This election year, I fear

[IselaB]

Illegal immigration is going to serve the same role homosexual marriage served in the last election. I suspect we'll see Republicans pushing to get illegal immigration initiatives on state ballots. And, regardless of everything else, the Republican base will show up in large numbers to take a stand against immigrants just as they did to take a stand against homosexuals.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. Nope. No Way. This Issue Totally Splits Them.

Their issue, as always, will be terra terra terra.

But fear not, I have a feeling we're going to beat them at their own game this time.

[IselaB]

3. You really think Republicans are split on this issue?

Heck, even the conservative Latinos who vote Republican probably support draconian immigration laws. Latinos may be split on the issue, but I don't think Republicans are.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

4. Yes, They Totally Are. Not Sure Why You Think Otherwise.

[IselaB]

7. Uh...

Are you going to make an argument or point me toward something that indicates the Republican base is split on this issue? Upon what do you base this belief that "they totally are?" We can see here that Democrats are split on the issue, and I think Latinos are more split on the issue than a lot of people assume, but I'm not sure why you would think Republicans are split on the issue.

I'd be happy to find I'm wrong. Do you have anything?

[Erika]

10. Look at Tancredo vs. Bush

Please respond.

[KyuzoGator]

14. Big business needs a cheap & renewable labor force.

Big business = Republicans.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

25. Well Get Ready To Be REALLLLLY Happy To Be Wrong Then LOL

God Bless, and enjoy! :hi:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/01/AR2006030102200.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/politics/26cornyn.html?hp&ex=1143435600&en=303ee03ad5150fe7&ei=5094&partner=homepage

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/03/21/lawmakers_at_odds_on_immigration/

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041202-111826-8264r.htm

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=ak60uzArdR_0&refer=us

http://ourlatinamerica.blogspot.com/2005/12/republicans-split-further-on.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0418/p03s01-usfp.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,148380,00.html

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:5vusfKOJAwoJ:www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp%3Fartsec%3D16%26issue%3D20060120+republicans+split+immigration&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2005/05/17/immigration_may_split_gop.html

http://www.stanfordreview.org/Archive/Volume_XXXVI/Issue_2/Opinions/opinions2.shtml

http://www.newsobserver.com/1154/story/417154.html

[IselaB]

39. I haven't read all those links yet, but, again...

I think you're missing the point of my question. The question is about how the illegal immigration issue could be exploited the same way the homosexual marriage issue was exploited to motivate the Republican base.

The first article you linked to says, "Many Republicans, especially those from the West, have said passage of legislation to enforce border security is vital to their reelection, and do not want this merged with other measures that would open up work options for immigrants."

As an electoral strategy, I think it is clear immigrant bashing works for Republicans. That's what Republican voters care about. How the Republican party manages to utilize that without actually restricting access to cheap labor, etc., no doubt divides the Republican leadership and corporate elites. But the question concerns how this issue might be used in the same way as the homosexual marriage issue to motivate the base of blue-collar, NASCAR Republicans which gave them the victory in the last election.

[Erika]

6. W wants an informal amnesty given while Tancredo

is throwing fits. They are both Republicans.

[IselaB]

12. But you see, that's not the REPUBLICAN BASE

I'm talking about voters. If Bush were up for reelection this year, this issue would be problematic for him, because he's taking a position contrary to his base, just like with the Dubai ports deal. But I'm talking about motivating the base to get out and vote. Homosexual marriage did it last time, and I fear this issue could do it this time.

[Erika]

18. Tancredo vs the GOP base

What does W have to do with it. Many Republicans want Mexicans here for corporate low wage purposes and abhor legislation holding employers responsible for illegal acts.

[IselaB]

24. No

I don't think the average voting Republican believes in allowing illegal immigrants into the country to keep corporate labor expenses down. There may be Republican elites in corporate America who see that as their interest, but that's not what motivates the Republican masses. The Republican masses generally don't like hispanic immigrants, and they are scared to death some other kind of dark-skinned person is going to sneak in among the beaners with a dirty bomb. That's what motivates the Republican base.

Again, the Republicans don't have to actually do anything about immigration to exploit the issue. They didn't do anything for Terry Schiavo, but that didn't stop them from exploiting the issue.

[Erika]

34. Huh? n/t

[MADem]

16. But they won't have Rosalita to watch the kids!! Or Carmen to cook for

them!!! Or Jose to clean the pool!! Or Raul, leaf blower on his back, to do their landscaping!!!!

How many Republicans benefit from the repressed wages of undocumented workers? I think the GOP uses these people at a far greater rate than the Democrats do.

Of course, perhaps the GOP is hoping that when the borders are closed, they can boss around all the out-of-work Democrats, and get them to do their bidding for slave wages!

[IselaB]

20. The Republicans don't have to actually limit illegal immigration

to exploit the issue for political gain. Look at how they've played the "values voters." They've never done anything for them, because most of what those people demand is unconstitutional, but they know how to exploit their fears, bigotries and ignorance.

It's just that these last couple of days have reminded me of the surge in the homosexual marriage movement before the last election. A vocal, energized minority that tweaks the Republican base to no end is leaping into the headlines. It's almost like a Rovian plot....

[Erika]

26. The last couple of days have shown the power of immigrants

and their hopes and dreams.

What does Rove have to do with anything? He's lucky to keep out of prison.

[MADem]

36. But they do risk being called out as hypocrites

You can't beat the drum against something, and do the opposite. Hell, all they have to do is get the undocumented hires to stand up and tell about the poor pay and lousy working conditions they endured in the home of (insert GOP bastard here). Send 'em in with a hidden camera, even better! You know there's gotta be a good amount of 'do as I say, not as I do' going on.

There were a lot of people who were rather squeamish about outing all of those GOP guys in the closet when they were beating the sky-is-falling-if-gay-people-marry drum, and you do have to wonder what might have come of all that 'ho-mo-SEX-shull' rabid foaming-at-the-mouth business, had someone come out with some crystal clear compromising photos, videos, and/or audio tapes of Ken Mehlman, David Drier, and so forth...it's incredibly cruel politics, but when ya vote one way, and play the other, it's in the public interest to expose hypocrisy.

[sendero]

41. The FACT is....

.... that especially in border states but really pretty much everywhere, illegals privide something republican businessmen just cannot get enough of : cleap labor from people who have no rights.

Bush**'s answer is to just make them all legal for a time.

Right now, the INS does NOTHING about this "crime". I live in Dallas an I guarantee you, give me a week and I'll point out hundreds of illegals working. The INS knows this is going on, but they are intentionally underfunded because the POLITICIANS DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS, IT IS WORKING JUST FINE FOR THEIR BUSINESS CONSTITUENTS.

Now, Joe Sixpack has a different idea. But with this gang of fools how many times to the needs of average Americans come ahead of the needs of "bidness"? I rest my case. :)

[stevebreeze]

23. the GOP does seem to be split on immigration

Some want to use every angle to leverage lower wages for working people. They want to use trade policy to ship our jobs overseas AND the want to import people to drive down wages in the US. JObs that are not easily moved to factories elsewhere. JObs like construction and domestic servants.Some don't want to have to interact with people of another culture and so resist illegal immigration.

[IselaB]

28. Again

I think you're confusing the Republican elites with the voters they need to put them in power.

[Erika]

32. huh?

What kind of newspeak are you talking?

[BuyingThyme]

2. By election day, it will be a different world.

[Erika]

5. Illegal immigration on state ballots?

W is pushing for the feds to control.

[napi21]

13. Yes, but it probably won't be resolved at the Fed. level until after

the election. Many of the TV pundants have already predicted that.

Some states have already passed laws that make staying the the US without a green card or other roper paperwork a felony. sorry I don't have any links to this story, but I hears something about it on our evening news here in Ga. Also it was mentioned on CNN earlier today. Seems some States are taking control because they don't feel the Feds are moving fast enough, and it's the States that are hurting because of this.

I think what I heard about Ga. is that people will have to prove they are here legally before they can get any State services at all.

[Mythsaje]

8. There's a way to turn it around...

against the Republicans. The issue is not illegal immigrants coming to America in an attempt to better their lot in life (America has ALWAYS been a beacon of freedom and opportunity across the world) but that corporate CEOs and other corporate officers see no consequences for hiring them. We need to make this about WHY the immigrants are still coming here, and staying. Because they KNOW they can get jobs. And it costs Americans the ability to negotiate decent wages for all the jobs available.

[KharmaTrain]

9. An Excellent Opportunity To Register Hispanics

There are thousands of votes...most in swing red states that the Democrats have long ignored and could be a gold mine this November. Working with the Hispanic coalitions that are fighting this immigration bill could be a bonanza...just look at the number of people who took to the streets in Phoenix and other Southwest cities. Not all these people are illegal...most are citizens but haven't been registered or had no reason to vote. Now they do. Our job is to make bridges and common causes as this isn't an issue of "immigration"...it's out and out racism.

Until the Repugnicans are serious about going after the big corporations that hire the illegals (cause "Amuricans don't want these jobs) and fine the shit out them...make them pay for their exploitation of the people and the laws they will be split on this issue. It's almost the classic "ranchers" vs. "farmers" battle here as the little guys...while one hand of the Repugnican party plays the racism card claiming how the illegals are destroying everything in sight, the other side is making tons of money turning the cheap labor into high produce prices.

Yes, it could be a wedge issue...but within the Repugnican party. There hasn't and won't be any resolution between these two factions and the Democrats are best served by standing back and letting the two groups go at one another. Our gold in working with the large and growing groups of Hispanics...people who have long been on the short end of the economic and social ladder and share a lot more in common with a majority of Democrats than the "anglos" do.

[Erika]

15. Yep

Let Tancredo vs W fight it out.

[PVK]

17. Si, se puede. n/t

[PVK]

11. DNC Chairman Dean said it months ago.

"Immigration is going to be the scapegoat this next election cycle."

[oasis]

19. Jesus and Hillary don't want good samaritans tossed in the can for

helping immigrants. This has been well publicized and can only help Democrats.

[Erika]

21. Making felons of anyone helping immigrants is UnChristian

Can you imagine refusing help to an illegal immigrant when they are in need of basic help. Have the true Christians left the Republican party?

[oasis]

35. Hypocrites abound in the GOP. (eom)

[JDPriestly]

22. The immigration issue could be resolved easily

if we raised the minimum wage considerably and allowed any person, illegal immigrant or not, to sue an employer who has not paid all wages owed under minimum wage law for triple wages. Also, we should allow any employee to sue an employer for triple damages if the employer does not properly pay the employee's Workers' Comp., unemployment insurance, Social Security, the employer's share of any taxes, etc. And we should require written contracts for work done on an independent contractor basis.

[ruggerson]

27. This is laughable Republican spin

Their PRESIDENT wants to coddle illegal immigrants. They are furious at him. You think that will motivate their base? Get a grip.

[IselaB]

29. I appreciate you dropping by my thread to be rude.

And I appreciate you characterizing my concerns as "republican spin." That was great too.


Mi casa es su casa. Drop by anytime.

[Erika]

31. Yep, Tancredo agrees

But many Republican states depend on illegals to keep their labor costs low and their profits high. The Republicans are truly split.

[IselaB]

33. Yet again

You're confusing the Republican corporate elite with the voters who protect their interests. And thus you miss the point of my question.

I thought it was axiomatic that the Republican base does not share the interests of the Republican elite, they're just too dumb to realize it. The Republican leadership knows how to manipulate the base, but they don't share its values.

[Erika]

37. Republican newspeak again?

You consider yourself an expert to speak for the GOP?

[IselaB]

40. You seem to be having trouble following my arguments.

I'm not sure what I can do about that.

[Erika]

44. Talking sensibly might do the job. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

30. Let em. It gives straight white christian men yet ANOTHER chance....

... to fuck up and act on the baser side of their nature...

It's good to give people chances.... The one day they do the right thing will be a wonderful day...

[Erika]

38. Uh, white Christian men?

Where are you coming from? What do White Christian men have to do with the subject?

[DetroitProle]

42. don't take too kindly to that.

I'm a straight, white, (nominally) christian man...
I'm a Democrat and a liberal and try to act like a civilised individual.

Generalizing any segment of the population is a bad thing.

[Erika]

43. Who are you addressing? n/t

[DetroitProle]

45. bloo

I'm not sure if I understood his/her post correctly, but it seemed to single out that group of individuals and expecting "them" to act in a certain way.

[newyawker99]

46. Hi IselaB!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast: