Maybe somebody can tell me how many Iraqis died in our Civil War.

[louis c]

I keep hearing from the Bush apologists that we had to fight for ten years for our independence and then struggle to form a constitution in 1789. After that, 70 years later we had to fight a Civil War to make this country into what it is today.

Be patient, they tell us, Iraq's democracy will take time.

What utter bull shit.

The French fought along side us to drive out the British and then left. Just as we should have done after Saddam was removed. By the way, the French fought against the British in 1777 because it was in their best interest.

Every other country in the world minded their own business.

During our Civil War, no foreign armies got involved. Certainly no Iraqis. Do you know why no Iraqis fought in our Civil War? Because they were smart enough to mind their own damn business, that's why.

[shenmue]

1. I believe the number is close to...

Zero.

:crazy:

[northzax]

2. or, I guess, it could have been

becuase there was no Iraq at the time? maybe? don't forget the Hessians fighting on behalf of King George.

And other countries did get involved in the Civil War, just not overtly militarily. And it took some serious politicking on the part of Lincoln's government to keep the Brits out of the war, on the side of the South. (that and slavery, it was tough to justify that at home)

[tocqueville]

3. well it's somewhat different...

1) it's true that Louis the XVI backed up Lafayette because he thought that it was a French interest against the British, but Lafayette (and others) had the same ideals than the American Founding Fathers. Lafayette became later an active part of the French revolution, and not for own winning, but by conviction.

2) the American rebellion wouldn't have won without French professional support, specially at sea. Probably it would probably have won in the long run (because these rebellions always do) but the outcome could have been very different and the US be sort of a vast Canada today.

3) The American civil war was primarily driven by economical interests and not by wonderful ideals. Short after its end, segregation was "constitutional" and legal and lasted until the sixties. South Africa was just a bit worse.

4) Iraq didn't exist during the civil war

[louis c]

4. I hope you get my point

I know all about Iraq and the Balfour declaration in 1917 carving up the Middle East after WWI.

Persia did exist in 1860 and there has always been a Baghdad.

The whole point is that a nation has to be crazy to get in the middle of a Civil War in another country. Viet Nam should have taught us that.

I hope my sarcasm isn't lost on all of you.

[Erika]

5. George Washington warned us about getting involved

in other nation's affairs.

Yes, W was insane/corporate profit driven to involve us in this war.