Why Aren't LEGAL Immigrants Protesting Against ILLEGALS?

[Dr. Jones]

I mean, I would be pretty upset. Here I come into this country the right and legal way. I go through all the hoops, all the governmental red tape, and all the hard work to make my "American Dream" come true so that I can enter this country LEGALLY and do it the RIGHT way.

One day I realize that some of my fellow countrymen have come into this country ILLEGALLY. They didn't go through all the proper protocols. They didn't follow by the laws of the United States of America. They came here in the dark of night - sneaking in through trucks, river crossings, and tunnels. Some beside them weren't even my fellow countrymen, but were from foreign lands such as the Middle East and Asia. I wondered why in the midst of Bush's "War on Terror" and his crackdown on civil liberties it would be so darn easy to sneak into this country unnoticed.

What right do THEY have to claim a life here in the United States? They came here ILLEGALLY! And now you're telling me that these people are going to be granted a de-facto amnesty? What about me? Why am I being punished for doing the RIGHT and PROPER thing under U.S. law, and these people who came here ILLEGALLY are being pushed to the front of the line and rewarded for their illegal actions? Wouldn't that by default bring a new tidal wave of illegal immigration to this country once word gets out that we give amnesty to illegals?

"Give me your poor and downtrodden" does NOT mean America should be overrun with illegal immigrants. "Give me your poor and downtrodden" automatically assumes that America will open its arms to all who wish for a better life and come into this country LEGALLY! Is the U.S. a country of law, order, and justice? I thought it was, maybe I was wrong.

Why aren't more LEGAL immigrants speaking out against ILLEGALS?

Disclaimer: I believe every person should be treated with love, respect, and dignity. This is not intended to direct insults at any particular ethnicity/race, but rather to ask the question of how LEGAL immigrants feel about ILLEGALS.

[mike_c]

1. maybe because they feel CHARITABLE and UNDERSTANDING toward them...

...a reaction that many Americans seem to have forgotten.

[Dr. Jones]

6. You can be charitable and understanding

without agreeing that illegal immigration is a good thing.

Illegal immigration has brought a huge strain on our social services and healthcare industry, that cannot be denied. With that has also brought a forcedown of wages for middle-class American workers.

America has been charitable enough in the past to welcome its immigrant guests LEGALLY, the right way. Other countries aren't always so hospitable.

[KittyWampus]

34. Read several passages citing fact Cesar Chavez was against illegal

immigration.

But I guess he didn't understand concepts and practices such as Charity and Understanding?

The Democratic Party used to be the party representing Labor.

[sui generis]

2. How do you feel about your mother?

What about your cousin that you know couldn't feed or house his family in Tijuana?

You're asking a loaded question.

As democrats we need to understand that THEY ARE HERE. When you've fallen off the cliff you have two choices:

1. Scream the whole way down
2. Enjoy the view

There is nothing negative we can do about the ones that are already here that wouldn't be profoundly against the American immigration ethos to begin with.

The problem is the border, and that's where we need to focus.

Having said that, if we happily let republicans look like they despise illegal aliens, all those immigrants who support illegal mama or scratch poor cousin might actually come in to the polling place this time and vote.

We were just handed a great big marvelous election present; all we have to do is open it and use it.

[Dr. Jones]

7. I agree we have to close the border.

The thing is, America is charitable enough to allow guests into our country LEGALLY. Why all of a sudden do we equate charity with that which is ILLEGAL?

Yes, I agree - we HAVE indeed been handed a gift for the upcoming elections! :)

[Mass]

3. May be they are angry at those who really deserve it?

People who exploit them?

[Dr. Jones]

8. Thus far I have not seen that...

But yes, that's a great point. They damn well SHOULD be angry at the companies who exploit them. But many of these illegals are desperate and scared that they will be caught. Unfortunately a desperate, fearful, impoverished worker is the best worker for greedy companies who set out to abuse them and mistreat them even unto death.

[Mass]

11. The problem is that posts like yours put the focus on the wrong point

They postulate these people are our ennemies. They are not. We are our ennemies in refusing to push for decent working laws and enforcement of these laws.

"Workers of all countries, unite" should be our motto, not "Be afraid of foreigners".

[Dr. Jones]

18. To a certain degree that is true,

however, the decision for an illegal to cross our border illegally is made by that individual.

Now I have heard of American companies driving buses down to Mexico and picking up workers and promising them work in America...but that isn't done every day. Most of the time the illegals themselves make that decision.

What should have happened though is that America should have said "Sorry, you're here illegally," and send them back immediately. Instead some American companies knowingly hire them and perpetuate the forcedown of wages for the American middle class and the strain on social services.

[bunkerbuster1]

4. Why don't you ask one?

[Cobalt Violet]

5. Some are.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0329-21.htm
...
Meanwhile, the millions of American citizens who came to this nation as legal immigrants, who waited in line for years, who did the hard work to become citizens, are feeling insulted, humiliated, and conned.

Shouldn't we be compassionate? Of course.

But there is nothing compassionate about driving down the wages of any nation's middle class. It's the most cynical, self-serving, greedy, and sociopathic behavior you'll see from our "conservatives." ...

Thom Hartmann.

[RufusEarl]

9. I believe it's more sinister then that!

Immigration and globalization...

Read this publication and recoil in horror as I did.

www.iie.com/publications/chapters_preview/331/5iie3284....

The IIE board includes David Rockefeller, Harvard President Larry Summers and long-time Rockefeller agents Paul Volcker and Pete Peterson. These guys are globalists (New World Order types) in case you didn't know.

This file is copy protected so I cannot cut and paste. What they more or less propose is integrating the US, Canada and Mexico. I heard a report on CNN that said they hope to accomplish this by 2010. They said there would be new governing bodies. First is the North American Commision to be appointed by government, but independent of government (you know...no oversight and probably more or less secret...like CIFIUS). These guys are the planners.

Then they propose making a group called the North American Parliamentary Group (NAPG) which would be comprised of legislators from all three countries. That sounds icky to me.

They also suggest a new currency, the "Amero". You guys will see...the dollar will collapse like it did in the late '70s. Fuel, gold, silver and other commodities will go through the roof in the next year. I suspect this new currency will be introduced to 'save the day'. Never mind that fiat currency is a way to steal wealth from the people who don't understand the system of money, wealth and finance (as the Rockefellars do).

Globalization is the same as the New World Order. Slowly but surely, they don't want individual countries. Once there's a world government, with today's technology, they can impose a world tyranny that will be hard to beat. I believe that's their aim, but they have to break America down first. They need to keep making us more poor and less educated. They have to reduce wages. They need to encourage Mexican immigration. You see, US citizens don't want to merge with Mexico, so in order to merge us, they're encouraging Mexicans to relocate!! Vincente Fox is doing exactly that (with the back door blessings of our power elite).

So, this isn't just about cheap labor and corporations. Its way way more insidious. Its about the undoing of America and taking away our sovereign status as an independent country. Canada has similarly been sold out (and with a little googling, you'll see many are unhappy about it). Heck, Quebec doesn't even want to be part of Canada, how are they going to cope with being part of the US and Mexico too!!

The new world order is real. I'm just not convinced they're devil worshipers (which is what the conspiracy web pages alledge).

[Dr. Jones]

16. I believe this is true.

It is clear and obvious to me. That's why we had NAFTA, that's why they passed CAFTA (dammit), and that's why Bush refuses to close the border despite terrorists slipping through. I've always heard they're doing this also to counter the EU's growing strength.

Wow - so we're RIGHT. Wonder why Bush seems as if he is taking America down? This is exactly why. America must decline and weaker nations must rise up until all wealth has been somewhat equalized.

I read somewhere where they are building roads from Mexico all the way up through the center of the United States that will not be owned by any state - they will be international. Thus they will eventually have to be policed by international officers too, I suppose -

:scared:

[Dr. Jones]

10. Very interesting...

thanks.

So true!

[dogday]

12. Better yet , Why aren't they stomping on all those

no-good illegal immigrants giving them such a bad name :sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

[DBoon]

13. Maybe because they understand the racism behind anti-illegal sentiment

They know it isn't the legal status that is the issue, it is the fear of the "brown hordes"

They also understand if illegal immigrants are made criminals, that legal immigrants will be next

[Dr. Jones]

19. Please don't pull out the race card.

It was the same damn thing with the UAE port deal. They started crying about race. It really has nothing to do with race! It has everything to do with the socioeconomic ramifications of a wave of illegal immigration hitting our country.

I don't fear anyone's skin color - that's ridiculous. It's a cop-out. To deny illegals have forced down middle class American wages and put a tremendous strain on our social and healthcare systems is utterly naive.

It's also ludicrous to say that if we outlaw that which is already outlawed, we will then outlaw LEGAL immigration. Where are you going with that? I simply don't understand the logic.

[DBoon]

44. It's true. That's why I mention it

The people who in fact support strong sanctions against illegals generally support sanctions against all immigrants (deny non-citizens access to social services), support "English only", and worry about "American" culture being extinguished under "brown hoardes".

This is a simple fact about the political support for anti-illegal immigration policies in general. People who consider this a key hot-button issue generally oppose all immigration.

Laws restricting access to government services by legal immigrants have already been attempted. THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE.

Opposition to illegal immigration is correctly seen by legal immigrants as a threat to their well-being.

[DBoon]

48. When I see the same attention paid to illegal Irish, Polish, Russians

as I see paid to Latin Americans, I will believe racism has nothing to do with this.

[DrGonzoLives]

25. blah blah racists blah blah

Do you pro-illegal immigration folks have any other argument besides that?

[DBoon]

45. This is why legal immigrants are not opposed more strongly to illegals

It is a good argument because it is valid.

The base of support for anti-illegal immigration in this country is very racists. The people who support this issue strongly oppose all immigration, especially of non-English speaking people. Talk to more right-wing white people.

There has already been an attempt to limit non-citizen (legal immigrant) access to social services.

It's part of their political platform. They are open about it.

The legal immigrants are smart enough to figure it out. They know that anti-illegal sentiment is going to go after them next.

[RagingInMiami]

14. I know a few legal immigrants who have nothing but compassion

for the illegal immigrants.

[mondo joe]

15. Well there's really no one protesting against illegal immigration.

So you can't judge where legal immigrants stand on that.

[Dr. Jones]

21. There should be.

n/t

[Bridget Burke]

17. Maybe they're smarter than you are.

They have a feeling for the big picture. And they aren't hiding under their beds because of Bush's "War On Terror."

Why don't you ask some? I know that the Metroplex is quite cosmopolitan--even though some Dallasites pretend it is not.

[Dr. Jones]

22. Not sure I understand

your first comment. My point was simply that Bush is two-faced (big surprise) because while he's cracking down on our civil liberties, he's been keeping the Southern border wide open which has indeed allowed thousands of terrorists from other nations to enter the U.S. The terrorists aren't dumb - they have studied our vulnerabilities closely.

Dallas is pretty cosmopolitan, that's true - and yes, some Dallasites DO pretend it's not! The Hispanic grocery stores around here offer a great selection of produce at lower prices. One in particular, Fiesta, is a very diverse market where people of many ethnicities shop. The jicamas can't be beat!

[Bridget Burke]

36. Thousands of terrorists have entered?

Gosh--where did you get that number?

[bluedog]

20. could be they are abetting them to get in the US illegally?

[Dr. Jones]

24. Some may...but I haven't heard ot it...

n/t

[Fleshdancer]

23. some do, some don't

Why aren't companies that only hire legal workers not protesting companies who hire illegal workers? :shrug: But I digress...

I've met a small handful of immigrants who get angry over the illegal immigration issue. For those who don't, I would assume that they either don't care or they understand and possibly empathize with what illegal immigrants deal with in order to survive and provide for their families.

I lived overseas for a few years. I was there legally. I personally never took offense to people who may have been there illegally. I never once thought undocumented workers were my nemesis or competition and I never thought the issue was my battle to fight.

[Dr. Jones]

28. The issue WOULD BE your battle to fight if

you were a construction worker here in the U.S. and you lost your job because your company began to hire lower-paid illegals. Then you found out how hard it was to be re-hired in the industry because companies won't let you back in.

The issue WOULD BE your battle to fight if you were a unionized worker in a meatpacking plant and you were laid off, only to see your company reopen its doors several years later, but they're only hiring illegals and they won't let American middle class workers back in.

These things are happening EVERY DAY!

[Fleshdancer]

31. Then my battle would be with the company, not the exploited workers.

if I was a construction worker who was fired because my company decided to do business illegally, then my battle would involve calling the authorities and ratting out the company. I still wouldn't consider the undocumented workers as my enemy...I would probably feel sad for them for being exploited but pity and anger are two different things.

I'm in Texas. I'm very aware of this issue and I've had conversations with undocumented workers before. I knew a few women who had boyfriends who were undocumented workers. I heard their stories and listened to their drama. I grew up all my life with the knowledge that undocumented workers live and work here.

It's too easy to deamonize a group of people you don't know. It's much harder to deamonize a group of people when you've met a few of them and begin to understand their side of the story. So no, I don't agree that my battle should be with these people. I have no interest in making it so.

[NNN0LHI]

26. Suppose your mom and dad were "illegal" but you were legal

Would you be speaking out against them "illegals" a whole lot?

Don

[izzybeans]

27. Probably because they know citizenship processes are an unequal

game better than anyone. Time, money, connections, etc.

Most "Illegals" would be legal if they had the resources (including time and money) to make it happen. The difference between legal and not is a bureaucratic process and nothing more.


You might pick up a copy of International Migration Review and read it.

[Dr. Jones]

29. I disagree.

Look at the millions of legal immigrants who have come to our country. They saved and saved and srcounged until they could come up with enough money - not really very much - to come to the U.S. legally. Their drive to come to America for a better life was so strong, they were willing to work as hard as possible to achieve their dream of coming here.

So now we are supposed to justify illegal immigration based on the fact that suddenly, nobody has the money to come here anymore? I think that's a copout.

[izzybeans]

42. The difference between European immigration and Latin American

is an unfavorable exchange rate and years of increasing processing fees.

To scrounge up a years salary for paper work is a big deal. The desire of illegals and legals is the same. I think we agree in principle just in in process.

I see what you are saying however.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

30. I do!

I work as an immigration paralegal for foreign professionals, entertainers, athletes, performers, fashion models, etc. For the past week, all I hear is, "Will this mean it will take even longer for me to get a green card?" Their fear is that the interests of legal immigrants (such as they are) will not be protected or forgotten, as the interests of illegal immigrants will be made paramount.

I am a legal immigrant myself. While I understand the rationale behind trying to make a better life for yourself, I also know that there is no country in the world to which you can immigrate without complying with that country's laws. I would like to live in Australia, but I would have to respect its laws. If I were to swim the Pacific and enter Australia illegally, then I would be aware that my life would be spent in hiding, without proper documentation, and, while I could probably avail myself of Australia's social services, I would be doing so unfairly. I could probably find a job, but because of my status, that job would probably pay little.

Illegal immigration has nothing to do with race; immigrating to the U.S. legally is very hard, time consuming and expensive (just ask any legal immigrant). For many legal immigrants, to see that those who enter illegally by mere fortune of being geographically next to the borders of the U.S. may not be punished but isntead rewarded for their actions is a slap in the face.

I recognize the importance of illegal labor to U.S. industry, but I also recognize that illegal labor pads the profits of companies, small and large, and reduces wages for all U.S. workers (citizens and legal immigrants). Something's gotta give. It may also be interesting to note that an illegal immigrant right now has few (if any) ways to rectify his/her immigration status, whereas someone who entered legally but overstayed a visa or has worked illegally after entering legally has more options.

In short, entering the U.S. illegally means having to live a life making little or no money, in fear of immigration authorities, unable to unionize and demand better wages and benefits, knowing your children may not be able to attend college because of your status.

[Dr. Jones]

32. Excellent insightful post!

Thanks for sharing! :)

[Bridget Burke]

40. Could the average poor Mexican afford your company's services?

Does your company do much pro bono work for the deserving, hardworking folks with few resources?

I work with professionals from many countries & they have to jump through hoops to stay here.

[slackmaster]

33. Most legal immigrants have jobs, homes, families

Responsibilities that take precedence over going out and protesting something they may not feel very strongly about.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Because most "legals" support the "illegals".

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5306123

[Dr. Jones]

37. There's lots of people out there who are lumping

LEGAL and ILLEGAL together. Hence the importance of threads such as this that purposefully distinguish between the two. If I were a legal immigrant I would be alarmed too.

It's ILLEGAL immigration that needs to be addressed. Legal immigrants are still welcome in our country!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. Did you listen to the link?

[Bridget Burke]

41. I've seen some posts questioning ANY immigration at DU.

Legal or not. "The USA is full!" they exclaim.

And some of the legal immigrants WILL be lumped in with the others. Because of the way they look or speak, they will need to keep their "papers" with them at all times. At least they have papers. Some native born will also get caught up in sweeps.

[Strawman]

39. Hmm...direct our ire at people making billions or at those making pennies

Cast judgement upon people who risked death coming across the border in packed like sardines in some poorly ventilated container in order to make sub minimum wage busting their asses picking fruit or digging ditches, or direct at the top .1% who own half the goddamn country and want even more at everyone else's expense?

I'll be damned if I'm going to sit in judgement of people who are engaged in a fight for their basic survival everyday, risk death to come here in order to have a better life that is still exponentially more difficult than anything my pampered little middle class white ass has ever known and call them "criminals." If I'm going to have a protest, it's sure as hell not going to be about that. I would imagine alot of legal immigrants feel the same way. There are people who look around and begrudge anyone beneath them for getting any sort of "break" (if you can even call it that) they had to "earn" the hard way, and there are those who look toward the root causes of unfairness in society and direct there resentments to those responsible for those arrangements.

We'll never fix this problem until we fix the demands that drive it. You say you believe that every person should be treated with love, respect and dignity. Ask yourself this. How do we get there? Do we want to solve the underlying issues that cause illegal immigration or just make it something that is not "our problem?"

It's a complicated issue. The status quo (with high illegal immigration) is bad for almost everybody. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I know where to lay blame and who should bear the costs of reform and it isn't anyone making sub-minimum wage. I know that's one "solution," but the only "virtue" of that approach is that politically it's fucking easy.

[Dr. Jones]

43. Well I personally think it's pretty outrageous

that we should be excusing that which is illegal!

Do you feel sorry then for poor Charles Manson, he's packed like a sardine in his jail cell. He broke the law and now the poor guy's suffering. Do you feel sorry for Abramoff, he broke the law and now he will also be packed like a sardine in a jail cell. The point is, here in America there are repercussions for breaking the law. To go and grant amnesty to a group of individuals who came into our country the ILLEGAL way, well, as I pointed out and at least one poster corroborrated, it's a slap in the face to all who have come into this country legally.

Thing is, we cannot solve the underlying issues that cause illegal immigration as you suggest because now you're talking about societies of foreign nations. We cannot control what Vicente Fox does or how he governs. We cannot come into Mexico with U.S. laws and change the fabric of their society. It doesn't work that way. And of course the main incentive for illegals to come into the U.S. is to find work for greedy, callous U.S. companies who are more than willing to put profit ahead of humane treatment of workers - because they cannot find work in their own country.

However, as one poster pointed out, I believe they ARE working towards an integrated Mexico/US/Canada where there will be no borders at all. Thus the U.S. will become far poorer and all three nations will balance out economically.

[Strawman]

47. wow. you got me

coming to another country illegally to make a living and being a serial killer or corrupting the goverment and defrauding people out of millions are equivalent offenses. Hey, I'm convinced. That was a modern day Lyceum Address.

And those homeless people who might happen to lean up against private buildings when they fall asleep, they're trespassing. they're just as bad as serial killers too. Think I'm going to organize a protest against them.

When you're right, you're right. And if it were 1850 and I happened to spot a fugitive slave, I'd promptly turn him in to the authorities and then organize a protest. The law's, the law.

Do you really think that these illegal immigrants are all "bad" people? It's not about a "slap in the face" to anyone. It's about survival.

If someone takes 99% of a pie and stuffs it in his fat mouth and you and another guy are left fighting for the crumbs, who's the asshole, the guy who took 99% or the other guy trying to get a bite who also happens to have not eaten all day?

Being opposed to illegal immigration or open borders for sound policy reasons needn't involve scapegoating people. I'm not sure what the solution is, but that's not any part of it.

[Bridget Burke]

50. Yeah--we've got an ILLEGAL president who started an ILLEGAL war....

So let's get angry at someone who swam across the border.

You're way out of line with the Manson comparison. So many of these anti-"illegal" guys start out with logical arguments, then show their true colors.

[SYNERCHOSIS]

46. There is an easy solution to immigration.

Why don't the 11 million illegals return to their home countries and form resistance groups to oppose their elected governments, or overthrow non democratic regimes. When they establish countrol they can insist that their government makes sure that business's pay them how much they are worth not how little they can get away with paying. When the evil corporations leach on a another country if those people do the same then these soul sucking companies will be on the run world wide. The only way to shut down these people is with a world wide resistance.

[Nikia]

49. Because that might be considered unethical and have social consequences

For some immigrant groups, "community" is very important and illegal immigrants might be part of your "commuinty". Protesting against members of your "community" would be seen as a betrayal.

[shireen]

51. you're picking on the wrong people!

Why isn't anyone going after the REAL law-breakers, the employers who want cheap labor? They're the ones helping to destroy the middle class. They're the ones keeping wages low. They're the ones abusing illegal immigrants.

If law enforcement officials aggressively went after those that employ illegal aliens, there will be less demand for illegal immigrant workers. Therefore, there will be less reason for them to risk their lives to come here. For Mexico, in particular, if illegal immigrants stayed home, they would most likely be a politically active demographics that will fight for political change in Mexico. That's one reason why Vincente Fox likes things just the way they are.

BTW, I am an immigrant citizen, all done legally. But I have deep sympathy for the illegals -- all they're trying to do is make a better life for themselves. They're the victims of a totally screwed up political system!

[enfield collector]

52. legal immigrant here, I don't have time to protest I'm too busy

working. but it ticks me off no end when people ask me if I'm illegal.

[IselaB]

53. Let me ask you a question

Are you under the impression that a poor, uneducated laborer from Mexico has an equal chance of obtaining legal residency, much less citizenship, as, say, a college-educated German kid from a family with a lot of money? You think such opportunities are handed out equally to everybody, without regard for country of origin, economic status, social status, and even ethnicity?

To answer your question, most legal immigrants to this country are probably not as naive about the process as you are.

[GRLMGC]

54. Because I'm not gonna close the door behind me

And I have sympathy for human beings just wanting a better life. I wish they had an easier time coming in here legally so they wouldn't have to basically live underground. I also believe Sensebrenner's bill is evil bullshit and I don't want the police to ask me for my papers because I look Latina.