Why should we expect all Dems in Senate to vote for censure?

[xultar]

We are wanting all of them to agree on an issue.

Well here we don't agree with the lock-step and we are normal humans why should they be in lock-step?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not backtracking on my new stance but I'm asking a question that I think deserves an answer.

We want all Democrats to unite in the Senate and vote the same on the censure issue. Yet, when we here as Democrats have an issue and try to get unity it is frowned upon?

Why should we expect something of our elected officials that we don't expect of ourselves?

Humans are humans after all.

Disucss...

[bluerum]

1. Because he broke the law and trampled the constitution. eom

[xultar]

12. I can't say I disagree with the law breaking..but...that isn't the point

AGAIN....

Why expect the Dems in the senate to do something we can't do here?
Why is it when we ask for unity it is perceived as lock-step mentality and no one wants a part of that? Yet we expect our senators to lock-step?

That is the point.

[bluerum]

28. Asking them to defend us and the constitution and the country.

And not let the president run roughshod over all the aforementioned. Asking them to do their job - do what they are elected for.

What should we ask them to do?

If it happens that they march in lock step that will be icing.

But I do expect them to be able to articulate and defend their decisions about why they should or should not censure or impeach the president.

[me b zola]

51. Because they took an oath to uphold the Constitution

The people who have a choke-hold on the Senate and all Congressional oversight have refused to investigate---as though there truly is any question as to the illegality of the domestic spying.

Any member of the Senate who does agree to censure bush* (the minimum penalty) for knowingly breaking the law and infringing on the people's Constitutional rights deserves to be impeached or censured themselves.

[malaise]

29. Correct

and in the meantime we should bombard the media to discuss the issue -Bush fugging lied.

[xultar]

30. There ya go. That is what I'm sayin. The court of public opinion

needs to weigh in like a million tons of brick....

But we still gotta investigate and convict the fucker.

[Hutzpa]

46. Yes, but the Senators still need to speak out for its people

they represent.

[xultar]

52. Agreed!

[dogday]

2. I guess I expect them to obey the law

And to do the job as the constitution directs them to do... This is about whether or not President Bush broke the law. If they think he did, they will agree.

[xultar]

16. That's not the point of my post.

[dogday]

41. No offense but it seems like a number of us

are not getting your post.. Sorry that is what I took it to say....

[leftstreet]

3. Bushco illegal activities aren't "issues"

They're called crimes.

[WI_DEM]

4. I think that it is reasonable to wait until the investigation is

completed and then introduce the censure motion.

[rainy]

11. There is NO investigation. No one is reviewing it. No hearings

are planned. So, if this fails there will only be the repubs changing the law to fit whatever Bush wants to do.

[xultar]

14. But they were going to do that anyway. That isn't the point of my post.

Why expect unity when we can't unify?

Why expect lock-step for our senators on an issue when we can unify behind concentrating on 2k6?

[rainy]

5. Because it should be easy for ANY senator to vote for censure

as the president has broken the law. There is really no opinion about it. Just the facts. Bush broke the law and lied about it. ALL dems should vote for censure. We should demand it.

[keithjx]

6. I agree with you

to the extext that they shouldn't do it as a lock step matter. But it should be fundamental that if you are a democrat, this administraton is horrible for this nation. Their belief systems flies in the face of so many core democratic values (and we do have them).
KJ

[stray cat]

7. do we really want them to act like the republican lemmings?

The press praises repub for their unity but they place unity over doing their job for Americans. I want our leaders to exercise integrity more than I want a bunch of united partisan hacks on either side of the fence.

[xultar]

19. You answered my post. I wanted to discuss this issue not

whether or not Chimpy broke the law. We all know that.

[MSgt213]

8. Do you think Dems can differ solutions and support each other at the same

time? I think they can, but in cases like this, if the idea is to defeat the Repubs and stop their destroying of this country we and our leaders need to support the one with the balls to put their neck out there.

[Joey Liberal]

9. We don't want lock-step Democrats, however....

It would be nice once in awhile if the Dems in the Senate would show some guts and back up a fellow Democrat, especially when this is what the Democratic base has been waiting for. What more does Bush have to do to us before the Democrats in the Senate show some balls?

[rpannier]

10. For me...

I'd just like them to take a principled stance on a controversial topic and vote together on it just one time. I really don't care what it is.
I just tire of some of them pointing their finger to check the political wind. I mean, let's be honest. No one loses an election because they take an stance that is unpopular back home once in a while.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

13. Who here doesn't think they should vote for censure?

I was under the impression that this was something we all agreed on. Was I wrong?

[xultar]

15. You are missing the point. There may be some here who don't want

the vote now. Why? Well what if it hurts Russ for a 2k8 run?

Would you fault them for that? Caring enough to want Russ to have a great 2k8 run?

So if we can't unify behind this or any other issue then why should we expect our Sentaors to unify behind this or any other issue.

Don't you get it? It's not just about this issue.

[Berserker]

31. Comparing DU members personal opinions

that are not in lock step is not a fair comparison. We represent ourselves and our own opinions.
I as a member of DU do not agree with many things posted but I do not make decisions for thousands of people in my state and help make decisions for millions of people in the United States.
If I were a Senator I am sure I would vote along my party lines against the repukes.
I would not put my personal life and beliefs ahead of the people I am supposed to represent. That means my decisions would not reflect weather or not it would hurt my chance to run again in 2006 or 2008 but it would reflect what is good for the American people.
That is why I expect our Senators to be unified against these war mongering constitution destroying bastards and to do everything possible to get our country back.

[xultar]

40. I'm not comparing to personal opinions. How about getting DU

to concentrate on 2k6?

NO. We can't even unite behind that. We'd rather argue about Hillary. WTF is that about. I agree she's a DINO. She shouldn't run. But you know 19 threads a day about why she shouldn't is a bit much.

how about 19 threads a day on grass roots stuff in districts to take back the house.

YEAH. Not personal...FOCUS.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

36. I think I got your point

I just don't think you picked the best topic to make it with.

You'll be hard pressed on this board to find anyone not in support of censure. Well, except those who think it's not severe enough.

The people here are educated on the issues and as such get justifiably angry when an elected Dem cast their vote for things such as the bankruptcy bill or the patriot act. Personally, I've still got my panties in a wad over the war in Iraq, but I haven't left the party over it. Call me old fashioned but I still believe that we can evoke change from within. That means we have to speak out and yes, complain, when our leaders don't vote like they're Democrats.

[Debi]

17. Do you think there is nothing we all can agree on?

Are there people who post on this board (not trolls, real posters) who support Bush breaking the law? Who believe we should ignore his actions?

I don't think it's walking lock-step when it is just plain the right thing to do.

[xultar]

33. That isn't the point of my post. Just cuz we SAY he broke the law

doesn't mean he did.

INVESTIGATE
HEARINGS

then CENSURE and IMPEACH HIS ASS.

Just cuz I believe it and you say it is true doesn't mean that it is.

Just because Russ says it and all the Dems agree doesn't make it true.

We need hearings and investigations that arent' rigged. That is what makes 2k6 so important.
That is why I want us to unite behind 2k6 instead of fighting about who is running in 2k8.

I can dish shit on anyone as good as the next person but that won't help us to win.

So I gave up. I'm gonna jump in with the crowd because I do agree on some levels that we need to rid ourselves of all the Dems/DINOS/DLC fuckers in DC.

but now I'm just asking questions.

[Debi]

43. You're making me so dizzy

I'm getting a bloody nose....but okay, whatever :shrug:

[Mandate My Ass]

18. We shouldn't

We should expect them to all vote for impeachment. They have given the cabal every benefit of the doubt since day one and it is long past time for them to reclaim their co-equal status. Bushco's evasions, lies, conflicts of interest, flip-flops, debacles, ineptitude, xtreem partisanship and multiple scandals are all documented in one way or another, even in the mainstream press. The public has repeatedly expressed their skepticism and disapproval -- and the public is who they are supposed to serve.

The Elite-o nomination and confirmation was the defining moment for me. What, exactly, are they keeping their powder dry for now?

[harpo]

20. we shouldn't...only those who think * broke the law

[xultar]

27. So, to censure a president all you have to do is get people who think

the president broke the law?

Investigations?
Hearings?


That is why 2k6 is important.

We need
Investigations!
Hearings!

So that we can vote for Censure and win.

Yes, I think, * broke the law. Hell I know he did. But we need clean not bogus investigations and hearings to prove it.

[harpo]

55. you gonna wait for a hearing to call him a crook? I'm not...

[badgerpup]

21. "Lockstep" is wrong term here

That would imply that they have been voting consistently in agreement upon every issue, when in truth the Democratic Party has more resembled a herd of cats (I won't say spineless jellyfish on valium...I won't...I won't).
We are asking them to unify here on a SINGLE ISSUE...I don't see how that is marching in lockstep.
A minor miracle, maybe, but not marching in lockstep. :shrug:

[xultar]

24. Agreed.

[Generic Other]

22. It's why THEY get paid the big bucks. They need to do their jobs

or they should just repeal the Constitution, declare Bush el presidente for life, lock the doors of Congress and go back home and get real jobs more suited to their abilities like the drive-in window at McDonald's. Until then, they have responsibilities they are not fulfilling.

[xultar]

26. Have we proven in an investigation that a law has been broken?

That is why it is important to win the Senate and the House. So we can invstigate and bring a Censure vote and win it.

[Generic Other]

32. Even Spector seems to think laws were violated

He said his vote to authorize war on Iraq did not include permission to illegally spy on Americans. Bush was not goven carte blanche to suspend all laws.

[xultar]

35. THINKS and PROVEN are too different things. He thinks but RIGGS

the hearings so that can't be investigated. Because once it is investigated fully the facts come out. When the facts come out then people can see a law has been broken.

When it is PROVED that the law has been broken then we have to Censure...hell IMPEACH the fucker.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

23. This has nothing to do with being in lockstep. This is about honoring

our Constitution and rule of law. I don't expect anything less than that from anyone, Democrat or Republican. Period.

[xultar]

25. Has it been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the law has

been broken.

Where's the investigation, Courts? etc. Don't you need that before you can pronounce that a law has been broken must one be found guilty first.

Now yes we all know they are guilty. But you and me saying it is different from a court saying it.

[bluerum]

34. No one will be held accountable if there is not oppostion to a lawless

executive.

The congress and senate are supposed to check the executive branch. Thats what they are fighting for. To give that up, to let the exutive branch have free an full rein is to turn our government into a dictatorship. A one man show.

This country was not founded to be a dictatorship. If you want to turn it into one, you let * and his gang of theiving scum keep doing what they are doing. Thats why there needs to be an investigation and an effort to halt the illegal activities of the president.

[xultar]

38. OK you must not be Black. The system is stacked against us to

investigate. Don't you get that.

How do you hold someone accountable for being lawless if they rigg the system?

You can't.

Even so. You still have to prove it.

You can't just say. He broke the law. End of Story. There must be proof. YOu and I in agreement doesn't make it proof.

That is why there are rigged hearings.

That is what makes 2k6 so important.

[bluerum]

53. 2k6 is important. Feingold if salting the mine. eom

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

45. By issuing the Resolution, Feingold, in his floor speech said that

investigations should follow before the Resolution should be put to a vote. He is trying to get things into motion. If you haven't heard his speech, please find the link. It should be on the first page of GD.

[MellowOne]

37. Evil will provail

AS long as good men do nothing.

[xultar]

39. Evil will also prevail if there is no buredon of proof. Evil can blame

you for shit and then make it so.

Just like they did to Clinton.

They had their investigaitons, hearings, and such. That outted the facts and made them truth.

We need to do the same. We can't just say he broke the law and make it so. I agree the fucker did break the law.
The system is rigged. That is why 2k6 is so important.

[Mandate My Ass]

42. 2k6 will come and go and nothing will change

Until and unless dems demand an investigation into 2k, 2k2 and 2k4, you can kiss 2k6 goodbye. Nobody will touch this. Diebold, ES&S, the whole shebang is the elephant in the living room that nobody will acknowledge. Bushco has repeatedly defined the parameters of any investigation launched and repubs are not put under oath. There will be no "proof" without a legitimate investigation which I have yet to see since 2001, most notoriously the 9/11 whitewash.

The vote belongs to the republicans and the dems are just honky dorey with that. It gives them the excuse to "appeal to the middle" and collect fat paychecks for doing nothing for their constituents.

2k6 is the mirage that the other elections were, and the same anomalies and exit poll inconsistencies will be explained away as tin foil hat territory by both sides of the aisle. :eyes:

[lastknowngood]

44. Because it's there JOB! It's what the people pay them for

n/t

[liveoaktx]

47. One reason is that Corporate Media spins this as Dems being unsure

and hesitant

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

48. I certainly don't expect them to. And, they shouldn't expect me

to vote for them.

[Jon8503]

49. A huge difference between us disagreeing and the dems in the

senate. When the idea gets to their level & certainly depending on circumstances, they need to take a stand and stand united. I believe and of course my own opinion but this is one in which the time has come they should do so.

But we know they or rather a percentage of them are afraid to do that.

[Vidar]

50. We don't expect it. We expect them to weasel and waffle like they do.

Feinglod, Boxer, Conyers & his thirty odd supporters are about the only patriots left in office.

[Generator]

54. Why indeed?

They need to make sure they don't risk their careers! Screw America. And remember, since you are on DU and a Democrat you must vote for them, no matter what! I hear the Republicans are even worse. THE HORROR.

[Coexist]

56. because we are 80,000 and they are 48?

and there are no trolls in the Senate?