Immigration? I choose people over empire.

[LWolf]

Humans are a migratory species; always moving, always competing for resources. Every human society has been a society of immigrants. Most still are. What percentage of U.S. citizens move from one town to another, one county to another, one state to another, just within the current U.S. borders at least once in their lifetime? Personally, I've lived in 5 different states up to this point. Every time I move, I cross someone's border. Of course, that's "legal," since those borders are all inside the borders I'm "legal" in. I'm not "legal" outside of the empire I was born in. If I want to cross the "big" border, suddenly there are all kinds of legal complications.

Personally, I disagree with the whole concept of restricting me to the empire of my birth. As long as I follow the laws of the local region I'm in, why shouldn't I go where I want to? Migration is part of being human, and there is no human that doesn't spring from a migratory people.

If some other empire suddenly showed up and forced the U.S. border east of the Rockies, I wouldn't feel like I didn't "belong" here any more. If people east of the Rockies wanted to cross that new border, should they be "illegal?"

Having spent most of my life on the left coast, I am particularly aware that my homeland has been claimed by 3 different nations since European "discovery" of the continent. Spain, Mexico, and then the U.S.. Who knows who may "claim" it in the future? Empires come and go, but the people remain. Why not value the people more than the empire? Why not choose the family of humanity over nationalism?

[BrklynLiberal]

1. People have moved around this planet for eons.

[ugarte]

2. Yes, personally I prefer class loyalty rather than national loyalty

Nationalism is at the root of most wars and inspires more hatred for others than almost anything, except maybe religion.

[BrklynLiberal]

6. Well said!

[ourbluenation]

3. ITA . Our attempts to put up arbitrary borders makes the universe

giggle.

We are a knat on the ass of a cow you drive by 70 mph.

[Avalux]

4. You are disregarding laws and economic issues.

If you really are for the people, you then understand they can't be disregarded; no one can just go wherever they want.

So many of us are up in arms over Bush not following the law of the land, but when it comes to immigration, it's as if laws mean nothing.

There has to be a legal means to regulate the flow across our borders, otherwise the very people who are coming here are exploited and treated inferiorly. Cesar Chavez knew that; hell, he knew more about economics than the bozos in Washington. He knew that illegall immigrants were given lower wages and exploited by employers - they have no rights without citizenship. This practice not only hurts the immigrants, but hurts the economy as a whole.

[LWolf]

5. While I do acknowledge your point,

I think you are missing mine. It's true that our current situation sets up "illegals" for exploitation.

My point? Just why is it that "No one can just go where ever they want?"

Why is it that dividing the planet into empires and national identities is more valuable and important than recognizing kinship with all people?

[Avalux]

11. I see your point -

and in a perfect world, we would all be one on this planet able to go and do what we choose. We would celebrate each other's differences instead of making war over them. I wish more than anything humanity would evolve to such a state and maybe someday it will. Unfortunately, it isn't even close right now.
:hug:

[LWolf]

13. It's close.

I think the way we begin to move in that direction is to begin to think outside our current boundaries (or borders!) for alternatives. One step at a time, and we can move forward.

:toast:

[mainegreen]

7. Don't let anyone hear you say that

or you'll be branded as a racist around here.
:sarcasm:

[BrklynLiberal]

10. This government is set up to punish the victims.

The minimum wage should be raised $12.00 per hour and ANY employer who does not pay it to any employee, legal or illegal, should be fined a huge amount of money or shut down, so that companies do not find it profitable to hire ANYONE for below minimum wage.
The point is to stop exploiting anyone who wants to work, and thereby raise the bar for everyone!

[kurth]

8. Ok, let's share our PIN number with the universe

Sorry, in the real world, your house doesn't extend beyond your property line. And neither does your neighbor's. Would you like your neighbor to just walk in and help themselves to everything in your house?

[LWolf]

12. In the real world,

there is always a balance between freedom and privacy. Just as rights and responsibilities go together, so do freedom and privacy. It's really about where that line is drawn, isn't it? I don't think national borders are where the line should be drawn. Apparently, you do.

Private financial information or the home of an individual is not analogous to political borders, imo.

[cally]

9. I posted a similar thought in a thread a while back

I agree with you.