Favorite Ayn Rand quote?

[Deja Q]

"Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life."

Funny how Libertarians love this stuff, but can't fathom how offshoring means that a man is sacrificing others to himself... :shrug:

You can imagine how many "Libertarians" won't be signing up for the military either; that lot is tantamount to anarchists. Fun to talk to, but they have no sense of loyalty. Except for themselves, and they break their own moral codes to BE happy. Which is irrational too... but that's because we're human.


(well, as far as one can take a Rand quote and try to think anything intersting behind it. The trouble with Rand is, and this is a fact, her comments are only one-dimensional. And her followers often enough reflect that and go out of their way to spin facts to fit their own viewpoint...)

[acmejack]

1. The only one I know

"Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities (and the smallest minority on earth is the individual)." (Ayn Rand)

[Warpy]

2. I read her miserable excuses for novels when I was 16

and I never looked back, except to relish the silly giggles in which I finished "Atlas Shrugged," the last and worst of the bad lot. I kept trying to see those hard bitten, driven characters trying to deal with whiny toddlers and laughing my ass off.

As for quotes from that twisted old harpy, why bother? She was a bitter old reactionary and the sooner she's forgotten, the better.

[Terran1212]

4. Ayn Rand cults...

[salvorhardin]

8. Ah, but at least Atlas Shrugged meant that...

RUSH would give us 2112. :-)

[CBGLuthier]

15. Anthem, not Atlas Shrugged

Atlas Shrugged was OK until I started getting the jist of what she was saying.

I still kind of like The Fountainhead. As a novel not a political diatribe.

[salvorhardin]

22. Ah, my bad

It's been a long, long time since I read those books.

[question everything]

25. I liked "We, the Living"

I think this was her first and was more of a novel and less of a manifesto

[stanwyck]

26. Your witty diatribe

is what every rational person experienced. You read Ayn Rand. And then you grow up. I totally agree with your assessment.

[Coyote_Bandit]

3. "The End"? n/t

[Sparkly]

7. lol

:spray:

[DBoon]

5. floating head of Ayn Rand

http://saintaardvarkthecarpeted.com/ayn_rand/

[baldguy]

6. You can either be an Objectivist, or a Christian - not both.

For that matter, you can either be an Objectivist, or an adult. Funny how that works.

[Ladyhawk]

9. My brother is an Ayn Rand Objectivist.

He once tried to get me to read Atlas Shrugged. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti. Okay, I didn't, but once I figured out what Ayn Rand advocated, I realized she fills the same needs for my brother that Limbaugh fills: She makes it okay for him to behave like a greedy asshole. After all, white males have so few opportunities in this society. :eyes:

[soothsayer]

36. So's my dentist. Oy veh!

[silverweb]

10. Funny.

"Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life."

This is actually an easy philosophy to accept as "enlightened self interest." As such, I have no problem with it and if you accept the whole thing, it isn't that much different from the Golden Rule.

But like all other fundamentalist zealots, radical Libertarians cherrypick, leaving out the parts they don't like. What they choose to ignore is the most important part: "...nor sacrificing others to himself."

Every wrong thing we seeing happening has happened because people sacrifice the good of others to their own wants.

[toddaa]

11. Slow day on DU, time to bash some libertarians

When you put the word "Libertarians" in quotes, I can't be sure if you are attacking goofballs like Neal Boortz, who claims to be libertarian but goes out of his way to not act like one, or you are attacking real libertarians, like Justin Raimondo at Antiwar.com, who is probably far more consistant in his antiwar stance than the DINOs in Congress who will sell their convictions to the highest bidder as long as they can keep their cush congressional committee appointment.

Finally, Ayn Rand was never a libertarian. Subcomandante Marcos, on the other hand, is a libertarian. Perhaps, libertarianism is just a bit more complex than the caricature that is often portrayed on DU.

[Terran1212]

19. Bashing "objectivism" not Libertarians

[darkmaestro019]

12. I must say I loved Anthem.

I know, she meant it as anticommunist, or what not--but I believe that sometimes the Art is not made by the artist, but through him or her. Anthem cannot help who gave it birth; no matter what she meant I thought it was a beautiful and heartbreaking statement about the preciousness of individuality. I know full well that what I get out of it is not what she meant to put into it, but again, sometimes the art outgrows the artist.

[mitchum]

14. It's a rare thing to hear "Anthem" and "art" in the same sentence...

deservedly rare

[mitchum]

13. "Since I'm not pretty, I must be smart"...

you just know that deluded twit told herself that comforting little lie every day of her deluded life.

[Mnemosyne]

16. Simply because we may disagree with someone's

philosophy, does not negate every word they ever speak. Apparently there are some here that would ignore clear vision if it does not come from an approved source.

I find this quote prophetic though I deeply disagree with her philosophies.

"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force. " : Ayn Rand in "The Nature of Government"

Coming soon to any city near you. Sound familiar yet?:shrug:

[Terran1212]

18. Her quote comes with an ignorance of history, though

Explain to me how the 20th century was this dark bleak hole of totalitarianism (which in Rand's case means taxes and public smoking bans) and the earlier centuries of Crusades and Genghis Khan were not "the stage where government is free to do anything it pleases"

Rand pretends to be totally objective and rational-thinking in a way that isolates any purpose to the universe -- but in reality, she was just a woman who was upset that people told her she couldn't be selfish.

She believes completely in a historical goal and purpose -- it just has to be her own and no one else's.

[Mnemosyne]

21. I only like the way it so aptly applies in the now.

She can bite me in any other decade from what I understand of her works. Of course many, maybe most governments/leaders throughout the ages have fit this quote no doubt at all.

I can't debate Rand's ignorance or anything else about her. I do not know enough of her to do so. I attempted to read her stuff years ago, age 15 or so, and just never got into it. It sounds as if I did not miss much.


I just like the quote as it relates now to this government and it's ever widening oppression of the citizenry. I only want the current madness to end, yesterday if it was possible.

[Terran1212]

23. I feel you there

[Mnemosyne]

35. It shouldn't be so. n/t

[harlinnchi]

30. Who better represents the 'politics of pull' than Cheney? Who is a better

...looter?

[Mnemosyne]

38. Cheney - world's biggest welfare queen, but with power!

Looter? I thought you said shooter! LOL

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[bobbieinok]

17. rarely mentioned--Greenspan was her student/disciple

[G2099]

20. Human being are by nature . . .

Social and collective creatures. Always was, always will be. We not only have a individual part of us but a social and collective part of us. Just think of all the building and construction that a individual could not do alone that took a collective mass of people to accomplish.

Rand's Objectivism wants to negate the social and collective part of humanity and being human.

[Deja Q]

31. Bingo. That's the part of human nature Libertarians refuse to acknowledge

Though they readily accept every other part.

As usual, one dimensional thinking.

Per your description of Rand's objectivism, that puts her in the same league as hitler, does she not?

[sweetheart]

24. "who is john gault?"

"who is john gault?" of course,
would be the quote, i like best of her romantic metaphor
when the really bright guy walks off the force,
she's left without romanitic dreams, far away, evermore.
What could gault have done had he stayed a source,
oppenhiemer and the boys could have insisted, "No more.",
and instead we have loads of war crimes of course,
subverting the state like when they cheated Al Gore.

We could use a few john gaults,
if holding them back keeps the empire at bay,
a great humble soul without faults,
to walk off the job to stop neocons war play,
as if it matters, for biz' zealots hardly not,
they're utterly delirious with the profits they got.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. Ayn Rand wrote Bodice Rippers for capitalists.

"Is that a wallet in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?"

[Squeech]

28. DING DING DING

We have a winner!

I have had occasion to defend Rand on this board, on the grounds that she did real clearly identify a specific strain of shithead. The bad guys in Rand novels attain power by sucking up, by failing upward, by wrapping themselves in bogus piety, and by cheating those who trust them. The tragic flaw of Ayn Rand is, she neglected to notice the extent to which her real world heroes acted exactly like the bad guys in her novels. For example, before she died she claimed that Ronald Reagan would make a great president. (I wonder how she felt about the BFEE. George41 was a known quantity in her day.)

[XanaDUer]

29. Best. Post. All. Night.

LOL!

[Deja Q]

32. The answer to either is "Yes".

/unintentionallysexist

:rofl:

[Ron Mexico]

33. "I can't breathe, my chest hurts and my left arm has gone numb."

I find it amusing that she was buried in Valhalla. Seriously.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=851

[Deja Q]

34. Self-proclaimed heroes are no heroes at all.

Of course, we live in a society where major league sports figures and actors are perceived as heroes too...

Bury 'em all in Valhalla... just bring in a few more earthworms and let them prosper too.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. That's like asking me what my favorite 80s hair metal song is.

You could be here a while.

[marions ghost]

39. interesting topic--relevant to our situation today

The philosophy of Ayn Rand vs. the philosophy of Thomas Jefferson:

--------------------
"And now I see the face of god, and I raise this god over the earth, this god whom men have sought since men came into being, this god who will grant them joy and peace and pride. This god, this one word, "I." --Ayn Rand, Anthem

The philosophy of selfishness, in fact, replaces a sense of morality which identifies the individual with one's fellow man, and substitutes a rationalization for an exclusive concern with oneself. It is viewed as "moral" providing one permits everyone else to adhere to the same sense of self-concern. Morality then consists in a respectful isolation and alienation from everyone else. Everyone thinks only of themselves, and considers it moral if everyone else has the right to think only of themselves also. One individual will help a second only if it is in some way to the benefit of the first individual.

Jefferson embraced no such all-for-myself individualism. He clearly distinguished between a society of people who willingly work together and the isolated individualism of those who think only of themselves.

"Every man cannot have his way in all things. If his opinion prevails at some times, he should acquiesce on seeing that of others preponderate at other times. Without this mutual disposition we are disjointed individuals, but not a society." --Thomas Jefferson to John Dickinson, 1801.

A corollary of this philosophy of selfishness is that one should not use another person for one's own ends -- which sounds nice, until one realizes that social interaction means that one is always using others for one's own ends. Even if one person helps a second only if it benefits the first, that first can be said to be "using" the second for his own benefit. Thus, this corollary is a mere illusion. The only genuine moral relationship with others is where one acts responsibly towards the other. And since there is NO responsibility to others in selfishness, this corollary becomes a smoke-screen for the most overt use of other people in the name of self-interest. Cutting through the sophisms, it becomes obvious that there can be no morality in dealing with others apart from a sense of responsibility towards them. If one's sense of morality includes only whatever serves one's own self-interest, then morality has been eradicated by self-interest."

From article at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7842/otj40.htm


-----Is this the basic difference between Conservatives and Liberals?
.....A philosophy of selfish action vs cooperative action?

[DBoon]

40. In terms of psychology, I think there is something to offer

People do use fraud and force to dominate and oppress. Depriving people of faith in their own rational abilities is a way of dis-empowering them. I knew someone of otherwise impeccable liberal credentials who swore by Nathaniel Branden's psychology.

As a political and economic "philosophy" I find her extremely dangerous. She conflates liberty with making money, and in the process degrades liberty.

She is treated as a hero by many Silicon Valley millionaires who fancy themselves "libertarians". See http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n35_v13/ai_19807022 :

"If a decade ago students at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology could be seen lugging around copies of Rand's novel The Fountainhead, today many of the same guys are pulling down million-dollar-a-year salaries in a tiny pocket of economic affluence known as Silicon Valley"

One reason why (with the exception of Bill Gates) none of these insanely wealthy individuals has engaged in charitable enterprises in the same way that many robber barons of 100 years prior. Andrew Carnegie started a foundation, and the beginning of our public library system. Larry Ellison has done absolutely nothing.

Her net influence is very negative just for this reason.

[minkyboodle]

41. logical extension of her pseudo-philosophy

Objectivism sounds great to young privileged kids at the
top of the class structure but IMO it is a horrendous (and unoriginal)
philosophy. This quote by Rand does a nice job of showing
the teeth behind all the flowing ego worship...

"(The Native Americans) didn't have any rights to the land and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights which they had not conceived and were not using.... What was it they were fighting for, if they opposed white men on this continent? For their wish to continue a primitive existence, their "right" to keep part of the earth untouched, unused and not even as property, just keep everybody out so that you will live practically like an animal, or maybe a few caves above it. Any white person who brought the element of civilization had the right to take over this continent."

Source: "Q and A session following her Address To The Graduating Class Of The United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, March 6, 1974"

[WinkyDink]

42. "...his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life."

Not sure where the "moral" part is here.

But I enjoy the heck out of the AR movie starring Gary Cooper and Patricia O'Neal, with my knowing they were having an affair!