

As I said, it's an "iffy" case.

Tesha

[Perky]

47. This actually is not that uncommon

Sunday traffic at restuarant is big business. It is simply trying to draw people into eat.

[Gormy Cuss]

106. Sunday discounts to all are the normal way that's done.

You can call it the "after church special" but the business must make it very clear that ANY customer gets the discount with language like "All customers will receive a 10% discount between noon and 2:00 PM Sunday."
It's not advisable to call it the after church special, but it can be done.

[zbdent]

57. Tell them that, if they don't offer a Wiccan discount

you'll hex them . . .

[Bill McBlueState]

58. I don't know whether it's illegal.

A legal expert should speak to that.

But it's a terrible business practice, sending a message to non-Christians and Christians who don't go to church that, on Sundays, some customers are more welcome than others. It has to have been instituted by a manager who wasn't thinking very carefully about the diversity of his clientele.

[LostinVA]

64. That area has a very large Jewish population, too

[kestrel91316]

222. IMHO that manager is making a very deliberate attempt to

exclude Jews and Muslims (and others) and let them know they are second-class citizens. Nobody makes an innocent mistake like this, in this day and age.

[populistdriven]

59. Every time I hire a business that has a Jesus fish on their sign,

I have gotten ripped off. Maybe because I do not have a cross around my neck?

[Atman]

68. The cross around the neck? LOL! I always love that one.

Cruise through some online porn, or look at a girly mag...every naked girl with her legs spread and six guys lined up to do her is wearing a cross around their neck.

Not that I've ever looked, but so I'm told. ;-)

[Hobarticus]

107. Our Xian neighbors in our old office building were stealing our product

out of our hallway and selling them on eBay!

Most of them had some kind of Jesus® bumper sticker or dashboard bobblehead (I kid you not).

They're architects and they donate a lot of their time to designing churches....I guess stealing's part of their faith.

[rucky]

60. Well I'm a Pastafarian

and after church, it's spaghetti for me

[KyuzoGator]

119. rAmen, brother.

Or sister, whichever the case may be.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

122. Bravo! You both used your noodles! ;)

[hexola]

229. That made this thread worth reading...!!! (nt)

[Atman]

62. Why I think this is a non-issue (and just plain stupid policy)

First of all, Quiznos shops are franchises. I'd bet corporate didn't know about it, and has probably already called and told them to stop it now that it has achieved national press. HOWEVER, either way, Quiznos is no less a private business than the corner Christian bookstore. They can offer any promotion they want. I actually can offer a good case in point regarding a local gas station/mini-mart near my house. I dropped in one Sunday for a newspaper, and the clerk had a portable radio blaring a fire-and-brimstone Christian program. I approached the counter, the guy rang up my paper...and I just looked at him with a "WTF" look, looked at the radio, looked back at him, and said, "Never mind, I'll take my business elsewhere." And I've never been back, even though it is the closest mini-mart to my house.

The guy has the right to listen to anything he wants -- ON HIS TIME. But what he had done was, in effect, turn the mini-market into a mini-church. The proslytizing was inescapable. He could have worn some pass-through headphones playing softly, or even just turned the darned radio down, positioned it where he could hear it, but not the entire store. Still, it was his choice to listen, his boss's choice whether to allow it...and my choice to take my business elsewhere.

After all, no one is forcing any of us to buy ANYTHING. If you don't like a store, stay out of it.

[Strong Atheist]

138. So if they had a discount for white people only, or straight people only,

or men only, that would be Okie dokie in your book, obviously...

[Atman]

148. Would it be "okay in my book?" Of course not!

But I sure as hell would never step foot in their shops. The free market would shut them down, one way or another. That might be via a simple lack of business, or by protesters and awareness campaigns. This is one of those things real republicans (as opposed to the current brand) are actually right about...too many people running to the government for redress of things we could easily tackle by ourselves at the home-town level. Local people should be taking action. DUers should be writing LTTE and exposing this to the masses.

Do I think it is "hunky dory" to discriminate against anyone? Don't be daft. But do I think we need to call in the government PC Police? No way. The "failed business" registers are filled with stupid retailers who didn't understand marketing and human behavior. This Quiznos shop owner should be one of them. Have you called him, or the Quiznos home office to complain? But you want to call in the cops?

:eyes:

[Strong Atheist]

150. Well, ok then... but I believe this is covered under the interstate

commerce clause ...

[Atman]

151. By the way, I'm an atheist, too...

How much can you bench press?

;-)

[Strong Atheist]

152. Lol! YOU know that is not it... actually, have been unable to work out

for about 3 years do to an injury...

[kestrel91316]

223. Civil Rights Act of (whenever) specifically bars discrimination

based on creed. If this doesn't fit the bill, NOTHING does.

You want to take us back to the days when blacks and Jews were told they couldn't patronize certain businesses (America's a FREE COUNTRY, you know)??? WTF????????????????????????????

[rpgamerd00d]

66. Print this out, DEMAND a discount, call cops if you dont get one :

[Atman]

70. "Would you like extra lugies with that, sir?"

I don't think I'd want anyone touching my food after I had to call the cops just to get them to make it for me. Yikes!

[theHandpuppet]

69. Well, according to some fundamentalists & Levitican Christians...

The owners and those who work at this Quiznos on a Sunday should be stoned to death for doing business on the Sabbath. Print that out on a flyer and ask them about their own hypocrisy.

Exod 20:8 (NKJV) "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day the Sabbath of the Lord your God. you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who within your gates. 11 For six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."
Exod 31:12 (NKJV) And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13 "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: `Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that may know that I the Lord who sanctifies you. 14 `You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 `Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 `Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations a perpetual covenant. 17 `It a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.' "
Exod 35:1 (NKJV) Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, "These the words which the Lord has commanded to do: 2 "Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. 3 "You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day."
Exod 16:22 (NKJV) And so it was, on the sixth day, they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. And all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. 23 Then he said to them, "This the Lord has said: `Tomorrow a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake , and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.' " 24 So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. 25 Then Moses said, "Eat that today, for today a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. 26 "Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none." 27 Now it happened of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. 28 And the Lord said to Moses, "How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? 29 "See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day." 30 So the people rested on the seventh day."

[DainBramaged]

71. If you remember their "spongemonkeys"

http://www.rathergood.com/moon_song/


you'll never eat there anyway.

[Bigmack]

74. Local Quizno's advertises on RW radio...

... and that's enough for me! Rush no longer lists his advertisers on his web page, but anybody know if they advertise there?

Subway now toasts their sandwiches... just like Quizno's.

[EstimatedProphet]

75. How about the Church of Buddhist Science?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

114. How about my favorite church? The Church of What's Happening Now!

[JunkYardDogg]

82. Isn't that county a Blue Law Sunday County?

I did job in that area a couple of years ago ( Bergen County) and it was a Blue Law Sunday County
All the Big stores (Costco, Target, etc) are closed on Sunday
So I guess that all there is to do on Sundays is go to Church, eat at Quizno's,
whack somebody, and dump their body in da riva

[DainBramaged]

93. NO NO the Bergen County blue law has nothing to do with religion

It has EVERYTHING to do with giving the folks in Paramus NJ and surrounding towns a break from the horrific traffic they undergo 6 days a week. Paramus is shopping mall central in Northern NJ. Having lived there a good portion of my life, I can tell you how difficult it is to travel anywhere near Paramus day or night and especially on Saturdays.

And the town does not have the resources to add additional police, fire and emergency health professionals on for Sunday duty. Something like 150,000 cars pass through the RT 17 RT 4 cloverleaf during any given 8 hour period, and these are still basically 2 lane "highways".

[JunkYardDogg]

255. No Kidding 'bout the infrastructure- it is in a 1950 time warp

I spent 2 weeks there
I'm from L.A.
I was amazed at the poorly developed infrastructure-
traffic was pretty bad
but the Sunday Blue Law store closures was to me absurd
If public funds are an issue, maybe they lose sales tax money because people go shop in neighboring counties
But they sure had law enforcement manpower to stand on the entrance to "Freeway" on ramps
to read the vehicle registration date on vehicles to write them up

[Pab Sungenis]

96. No.

The only blue laws remaining in Southern New Jersey are in Ocean City, not here in Cumberland County.

I think there are a few up North, too.

[gollygee]

84. Discount for Christians = making non-Christians pay more

which is discrimination and is illegal for business that serve the public (such as restaurants) under the Civil Rights act of 1964.

[Occulus]

99. It looks like a lot of people on this thread

would be happy to be living in 1963.

It's astonishingly shocking to see this on this board. Either a lot of people have no clue about what the law actually says about things like this, or this thread is about half made up of people who shouldn't be posting here.

I'll assume the former.

[DainBramaged]

101. define=church

from Google

Definitions of church on the Web:

one of the groups of Christians who have their own beliefs and forms of worship
a place for public (especially Christian) worship; "the church was empty"
church service: a service conducted in a house of worship; "don't be late for church"
perform a special church rite or service for; "church a woman after childbirth"
the body of people who attend or belong to a particular local church; "our church is hosting a picnic next week"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

A church building is a building used in Christian worship. See also altar, altar rails, confessional, dome, nave, pew, pulpit, sanctuary, lych gate.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church

The word is used in two senses: the visible and the invisible church. The visible church consists of all the people that claim to be Christians and go to church. The invisible church is the actual body of Christians; those who are truly saved. The true church of God is not an organization on earth consisting of people and buildings, but is really a supernatural entity comprised of those who are saved by Jesus. ...
www.carm.org/dictionary/dic_c-d.htm

Derived probably from the Greek kuriakon (ie, "the Lord's house"), which was used by ancient authors for the place of worship.
www.calvarychapel.com/redbarn/terms.htm

The Greek word ekklesia (to call out) in the Bible is generally translated as "church." It may refer to all those, living or dead, who are Christians. it may refer to a specific Christian group in a specific area.
www.religioustolerance.org/gl_c.htm

In the New Testament, the ekklesia. In the Bible, this has no reference whatever to buildings or organizations but to the called-out assembly, the covenant people of God. In the overwhelming number of cases, the church or ekklesia of both the Old and New Testaments is the visible covenant community in a particular locale or region. ...
www.reformationonline.com/glossary.htm

(Kirche) is hierocratic institution that monopolizes the legitimate use of hierocratic coercion.
www.ne.jp/asahi/moriyuki/abukuma/outline/outline_basic_concept.html

I used two different spellings of the word: Church and church. Church is a Christian religious organization, church is a building or premises where divine services of a Church take place.
www.roots-saknes.lv/Names/Additional_vocabulary.htm

Descendants of Richard Church of Plymouth, Mass.
www.digital-editions.com/

building used for religious worship (chapel, mosque, synagogue, tabernacle, temple).
www.charttiff.com/place_names.shtml

the body of Christ, the collective body of born-again believers of which Jesus is the head.
www.exit109.com/~apg/glossary.htm

A building that is used as a place of worship and prayer, it is mostly used by Christians
www.bodyandmind.co.za/info_glossary.html

Traditionally, a dream church represented sanctuary, feelings of awe and wonder or a place where you could share your beliefs with others of like-mind. A place of contacting God and spirit, the church was holy, reverent and inspirational of service.
www.katiestanley.com/resources/dd/c.htm

A local group of believers or the whole body of believers.
www.godonthe.net/dictionary/c.html

A building designated for divine worship to which the faithful have a right to go, especially for the celebration of the liturgy.
www.rcec.london.on.ca/reorganization/policy/7Glossary.htm

The people of God, such as in a specific congregation. Not primarily a building.
www.makikichristianchurch.org/vision_glossary.htm

In a moral or spiritual sense this word signifies a society of persons who profess the Christian religion; and in a physical or material sense, the place where such. persons assemble. The term church is nomen collectivum; it comprehends the chancel, aisles, and body of the churcb. Ham. NP 204.
www.new-york-lawyer.ws/law-dictionary/chemistry.htm

discrimination at it's worst. Heathens need not apply for a discount.

[DainBramaged]

102. How scary is that thought

Either a lot of people have no clue about what the law actually says about things like this, or this thread is about half made up of people who shouldn't be posting here.

[TahitiNut]

112. Indeed. Partisan affiliation doesn't assure fair-mindedness, for sure.

I find brand-names (including 'Democrat') less and less meaningful as time goes on.

[Richard Steele]

118. I was shocked and astonished as well!

How can people calling themselves Democrats, in the year 2006,
be so ignorant of such a BASIC fact?

I will "assume the former" as well, but it sure doesn't make me feel any better.

[qanda]

124. Huh?

Because people think that those who attend a service on Sunday (no where did I read that they have to be Christian) are a legitimate group that deserves to be marketed to, then we are either ignorant or have taken a detour on our way to FreeRepublic?

The same law that you all are referencing addresses age and yet I don't see anyone in this thread complaing about stores giving out discounts to Senior Citizens. Until someone can challenge the policy by bringing in a program from the Church of Satan, or any other non-Christian religion, and are denied the discount then I fail to see the problem.

[gollygee]

163. Are you serious?

You truly don't see how this is an offer made specifically to Christians? How about if you go to this town, find the local "Church of Satan" and go there for their *Sunday* service and get a church bulletin. When I see you do that, I'll take you seriously. In fact, you just find a "Church of Satan" that has services on Sundays and prints a church bulletin and I'll be amazed. Astonished.

What if they thought that white people were a legitimate group to market to and made a special discount just for white people? Businesses do NOT have the right in this country to cater to a particular religious, racial, ethinic, etc. group under the Civil Rights Act of 1964. If they give a discount to that religious group (and yes, people who go to church and pick up church bulletins on Sunday are Christians - particularly in a conservative town like this), they are specifically making everyone else pay more. That is simply illegal.

[kestrel91316]

224. Those who do not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.

I am shocked and appalled at the level of ignorance of the meaning and history of our laws, and in alleged Democrats, to boot.

No wonder we are headed full-tilt into fascism.........

[sendero]

110. Quizno's..

... sandwiches SUCK, I'd just as soon eat a Subway.

No amount of toasting can convert that wonder-bread foam they call bread into real bread :)

[hyphenate]

121. I don't see anything wrong with it

at all from a commercial point of view.

I think that we're reading more into it than is there. Frankly, there are lots and lots of tie-in promotional events that happen everywhere, everyday, and this, to me, sound like just another promotion. It's equivalent to McDonald's or Burger King offering toys or other items from current movies to boost the sale of little kids' meals; it's equivalent to getting a discount at a hotel because of your membership in AAA or an airline frequent miles program. It's essentially the same as any of these, and many, many others.

I worked for awhile with a merchandising department of a film studio, and often these things are as the result of a planned promotion. The Quiznos might very well have brokered a deal with the churches to include a sponsorship or commercial ad in the weekly brochure in exchange for giving the discount to those who brought in that very same newsletter. Both sides win in such an exchange, and it's all about advertising, and really has nothing to do with creed or deference to a specific group. By that reckoning, I would say that they likely went with the church group they did because they actually did have newsletters, while many other groups did not. If there were other possible places they could work out the same kind of a deal, I am sure they would jump at the chance, providing that the group didn't want to charge exorbitant amounts for such a deal.

I know we can be all a bit touchy when it comes to the RRR, and on that, I wholly agree. But since I've been in a position where this kind of a deal is based solely on financial gain, I don't see any conspiracy in it. We must not assume the worst case scenario all the time, because then we would be chasing ghosts forever.

[Strong Atheist]

139. Okie dokie, then you would be fine with them offering a "men only"

discount, I can tell from your post...

[hyphenate]

208. Okay, now:

"Okie dokie, then you would be fine with them offering a "men only" discount, I can tell from your post..."

Now where in my post do you see anything that would suggest that I would be "fine" with a "men only" discount? For one thing, I tackled the original situation from another point of view completely, one that had not been mentioned that I could see. Commercial advertisng is something I know a little bit about and that was my opinion on the OP.

For another thing, the sort of "discount" you propose in your post has absolutely nothing to do with the entire concept of advertising. The situation as proposed takes a food shop offering a discount to a specific part of the population that has more ties to commercial possibilities than it does to anything based strictly on religious overtones. As I have been personally involved in such deals and promotions, this is the POV from which I posted, to try to deflate the singular view that it was based on something more akin to intolerance or some fashion of bigotry.

Not everything in the world is politically motivated. Not everything in the United States of America falls neatly on the left or the right, and not everything we propose here at DU or hold in our hearts is true, like it or not. There are far more people out there who have no desire to engage in politics like others. There are far more people in small businesses who are trying to simply "make it" and live to do business another day. For many, including my dad when he was alive, the comment is they still have to work hard every day, regardless of who is president. And it might surprise you to know that a good, solid majority of people in the country rarely vote AT ALL, because to them "one crook is as bad as the next."

It is intimidating to keep up with politics for many, and so instead of paying attention, they shut themselves off from such events with only the most fringe related eye turned on such matters, which for some of us are grave matters, indeed. But many of us who come here to DU or any other political board are far more interested in such matters because there is a part of us that is masochistic, reliving the past 5 years with a great deal of misery and pain. Sometimes I envy those whose interest in politics is nil, because it would often help me sleep better at night, or allow me to face each day blissfully unaware that Armageddon is just around the corner (according to the Fundies, at least).

But back to the initial scenario, I choose to look at the situation with an opinion different than your own. One does not override the other, nor is one superior to the other in any way. They are different, just as every person is an individual, with his or her own way of looking at things. Please do not denigrate my opinion again if it does not agree with yours, just put me on ignore, and I will gladly do the same as well if you can not keep your mind open enough to see that not everyone thinks the same way as you do.

[Strong Atheist]

237. In other words:

sex discrimination is wrong (I agree wholeheartedly, it IS wrong)

but religious discrimination is hunky dory, because, well, they aren't christian...

[hyphenate]

240. ...

"but religious discrimination is hunky dory, because, well, they aren't christian..."

You really seem to enjoy twisting what I have said and take things out of context. That is NOT what I said.

What I said was, the business establishment in question (the Quizno's) might have a promotion going on with the churches, exchanging discounts for advertisement. That's as simple as I can put it to you. And in that context, what they are doing is NOT illegal, because it is the same kind of deal they might extend to other groups in their area, from the Elks Lodge, to the Ladies Quilting Club, to the Girl Scouts.

And, as I also said, most people in this country DON'T have any interest in politics, and this would therefore mean this was a BUSINESS deal and nothing more.

What is so hard to understand about that? If you have never worked in a business environment that includes promotion, advertisement, and public relations, you really might want to do some research and stop trying to make the comments I made into something they are not.

As far as my own system of beliefs, I don't fall into a category, but I am definitely NOT a Christian. I did grow up a Catholic, but I no longer follow that. And I also don't have any problems with others practicing whatever they choose to believe, up to the point where their proselytizing is something I can not ignore. Once they cross the line to where they are trying to change our country's laws and my own privacy, they are no longer welcomed to interfere with either.

[Strong Atheist]

245. Which brings us back to my original point, you must LOVE

a "men only" policy; it is the same as a "religious only" policy, both of which are ILLEGAL under the 1964 civil rights act:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=644466&mesg_id=650490

An act which, I might add, is enforced through the commerce clause, and MOST DEFINITELY is applied to restaurants (in fact, that is why they used the COMMERCE CLAUSE, so they could apply it to places like restaurants...)

So if you are against gender discrimination in resturants, then you should be against religious discrimination as well, unless ... well ... unless there is double standard going on ...

[hyphenate]

249. Your argument is nothing but a bizarre absolute

and obviously you need some sort of remedial education if you can not understand the English I wrote.

There is NO, NONE, NADA, ZILCH, ZERO proof of any kind of discrimination on the restaurant's part from what I read.

Everyone appears welcomed into the restaurant, so there IS NO DISCRIMINATION. Period. If you can't grasp that fact right from the start, you really need to figure out a way to get that point through your thick head.

The restaurant APPEARS to have some sort of promotion going on that gives those who have their church bulletin a small discount. THAT IS NOT DISCRIMINATION, that is a PROMOTIONAL ADVERTISEMENT. As I said often enough on this thread, there is probably an ad for the restaurant in the flyer or brochure which the people can use to go to the Quizno's.

Why is it so fucking hard for you to understand this, instead of trying to twist MY words into something they are not?

I'm really tired of you trying to entangle me in a useless and utterly ridiculous argument over something that does NOT exist and that I DID NOT SAY. I will not answer you again as all I'm doing is repeating myself over and over and over again to someone who just can not comprehend a simple statement.

[Strong Atheist]

250. Oh, I understand, alrighty....

your double standard is showing...

edit to add:

:hi:

[peacebaby3]

123. If this is illegal, what about a senior citizen discount? Isn't that

discriminating against younger people? What about "ladies' night"...gender discrimination?

What about military discounts?

What about police officer/fire fighter discounts?

What about hotels that offer special room rates for government employees, military, etc.? They even sometimes offer "internet only" specials for booking your room. Is that discriminating against those who do not have internet access readily available?

I'm sure there are other examples as well.

If they refused service to someone because of their race, religion, etc. then you would have an argument. No one is being denied service.

[Gormy Cuss]

128. Refusal is not the only grounds.

Pricing differences were in fact a common way of discriminating against African-Americans prior to the passage of the Civil Rights Act. Discounts may be offered on bases that aren't covered by public accommodation laws (e.g. senior discounts or free doughnuts for cops)

[peacebaby3]

130. I'm familiar with that practice, but it is different from this argument.

If a Muslim family walked in and they told them that their meal which was the exact same thing as the Christian family sitting next to them was 10% more then you could claim discrimination, but since that same family has the option to bring in a bulletin which any religion is free to make and distribute and receive the same price, then you no longer have an argument in court.

Nobody is being refused service or equal service. Anyone is able to bring a church bulletin to a restaurant. Any recognized religion can put out a bulletin (or something along those same lines such as a program) and it should be honored for the discount. It should not matter on which day the service was on. If it is not honored, then you have a legal argument. They are not discriminating against someone "based on his or her religion" if all recognized religions can receive the same discount. You might argue that it discriminates against someone because they have no religion, but unfortunately the law does not read in a way to cover those people unless you want to say that not having religion is actually a form of, well...religion. It would be a very tricky argument.

Is this geared toward Christians who worship on Sunday? Sure it is, but it doesn't cross the line of being illegal until they treat people of other recognized religions differently.

I personally don't care for the policy, but it hasn't violated the law at this time.

Someone should give it a shot and maybe you will set a legal precedent, but I seriously doubt it.

[Gormy Cuss]

135. Intent is also a factor.

Sure, if it says "church" one could argue that it generically applies to any religion but that is a stretch. Certainly if you offered a program from a Jewish service and you were denied a discount that would be clear-cut bias, but the law doesn't require it to be that obvious.

Flip this to race. If the sign said "Whites discount 10% on Tuesdays," would you contend that that's legal as long as they honor the price for everyone regardless of race? That there is no violation caused by advertising a discriminatory intent?

IIRC intent to discriminate through threats or coercion is covered under the Civil Rights Act of 1964 but I'm not a lawyer and I don't the code memorized. It's similar to advertising rentals for Christians only. You haven't yet refused to rent, but you have set out to discriminate in a way that might intimidate potential renters and steer them away from the rental.

See upthread where an ACLU case in Utah is discussed and where NJ law are posted. It seems worthy of pursuit even without denial of service.

[peacebaby3]

136. The ACLU case doesn't apply here because the women were denied a

discount because they were not LDS. So that is discrimination based on religion.

I haven't read the exact wording of the discount so I will base it on the fact that the original poster said it is for a "church bulletin". Unfortunately, the problem you will have in a court of law is that "church" while nearly always associated with Christianity is not defined solely as Christian. There is also "church" used in general in many cases...i.e "separation of church and state" They are using "church" to mean religion in that case. If Quiznos advertised a "Christian discount on Sunday" then you would have an argument.

I do understand your point, but I do not think that this meets the legal standards under the CRA of 1964.

Edit: sorry, typo

[Gormy Cuss]

161. Gotcha on the lack of parallel with the Utah case.

Right about now I'd like to see a civil rights attorney weigh in. I would wager there are settled cases on something like this. I also understand the 'church' definitional problem. My closest background is fair housing practices and there were many 'fine line' cases that were settled without finding as a way to accomplish the goal of ending the practice without a court fight.

[peacebaby3]

169. I agree with you 100%.

I know there are definitely some cases out there that show you cannot just provide a discount to one particular religion like the Utah case.

About using the CRA for those that are non-religious, it would have to be a legal battle because the wording isn't definitive enough. I have seen a few cases, but I think they have always settled before they get very far. There could be some settled cases as well. I know the "church bulletin" promotions go on in 2 restaurants near me.

Someone down below brought up an interesting thought about the commerce clause and a case that had the potential for setting precedent but settled. The judge said in this case that while the church bulletin case was discriminatory on its face that you could call something a church bulletin as long as you didn't limit it to a church bulletin. I'm not quoting, but pretty close so that leaves a lot open. I wish the case would not have settled and gone further.

I would have been more than happy to discuss this with the person who posted the link but they were pretty rude and said I believed in discrimination unless it affected me so it was pointless.

Thanks for discussing this in a pleasant and respectful matter.

[kestrel91316]

225. It IS illegal. It discriminates against atheists (who actually are humans)

[peacebaby3]

275. The ACLU case involves a discount ONLY given to a particular

denomination which has been found illegal in the courts. The discount at this particular restaurant was for members of the LDS only and was not available to people who were not LDS. If Quiznos had a "Christian Sunday Discount" or a "Catholic Sunday Discount", etc. then you could use the ACLU case as an example.

[Strong Atheist]

140. Right. Naturally, you would have NO problems with them

offering a "men only" discount...:eyes:

[peacebaby3]

153. I personally do have a problem with gender discrimination so

yes, I would be against a "men's only discount" just as I would be against a "women's only discount" which we already have and it's called "Ladies' Night."

This situation does not compare to that one because there is nothing to show that they are discriminating against anyone because of his or her religion. If someone goes in with a program/bulletin/etc. and they are denied the discount, then it is discrimination.

You can argue about discrimination against people who have no religion, but being religious or not being religious is a choice. Gender, race, age, sexual orientation (even though the fundies would argue) is not a choice. The CRA protects against denial of service or equal service based on religion and so far this Quiznos has not violated that law.

I won't be getting the discount either because I don't go to church so I won't have a church bulletin. I bet I could walk in the Quiznos and say I had forgotten my bulletin on a Sunday though and still get the discount because it's really all about getting business.

I don't necessarily agree with the discount, but I don't deal in "truthiness" so what I feel is not always how it really is and I don't believe this is illegal based on our current law.

By all means though, don't take my word, go after them and see what the courts say.

[Strong Atheist]

159. Ah, when you are discriminated against, it is discrimination,

but when it is someone else, that is ok.

I understand.

The old double standard. Gotcha.

BTW, what the courts would say:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/bball8.htm

Ever heard of the interstate commerce clause? It is how they enforce civil rights laws, and DEFINITELY applies to resturants. Have a NICE day.

[peacebaby3]

162. Yea, sure, I am both male and female and every race so those all

apply to me and that is the only reason I would be against all of those examples of discrimination. That has to be one of the most asinine comments I have ever read! :rofl: You must have left off the :sarcasm:, correct?

I'm familiar with the commerce clause. Unfortunately, this Quiznos has not stated that you have to be religious to get the discount. It says if you come in with a "church bulletin" (assuming the OP is stating the exact wording) and you get a discount. As a person who doesn't attend church, I understand that I can still decide to go to church and get a church bulletin. Nobody is stopping me from doing just that so I could get the 10% discount. I can't decide to be a male (without surgery) or to be older/younger or my race, but I can decide if I want to go to a place of worship and get a bulletin/program.

I don't agree with the discount, but the legal argument is not based on my or your feelings.

As I said, by all means...PLEASE take it to court and see what happens. I'd like to see what the court says.

You have a WONDERFUL day also! :D

[trotsky]

194. Don't you see the parallels?

You said: "Quiznos has not stated that you have to be religious to get the discount" and "(just) get a bulletin."

Think 1950s/1960s, Deep South.

I'm sure plenty of people said regarding literacy tests or poll taxes that "You don't have to be white to vote, just be able to pass this simple test or pay this fee."

Granted, that's the right to vote vs. getting a discount in a restaurant, but guess what? BOTH are covered under the Civil Rights Act.

[peacebaby3]

271. Yes, I'm familiar with it. Actually, the 1964 CRA, if I remember

correctly, didn't end literacy tests, it made the States meet certain requirements in order to give them. I actually know some people that had to take the "guess how many jelly beans are in this jar to vote" test. The difference is that only some people had to take the literacy test to vote and all of those "some" people were African American so the 1964 CRA didn't abolish the literacy test, it said that the State had to give the same literacy test to everyone.


I don't think this situation would compare in the courts to the literacy test or poll tax covered under the CRA, but if you feel strongly about it and this Quiznos refuses to give you the discount on a Sunday because you have no bulletin, I think you should sue them.

[trotsky]

298. Be thankful you're a member of the majority.

No one can make you care about the civil rights of non-believers, I guess.

I'm just curious if the tables were turned, and some other religious group was in the majority, if your position would be the same, being a part of the tiny Christian minority. I'm sure you would remain ideologically consistent and tell yourself and your fellow Christians to just get over it, right?

[peacebaby3]

299. This is the kind of crap I get sick of on this board!!! Nowhere in any

of my posts have I ever said anything about not caring about non-believers. As a matter of fact, I've stated numerous times that I don't agree with the discount and I won't qualify either. What I have discussed here is the LAW and the fact that there is no precedent for a situation like this one!!!

Please, point out to me where I have said I don't care about the non-believers and while you are at it, please point out where I even stated I am a Christian anytime during this entire discussion!!!!

If you really feel so strongly about this, why don't you be the one to stand up and go after them? Go to the Quiznos in question on a Sunday, tell them you are non-religious so you don't have a church bulletin, but you would like the 10% discount. If they don't give it to you, sue them and set some precedent regarding this issue. The OP put the address in the original post...I think you should go for it.

Please don't put words in my mouth or assume that you know me.

Have a wonderful evening and good luck with your lawsuit!

[trotsky]

303. I can feel how much you care.

Thanks. :hi:

[U4ikLefty]

232. Thank goodness yor "opinion" means nothing!!!

[peacebaby3]

263. This has nothing to do with my opinion, it is about the law.

There has never really been a decision regarding this matter.

In the case that Strong Atheist mentions, the plaintiff actually LOST when it went to court before an administrative judge. A state commission agreed with the plaintiff that they found it discriminatory, but they aren't the courts. His attorneys filed an appeal in federal court, but then they settled.

I'm not arguing for this discount, but I've read nothing so far that makes it illegal.

I think you and the others on this thread should all go to this Quiznos on a Sunday, tell them you are not religious so you don't have a bulletin, and if they deny you the discount, sue them. You will have to show "harm" so if they give you the discount, you will have a very hard time going after them. I think a bunch of you should do it so you can file a collusive lawsuit. The more defendants, the better.

[gollygee]

164. Those aren't covered by the Civil Rights Act of 1964

From: http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/laws/majorlaw/civilr19.htm

TITLE II--INJUNCTIVE RELIEF AGAINST DISCRIMINATION IN PLACES OF

PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION

SEC. 201. (a) All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, and privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.


Religion is. Equal enjoyment means I don't have to pay more than a Christian does.

[Strong Atheist]

238. Good post! She dosen't understand that (see post 153 and 162).

:yourock:

[peacebaby3]

265. As Strong Atheist suggest, please read my earlier posts. This has already

discussed.

:)

[noonwitch]

126. I know of a 7-11 that gives free coffee, pop or slurpee for the same thing

They make it clear that if you bring a bulletin from a church/temple/mosque that was for a service the Saturday before, you still get your free goodie the next day.

[theHandpuppet]

129. Give them a bulletin from the Metropolitan Community Church

That ought to get their knickers in a twist!

For those of you who don't know about MCC: http://www.mccchurch.org//AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home

[name not needed]

142. It's in Vineland. Be thankful it's not a "whites only" discount.

[Strong Atheist]

143. Exactly the point. I fail to see the difference...

:toast:

[northzax]

145. well, I can get a program from a church

I can't change my race. see the difference there?

[Strong Atheist]

146. You are getting all mad and COMPLETELY missing my point.

"Whites only" and "religious only" are both WRONG.

Edited to add: Which is why I see no difference...

[northzax]

147. no, they aren't.

it's not 'religious only' it is a discount for anyone who brings in a program. Just as my local quiznos gives a discount if you come in with a movie ticket, or a Wizards ticket. is that movie fans or sports fans only?

in fact, last winter, I stopped at a rest area near pittsburgh, they were giving a discount (it was a monday and the steelers were playing) to anyone wearing Steelers stuff. is that wrong as well?

on edit: if the store asked for a religious test, like 'do you believe in Jesus' then you have an arguement. but a program? come on.

[Strong Atheist]

149. Now I am getting all mad and missing YOUR point,

because it OBVIOUSLY is "religious only", atheist and pagans and wiccans need not apply ...

Suppose they wanted membership cards (ie: church programs) in the american atheists club, huh?

[northzax]

154. it's not religious only

it is 'people who went to church only" if you are catholic and go on saturday night, you're SOL. if you missed church to do the weeding, you're SOL as well. If wiccans printed programs, they'd be fine. I don't see how it's different than basketball fans, or football fans only? or voters? or fans of U2? or people named Francis? or ladies night? or twins? or student discounts? I know a place that gives a free coke to lefthanded people. it's all schtick. if the discount is important to you, stop by a church on the way and pick up a program. they're free.

on edit: I don't really understand why this makes people so angry. And I haven't been to a non-wedding or funeral service in 20 years (and I'm 31) are you so oppressed?

[Strong Atheist]

157. Good luck getting that atheist club card for the promotion at my

resturant...

It's discrimination, pure and simple:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/bball8.htm

edited to add: I am going home. You can have the last word till tomorrow morning...

[northzax]

158. and you can explain what is different between this

the Quizno's case isn't a direct parallel to the Suns' case, but it might work. We don't know if the Quizno's will give you the same discount if you walk in with the flyer from a community meeting, a synagouge, a little league breakfast or anything, do we? if it has to be a Christian Church, then you have a discrimination case. If it's for any community event that took place that weekend, then you don't, right?

how is this different from giving a discount to people named Mary (in the case I stated above) or to people wearing Steelers' jerseys? or is it all discrimination?

[Pab Sungenis]

166. I intend to test it.

By next week we'll have Pastafarian and Atheist "church bulletins" ready to go, and maybe a SubGenius one, too. We'll put the policy to the test.

I also intend to address this in a letter both to the local franchisee and corporate HQ.

[northzax]

167. and if they pass

will you still complain?

[Pab Sungenis]

209. No.

But if they are intending to use this as a Christian discount, I WILL.

[Solon]

175. Are Sports fans or people named Mary protected under the Civil Rights...

act? What type of stupid assed shit is this. Religious BASED discrimination is ILLEGAL, however, that doesn't mean you can't do OTHER types of promotions that DO NOT violate the Civil Rights Act. Is it any more clear to you now?

[northzax]

176. sure, if I give things only to people named mary

then certainly muslims don't have a shot, right? or asians?

why are you so obsessed with this? why is it worse, ethically, to give something to people who went to church, and not to do it to people who speak french? or Latin? or, in an aformentioned example, people who voted? Is the Macy's early bird special on friday night discriminatory towards jews and muslims? since they can't take advantage of that? what about my local movie theatre that has really cheap movies on sunday mornings, discriminatory towards christians who are in church? Heck, anyone who does anything only on a saturday is discriminating against observant Jews, right? how far are you willing to take this? is a solstice sale discriminatory towards Wiccans who may be otherwise occupied that day? Does DU discriminate against the Amish, who don't have access to the site, based on their religion? how dare you participate in such a thing!

so walk into the store, hand them a program from your local secular humanist meeting and see if you get the discount. if not, they are discriminating. but if so, please report back that they are, in fact, simply marketing. or does that discriminate against people who go to meetings?

[Solon]

178. Its like talking to a wall...

I'm talking about the LAW here, not MORAL issues, the business in question is VIOLATING FEDERAL LAW, is that clear to you, or do I need to illustrate it in crayon?

[northzax]

211. I asked a simple question of you

if Macy's has a sale, that is on Friday night and Saturday, are they discriminating against those who worship on friday night and saturday? yes or no.

I asked several simple questions, and I get an insult in return. lovely. answer the questions. then we will talk.

[Kingshakabobo]

230. Your scenario entails the customer excluding themselves from the..

...benefit. It doesn't entail the merchant refusing a benefit.

The law covers denial of benefit and denial of service.... Denial being the operative word.

[mondo joe]

243. The difference, of course, is protected class status. n/t

[kestrel91316]

226. So, an atheist HAS to enter a church and swipe a program

in order to get the discount??? You see nothing wrong with this picture????

Wow. No wonder we are nearly a fascist nation, with this level of comprehension of our laws..........

[northzax]

253. no, you have to bring a program from a church

but I would wager they'd give you the discount with a program from any community event. a little league tournament, perhaps. but I'm sure a church would be happy to give you a program, if you ask, you don't need to steal.

what about places that give you a discount with a movie ticket? do you actually have to go to the movie, or can you simply steal a ticket from someone else?

[LostinVA]

189. That's the damned truth... or a "No Puerto Ricans Allowed" policy

[Strong Atheist]

155. Seems as much discrimination as this:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/bball8.htm

[theHandpuppet]

160. Should the owners and employees of Quiznos be stoned...

... for working on the Sabbath? I don't think they're interested so much in scripture, which forbids working on the Sabbath (punishable by stoning), than they are at attracting the after-church folks who go out to eat on Sundays. In many ways that's even worse, isn't it.

[Pab Sungenis]

165. Or for the fact that they're enouraging people to SIN?

...by going to Church?

Matthew, Chapter 6, Verses 5-8

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Going to Church was something Christ specifically told us NOT to do!

[jmowreader]

182. I don't think that's QUITE what Jesus meant

Here's an example just from today. Someone came into the store and was just ripping all of us new assholes. Nothing was good enough for her. We didn't have the right paint colors, we didn't have quite the exact styles she wanted (and she wanted some really esoteric stuff--an in-stock storm door with stained glass in it, for one thing. I can get you a storm door with stained glass, but it's $288 and takes two weeks to get here. She wanted to pay $150 and take it home today. Wrong on both counts.), we weren't fast enough for her...you name it and we fucked it up. The wench called Customer Care in Atlanta twice on her cell phone IN THE STORE because she had to stand in lines.

Anyway, I went outside to load her purchases into her car. It was an H2 that had so much Jesus shit on it you couldn't tell what color it was.

Jesus was okay with you going to church, but he kinda wanted you to act like a Christian more than an hour a week.

[kestrel91316]

227. Dontcha love how they conveniently forget these SPECIFIC instructions?

[Pab Sungenis]

239. "We believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible...."

"...except for the parts we don't really like."

So, world created in six days, fine. Love thy enemies, he was just kidding.
Death penalty for gays? Perfect. Give all your money to the poor? A metaphor.

These people piss me off.

[onenote]

170. interesting legal issue presented -- not the first time either

Discrimination based on religion is clearl illegal. But the issue is whether this sort of discount meets that test. Some here are convinced it does and some are convinced it does not.

So here is a variation on this: what if the church bulletin sold advertisements and Quiznos bought one and its ad included a coupon for a discount. Would that be illegal? It seems a bit strange to say that a store can't advertise in the bulletin published by one churhc without advertising in every church's bulletin, or in the general media. Yet, the effect of running the discount coupon only in the Catholic Church's bulletin would be to favor Catholics.

Interestingly, this very case came up a number of years ago in Madison Wisconsin. As you can see from the attached link, the store gave in eventually, but to be honest, I think both sides scored some decent points in their arguments and I wouldn't want to hazard a guess as to how a court would have decided the issue.

http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/1998/april98/saga.html


onenote

[The Straight Story]

181. Discount for pagans? I Found some

Apple Valley Books

Located in Winthrop, this locally owned general-interest bookstore has excellent Pagan resources, and offers a discount for Pagans and e-mail orders. Free e-newsletter listing interesting new books relating to alternative religions every month or two; to subscribe, send your request to [e-mail].

Not to mention dicounts for military members at places, and other such things.

Just googling around for discounts and how to get em :)

[Inland]

184. But can't everyone have the same discount

and isn't it made equally available to everyone?

That's the difference.

[SPKrazy]

191. Quiznos Sucks Anyway

This just makes them even worse

[kestrel91316]

228. They're seriously overpriced, IMHO

[proud2BlibKansan]

193. Well I can guarantee you I wouldn't be eating there anymore.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

196. This Is So Not A Big Deal. I Have No Problem With It Whatsoever.

Now if it was some sort of government entity, that's one thing. But a quizznos? Big deal. The local owner/operator has every right to offer a discount to whatever group he chooses. I've seen many times ads in stores like "wear your halloween costume, get 10% off!" or "Wear red and get a free pen!" or "bring an ad from a competitor and we'll give you a free soda!" or "show your college id and get a 15% discount!" or just whatever.

There are many cases where I feel promoting religion is dead wrong. This is NOT one of them. I think we need to be cautious about what we rally behind for sake of looking ridiculous. It is possible to take certain gripes too far.

You could, if you choose, simply not buy your dinner there any more. But the price is the same as it always was, so I'm not sure there's reason for you not to. If the establishment said "your dinner will cost 20% more then our standard prices if you aren't christian", then that would be a different issue altogether.

My advice would be look the other way. It's just some small town guy with a small town shop who wants to give fellow practicing christians a 10% discount. No biggie, from how I see it.

[salin]

201. Or rather than simply "lookig the other way"

express concern, and stop eating there. Bad business decisions (esp on the local level) are very easy for the businesses to turn around. My bet is that the owner or manager was trying to lure in what he felt was a niche group (folks wanting to eat after church) without even considering that the same promotion might alieanate other customers. Let the owner/manager know (politely, but firmly) - maybe even throwing out that one feels second class as a customre... and I would guess that the owner manager will gracefully shift the promotion - or reveal him/herself as a total *ssh*l*.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

202. See, That's The Thing.

As a Progressive I care about people and have a hard time intentionally trying to destroy someone's business for such an absurd reason. So do what ya gotta do, but as I said, I have no issue with his promotion. I think going after the guys throat is totally over dramatic and uncalled for.

[salin]

203. here we disagree...

I think sometimes folks don't think through the implied messages they are sending - and gently letting them know is a good way of allowing a graceful tweaking of the policy so that it doesn't send an unintended message to customers. And in the off chance that it is an intended message (that some customers are more valued than others) than frankly I wouldn't want to support the business.

Why should my hard earned money go to a jerk, when there are other local businesses that I could support?

[WinkyDink]

200. Are any defenders of this practice ALSO anti-Domino's Pizza Catholic town?

Just wondering.

[Raksha]

204. I think everyone is making too big a deal about this.

It's not about religion at all--it's about money! Quizno's is evidently making a play for the "after-church crowd" who fill up certain restaurants on Sunday afternoons. Surely someone besides me has noticed this?

They couldn't offer the same deal to synagogues even if they wanted to, because their food is not kosher. Also, strictly speaking Jews are not supposed to handle money (including payimg for a meal) on the Sabbath. Okay, many Jews including me totally ignore all this, but officially we aren't "supposed" to.

If the Quizno's in a Jewish area tried to offer the same deal to Jews on Saturday afternoons, some Orthodox group would raise holy living hell about it, saying they were inducing Jews to violate the commandments.

[hexola]

233. The Allmighty...Dollar that is...

Yep - let the lemmings go...

Quiznos is the worst junk anyway...

[Strong Atheist]

258. Then you obviously wouldn't mind if there was a "men only"

discount.:eyes:

[mondo joe]

272. You're wrong in several ways. Let's begin here:

1. Their motivation (money) doesn't much matter if they violate the law
2. You assume only Kosher Jews attend temple

[Raine]

205. What about Wiccans

would they give a discount to Wiccans?? I'm being rhetorical cause I know they wouldn't! :mad:

[Bridget Burke]

246. Has the leader of your coven spoken the the local Quizno's manager?

Perhaps a discount could be offered.

In fact, did the OP speak to the manager of his Quizno's?

[Pab Sungenis]

297. No, I haven't yet.

I'm working with some local Subgenii to see if their "bulletin" from the Church of the Subgenius will be honored. We'll bring a camera and recorder with us to document the visit.

If they honor it, we'll move on to a Pastafarian bulletin. Then an Atheist bulletin. We'll see how far this can go, and if they're really hoping for a "Christian" discount or not.

[left of center]

206. Live and let live is my advice to you. It is simply good business. The

first thing most church goers do afterwards is decide where they are eating out.

I will add though there is likely at least one Christian at the Quiznos working on the Sabbath to serve the church crowd.

[left of center]

207. I'd bet that some of you joined the bandwagon to force Hooters

to hire waiters! I worked in a historical fine dining resaurant for eight years as a teenager and young adult. It was a very liberal environment and very rich with experiences, but even there they "descriminated". They would not allow waiters to wear pierced jewlery or allow waitresses to wear more than one piercing per ear while engaging the public. They even made us wear customs that reflected what people wore during the 1700s.

Can you believe the gall!? How unfair!

Sorry folks, but conservatives are not wrong about everything, nor are we always collectively right.

[kestrel91316]

212. Possibly illegal financial discrimination (unfair business practices??)

but most definitely asking for a HUGE class-action lawsuit!!!!!!!!!! Are these people born stupid or do they ahve to take special lessons???

[hexola]

231. Hagerstown Suns - minor league baseball offers same discounts

This topic rang a bell - I knew I had heard this before...

http://www.americanatheist.org/forum/bulletin.html

Carl Silverman, a Pennsylvania Atheist and First Amendment rights activists, says that the Hagerstown Suns baseball organization is doing just that by offering discounts to families which bring a copy of a local church bulletin to the stadium on specific nights. Some may argue that even if the practice is technically legal, it is morally wrong -- or just bad business. Others would claim that since the Hagerstown Suns team is a private organization - and that no one is forced or compelled to attend their games -- team management is within its rights in offering discounts to any groups it chooses to, even if it excludes others.

[upi402]

234. Dominos, now Quiznos - dieting now n/t

[hexola]

235. Concert tickets have Pizza cupons on the back....

Doesnt seem much different - if Rock and Roll happens to be your religion...

[NMMNG]

236. While I find it distasteful

I don't think it is illegal. A business can offer any sort of discount it wants, hence "Senior Citizen" discounts, "College Student" discounts, "Military" discounts and the like. If customers find the practices of the business repugnant for one reason or another (and I personally find this one such), they can easily show it by voting with their wallet--don't patronize that business. If the business finds it is losing money because of a particular practice they will eventually stop it.

[mondo joe]

244. Actually, no, not ANY kind of discount they want.

Could they discount whites only?

Restaurants are public acccomodations and are subject to a variety of laws regarding protected classes.

[NMMNG]

262. Restaurants are actually private businesses

Hence the signs some have that say, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" (though these are more commonly seen at bars).

They do have regulations they must follow--health codes and state laws, etc. But they are not public businesses.

When I first moved into the area I lived in a particular business was crowing in its radio ads about how it was great because it was owned and operated by a particular ethnic group. I've never patronized that business and never will because I don't approve of such ideology.

This is one restaurant in one area advertising the discount. If people don't like the idea there are countless other places for them to eat and spend their money.

[mondo joe]

267. Restaurants are PUBLIC ACCOMODATIONS.

Civil Rights Acts, 1964.

Look it up. Learn it.

In addition, see the NJ law:



http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcr/accom.html

Public Accommodation
Public City Street

The New Jersey Law Against Discrimination (LAD) prohibits an owner, manager, or employee of any place that offers goods, services and facilities to the general public, such as a restaurant, hotel, doctor's office, camp, or theater, from directly or indirectly denying or withholding any accommodation, service, benefit, or privilege to an individual because of that individual's race, creed, color, national origin, nationality, ancestry, marital status, domestic partnership status, sex, affectional or sexual orientation, or disability. Further, individuals accompanied by a guide or service dog are entitled to full and equal access to all places of public accommodation.

There are certain exceptions. Places of public accommodation which, by their nature, are reasonably restricted to individuals of one gender (such as dressing rooms or gymnasiums) may deny access to the accommodation to members of the other gender. Also, the provisions of the LAD that govern public accommodations do not apply to a place of public accommodation that is "in its nature distinctly private" or to schools operated by bona fide religious institutions. However, it is unlawful for a private club or association to discriminate against a member with respect to the advantages and privileges of membership on the basis of race, creed, color, national origin, nationality, ancestry, marital status, domestic partnership status, sex, or affectional or sexual orientation.

[NMMNG]

302. While they cannot refuse service based on particular characteristics

of a person, that does not mean that they are obligated to provide service to anyone under any circumstances. They are still privately owned businesses that happen to serve the public. They can refuse to serve people if said individuals are causing a nuisance or danger to others. Try going into one of them and shouting obscenities across the place. See how long you are tolerated before you are asked to shut up or leave.

I worked in a mall for several years. Once we had a special after hours benefit event for people who wanted to donate to some charity. Those who donated were allowed into the mall to shop and eligible for special sales. One guy tried to get in, but did not want to make the required donation. He was claiming he had the right to come in without donating as "the mall is public property". He was promptly corrected by one of the mall officials who told him that the mall was private property, and that they would not let him in unless he complied with the terms of the event.

[mondo joe]

307. Of course they can refuse to serve INDIVIDUALS.

No one said they couldn't.

And no one said Quiznos is public property.

Please try to follow what is actually said.

Also, please review the NJ law:




The NJ law http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcr/accom.html

Public Accommodation
Public City Street

The New Jersey Law Against Discrimination (LAD) prohibits an owner, manager, or employee of any place that offers goods, services and facilities to the general public, such as a restaurant, hotel, doctor's office, camp, or theater, from directly or indirectly denying or withholding any accommodation, service, benefit, or privilege to an individual because of that individual's race, creed, color, national origin, nationality, ancestry, marital status, domestic partnership status, sex, affectional or sexual orientation, or disability. Further, individuals accompanied by a guide or service dog are entitled to full and equal access to all places of public accommodation.

There are certain exceptions. Places of public accommodation which, by their nature, are reasonably restricted to individuals of one gender (such as dressing rooms or gymnasiums) may deny access to the accommodation to members of the other gender. Also, the provisions of the LAD that govern public accommodations do not apply to a place of public accommodation that is "in its nature distinctly private" or to schools operated by bona fide religious institutions. However, it is unlawful for a private club or association to discriminate against a member with respect to the advantages and privileges of membership on the basis of race, creed, color, national origin, nationality, ancestry, marital status, domestic partnership status, sex, or affectional or sexual orientation.

[WoodrowFan]

247. make up a FSM program

make up a program for the Flying Spagetti monster and take it in.. :evilgrin:

I cna see why they do it, a lot of church-goers go out for Sunday lunch afterwards (my wife and I always do) but to limit the program as they are does appear to be discriminatory...

[knitter4democracy]

252. We don't have a Sunday bulletin.

Um, what about churches that don't have bulletins. This idea was half-baked(*grin*), and the owner needs a smack-down.

[Vidar]

254. This is like "ladies night" in bars, tasteless but legal. So what.

[mondo joe]

256. That's questionable. See the NJ law.

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcr/accom.html

Public Accommodation
Public City Street

The New Jersey Law Against Discrimination (LAD) prohibits an owner, manager, or employee of any place that offers goods, services and facilities to the general public, such as a restaurant, hotel, doctor's office, camp, or theater, from directly or indirectly denying or withholding any accommodation, service, benefit, or privilege to an individual because of that individual's race, creed, color, national origin, nationality, ancestry, marital status, domestic partnership status, sex, affectional or sexual orientation, or disability. Further, individuals accompanied by a guide or service dog are entitled to full and equal access to all places of public accommodation.

There are certain exceptions. Places of public accommodation which, by their nature, are reasonably restricted to individuals of one gender (such as dressing rooms or gymnasiums) may deny access to the accommodation to members of the other gender. Also, the provisions of the LAD that govern public accommodations do not apply to a place of public accommodation that is "in its nature distinctly private" or to schools operated by bona fide religious institutions. However, it is unlawful for a private club or association to discriminate against a member with respect to the advantages and privileges of membership on the basis of race, creed, color, national origin, nationality, ancestry, marital status, domestic partnership status, sex, or affectional or sexual orientation.

[Untermonkey]

264. You don't have to like it...

But the government has no right to tell a private business owner what he has to charge for his product or services.

You, of course, have every right to not patronize Quizno's and to contact them and tell them why you are taking your money elsewhere. If enough people DON'T spend any money at Quizno's, they'll quickly change their policy.

[mondo joe]

268. Actually, the government DOES have the right to prohibit

discrimination in services and benefits.

You are mistaken.

[Untermonkey]

269. In some cases yes, but I don't think this is one of them.

Offering a "Christians" discount, and that's not technically what the business is doing, is no different than offering a Senior's discount, a military discount, or a "bring in a can of food for the hungry" discount.

[mondo joe]

270. Actually, it is. Religion is a protected class. The others you mention

are not.

[Untermonkey]

273. I don't think religion is what people are getting credit for here.

The poster said people could receive a discount for bringing in a church flyer. It doesn't say they have to actually attend that church, or attend any religious service at any time. One simply needs to produce a church program, from any church or religious service, to receive the discount.

P.S. There are Christians denominations whose members attend Church on Saturdays, so would their service programs be accepted for a discount?

[mondo joe]

274. Sure - Jews could be compelled to enter a church and steal a program

to get the discount.

[Untermonkey]

276. Or, they could simply bring in a program from their service...

and demand the discount. OR, they could eat elsewhere. OR they could simply go home for lunch.

This seems like a very minor annoyance in the big scheme of life and, as there are likely dozens or hundreds of other restaurants within the greater Vineland, NJ metropolitan area, it really isn't worth anyone's time to make an issue out of the decision of a private business owner.

[mondo joe]

277. It's worth the time of anyone who cares to take it on.

You've confused your discomfort with universal discomfort.

[Untermonkey]

278. I'm not uncomfortable at all.

If I lived in Vineland I'd simply eat elsewhere. I MIGHT, and it's a pretty big MIGHT, phone the store and tell them why I chose not to patronize their store. I'd probably let it drop after that as I have far more pressing things to take care of then who does, and who does not, get a 10% discount at a sandwich shop.

[mondo joe]

279. Discomfort with the opposition -- not the practice.

Good to see you have so many more pressing activities on your agenda -- like posting on message boards about how governments don't have the authority to intervene in discrimination. You're really making a difference in the world.

[Untermonkey]

281. Governments most certainly DO have the authority to intervene...

However, there is no discrimination here because the offer is open to everyone. It would be discrimination if the restaurant said it wouldn't serve those who didn't bring in a flyer, or would only serve Christians, but they didn't say that. They said they would give a discount to ANYONE who brings in a flyer.

[mondo joe]

283. Except it's not.

The policy explicitly favors those who attend Sunday services, but places a burden on those who do not - ie, those who are not Christian - by granting them the discount only if they go out of their way to get what Church goers get in normal course of the weekend.

You're trying to find a technical loophole, but the intent is quite clear.

Are you looking for a Bush nomination to the Supreme Court?

[Untermonkey]

285. Your personal attack is noted...and deflected.

This particular discount is no different than a mortgage company offering a discount to first time buyers or a car company offering discount for customer loyalty. Should the government step in and prevent banks from offering special rates to first time home buyers? By your definition offering a special rate to those who have never bought a house discriminates against those who have. Should the government prevent GM or Ford from offering you a special discount if you are already a GM or Ford owner? Doesn't that discriminate against those who only own a Toyota? What about Senior Citizens discounts? Can I sue Denny's because they're discriminating against me. After all, I'm under 65 so they should offer me some discount too, right?

Can you see how silly it would get if the government got involved in every petty dispute between private parties?

[mondo joe]

287. You ignore what is implicit in the discount.

That's not an attack.

And you again confuse new buyers, car owners and more with religion which is a protected class. The other categories you suggest are not protected classes.

If you can't distinguish between protected classes and all others, it's not surpprising that you can't distinguish between what is implied and what is not.

[Untermonkey]

290. Nothing in the Constitution gives Christians discounts.

I just checked my copy and the ONLY thing the Constitution guarantees, with regards to religion, is that Congress cannot pass any law regarding the establishment of a religion or the free exercise of one. It says absolutely NOTHING about giving Christians 10% off at Quiznos. Religion is given no special protection when it comes to discounts at sandwich shops, and that's how it should be.

[mondo joe]

292. Now you're even more confused.

Who said the Constitution gives discounts?

Who said first time buyers are a protected class?

It seems you are unfamiliar with public accomodations or protected class. Here's some helpful links for you:

Civil Rights Act of 1964 http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/laws/majorlaw/civilr19.htm

PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION

SEC. 201. (a) All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, and privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.

(b) Each of the following establishments which serves the public is a place of public accommodation within the meaning of this title if its operations affect commerce, or if discrimination or segregation by it is supported by State action:

(1) any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to transient guests, other than an establishment located within a building which contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and which is actually occupied by the proprietor of such establishment as his residence;

(2) any restaurant, cafeteria, lunchroom, lunch counter, soda fountain, or other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises...





The NJ law http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcr/accom.html

Public Accommodation
Public City Street

The New Jersey Law Against Discrimination (LAD) prohibits an owner, manager, or employee of any place that offers goods, services and facilities to the general public, such as a restaurant, hotel, doctor's office, camp, or theater, from directly or indirectly denying or withholding any accommodation, service, benefit, or privilege to an individual because of that individual's race, creed, color, national origin, nationality, ancestry, marital status, domestic partnership status, sex, affectional or sexual orientation, or disability. Further, individuals accompanied by a guide or service dog are entitled to full and equal access to all places of public accommodation.

There are certain exceptions. Places of public accommodation which, by their nature, are reasonably restricted to individuals of one gender (such as dressing rooms or gymnasiums) may deny access to the accommodation to members of the other gender. Also, the provisions of the LAD that govern public accommodations do not apply to a place of public accommodation that is "in its nature distinctly private" or to schools operated by bona fide religious institutions. However, it is unlawful for a private club or association to discriminate against a member with respect to the advantages and privileges of membership on the basis of race, creed, color, national origin, nationality, ancestry, marital status, domestic partnership status, sex, or affectional or sexual orientation.

[DainBramaged]

280. Wow, we're still fighting over this?

I have a solution, try Subway. We got massive oil spills in Alsaka, hundreds dead in Iraq due to civil war, and we can't agree that this situation is not worth any more debate?

[mondo joe]

282. And debating oils spills and Iraq on DU will have what improved outcome

precisely?

[DainBramaged]

284. Hooters Hooters Hooters

I thought I'd through that in for good measure too.

And we're going to decide on a Presidential candidate in a year? That will be a laugh riot too.

Time to sing our theme song

Living easy, living free
Season ticket on a one-way ride
Asking nothing, leave me be
Taking everything in my stride
Don't need reason, don't need rhyme
Ain't nothing I would rather do
Going down, party time
My friends are gonna be there too

I'm on the highway to hell

No stop signs, speed limit
Nobody's gonna slow me down
Like a wheel, gonna spin it
Nobody's gonna mess me round
Hey Satan, payin' my dues
Playing in a rocking band
Hey Momma, look at me
I'm on my way to the promised land

I'm on the highway to hell
(Don't stop me)

And I'm going down, all the way down
I'm on the highway to hell

[mondo joe]

286. I guess you had no answer to the question.

I'd have been surprised if you did.

Just another "Don't have a pointless debate on THAT topic - have a pointless debate on MY topic" post.

[DainBramaged]

288. Look back, I was here two days ago, and know what

I'm talked out about this. For anyone to think that the practice of giving only Christians a discount over anybody else is ok means that the Kool Aid is sweet tastin', and I ain't changing their minds no matter what.

Hooters Hooters Hooters!

[mondo joe]

289. If you had something more important than this to discuss, you'd be

discussing it.

If you're done with the topic, I trust you know how to not open it.

[DainBramaged]

291. What do you care, you're looking for a fight, that's all

And I guess none of our opinions here counted before this moment? I used to wonder what pound salt meant. Now I know, because all you get is more salt.

[mondo joe]

293. What do I care about discrimination in public accommodation?

Rather a lot.

[DainBramaged]

294. (Sigh) please read my eariler posts, we agree, now stop

[mondo joe]

295. So we agree. If you're done with the issue, be done with it.

I see nothing productive in telling others to stop discussing it just because you don't want to.

Do you?

[DainBramaged]

296. Hooters Hooters Hooters

[Tesha]

304. You've been answered *DOZENS* of times.

> I guess you had no answer to the question.
>
> I'd have been surprised if you did.

You've been answered *DOZENS* of times.

The answer is:

*NOBODY KNOWS HOW ANY COURT WILL DECIDE*
until said court decides, but it's clear that if the
requirement for the discount is possession of
a bulletin from a religious service, then the law
that you've cited (what? dozens of times?) doesn't
directly apply.

Anyone could walk into Saint Hamhocks Church
of the Everlasting Sub Jones, pick up their
latest bulletin, and likely obtain the Quiznos
discount. It may well be that all you need
to do is *ASK* for the discount.

And until someone tries it, all this bloviating
here in a chatroom amounts to exactly nothing.

Tesha

[mondo joe]

306. That wasn't the question asked.

Please read the post before you respond, thanks.

[TheMightyFavog]

300. There's a Chain out of Iron Mountain MI that does the same thing...

http://www.storheims.com/specials.htm

Thier Frozen Custard is good, though...

[Freedom_Aflaim]

301. Its Clearly not illegal

They are not even saying you must be Christian. Just that if you present a piece of paper you get a discount.

If this really makes you angry, book a flight to Vineland NJ, stop by a church, pickup a bulletin, and then go get your sandwich. ANYONE can do this.

That'll teach'm!

[Nevernose]

305. "Chrisitans Pay Less" = "Jews Pay More"

From the original post: Needless to say, since there ARE no Sunday church bulletins coming from synagogues, mosques, pagan groups, or available for atheists and agnostics, their new policy amounts to a discount for "mainstream" Christians who attend Church each week, and no one else.

You've got an interesting argument, F_A, but I don't think it would hold up in many courts.

Also, in what way would buying their sandwiches "teach'em?" Wouldn't local residents boycotting them, and locals writing letters to their management and to local newspapers informing them of their boycott be a more effective teaching tool?

And why would someone need to book a flight to New Jersey to care about what happens there?

[mondo joe]

308. Too many posters here have opted to ignore what is IMPLICIT in the

"deal" whichh clearly favors Christians.