My son the Sandwich Artist shows up on TSA "Watch List"

[Atman]

My barely 20 yo son, a district manager for Subway, today took his first plane flight since early childhood. His idea of politics is debating which computer OS is better. He is a wonderful "kid," and quite the geek, and didn't want to travel in the first place -- he is a homebody, and works all the time, into programming when he isn't opening up/checking up on growing batch of Subway stores. So we were happy he was finally taking some time off, going to visit a family member of his girlfriend.

We gave them pointers on flying -- the usual; easy-to-remove shoes, no pointy stuff, make sure his electronics can be verified as functional. But otherwise, we said, no sweat. The news makes way too much of all the flying hassles. So I dropped them off at the airport this morning and as I arrived home, a text message came across my cell phone screen...he had been stopped at check-in because he was on the terrorist watch list. I kid you not. He has an Irish name, not a hint of political leanings (except for that he loves the Daily Show and knows he doesn't like Bush -- good enough for me). My wife did some Googling, and apparently he shares the name of an anti-war poet from the sixties who was arrested several times for protesting the Viet Nam war, and has been dead since the early nineties.

He later confirmed he got by and was allowed to board after "jumping through some hoops" for them. I'll have to wait until he calls me this evening with the details. I feel so much safer knowing America is being protected from roque suicide sandwich makers!

[niyad]

1. your son can take his place of honour next to infants and grandmothers,

and other assorted "dangerous people" on the no-fly lists.

one would think, by now, that people would see that these lists are sheer stupidity, and do absolutely nothing to protect us.

[mandyky]

15. Cat Stevens and Ted Kennedy

and a host of others...

[Garbo 2004]

61. Also James Moore, author of "Bush's Brain." n/t

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

70. Is Cat Stevens still on a no fly list? I never heard this about Kennedy.

[Ilsa]

72. They fixed it, but yeah, some idiot put Ted Kennedy on a no-fly list.

Sure, it was just harassment from some nazi, but it is the sort of thing that can spoil your travel plans.

I think Yusuf Islam aka Cat Stevens has simply decided not to return to the US after that last episode where his plane was stopped in Nova Scotia or something. I could be remembering the wrong thing, though.

[hobbit709]

2. Shares the name of a dead person

OOOHH!! Protect us from the ghosties and ghoulies!

[vademocrat]

4. And long leggity beasties...

[annabanana]

23. and things that go bump in the night!. . . eom

[vademocrat]

24. Hee Hee Hee!

My father gave me a beautiful framed copy of this years ago because of my habit of getting up in the middle of the night I was one of the "things that go bump in the night". :)

[annabanana]

44. When my parents were young & poor

(in the 40's) my father wrote that poem out, illustrated it, framed it & gave it to my Mom's folks...
It has since come down to me and is hanging in the bedroom, for protection.

[vademocrat]

51. That sounds wonderful - I know you treasure it!

I need to get mine out of the box & hang it. It does seem to work - I haven't seen any ghoulies or ghosties or long leggity beasties in quite some time! :rofl:

[babylonsister]

3. Yours is the first firsthand experience I've read about, Atman.

It makes one wonder how they come up with their lists. Sounds pretty random to me, which is even more disturbing.

[soothsayer]

14. technically, still a second-hand account, but yeesh! TSA is really

out there.

[hootinholler]

27. Random?

I can't accept this is random. The deceased poet-warrior was probably on J Edgar's enemies list. Think on that for a few mins.

-Hoot

[Atman]

28. It was not random

They specifically told him it was based upon his name. I have yet to find out what "hoops" he had to jump through to get on board the plane. Perhaps simply proving he wasn't a dead poet did it.

Full disclosure: I'm not even sure the dead poet is the actual reason. Obviously, they won't actually tell him. My wife found the reference to the dead Viet Nam protestor/poet on Google...it is pure speculation that that is the reason, but we do know that it was his name which triggered it. That much they told him.

[pitohui]

29. well now you have another

my husband's name and passport was flagged but, as you see, it is no really big deal, you jump through a few hoops to prove you are not the person they're looking for and then you move on with your life

lesson learned, don't give your kid a common name and they are really serious abt get to the airport early if you do have a common name, if your name is common, guaranteed some bad guy has used it as an alias or even had it as their own birth name

i'll take the googling of atman's wife w. a grain, because w. the really common names you could not possibly ever go thru them all and figure out why you were flagged, and this confusion w. the dead man is the wife's theory not confirmed by the dhs, could just as well be lots of irish guys w. irish names who once had ira ties or another link to transferring weapons or money for crime or terror

he clearly wasn't "no fly'd" as a terrorist, he was allowed to fly

system worked as it should, they had a question abt his identity, they checked it out, and he was cleared

where's the problem here?

[Atman]

30. I didn't say his name was "common."

I simply said it was an "Irish name."

[pitohui]

32. whatever

there are bad actors w. irish names, like it or not

your son was on the list and he should have been screened, just as you would want my husband screened when his english name popped up on the list

either we believe that all are equal and all should be screened, or we don't

white people don't get a free pass from security

again, i ask, what is the problem here? system worked exactly as it should, they checked out the flag, your son was cleared, and he was free to go

[tyedyeto]

67. I posted this well over a year ago...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2953525

My s/o is not flying as much now since the most recent job is much closer to home so he is able to drive there.

It also seems like his being told that he was on the no-fly list was only with Southwest Airlines. Later on he started flying United with no problems.

[quaoar]

5. It's a good thing they checked out your son

He might have tried to hijack that plane with a 6-inch roast beef and cheddar sandwich on wheat.

You can't be too careful these days. Or the terrorists will win.

[Salviati]

11. Careful! He's got sharp chedder!

[phusion]

13. pepper-hijack cheese...

sorry, that was lame :)

[pitohui]

31. because they should psychically know who atman's son is automatically?

you guys are being unreasonable, what you expect -- the screeners to ALREADY know everything abt who you are and the purpose of your travel and your manner of earning a living -- calls for a far more totalitarian state than being realistic abt the fact that the screeners did not know who atman's son was, he had never flown before, he had a name on the list that requires additional checking to be sure he is not one of the bad guys

maybe we should all just have to report our entire life histories before flying ANYWHERE huh?

jeez louise

his name was flagged, he showed he wasn't the person of that name they were looking for, and he was allowed to fly

if you see anything unreasonable in that, i pray to jesus you don't have any influence over any airport security anywhere in the world where i fly

it is easy for those who seldom/never fly and have nothing at risk to claim that people shouldn't be screened and that security should magically in advance by sheer force of ESP know who the bad guys are

:eyes:

[High Plains]

39. We expect a watch list that doesn't have 285,000 bogus names

on it.

We expect a watch list that has some relation to real threats.

We expect a watch list that respond to obvious mistakes and removes unnecessary names.

We expect a watch list with at least some minimal transparency, like "Can you explain why my name is on this list?"

[Gormy Cuss]

40. You have far more faith in the system than I do.

I assume that every time I board a plane my life is in danger because the Rube Goldberg system used as a pretext for security is so bad that the only thing it's good for is convincing people that we HAVE security.

That Atman's son had multiple trigger points for the special screening is one thing. That some people who fly regularly and have been screened and cleared repeatedly STILL get the magic esses on their boarding pass every time is absurd. How crude a device is it that David Nelson living at 32 Limerick Lane in Dallas,who always pays for his round trip ticket with Mastercard # XXXXXXXXXXX, frequent flyer # YYYY, personally screened by TSA staff and cleared the last time, can't be excluded from targeted screening the next time he flies on the same carrier? None of that requires ESP nor does it involve any more data mining than is already in place.

[TlalocW]

6. Maybe the Subway sandwich known as the BMT

Has a sinister meaning in the world of international terrorism.

TlalocW

[AnneD]

54. Perhaps they were anti Christmas....

insisting No L (lettuce)on their subs....

[TlalocW]

64. Okay, I can support

sending someone to Gitmo over that pun. :)

TlalocW

[AnneD]

68. What..

I thought I deserved Iraq for that one;)Iran out of good puns anyway and am scraping the barrel a bit. Sunni stop now cause I am full of Sh'ite anyway.

[Atman]

58. Maybe they thought BMT stands for Bomb Making Terrorist!

:eyes:

[Orrex]

7. Perhaps it has to do with Subway's newest sandwich

The
Wild Mexican Deli sub.

[Atman]

8. Yikes! That does sound terrifying!

:rofl:

[ClusterFreak]

9. "Sandwich makers" = "Evil Doers"

So, uh...just what **kind** of (air quotes) "sandwiches" does your son make, hmmmmmmmm????
(followed by sinister laugh) Bwwwoooohhhaaaahaaahahahahaha!!!

Personally, I think Jared Fogel is behind all of this.;-)

[TheBaldyMan]

65. they hate us for our bagels

[Bozita]

10. IIRC, Ted Kennedy was on the 'no-fly' list. He appealed personally to ...

... sitting Attorney General John Ashcroft. Even with Ashcroft's intervention, it took WEEKS to get Kennedy's name off the list.

[mmonk]

71. Wonder how he proved he really wasn't the Ted Kennedy

terrorist person they were looking for.

[LisaLynne]

12. Wow, I feel safer already.

:eyes:

Because, you know, poets are just so darn threatening!

[atommom]

16. Poets who can make sandwiches are even more dangerous!

:hide:

[obreaslan]

18. You obviously don't realize...

That a poet armed with a sharp and witty limerick or a backpack full of sonnets could subdue the entire flight crew of a large jet-liner.

I could see the shouts of Blank Verse in un-rhymed Iambic Pentameter....

Oh, the horror!!!!! :scared:

[Atman]

21. If a poet managed to actually bring down a plane...

...would that be what they call a "Poetry slam?"

[ms liberty]

36. and everyone knows...

the dangers of a well crafted haiku...

[Sydnie]

17. We have jumped the shark officially now

We have moved to the "thought police", examining the thoughts of those that wrote them in the 60's. You know, that OTHER time that the people spoke out against what government was doing and were found to be correct in their criticisms? That list must have been administered by the same group that did the Florida voting rolls, huh?

[pitohui]

33. well SOMEONE has jumped the shark

there is no "we" in this world

you and atman and whoever are welcome to jump the shark

i haven't jumped it

the story abt his wife's googling of dead poets is not proof of anything, it is something that they made up after hearing only part of the story at a distance over the telephone from the person it happened to


making a big deal about nothing much if you ask me

[Atman]

37. It is "something we made up?"

Jesus. So now the nastiness starts -- the general evolution of a DU thread.

Neither me nor my wife "made up" anything. Period. You are getting to that point though! My post(s) are pretty clear. My wife Googled my son's name. Period. I even stated subsequently, before you decided to stir the pot, that I had no proof that the dead poet was actually the reason. You're the one setting up that straw man to knock down. If you just want to snipe and be nasty, could you please find another thread? Your point has been made; you don't mind being a treated like a suspect when you travel, and you don't feel anyone else should, either. Apparently some disagree with you.

[SPKrazy]

50. Well This Probably Isn't Appropriate

but you might search this poster who said that and see that search is your friend.

they are always defending TSA

[Sydnie]

62. I was using WE as in WE in the United States who allow all of this

to continue ... WE who happen to hold citizenship in this country. Yes, I guess that would include you too. The "collective" we.

All they succeded in doing was frustrating a kid who was traveling today. They didn't "save anyone" from the kid that makes sandwiches, did they?

There are 80,000 names on that list. Think of that - 80,000. Most, I would bet, are common enough to catch 800,000 at one time or another with no proof that those that they snare have ever done anything wrong to warrant being listed there.

If we know the name of 80,000 people that are looking to "harm us", why they hell aren't we knocking on their doors by now?

If we know the phone numbers of AQ members, why they hell haven't we let our fingers do the walking and knocked on those doors by now?

If it is so "nothing" why bother your beautiful mind responding to this thread at all? :shrug:

[mzmolly]

19. In all fairness to our government ...

I hear the "Dead Poets Society" is a very dangerous terrorist organization! :sarcasm:

Good grief, I'm thankful my husband has a name that is Scandinavian and rare.

[Catrina]

20. Maybe it was the word 'subway' that did it!! This is an outrage and one

way to stop it is a boycott of flying until there are hearings and a thorough investigation of how innocent American citizens got on this Bush enemies' list. He doesn't like Bush? That seems to be enough these days to get yourself on one of their lists.

If even Ashcroft refused to go along with them, they are definitely doing something really, really evil, imo. And that's why Democrats, and if there are any decent Republicans left, need to get behind Feingold to get an investigation going.

They are fighting hard to hide what they have been doing, and they started BEFORE 9/11 ~ this is scary stuff and it won't stop until the people of this country stand up and demand answers.

Btw, your son has no recourse as to finding out how he got on that list, nor can he sue according to what I read ~ how this kind of law passed is a mystery ~ the ACLU is trying to do something about it ~

We don't need terrorists from other countries to 'destroy our freedoms'. I wonder if any Bush lovers have ever been placed on that no-fly list?

Sorry about your son. What a dark period this is ~

[KyndCulture]

22. Makin' sandwiches over there so we don't to make em over here?

[mikeytherat]

25. Every time you decline to have your sandwich toasted the terrorists win

mikey_the_rat

[Sabriel]

26. Sub sandwiches ARE called "torpedos," after all

Let's all keep that in mind, shall we? I don't think any of us wants to contemplate the impact of a torpedo on a Subway, do we? Hmmmm?

[warrens]

34. Why does Subway hate Amerka???? NT

[AngryAmish]

35. I am also on the "Watch List"

I also have an Irish name. I always figured they had some paper on me because my folks supported NORAID.

Then I googled my name and "anti-war". Look what we have here! I have the same name as someone very active in the anti-war movement. He is a researcher on antiwar.com

I have a real common name and honestly I don't care about the extra security. It is disconcerting to always see those ssssss on my boarding pass.

[Canuckistanian]

38. First they came for the sandwich artists.....

This is insanity. Do they ever give a second thought about the damage they're doing?

Not just to people's reputations, but to the reputations of Americans to the rest of the world.

Americans are increasingly being portrayed as mindless, idiotic fear-mongers. Is it any wonder?

I know it's nobody fault here, but the damage done is real. And it will take decades for trust to return.

[glitch]

41. We shouldn't be trusted.

It will take generations to make this country presentable in the world, a true partner in civilization and human survival.
And we'll need your help. In our current state we won't make it and we'll more than likely take you down with us.
It is very important that the rest of the world not follow us down this fascist path. Unfortunately it appears that is what you are doing. It took the far right 40 years to get where they are here, you won't have anywhere near that long.
This cancer has metastasized, the nodes of Canada, Australia and Great Britain are already exposed.

[Canuckistanian]

42. I have faith in my own countrymen..

But I'm not deluding myself. Which is one of the reasons I spend so much time here. The more I know, the better I can fight to stop this cancer from spreading.

[glitch]

48. Actually my countrymen aren't so bad either - other than taught to believe

they're privileged from birth. A lot of them do break through the propaganda. I wrote the above post before lunch, always feel a bit more optimistic afterwards.

Whatever you do keep control of how your votes are counted, and who controls your media.

[Atman]

56. How about to COMMERCE in general?

BushCo says they're all about business. And here you've got two kids who've essentially never flown before, never done a wrong thing in their lives, and they show up at the airport for their very first vacation together, and the fucking government has them pre-labeled as potential terrorists? My kid is a homebody, as I mentioned. This trip actually involved tears and angst...and they get stopped at the gate!

Don't you TSA apologists see the damage this is doing? Not just to America's reputation, but to actual COMMERCE! How eager do you think these kids are going to be to travel again? My son's girlfriend was scared to death to get on a plane in the first place. I had to spend a good deal of time explaining to her all the sounds she might hear on the plane (the luggage doors, the wing flaps) she was so worried about flying. And these kids have trouble even getting ont he goddam plane?

Stop apologizing for this atrocity of a government program, and wake up to the fact that big brother is here, and he's determined to make sure our kids never know what life was like in a free society.

[hedgehog]

43. I did something very dumb and got pulled out of line

I was on the way home from a trade show and was running to catch an earlier flight and forgot that I had two very suspicious items in my handbag that really freaked the screener. The first was a sample weld piece - a piece of heavy copper wire welded to a piece of aluminum busbar. Of course, once they searched my bag, they also found the vendor freebie that I'd picked up which was a handy-dandy gadget that had little snap-off razor blades inside what looked like a ball point pen. In other words, a box cutter. I got to keep the weld piece and I gave them the box cutter. The stupid thing is that I haven't flown in years and I was focused on emptying the loose change from my pockets and forgot all about this stuff because I consider it to be normal. Engineers tend to carry weird looking stuff around. Years ago my dad worked with industrial conveyor belts and he used to have a machete in his carry on luggage.

[in_cog_ni_to]

45. Good grief. This crap is ridiculous.

I just KNOW my name will be on that list. I'll find out in June. I'm glad your son made it through OK. A few weeks ago a DUer posted about her 9 year old nephew who was on the no fly list. They actually took the little guy into an interrogation room and questioned him!:grr:

[Dorian Gray]

46. Just get to the airport a little early

If you are on the list, just a little extra time for questioning will be enough to make sure you get your flight.

It's disconcerting when we hear all these people who are on the no fly list. I wish that the govt. was obligated to tell us WHY!

[populistdriven]

47. The Terrorist Watch List Baby Name Book - Be sure your kids names are safe

Target has it for 9.95

ISBN 1-56025-569-2

[Hubert Flottz]

49. Those hot peppers he's been puttin on people's meatball subs

cause pure terra the next day!

[SPKrazy]

52. Ouuuuch! n/t

[Atman]

53. I'm not responding to any specific post, but...please read

To the naysayers (or TSA yay-sayers) please consider this while you scoff and say that there is nothing wrong with stopping my son, who has never had so much of a traffic ticket, who's only real public record at this point is a voters registration and a car loan. To those who say he was rightfully stopped by the TSA: are you the same people who believe that the NSA was only listening to Al Qaida conversations? IOW, the government knows so much that it can zero on only on telephone conversations with AQ, but they can't weed out a Sandwich Artist at the airport? Don't you see the ridiculousness of the lies we're being told? Our spies are dead-on accurate when they want to listen in on our phone calls, but can't even weed out a kid working at Subway?

Get real. Wake the fuck up. This TSA screening bullshit is nothing less than data mining by the government.

Get used to it, or get off your ass and do something to help stop it. But stop apologizing for our new police state.

(edited for grammatical clarity)

[SomewhereOutThere424]

55. Great post!

It's about time people started to stand up against the brainless rabble who's attached themselves to DU. I'm personally sickened by a lot of these free-going 'eh it isn't effecting me' opinions floating around as our country is sinking like a stone...

[sandnsea]

57. Or from a sort of reverse perspective

What the fuck are we spending billions of dollars on if our watch list can't even differentiate between terrorists and sandwich makers.

[SPKrazy]

60. About Naysayers

see post #50

[shance]

63. Hi Atman. There is everything wrong with stopping your son.

I will say that this appears designed solely to intimidate activists from flying and from living life on a very normal basis. If it is merely a coincidence, it is added to the list of many more that have occurred?

First off, who created such a "no - fly" list to begin with? Why the secrecy?

If "they" have nothing to hide, then why are they so late in providing the information on who is being targetted?

Are they waiting for a time that it will be too late for citizens to take action? Perhaps we need to review such patterns.

If they are so proud of this "no-fly list", why not reveal an accountability trail? That, right there seems to reveal that this is an illegal act in and of itself.

No evidence, no source, well then no crime committed, right?

Wrong.

No accountability, no problem for those that abuse the system.

That is what needs to be the outcry on such abuse. That the so called "War on Terrorism" is in and of itself a guise being used to perpetuate fear and blame on innocent Americans. The people who continuously are abused seem to be activists and those who oppose the Bush Administration policies.

It appears to be utilized to essentially stop the freedom of Americans from living their lives, doing the right thing and also, taking the actions that allow Democracy to live and thrive.

Im very active in activism and in anti-war activities. I would like to say that it is not a result of opposing Bush policies, but it seems pretty clear now from not only my experience but many others, that the Administration is more interested in stopping our progress in telling the truth as concerned Americans, than they ever were in stopping 'terrorism'.

I think we all know that by now, however it is important to affirm and confirm in a time that is confusing and lacks any accountability trail and/or evidence of illegality.

I hope your son won't be curtailed by this, and it's important in letting others know. It is important as well to see abuses when they seem to occur so that we can bring it to light and do something about it.

[TheBaldyMan]

66. K&R'd just for this post

[SPKrazy]

69. kicked just to see it again! n/t

[DarkTirade]

59. Lord save us from those low-fat subs...

[SPKrazy]

73. But They Aren't Bad Really

jerrod said so