My God, I've FINALLY figured out Bush and the High Neocons

[Enraged_Ape]

You know, all this time I thought the neocons were a) evil, b) stupid, c) greedy, d) organically crazy, e) religiously crazy, or f) some combination of the above. And there are many neocons who indeed still are all or some of that. (cough...Santorum...cough.) But I don't think any of those motivators are necessarily what drive the REAL string-pullers, the REAL powers-that-be, the REAL Wizards behind the curtain. And now I'm ashamed that I ever thought it was all that mundane.

I think what motivates the Bushes, the Cheneys, Rice, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle and all the others that seem to be ringing a curtain of doom down on our heads every single day basically boils down to just five basic ideas, which these people believe in above all and with the same fervor that your average fundamentalist Christian believes in the existence of a white, bearded God:

1) That world civilization will imminently be destroyed--not by God or any supernatural means, and not even necessarily by some sort of nuclear holocaust that they feel must happen. I think they KNOW a whole lot more than they are telling us about global warming, the sociopolitical effects of "peak oil", the sociopolitical effects of overpopulation, or--who knows?--maybe a freaking asteroid on a direct collision course with Earth. The bottom line is, they really believe, first and foremost, that we are all in the deepest of deep shit very, very soon.

2) That this destruction is absolutely inevitable. No amount of science, technology, or world cooperation will be able to help us.

3) The chaos that will result when the rest of the world finally finds out about 1) and 2) will directly threaten ALL of their own lives and fortunes. Like it or not, these people are all in the soup with us, and there will be a LOT of unhappy folks in the world surrounding them who will suddenly go into a very scary kind of survival mode.

4) Due to 1), 2) and 3), they need to secure as much of the country's (and the world's) remaining wealth and valuable resources as FAST as they can. Only this will allow them to live...somewhere...relatively protected from the rest of the world's pissed-off billions, whom they may still be able to control after disaster hits.

5) Number 4) needs to be accomplished at ANY cost--legal or illegal, moral or immoral. It is a literal matter of life and death.

These people don't believe in the Rapture any more than I do. And greedy politicians have been around since this country was founded, but I have never seen a group that appears so greedy that they would see their OWN country destroyed, let alone other parts of the world, at the hands of their avarice! And truly crazy and/or stupid people don't see their goals realized again and again and again.

No, there is a lot more, and a lot less, to the High Neocons than meets the eye. They know what's going to happen and they know what they are doing, and they are succeeding spectacularly.

What do you all think?

[rpgamerd00d]

1. I think you forgot to add the standard "tinfoil hat warning" on your post

[converted_democrat]

4. Why not just debate the issue, or hide the thread? The tin foil crap

is too much.. That's what the other team uses to dismiss arguments they don't want to talk about.. Stop furthering their cause..

[rpgamerd00d]

6. Thats crap. No one owns the right to call a thread a "tinfoil hat alert"

And that is what this is. No proof, no evidence, no nothing.

These are the kinds of threads that make people look at Liberals/Dems as a joke.

And just to make you happy, here is my debate:

The NSA Spying was leaked, but some global end-of-the-world conspiracy is being kept? Yeah, ok I got a bridge to sell you in NY...

[converted_democrat]

7. I just think it's pathetic.. Some of the brightest discoveries of our time

have come from this type of brainstorming and discussion.. If you don't like a thread than hide it..

edit- On top of that, it's demeaning..

[rpgamerd00d]

9. Its standard to include "tinfoil hat warning" on these threads here at DU

That's all I said. I didn't say you can't discuss it.

[converted_democrat]

15. And what does that imply? It implies that the theory is nuts, or should be

dismissed.. It's demeaning.. Why not just discuss it, or hide the thread?? Is it really that tough? Why go out of your way to demean someone, when you can simply hit the option to hide the thread?

[rpgamerd00d]

18. I dunno, why don't you ask everyone? I didn't create the tradition of...

... marking these kinds of threads with "tinfoil hat warning". Im fairly new. That was here when I got here.

And its not demeaning. If someone wants to post a wacko theory, then they must accept criticism of it.

[converted_democrat]

19. There is no standard, some do it and some don't.. If you look down the

thread you're the only person so far that has a problem with it.. There isn't any need to demean something if you don't agree with it, just hide the thread..

on edit- You didn't outright criticize, you demeaned.. It's different.. If you have a problem with the theory address that, but there isn't really any good reason to just outright demean something..

[Mythsaje]

2. If it all goes to hell, all the wealth in the world

won't protect them. Money is only a useful commodity if everyone else can use it too. In a world gone mad, it's less useful than toilet paper.

[rucky]

3. Here's a sick addendum to your theory...

which, I believe is compatible with the greed and apocolyptic freakishness we see from them.

4) Controlling overpopulation will slow down the depletion of resources. They can do that through mass killing in their endless wars.

Remember, a few of these people are former liberals (so they say). They are very aware of the long-term problems facing the world & they lost their hope... even worse, they figured they'd take what they can while they still can.

[Coyote_Bandit]

5. It is all about the money

Always has been. Most likely always will be.

[valerief]

8. Hmm, should I tap my 401K now?

"I have never seen a group that appears so greedy that they would see their OWN country destroyed"

I think only the non-elites (the human resources) think in terms of countries. The destruction of the U.S. may not be such a big thing to certain people as long as they have their wealth.

[FogMachine]

10. I think you've hit the nail on the head, but I think it's likely to be tru

as far as the end of the world by a comet impact. I usually don't subscribe to many "outlandish theories" like this, and I am a Christian HOWEVER...

I don't believe my faith prevents my in believing in other factors, such as the POSSIBLITY of aliens, etc. If God is real, than who's to say he didn't create many others.

That being said, this website examines prophecies and predictions from SEVERAL different sources - bible code, bible, kuran, prophets, mediums, seers such as madam shipton and nostradamus, the third revelation of Fatima, and ancient data from civilisations like the Maya. normally, I wouldn't put too much weight into what one of these sources may say but since they ALL predict a mankiller comet impact in 2012 it has definitely raised my eyebrows.

to sum this site up if you don't want to read it, there are two prophecised comet impacts one in 2007 which will devastate India and the global killer in 2012.

http://www.barry.warmkessel.com/barry/2000Paper.html

one note - if you examine this website this guy has incredible detail and sophisticated astronomical and mathematical material to support his case. any astronomers here?

[FogMachine]

16. another note explaining mideast turmoil

It has been "prophecised" that after the first comet impact in 2006 or 2007 that mass war, including nuclear, will break out as a result of mass exodus and consolidation of resources. the website's sources predict that after the first impact people will finally believe in the 2012 impact causing the hysteria.

IF this is true, it may be one of the main reasons to keep Iran from going nuclear.

[Minnesota Libra]

11. I know some people will out and out dismiss what you are saying as........

.....pure:tinfoilhat: stuff. But I think you may well be on to something especially is they can have complete control of all natural and man made resources. Any uprisings can easily be put down by with all that wealth and various government control that is/will be in the hands of just a few.

After what I've learned about our government just since being at DU I will never dismiss as impossible any amount of :tinfoilhat: theories/facts regardless of how far fetched they may seem at the time.

[JohnnyRingo]

12. Food shortages

Will trump all shortages.
Climate change will certainly affect the already short supply, and unlike oil, people can't just cut back on use.
The only thing to insulate one from the famine will be wealth... personal or national.

You may be onto something here, as much as the Arab world has a monopoly on fossil fuel, we are (so far) the "breadbasket of the world".
The people who live in the desert can't eat crude.

[boobooday]

13. I agree with most of your theory

But I don't think that they believe civilization will be destroyed.

What they fear more than anything is peace and equality. The opposite of civilization being destroyed -- they fear its progress.

When the traditional oil-based economy is done for, and people develop sources of energy that cannot be monopolized, they are in trouble.

When people on earth go for long periods of time without a military war, they lose money. They make money when there is war. They are the military-industrial complex that Ike warned us about.

And, as laid out for us by PNAC, they see an opportunity, probably their last, to make a global power grab, because the European Union, the development of China, etc. are all threatening their dominance.

[valerief]

21. What kind of energy source can't be monopolized?

I can't think of an energy source (or its conversion apparatus) that can't be monopolized. Heck, even clean water is a commodity now.

[boobooday]

22. Well, sun and wind, for example

Although you're right, the necessary technology (hardware) could be monopolized, for a while, but technology (knowledge) is not a limited resource like oil and coal.

[valerief]

24. Yeah, but using the technology could be controlled

Like the "public" airwaves are. Or the materials to make the conversion tools could be controlled. I guess I just don't see anything as valuable as an energy source *not* being exploited.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

14. I don't think this is all tinfoilery.

Not at all. It probably isn't the whole picture, but so what? There's nothing wrong with a discussion.

Back in the mid-fifties, there was a top-secret CIA project that was looking into ways to control world population, so that us "deserving" white people could take all the resources that we wanted. I believe it was called "Eugenics", or something like that. Guess who was behind it? Prescott Bush, among others.

Kissinger made some statements in the 70's that echoed this bizarro world-view.

These NeoCons represent a Nazi-like sub-culture that has been angling for control since the end of WWII. And they finally have it.

Good post.

[KoKo]

17. Maybe....but they seem to be Incompetent Idealogues who are covering

up what they've been doing for decades...now that the "stuff is hitting the fan."

I used to think these were intelligent people who had just gone to far with their ideology and once they had the chance to prove their evil theories (Bush Selection) they went WILD.

But, given how they screw things up I'd say they are incompetent boobs who don't know anything but Inside the Beltway "think" and who are being used by the Globalist/Corporatists interests as PAWNS.

Look to the "Multi-Nationals" who have used our Treasury as a Piggy Bank and who are now Faking our Stock Market and running the IMF and World Bank. Look to the Companies who are Outsourcing, Merging and making deals that give billions to Venture Capitalist and Lawyers and the CEO's.

It's Corporate GONE WILD used a bunch of Neo-Con/PNAC/BELT WAY HACKS/MEDIA MOGULS and our own Compromised and Bought off Congress that is doing this.

But, that's just my opinion. Who knows maybe they do see something
out there...but it can't be worse than their incompetency.

[Jackpine Radical]

25. But KoKo--suppose it's not incompetence--imagine it's all working

the way they want it to. America gets raped, the middle class is destroyed across the world, they end up with all the marbles & a system of social control, including the ability to see or blow up anything they want to from orbit, & they all go live under a mountain somewhere in a stronghold with nuclear energy & water & air processing equipment, that is impervious to the destruction of the environment.

Hell, I don't know. Maybe they're all so psychopathic that they dond't even care what happens to their own kids.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

20. Yeah, I think maybe they are Dr. Strangelove types that read

government-written scenarios projecting this and that to happen. Unlike sensible people in government that understand it's just a scenario and may or may not happen and needs a rational response, THEY get all excited by it.

Probably some unconscious reaction to it gets their little peckers up because, like in Dr Strangelove, they have crazed thoughts and think they will be the virile cavemen left on top to gather up all the spoils. But really they are weak people that would rather cling to some ideology than use reason.

Might be partly why they were known as "the crazies" in the Bush Sr. administration.

[Ufomammut]

23. The rise and fall of Enron was based on this very "faith based" concept

So you can see where this shit leads. Good thread. There are obviously specific reasons for this apocalyptic-free-for-all neocon worldview. Whether they're deluded because of sincere religious belief or know something that we don't, as in, there will be some sort of staged pseudo Armageddon brought on for purposes of further draconian measures for the "National Security State," well, you're wading into a great deal of speculation that many "moderates" necessarily dismiss outright as "tinfoil" ...which I'd be inclined to agree with had everything that's happened in five short years hadn't gone down the way it has.

[Emit]

26. My mind has wandered (wondered?) in similar directions

But also, it could just be greed. What may be a possibility, is that rather than some catastrophic event in the near future, it is really just about peak oil.

A lot of what we have seen converge since Bush was selected in 2000 was in the making for thirty years (fanatical religiosity of the Evangelicals, Goldwater/Nixon, et al. conservatives vying for the power they perceived as their due, wealthy elite and war profiteers or Military Industrial Complex (MIC), neoconservatives who felt detente was weak and realism too idealistic, etc). The neocon agenda has been developing gradually, for example, more as a philosophical movement before it was "allowed" to take shape into full fledged policy. If what you propose is true, then all or some who are behind Bush & Co. now are either directly involved in your suggested "plot" (for lack of a better term), or are being used by one of the other groups. Since these groups have been festering and building momentum for some time now, it's not likely that they just recently discovered a pending catastrophe -- it has to be in reaction to something they've known about or desired for some time. I think oil dependency and the issue of peak oil might fit the plot.

For example, I wonder whether the MIC, and the elites who are involved in this group, including particularly those war profiteer persons associated with oil and weapons, have borrowed or used this neocon agenda (and some of the neocons are MIC and vice versa), and put their own little twist on things. It could be, then, that, in light of a worldwide, unavoidable oil decline, the MIC foresaw this and is maneuvering itself to reap all the benefits they can from the last remaining petro market, the dying market, before turning whole heartedly toward alternative fuels.

Speaking of which, did anyone catch that CNN presents special?

We Were Warned
Tomorrow's Oil Crisis
What if a hurricane wiped out Houston, Texas, and terrorists attacked oil production in Saudi Arabia? CNN Presents looks at a hypothetical scenario about the vulnerability of the world's oil supply, the world's remaining sources of oil and explores the potential of alternative fuels.

Poll: Most Americans fear vulnerability of oil supply
Behind the Scenes: Powering the planet
Watch: 'Living on an illusion'
Watch: 'Long war of the 21st century'
Watch: Are big cars irresponsible?
Calculator: How much are you spending on gas? Gallery: Alternative fuel

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/presents/

It aired twice yesterday, and will air twice again this evening.