Kerry, you've got to be kidding me!

[CornField]

In my email box this morning:

"With the pivotal 2006 elections approaching... We won't stand for Swift Boat-style attacks. Support the Fight Back Fund now."

So sorry, Sen. Kerry. I remember a time not so long ago I donated to help you "fight back" and you rolled over. I think there are several in the Democratic Party much more deserving of my hard-earned funds. Still, thanks for sending 2005 out with a big ole belly laugh.

[FloridaPat]

1. My reaction too. I've been fighting back since 2000 election.

Would have been nice to have the Democrats with me. At any point.

[Dogmudgeon]

2. Gee, I'm disappointed. I think I'll do nothing.

Yeah, that's the ticket!

--p!

[Tarc]

9. He didn't say that.

The poster just said that his money would go elsewhere, presumably to Democratic causes other than Kerry's.

[CornField]

18. Thank you -- that's exactly what I said

Although I am a she and not a he... ;)

[Tarc]

25. oops

Sorry, bad assumption on my part. :blush:

I was completely behind Kerry in `04...after Dean dropped out...but some of his strategic political moves were anything but. I'm not too wild about him trying again in `08.

[ClassWarrior]

3. I guess JK's trying to do for the next candidate what his colleagues...

...wouldn't do for him.

You need to decide to whom you want to donate, but do you really need to ridicule a Dem for trying to help his fellow Dems learn from his situation?

NGU.

[DS1]

19. Maybe we can keep Donna Brazille bound and gagged in a basement

during the campaign season. Her "advice" is nothing but poison.

[TheDebbieDee]

22. I'll second that motion!

[liberalhistorian]

171. I'll third it!

Keep her the hell AWAY from any future national Dem campaigns! She means well, and her heart is in the right place, but she just doesn't run effective campaigns.

[Dr.Phool]

31. How about Gitmo?

[ClassWarrior]

54. Shrum too.

NGU.

[gulfcoastliberal]

110. And don't forget Cahill.. nt

[BamaLefty]

217. Cahill sucks donkey balls

Kerry needs to be slapped for even giving her a chance.

[LittleClarkie]

152. Considering what she did for, or rather to, Gore

Hearing her critique the Kerry campaign was beyond annoying.

[whometense]

172. Can I fourth it?

She is just bad news any way you look at it.

[Blaukraut]

174. being friends with Karl Rove

makes her support and advice for any Dem highly suspicious. She is not only useless, but dangerous, too. imho

[politicasista]

178. No more of her.

She even screwed up Gore's campaign headquarters here, now she is eating Smirky's cheese and saying she will rebuild NOLA with him. :puke:

[whometense]

194. Yeah, I heard that too.

Can I join you in that :puke:?

[LittleClarkie]

159. That would be like condemning Gore for coming out fighting

Gee, why didn't he do that in 2000. :sarcasm:

And yeah, I think that the Dem Party's support for Kerry was somewhat paltry. Sadly, I think they wanted Hillary 2008 more than Kerry 2004. I wonder how many Hillary people panicked when Kerry started to gain momentum.

[liberalhistorian]

167. Excuse me, but Kerry is the one

who didn't follow advice and go after the Swift Boat Liars as soon as they started their attack in August of '04. He was urged to fight back immediately and hard, but said that it was better if he took the high road and people wouldn't fall for their lies anyway. Yeah, right!

And then he rolled over and conceded when he should have fought what was very obvious election fraud and irregularities. I agree with the OP, JK ain't gettin' no more of my money or support.

[blm]

170. READ POST 38 and spread some TRUTH for a change. Media lies DAILY.

.

[jillan]

216. Well said !

That is exactly what it is all about.

[DistressedAmerican]

4. WOW! That Is A Fucking Joke!

His only defense for 6 weeks of Swift Boat attacks was to come out everyday and say "Bush should distance himself from those remarks." Way to fight back Johhny! The guy was a joke from the start and he has not gotten any better despite multiple opportunities to do so.

[LittleClarkie]

143. In your opinion, of course.

Some of us have a different one.

[blm]

5. He didn't "roll over" - he didn't have the HARD EVIDENCE needed to mount

the attack you wanted. He is still in two court cases in Ohio.

The machines need to be secured BEFORE elections because after is too late - the rigged machines are set up for onetime use and then there is no evidence.

BTW...so far, Kerry is the ONLY SENATOR who even believes in machine fraud at this point - you want him to shut up?

It would be nice if he had other Dems to work WITH HIM and not AGAINST HIM for a change. There are already way too many who do that.

Thank undergod we have Kerry looking to protect OTHER candidates the way MacAuliffe's DNC was incapable of doing.

[Skip Intro]

8. shhhhh...you're gonna ruin the bashing party

[politicasista]

176. LOL!

:rofl:

[msongs]

15. List all of Kerry's evote fraud legislation here -->

ya know the ones, all the bills requiring open source code, paper trail, hand counts, full disclosure of exit poll raw data,
that sort of stuff.

Here is the complete list of legislation Kerry has introduced to deal with any/all of the above issues:



(insert your list here)


Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[bigtree]

23. ok. 1. Kerry Files Motion to Protect Ohio Vote Evidence

Tuesday, December 28, 2004
Kerry Files Motion to Protect Ohio Vote Evidence

Unlike those mysterious WMD, this is evidence Dubsy would not like you to see. I'm sure there is a little clause in the Patriot Act II that allows for the president to burn any evidence he likes...along with kicking down your door and charging you with domestic terrorism...with no evidence.

William Rivers Pitt from Truthout reports:

This afternoon, an attorney representing the Kerry/Edwards presidential campaign filed two important motions to preserve and augment evidence of alleged election fraud in the November election. The motions were filed in the matter titled Yost et al. v. Delaware County Board of Elections and J. Kenneth Blackwell (Civil Action No. C2-04-1139) with the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Ohio. The document is titled "Motion Of Intervenor-Defendant Kerry-Edwards 2004, Inc. For A Preservation Order And For A Leave To Take Limited Expedited Discovery."

The purpose of the motions is twofold: A) To preserve all ballots and voting machines pertaining to the Yost matter for investigation and analysis; and B) To make available for sworn deposition testimony a technician for Triad Systems, the company that produced and maintained many of the voting machines used in the Ohio election. The technician has been accused of tampering with the recount process in Hocking County, Ohio, though other counties are believed to have also been involved. Any officers of Triad Systems who have information pertaining to said tampering are likewise subject to subpoena for sworn deposition testimony.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/122804V.shtml

[LittleClarkie]

147. Found this on an honest Ohio election site

"Thursday, September 01, 2005

Don McTigue, the attorney for John Kerry and John Edwards, made an appearance in the federal courthouse in Toledo, Ohio (Judge Carr) and informed the Court that Kerry/Edwards will remain in the case.
Schedule set: September 15, 2005 is the deadline to file amended complaints. Discovery period ends on May 1, 2006. Summary judgment motions deadline is May 15, 2006."

Somebody said that the date has been set, but I can't remember when that was supposed to be. I can only go by the dates above. I assume we will hear something in May, 2006.

[rosesaylavee]

71. Here are a few actions the Senator took the months following the election.

1.) 12/8/04 http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/cfm/record.cfm?id=229965

WASHINGTON, D.C. –Senator John Kerry released the following statement today on election reform:
"It's critical that we investigate and understand any and every voting irregularity anywhere in our country, not because it would change the outcome of the election but because Americans have to believe that their votes are counted in our democracy. We should be working together to reform the system because it should be unacceptable to anyone, Democrat or Republican, that in the United States many people still don't have full confidence in the integrity of the voting process. I want every vote counted in this election, but I also want to make sure there are no questions or doubts in future elections. That's not too much to ask in the world's greatest democracy and model for free elections."

2.) http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_bills&docid=f:s450is.txt.pdf

"To amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 to require a voter-verified
paper record, to improve provisional balloting, to impose additional requirements under such Act, and for other purposes.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
FEBRUARY 17, 2005
Mrs. CLINTON (for herself, Mrs. BOXER, Mr. KERRY, Mr. LAUTENBERG, and Ms. MIKULSKI) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and
referred to the Committee on Rules and Administration

A BILL
To amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 to require
a voter-verified paper record, to improve provisional balloting,
to impose additional requirements under such Act,
and for other purposes."

[MH1]

119. Bill cosponsorship

(Perhaps it was decided he should not sponsor these because then it becomes about him. You know, Senators do actually work together sometimes. For example he was right there with Clinton on S.450. Why is her name on the bill instead of his?)

You can find details of these on thomas.loc.gov

S.195 : A bill to provide for full voting representation in Congress for the citizens of the District of Columbia, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Lieberman, Joseph I. (introduced 1/26/2005) Cosponsors (13)
Committees: Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
Latest Major Action: 3/9/2005 Referred to Senate subcommittee. Status: Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs referred to Subcommittee on Oversight of Government Management, the Federal Workforce, and the District of Columbia.

S.391 : A bill to amend the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to prohibit certain State election administration officials from actively participating in electoral campaigns.
Sponsor: Sen Lautenberg, Frank R. (introduced 2/16/2005) Cosponsors (5)
Committees: Senate Rules and Administration
Latest Major Action: 2/16/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Rules and Administration.

S.450 : A bill to amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 to require a voter-verified paper record, to improve provisional balloting, to impose additional requirements under such Act, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Clinton, Hillary Rodham (introduced 2/17/2005) Cosponsors (6)
Committees: Senate Rules and Administration
Latest Major Action: 2/17/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Rules and Administration.

S.1975 : A bill to prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack (introduced 11/8/2005) Cosponsors (4)
Committees: Senate Rules and Administration
Latest Major Action: 11/8/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Rules and Administration.

And please note the number of cosponsors on each of these. Here, I'll even bold it for you. Maybe it is not Kerry who should be attacked here?

[blm]

125. Thanks - your post is more complete than mine.

We need this info on hand.

It's sad how many Dems attack Kerry unfairly. Just like during IranContra and BCCI when Dems wanted him to shut up and go away.

Never fails.

[blm]

122. I guess you missed a few he humbly co=sponsored....

S.391 : A bill to amend the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to prohibit certain State election administration officials from actively participating in electoral campaigns.
Sponsor: Sen Lautenberg, Frank R. (introduced 2/16/2005) Cosponsors (5)
Committees: Senate Rules and Administration
Latest Major Action: 2/16/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Rules and Administration.

S.450 : A bill to amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 to require a voter-verified paper record, to improve provisional balloting, to impose additional requirements under such Act, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Clinton, Hillary Rodham (introduced 2/17/2005) Cosponsors (6)
Committees: Senate Rules and Administration
Latest Major Action: 2/17/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Rules and Administration.

S.1975 : A bill to prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack (introduced 11/8/2005) Cosponsors (4)
Committees: Senate Rules and Administration
Latest Major Action: 11/8/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Rules and Administration.

[BlueManDude]

36. "Swift Boat" attacks and Ohio results are 2 different issues.

Kerry acted like a pansy - yes a pansy for lack of a better word - when his honor came under fire.

He lets a draft dodger call him a wimp. Pathetic. Sorry.

[blm]

44. The corporate media didn't DISCUSS Kerry's defense or the FACTS. You side

with them when you repeat their version of the campaign. I believe the articles generated by Kerry that PROVED Kerry was truthful.

[FreedomAngel82]

79. Oh yeah

I'm sure that good old liberal media would jump on it. :sarcasm: Give me a break. They didn't even let Dean mention a while back on "Hardball" that Kerry had an exit plan way before John Murtha did. So good luck with that there "liberal" media.

[Marr]

84. Are you kidding? There was plenty of evidence.

The problem was that Mr. Kerry wouldn't risk being called a kook. That's all. He would've been flushing his political career, and apparently he decided that our election process wasn't worth that.

I won't be donating to any "fight back" Kerry funds, thanks. There are plenty of people out there who can be counted on to put the cause ahead of their careers when it matters. I'll donate to them.

[blm]

95. To mount a case like that on his own he needed hard evidence IN HAND.

Rigged machines are set up for onetime use and there isn't a TRACE of evidence in them afterwards.

The DNC didn't even BELIEVE in machine fraud and wasn't going to support him. Bill Richardson has even been trying to squelch the vote fraud cases in NM.

Kerry is still in two court cases in Ohio that he could effect.

Name the lawmakers saying the machines are rigged.

[Imagine My Surprise]

6. Ditto

[bigtree]

7. So,

if, in the next election, the media succeeds in suppressing any and all efforts to fight back, you'll blame our candidate?

Kerry did fight back.

You couldn't have been following John Kerry's campaign closely and come away
with the impression that his campaign wasn't hitting back hard enough.
Unless you are relying on his detractors in the mainstream media for your info.

Here's a good source for releases that weren't on his site and don't always make the network news. http://releases.usnewswire.com /

Kerry Campaign: Halliburton Goes for Gold - In Scandal Pentathlon
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=133-08 ...

Kerry-Edwards 2004 Releases Fact Sheet on Bush-Cheney Ad
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=134-08 ...

White House Again Refuses to Condemn Blatantly False Ad, Says Kerry-Edwards 2004
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=144-08 ...

Statement from Kerry Advisor Rand Beers on President's Remarks in Florida
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=137-08 ...

Statement by John Kerry on the Selection of Porter Goss to be Director of CIA
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=136-08 ...

Kerry-Edwards 2004 Fact Sheet: George Bush's Failed Fiscal Policies
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=119-08 ...

Kerry-Edwards 2004 Releases Report: Bush's Failed Fiscal Policies; Former Treasury Secretary to Discuss Report on 11:30 a.m. Call
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=117-08 ...

Kerry-Edwards: Committed to Ensuring Nevada Does Not Become A Nuclear Waste Repository
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=108-08 ...

Kerry-Edwards 2004 Releases Bush-Cheney Ad Fact Check: "Ownership"
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=133-08 ...

Kerry-Edwards Campaign Response to Bush Radio Address
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=104-08 ...

Kerry Campaign Response to Latest Misleading Bush-Cheney Ad - 'Clockwork'
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=146-08 ...

Kerry-Edwards 2004 Fact Sheet: Aug. 6 Anniversary -- Three Years Later, Problems Still Exist
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=131-08 ...

Kerry Statement on Latest Jobs Numbers
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=124-08 ...

Kerry-Edwards 2004: Halliburton Fined for Accounting Gimmicks While Cheney was CEO
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=140-08 ...

Kerry-Edwards Fact Sheet: Dick Cheney's Legislative Accomplishments ... Both of Them
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=142-08 ...

Kerry Campaign: George W. Bush - We Agree, Results Matter
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=125-08 ...

Kerry Campaign Reality Check: White House Claims on Implementing 9/11 Commission Recommendations
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=122-08 ...

Did He Really Say That? -- Kerry-Edwards Campaign Comment on Remarks by Sen. Zell Miller on 'Meet The Press'
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=103-08 ...



Kerry Criticizes Bush for Space Vision
http://www.space.com/spacenews/kerry_040616.html

Kerry criticizes Bush on military record
http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/26kerry.html

Kerry criticizes Bush for failed policies
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/8202438.htm...

NPR : Kerry Criticizes Bush on Iraq
http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1842198

USATODAY.com - Kerry criticizes Bush on Iraq, treatment of U.S. veterans
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/2003-08-...

Yahoo! News - Kerry Criticizes Bush's Military Policy
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&u=/ap/200...

Kerry Criticizes Bush's Iraq Policy (phillyBurbs.com)
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/32-03182004-2664...

Kerry Criticizes Bush Policy On Haiti
http://www.mattapanonline.org/Kerry_on%20Haiti.htm

Report: Kerry Criticizes Bush Foreign Policy
http://www.evote.com/News/EV05202002B.html

washingtonpost.com: Kerry Criticizes President, Then Undergoes Surgery
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A40572-2004Mar...

KSL News: Kerry Criticizes Bush Over Gay Marriage
http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?sid=77296&nid=6

ABC 7 News - Kerry Criticizes Bush on U.S. Security
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0304/132238.html

Democratic Underground Forums - Kerry Criticizes Bush's Definition of Values
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

washingtonpost.com: Kerry Criticizes Bush For Attacks on Clarke
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A29991-2004Mar...

Kerry Criticizes Bush for Red Carpet Expense
http://www.townhall.com/news/politics/200406/POL2004061...

Yahoo! News - Kerry Criticizes Bush on Saudi Meeting
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&e=7...

RightNation.US -> Kerry Criticizes Bush for Red Carpet Expense
http://www.rightnation.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=42...

Kerry criticizes Bush for siding with drug companies in new ad
http://www.wtvo.com/Global/story.asp?S=1533926

USATODAY.com - Kerry criticizes Bush on meeting with Saudi leader
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/p...

SignOnSanDiego.com > News > Politics -- Kerry criticizes Bush's Daytona 'photo opportunity'
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20040216-14...

Kerry criticizes Bush on Iraq, treatment of U.S. veterans
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archi...

SignOnSanDiego.com > News > Politics -- Kerry criticizes Bush over oil report
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20040419-15...

FOXNews.com - You Decide 2004 - Kerry Criticizes Bush, Cheney on Military
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C118380%2C00.htm...

ABC 7 News - Kerry Criticizes Bush for Bioethics Panel
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0204/129618.html

Kerry criticizes U.S. oil policies during Seattle campaign swing
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/175067_kerrystate.h...

AP Wire | 07/10/2003 | Kerry Criticizes Bush on Education
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/62...

FOXNews.com - You Decide 2004 - Kerry Criticizes 'Separate and Unequal' Schools
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C120098%2C00.htm...

Kerry criticizes Bush on nuclear threat, outlines plan to slow spread
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/8812087.htm?...

AP Wire | 03/17/2004 | Kerry criticizes Bush for failed policies
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/8202438.htm

AP Wire | 03/14/2003 | Kerry Criticizes Bush on Diplomacy
http://www.dfw.com/mld/state/5388491.htm

KTVU.com - Politics - Kerry Criticizes 'Saudi-George Bush' Gas Tax
http://www.ktvu.com/politics/3346936/detail.html

News-Leader.com | True Ozarks | Kerry criticizes Bush on stem-cell, science policies
http://www.news-leader.com/_tuesday/0622-Kerrycriti-117...

Kerry criticizes Bush over gay marriage, broken promises after winning three more states
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm18597_20040225.h...

The Seattle Times: Kerry criticizes Bush's record on jobs, health care, terror
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2001863810_campai...

The Seattle Times: Kerry criticizes firing of worker over photo
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2001912775_iraqdi...

Kerry Campaign Criticizes Those Who Defend 'Outsourcing'
http://www.townhall.com/news/politics/200407/POL2004070...

KRT Wire | 07/15/2004 | Kerry criticizes Bush for rejection of NAACP invite
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/politics/9165213.htm

KR Washington Bureau | 07/16/2004 | Kerry criticizes Bush for intelligence failures in Iraq
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9174072.htm

KRT Wire | 03/17/2004 | Kerry Criticizes Bush for Failing to Protect Troops in Iraq
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/national/...

KSAT.com - News - Kerry Criticizes Bush During Speech In S.A.
http://www.ksat.com/news/2430649/detail.html

Capitol Hill Watch | Sen. Kerry Criticizes Wait List for Veterans Seeking Health Services
http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/rep_index.cf...

The Salt Lake Tribune -- Kerry criticizes Bush for failing to rally more allies
http://www.sltrib2002.com/2004/Jun/06292004/nation_w/17...

t r u t h o u t - Senator Kerry Criticizes U.S. Tactics
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9174072.htm

Kerry Criticizes Bush on 9/11 Response :Plans to Reimburse Familes for Body Armor
http://www.blog.johnkerry.com/cgi-bin/mt-comments.cgi?e...

ABC13.com: John Kerry makes stop in Houston; criticizes Pres. Bush
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/042204_local_kerry.htm...

KRT Wire | 12/03/2002 | Kerry proposes tax cuts, criticizes Bush tax policy
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/46579...



MSNBC - Kerry rips ‘character assassination’ of Clarke
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4615144

Democrat Kerry Still Critical of Bush Administration -- 12/14/2003
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page= \Politics\archive\200312\POL20031214a.html

NPR : Kerry Critical of Bush's Iraq Plans
http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1837708

SignOnSanDiego.com > News > Politics -- Bush aides tout job growth, but Kerry critical
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/federal/200...

Kerry Says US Needs Its Own 'Regime Change'
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0403-08.htm

Kerry Responds to Combat Injury Questions (phillyBurbs.com)
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/32-04212004-2866...

John Kerry Responds To Draft Dodging GOP
http://www.bushalert.com/news/95

Lean Left: Kerry Responds with Ads
http://www.leanleft.com/archives/002883.html

ContraCostaTimes.com | 03/13/2004 | Kerry responds to Bush attack ad
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/817793...

NBC11.com - Politics - Kerry Responds To Charges He Tossed War Medals
http://www.nbc11.com/politics/3228428/detail.html

U.S. Newswire - Kerry Campaign Responds to Revised Terror Report
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=140-06...

swisspolitics.org | Kerry responds to Bush video
http://www.swisspolitics.org/en/news/index.php?section=...

KTVU.com - Politics - New Kerry Ad Responds To Bush's Claims
http://www.ktvu.com/politics/2919181/detail.html

Kerry Campaign Responds to White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan Attacks ::
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_031...

MSNBC - Kerry blasts Bush over attacks on Senate voting record
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4344203

Kerry Attacks Bush's Military Policies
http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/newswire/news2004/...

Kerry Attacks Bush Foreign Policy
http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/text5-28-2004-54778.as...

Kerry attacks Bush on foreign policy
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/8461907.htm...

IHT: Kerry attacks Bush on schools
http://www.iht.com/articles/518430.html

ABCNEWS.com : Kerry Attacks Bush Energy Policy
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/kerry...

CNN.com - Kerry hits Bush reaction to 9/11 attack news - Aug 5, 2004
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/05/kerry.911

Kerry Attacks Bush On Tepid Jobs Growth
http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=23...

WYTV - Kerry Attacks Bush in Valley Speech
http://www.wytv.com/news/headlines/698977.html

Kerry again attacks Bush administration
http://www.eagletribune.com/news/stories/20030426/FP_00...

John Kerry Attacks Bush on Stem Cell Research Policy
http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=31&a...

Herald.com | 04/06/2004 | Kerry attacks Bush's spending
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/politics/8364...

FOXNews.com - You Decide 2004 - Kerry Attacks Bush Compassionate Conservatism
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C122688%2C00.htm...

The Left Coaster: Kerry Attacks Bush on Iraq, Veterans Issues At VFW Convention
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/000507.html

Kerry presses attacks on Bush
http://www.indystar.com/articles/0/160393-5460-093.html

Yahoo! News - Kerry Attacks Bush's Record on Defending Homeland
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=2...

Portsmouth Herald Local News: Kerry attacks aimed at Bush
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/02172004/news/351.ht...

KTVU.com - Politics - Kerry Attacks Bush's Conduct Of War
http://www.ktvu.com/politics/3016233/detail.html

Kerry attacks Bush on science - (United Press International)
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20040621-012423-2...

FOXNews.com - Politics - Kerry Attacks Bush While Defending Iraq Resolution Vote
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C92547%2C00.html

ABCNEWS.com : Kerry Sharpens Attacks Against Iraq War
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040618_118.html

Democratic Underground Forums - Kerry remembers Kennedy, attacks Bush
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The Seattle Times: National politics: Kerry attacks Bush as divisive president
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationalpolitics/...

Kerry Attacks Bush On Education, Affirmative Action at Brown Anniversary Ceremony -- GOPUSA
http://www.gopusa.com/news/2004/may/0518_brown_annivers...

RobBernard.com: Kerry attacks Bush team as "crooked" and liars
http://www.robbernard.com/archives/000990.html

Yahoo! News - Kerry attacks Bush terror policy after new al-Qaeda warning
http://article.wn.com/link/WNAT8D4D3C000A7949799ABB344C...

USATODAY.com - Kerry blasts Bush over attacks on record
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/p...

Kerry Campaign Attacks Cheney re: Halliburton
http://www.the-hamster.com/mtype/archives/001379.html

Kerry Sprinkles Jobs Message With Attacks on Iraq Policy
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A195-2004Apr9?...

AP Wire | 12/02/2002 | Kerry Steps Up Attacks on Bush Policies
http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/4644529.htm

Kerry report attacks Bush for the loss of U.S. jobs
http://www.newsisfree.com/click/i%2C41285835%2C3952%2Cr...



At UI, Kerry slams Bushonomics
http://www.dailyiowan.com/main.cfm/include/detail/story...

ScrappleFace: Kerry Slams Bush Failure to Find New Threats
http://www.scrappleface.com/MT/archives/001785.html

Salon.com | John Kerry slams Bush's "raw deal" for America
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2003/12/08/kerry_s...

Worldandnation: Kerry slams Bush on environment record
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/04/21/Worldandnation/Kerry_...

Kerry slams job loss under Bush at Detroit event
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1155575/posts

Scotsman.com News - International - Kerry slams Bush for encouraging terrorism
http://article.wn.com/link/WNAT185BE9B267D1BAA6C007ABC2...

USATODAY.com - Kerry slams response to Iraq prison abuse
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/p...

Kerry Slams 'Saudi-George Bush' Gas Tax (phillyBurbs.com)
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/32-05252004-3063...

Multichannel News - Kerry Slams Networks, Notes Cable DNC Coverage
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA442669?display=Br...

CNN.com - Kerry slams Bush on terrorism - Feb. 27, 2004
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/27/elec04.prez.m...

CNN.com - Kerry slams Bush on Iraq, military - Mar 19, 2004
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/17/kerry

FOXNews.com - You Decide 2004 - Kerry Slams Bush in NAACP Speech
http://www.hallindseyoracle.com/url_redirect.asp?Articl...

The Seattle Times: Nation & World: Kerry slams Bush over gas prices
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/20019...

Yahoo! News - Kerry seeks minority support; slams Bush on poverty
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1506&e=...

Kerry Slams Bush Over Iraq WMDs Joke
http://feeds.newzealandnews.net/?rid=c86e3126894b2ce6

Kerry finds gold, slams Bush in Bay Area visit / Exasperated senator calls GOP 'so petty'
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/cgi-bin/news/news.cgi?id...

Scotsman.com News - International - Kerry slams 'crooked' rivals
http://www.news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=28215...

The Australian: Kerry slams Bush foreign policy
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/...

Kerry bashes Bush on health care costs
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/8630863.htm...

Kerry Bashes Bush on Health Care Costs (phillyBurbs.com)
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/32-05102004-2973...

Hispanic Business - Massachusetts Sen. Kerry Bashes Bush's Hispanic Agenda
http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/newsbyid.asp?id=76...

United Press International: Analysis: Kerry attack machine bashes Bush
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040217-061854-235...

Kerry bashes Bush tax cut proposal - iBerkshires.com - Business
http://housatonic.iberkshires.com/business/story9307.ht...

Sen. Kerry Chides GOP (Self Proclaimed Patriots) on War Comments, Bashes Bush >> Hypocrites.com
http://www.hypocrites.com/article3738.html

Kerry courts rural voters on 3-day Midwest swing / He bashes president on weak economy, health insurance gap
http://article.wn.com/link/WNATFFEAC14FF83761822378754A...

Star - Kerry steals rival's tune and bashes Bush over job losses
http://www.star.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=132&fArticle...

Boston.com / News / Nation / Kerry questions Bush's wartime leadership
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/k...

Kerry Questions Bush Iraq Policy
http://www.evote.com/News/EV09062002C.html

Kerry Questions Bush Attendance in Guard in 70's
http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/print.cgi?file=/hea...

USATODAY.com - Kerry questions Bush on Iraq deadline
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/p...

Indepements for Kerry : Questions for Bush on Iraq
http://www.independentsforkerry.com/info/index.php?cate...

USATODAY.com - Sen. John Kerry questions Bush's credibility
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/benedett...

Kerry Questions Bush Handling of Enron Investigation
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C125190%2C00.htm...



here's the original page with working links http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=612260

[DistressedAmerican]

11. Well That Is A Lot Of Links.

Funny none of them seem to focus on the Swift Boaters. Can Kerry criticize Bush? Sure. Did he fight effectively against the swifties? NOT AT ALL. Like I said above his main response for 6 weeks was to come out everyday and say "Bush should distance himself from these remarks."

Wanna provide some links on the big fight he waged against the switfies who killed his run?

[bigtree]

14. here's a release from the Kerry camp from April of that year

Key Unanswered Questions: Bush’s Record In The National Guard

link broken


“If George Bush wants to ask me questions about that through his surrogates, he owes America an explanation about whether or not he showed up for duty in the National Guard. Prove it. That's what we ought to have. I'm not going to stand around and let them play games.” -- John Kerry, NBC News, 4/26/04


~Bush Has Said He Used No Special Treatment To Get Into The Guard. How Does He Explain The Fact That He Jumped Ahead Of 150 Applicants Despite Low Pilot Aptitude Scores?

~Col. Albert Lloyd Said A Report From Alabama To Ellington Should Have Been Filed. Where Is That Report?

~Why Did Bush Miss His Medical Exam In 1972?

~Where Are The Complete Results Of The Required Investigation Into Bush’s Absence From The Exam?

~Why Did Bush Specifically Request To NOT Be Sent Overseas For Duty?

~Why Does The White House Say Bush Was On Base When Bush’s Superiors Had Filed A Report Saying He Was Gone For A Whole Year?

~Why Is The Pentagon Under Orders To Not Discuss Bush’s Record With Reporters?

~Where Are Bush’s Flight Logs?

~Why Hasn’t Bush Himself Demonstrated That He Showed Up For Service in Alabama?

~Bush Has Said He Used No Special Treatment To Get Into The Guard. How Does He Explain The Fact That He Jumped Ahead Of 150 Applicants Despite Low Pilot Aptitude Scores?

“There was no special treatment.”
--Then-Gov. George W. Bush


FACT: With Family Connection, Bush Got Coveted Slot in Texas Guard Shortly After Graduating from College.

A family friend of Bush’s father pulled strings to secure Bush’s spot; Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard after his student deferment ran out when he graduated from Yale in 1968. Before he graduated, Bush personally visited Col. Walter “Buck” Staudt -- the commander of the Texas Air National Guard -- to talk about the Guard. After Bush met with Staudt, he applied and was quickly accepted -- despite a waiting list of over 150 applicants. Staudt recommended Bush for a direct appointment, which allowed Bush to become a second lieutenant right out of basic training without having to go though officer candidate school. The direct appointment also cleared the way for a position in pilot training school.


FACT: Bush Scored in 25th Percentile on Pilot Aptitude Test. When Bush applied for the Guard, his score on the Air Force pilot aptitude section, one of five on the test, was in the 25th percentile, the lowest allowed for would-be fliers.


FACT: No Shortage of Pilots in Texas Guard. Although a Bush spokesman claimed Bush was fast-tracked because the Guard needed pilots, Charles C. Shoemake, a chief of personnel in the Texas Guard from 1972 to 1980 remembered no such shortage. “We had so many people coming in who were super-qualified,” Shoemake said. Texas Guard Historian Tom Hail said there was no apparent need to fast-track applicants. “I’ve never heard of that,” he said. “Generally they did that for doctors only, mostly because we needed extra flight surgeons.” Col. Albert Lloyd Said A Report From Alabama To Ellington Should Have Been Filed. Where Is That Report?


FACT: Col. Lloyd: Guard Records Should Include Evidence Of Alabama Service. Lloyd also said he did not know whether Bush performed duty in Alabama. “If he did, his drill attendance should have been certified and sent to Ellington, and there would have been a record.”


FACT: White House’s Own Expert Said Bush Should Have Done More. According to the Globe, “the White House included with the documents a memorandum from a Texas Air National Guard personnel specialist stating that the documents prove that Bush had a ‘satisfactory year’ for ‘retirement/retention’ purposes between May 27, 1972, and May 26, 1973. But that specialist, retired Lieutenant Colonel Albert C. Lloyd Jr., acknowledged in an interview last night that he evaluated Bush using the lower of two measures for rating Guard service. Guardsmen, he said, needed to serve more days to meet minimum-training requirements than to meet the lower threshold to receive retirement credit for the year. ‘Should he have done more? Yes, he should have,’ Lloyd said of Bush, who was a fighter-interceptor pilot. ‘Did he have to? No.’” Why Did Bush Miss His Medical Exam In 1972?


FACT: Bush Was Suspended From Flight Duty For Failing To Take Mandated Medical Exam.

On September 29, 1972, Bush was officially suspended from flying for missing his annual medical examination. The orders note that Bush’s suspension is authorized under the guidelines presented in Air Force Manual 35-12 Para 2-29m, which reads that Bush’s local commander “will direct an investigation as to why the individual failed to accomplish the medical examination.” Where Are The Complete Results Of The Required Investigation Into Bush’s Absence From The Exam?


FACT: The order suspending Bush from flight duty stated: “Verbal orders of the Comdr on 1 Aug 72 suspending 1STLT George W. Bush…from flying status are confirmed…Reason for Suspension: Failure to accomplish annual medical examination. Off will comply with para 2-10, AFM 35-13. Authority: Para 2-29m, AFM 35-13.

Para 2-29m, AFM 35-13: “When a Rated Officer Fails To Accomplish a Medical Examination Prescribed by AFM 160-1…(1)The local commander who has authority to convene a Flying Evaluation Board will direct an investigation as to why the individual failed to accomplish the medical examination. After reviewing the findings of the investigation, the local commander may convene a Flying Evaluation Board or forward through command channels a detailed report of the circumstances which resulted in the officer’s failure to accomplish a medical examination, along with a recommendation that the suspension be removed. (2) The individual’s major command will forward the report along with the command recommendation to USAFMPC/DPMAJD, Randolph AFB TX 78148 for final determination.” Why Did Bush Specifically Request NOT To Be Sent Overseas For Duty?

FACT: Bush’s Application Indicated Bush Did Not Volunteer for Overseas Duty. On Bush’s application to the 147th Fighter Group at Ellington Air Force Base in Texas, Bush was asked what his “Area Assignment Preferences” were. Bush checked the box beside “Do Not Volunteer” for overseas duty. Why Does The White House Say Bush Was On Base When Bush’s Superiors Had Filed A Report Saying He Was Gone For A Whole Year?


FACT: Bush’s Superiors Were Unable to Evaluate Him for a Full Year, Saying he “Has Not Been Observed at This Unit…”
May 2, 1973: Bush’s superior officers William D. Harris Jr. and Jerry B. Killian, wrote on his yearly evaluation form, “Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of report,” and that a “civilian occupation made it necessary for him to move to Montgomery, Alabama. He cleared this base on 15 May 1972 and has been performing equivalent training in a non flying status with the 187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama.”

…But the White House Claims Bush was on Base the Same Day Superiors Filed Report.
White House release says Bush was paid on May 2, 1973, the very day his superiors reported that “Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of report.” <2nd Q 1973 pay record>


FACT: Bush’s Superior Officer Says He Would Have Known If Bush Had Reported for Duty.
November 12, 1973: Rufus G. Martin signed a report on Bush’s evaluation, saying Bush was “Not rated for the period 1 May 72 through 30 April 73.”

Boston Globe: “But retired colonel Martin, the unit's former administrative officer, said he too thought Bush had been in Alabama for that entire year. Harris and Killian, he said, would have known if Bush returned to duty at Ellington.”


Why Is The Pentagon Under Orders Not To Discuss Bush’s Record With Reporters?

FACT: Freedom of Information Officers Under Orders From Senior Pentagon Officials To Ignore Requests on Bush Files. According to the Spokane Spokesman-Review, “at the National Guard Bureau, now headed by a Bush appointee from Texas, officials last week said they were under orders not to answer questions. The bureau's chief historian said he couldn't discuss questions about Bush's military service on orders from the Pentagon.

‘If it has to do with George W. Bush, the Texas Air National Guard or the Vietnam War, I can't talk with you,’ said Charles Gross, chief historian for the National Guard Bureau in Washington, D.C. Rose Bird, Freedom of Information Act officer for the bureau, said her office stopped taking records requests on Bush's military service in mid-February and is directing all inquiries to the Pentagon. She would not provide a reason. Air Force and Texas Air National Guard officials did not respond to written questions about the issue. James Hogan, a records coordinator at the Pentagon, said senior Defense Department officials had directed the National Guard Bureau not to respond to questions about Bush's military records.”



DIDN'T SEE THIS ONE IN THE MEDIA DID YOU? IS THAT REALLY KERRY'S FAULT?

[DistressedAmerican]

29. BUSH, BUSH, BUSH.

Where are the links for his responses to the Swifties. This does not qualify.

[bigtree]

35. it qualifies for me

I didn't think, and still don't think he needed to be misled by the Swifties into constantly responding directly to their lies. This is a much more effective response. You want to see defense. THIS IS OFFENSE!

[ProSense]

41. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. n/t

[DistressedAmerican]

43. How, How, How?

[ProSense]

49. See post 38 n/t

[bigtree]

17. Remember this?

John Kerry offered this about the president's enlistment in the Coast Guard during Vietnam:

“People made their choices:

Some went to Canada;
Some went to Jail;
Some went to the National Guard.

[DistressedAmerican]

32. Another Attack On Bush. Were Did He Go After The Swifties?

That is the point of this whole thread. I will be happy to retract my comments if someone can show a forceful pushing back against the smear mongers. So far I have seen a lot of links but, nonw that address what the OP is talking about, fighting swifties.

[bigtree]

39. I don't see where a back and forth between our distinguished candidate

a pack of liars would have accomplished anything of value. You wanted our candidate on the defensive. This is offense. To deny that this is an effective response to the Bush sponsored attacks is amazing.

[DistressedAmerican]

46. He Should Have Sued Them For Defamation And Handed It To The Lawyers.

forcefully denying a lie is the best way to refute the lie. IMO, ignoring them and letting them continue to spew lost him the election.

[rockymountaindem]

186. How was the Bush campaign different from the Swifties?

I mean, they were both trying to defeat Kerry and elect Bush, and Bush never condemned the Swifties' ads. Remember that NYT flow chart of how they were all connected?

Attacking the Bush campaign was the same thing as attacking the Swifties. What part of that don't you understand?

[ProSense]

228. Guess they missed these

Bush adviser quits after appearing in swift boat ad
Kerry has accused group of illegally working with campaign
Monday, August 23, 2004 Posted: 10:49 AM EDT (1449 GMT)
ROANOKE, Virginia (CNN) -- A volunteer adviser has quit President Bush's re-election campaign after appearing in a veterans group's television commercial blasting Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's involvement in the Vietnam-era antiwar movement.

A Bush campaign statement said it did not know that retired Air Force Col. Ken Cordier had appeared in an ad by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. The Kerry campaign has accused the group of illegally working with the Bush campaign.

As a so-called 527 group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is barred from coordinating efforts with an election campaign.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/21/edwards.swiftboat/



Bush lawyer who aided boat-ad group resigns
Zachary Coile, Chronicle Washington Bureau

Thursday, August 26, 2004

Washington -- President Bush's top election lawyer resigned from the campaign Wednesday after it was revealed that he also was advising Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group airing TV ads attacking John Kerry's war record and anti- war activism.

In a resignation letter, Benjamin Ginsberg, the top outside counsel for the Bush campaign, said his dual role violated no campaign laws, and he accused the media of a "stunning double standard" for not focusing on lawyers and advisers to Kerry and the Democratic Party who are working for outside groups attacking Bush.

Independent election-law experts said Ginsberg could have violated new rules that bar individuals with a federal campaign or a political party from working with outside groups, known as 527s, if he shared information between the groups. Ginsberg has denied that he shared any information.

Democrats already have filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission alleging illegal coordination between the Bush campaign and the veterans group. But Bush's aides repeatedly have said they had no connection to the group.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/08/26/MNG088EKHC1.DTL

[karynnj]

63. This is a very honest answer and it was not the only answer

First Bush was in the Texas Air National Guard, not the coast guard. Kerry would be being very untrue to his (complicated) views on the Vietnam War to say that the only honorable thing to do was to fight in Vietnam. He has never said that - likely because he doesn't believe it.

What was dishonorable in Bush's case was that he SUPPORTED the war AND avoided it, then he probably didn't fullfill his committments. Also, once Kerry had applied to be a naval officer in (I think) early 1965 and found he could not defer it beyond when he graduated in 1966 - he honorably entered the Navy and served. If he were a few years younger, he may very well have applied directly to law school (getting a deferment) or used the contacts he had to get a government job (also with a deferment). The difference would have been he would have legally avoided fighting in a war he was against. In 1965, he and some of his friends were persuaded by former Kennedy administration officials that they should enlist. By the May 1966, his speech at graduation was against the war.

Were all the 1960s people who were anti-war and found legitimate ways around it doing something wrong? Also, aren't we a large part of Kerry's base.

[ProSense]

38. Here

May 4, 2004. The Kerry campaign held a press conference directly after the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" event. (Above are, r-l, Wade Sanders, Del Sandusky and Drew Whitlow). Senior Advisor Michael Meehan said, "The Nixon White House attempted to do this to Kerry, and the Bush folks are following the same plan." "We're not going to let them make false claims about Kerry and go unanswered," Meehan said. He said his first instinct was to hold a press conference with an empty room where veterans could testify to their time spent in the military with George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

The campaign provided an information package which raised significant questions about "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth." Spaeth Communications, which hosted the event, "is a Republican headed firm from Texas which has contributed to Bush's campaign and has very close ties to the Bush Administration." Lead organizer John O'Neill, a Republican from Texas, "was a pawn of the Nixon White House in 1971." Further some of the people now speaking against Kerry had praised him in their evaluation reports in Vietnam.

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/interestg/swift050404c.html


Kerry campaign's quick response to Swift boat vets
By Marie Horrigan
UPI Deputy Americas Editor
Washington, DC, Aug. 5 (UPI) -- The campaign for Democratic Party presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts issued an exhaustively researched and extensively sourced 36-page refutation Thursday of allegations Kerry lied about events during his service in Vietnam, including how and why he received medals, and had fled the scene of a battle.

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040805-012143-5349r.htm



Kerry: Bush lets attack ads do 'dirty work'
McClellan points out criticism by anti-Bush group
Friday, August 20, 2004 Posted: 2:37 PM EDT (1837 GMT)
BOSTON, Massachusetts (CNN) -- Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry accused President Bush on Thursday of letting front groups "do his dirty work" in questioning his military service during the Vietnam War.

"The president keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that," Kerry told a firefighters' union conference in his hometown of Boston.

"Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: Bring it on."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/19/kerry.attackads/



http://www.johnkerry.com/petition/oldtricks.php


On Aug. 19, 2004 Kerry himself responded directly in a speech to the International Association of Firefighters' Convention in Boston. (from prepared remarks)


...And more than thirty years ago, I learned an important lesson—when you're under attack, the best thing to do is turn your boat into the attacker. That's what I intend to do today.
Over the last week or so, a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has been attacking me. Of course, this group isn’t interested in the truth – and they're not telling the truth. They didn't even exist until I won the nomination for president.

But here's what you really need to know about them. They're funded by hundreds of thousands of dollars from a Republican contributor out of Texas. They're a front for the Bush campaign. And the fact that the President won't denounce what they’re up to tells you everything you need to know—he wants them to do his dirty work.

Thirty years ago, official Navy reports documented my service in Vietnam and awarded me the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts. Thirty years ago, this was the plain truth. It still is. And I still carry the shrapnel in my leg from a wound in Vietnam.

As firefighters you risk your lives everyday. You know what it’s like to see the truth in the moment. You're proud of what you’ve done—and so am I.

Of course, the President keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: "Bring it on."

I'm not going to let anyone question my commitment to defending America—then, now, or ever. And I'm not going to let anyone attack the sacrifice and courage of the men who saw battle with me.

And let me make this commitment today: their lies about my record will not stop me from fighting for jobs, health care, and our security – the issues that really matter to the American people...

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/ads04/swiftadresponse.html




August 5, 2004


VIA FACSIMILE

Re: Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

Dear Station Manager:

We are counsel to the Democratic National Committee and John Kerry, respectively. It has been brought to our attention that a group calling itself "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" has bought time, or may seek to buy time, on your station to air an advertisement that attacks Senator Kerry. The advertisement contains statements by men who purport to have served on Senator Kerry's SWIFT Boat in Vietnam, and one statement by a man pretending to be the doctor who treated Senator Kerry for one of his injuries. In fact, not a single one of the men who pretend to have served with Senator Kerry was actually a crewmate of Senator Kerry's and the man pretending to be his doctor was not. The entire advertisement, therefore is an inflammatory, outrageous lie.

"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" styles itself as a group of individuals who personally served with John Kerry in the United States Navy in the Vietnam War. In truth the group is a sham organization spearheaded by a Texas corporate media consultant. It has been financed largely with funds from a Houston homebuilder. See Slater, Dallas Morning News, July 23, 2004.

In this group's advertisement, twelve men appear to make statements about Senator Kerry's service in Vietnam. Not a single one of these men served on either of Senator Kerry's two SWIFT Boats (PCF 44 & PCF94).

Further, the "doctor" who appears in the ad, Louis Letson, was not a crewmate of Senator Kerry's and was not the doctor who actually signed Senator Kerry's sick call sheet. In fact, another physician actually signed Senator Kerry's sick call sheet. Letson is not listed on any document as having treated Senator Kerry after the December 2, 1968 firefight. Moreover, according to news accounts, Letson did not record his "memories" of that incident until after Senator Kerry became a candidate for President in 2003. (National Review Online, May 4, 2004).

The statements made by the phony "crewmates" and "doctor" who appear in the advertisement are also totally, demonstrably and unequivocally false, and libelous. In parrticular, the advertisement charges that Senator Kerry "lied to get his Bronze Star." Just as falsely, it states that "he lied before the Senate." These are serious allegations of actual crimes -- specifically, of lying to the United States Government in the conduct of its official business. The events for which the Senator was awarded the Bronze Star have been documented repeatedly and in detail and are set out in the official citation signed by the Secretary of the Navy and the Commander of U.S. Forces in Vietnam. And yet these reckless charges of criminal conduct are offered without support or authentication, by fake "witnesses" speaking on behalf of a phony organization.

Your station is not obligated to accept this advertisement for broadcast nor is it required to account in any way for its decision to reject such an advertisement. Columbia Broadcasting System v. Democratic National Committee, 412 U.S. 94 (1973), You Can't Afford Dodd Committee, 81 FCC2d 579 (1980). The so-called "Swift Boat Veterans" organization is not a federal candidate or candidate committee. Repeated efforts by organizations that are not candidate committees to obtain a private right of access have been consistently rejected by the FCC. See e.g., National Conservative Political Action Committee, 89 FCC2d 626 (1982).

Thus, your station my freely refuse this advertisement. Because your station has this freedom, and because it is not a "use" of your facilities by a clearly identified candidate, your station is responsible for the false and libelous charges made by this sponsor.

Moreover, as a licensee, you have an overriding duty "to protect the public from false, misleading or deceptive advertising." Licensee Responsibility With Respect to the Broadcast of False, Misleading or Deceptive Advertising, 74 F.C.D.2d 623 (1961). Your station normally must take "reasonable steps" to satisfy itself "as to the reliability and reputation of every prospective advertiser." In re Complaint by Consumers Assocation of District of Columbia, 32 F.C.C.2d 400, 405 (1971).

Under these circumstances, your station may not responsibly air this advertisement. We request that your station act immmediately to prevent broadcasts of this advertisement and deny andy future sale of time. Knowing that the advertisement is false, and possessing the legal authority to refuse to run it, your station should exercise that authority in the public interest.


Please contact us promptly at either of the phone numbers below to advise us regarding the status of this advertisement.

Sincerely yours,
Marc Elias
Perkins Coie
607 14th Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005


General Counsel
Kerry-Edwards 2004 Joseph Sandler
Sandler, Reiff & Young
50 E Street, S.E. #300
Washington, D.C. 20003


General Counsel
Democratic National Committee


Some Responses to the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" Ad
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ran its initial ad, the :60 TV spot "Any Questions," starting August 5, 2004 in select markets in OH, WV and WI. O'Neill and Corsi's book Unfit for Command (Regnery) came out in the second week of August. On August 20 the Swift Boat Veterans announced a second ad "Sell Out."

The Kerry campaign was seen as too slow, and many observers said inept, in responding to the Swift Boat charges and they dominated discussion for much of August. Democrats called on President Bush to specifically repudiate the "smear" ad, but he would only repudiate the 527 ads generally. Democrats also sought to show a "web of connections" between the Swift Boat group and the Bush campaign and associates.



The DNC in an Aug. 5, 2004 posting on its Kicking Ass blog ("Swift Boat Veterans for Trash") described "Any Questions" as a "negative smear ad." According to Kicking Ass, "Not a single veteran in the ad served on a Swift Boat with John Kerry. Not a word of the ad is true." The blog also cited Sen. John McCain's (R-AZ) description of the ad as "dishonest and dishonorable."

* * *




On Aug. 5, 2004 the General Counsels to the DNC and the Kerry-Edwards 2004 campaign faxed a letter to station managers at the relevant stations stating that the ad is "an inflammatory, outrageous lie" and requesting that they "act immediately to prevent broadcast of this advertisement and deny any future sale of time."



* * *

From the transcript of the Aug. 5, 2004 White House Press Briefing with Scott McClellan:

Q Do you -- does the President repudiate this 527 ad that calls Kerry a liar on Vietnam?

MR. McCLELLAN: The President deplores all the unregulated soft money activity. We have been very clear in stating that, you know, we will not -- and we have not and we will not question Senator Kerry's service in Vietnam. I think that this is another example of the problem with the unregulated soft money activity that is going on. The President thought he put an end -- or the President thought he got rid of this kind of unregulated soft money when he signed the bipartisan campaign finance reforms into law. And, you know, the President has been on the receiving end of more than $62 million in negative attacks from shadowy groups.

* * *



In the days after the release of the ad a host of major newspapers published editorials condemning it including the Arizona Republic ("Campaign Non-Starter," August 6), Los Angeles Times ("It's Not All Fair Game," August 6), Plain Dealer ("Ad Says Kerry Lied; Record Says Otherwise," August 8), St. Petersburg Times ("An Ugly Attack," August 9), Las Vegas Sun ("Ad's Smear Should Be Condemned," August 9), Oregonian ("Now It Gets Nasty," August 11), and Washington Post ("Swift Boat Smears," August 12).



* * *


On Aug. 10, 2004 Democracy 21, the Campaign Legal Center and the Center for Responsive Politics filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission (FEC) charging that Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is illegally raising and spending soft money on ads to influence the 2004 presidential elections.


* * *



From the transcript of Bush's Aug. 12, 2004 appearance on CNN'S Larry King Live:


KING: In view of that, do you think that it's fair, for the record, John Kerry's service record, to be an issue at all? I know that Senator McCain...
G. BUSH: You know, I think it is an issue, because he views it as honorable service, and so do I. I mean...
KING: Oh, so it is. But, I mean, Senator McCain has asked to be condemned, the attack on his service. What do you say to that?
G. BUSH: Well, I say they ought to get rid of all those 527s, independent expenditures that have flooded the airwaves.
There have been millions of dollars spent up until this point in time. I signed a law that I thought would get rid of
those, and I called on the senator to -- let's just get anybody who feels like they got to run to not do so.
KING: Do you condemn the statements made about his...
G. BUSH: Well, I haven't seen the ad, but what I do condemn is these unregulated, soft-money expenditures by very wealthy people, and they've said some bad things about me. I guess they're saying bad things about him. And what I think we ought to do is not have them on the air. I think there ought to be full disclosure. The campaign funding law I signed I thought was going to get rid of that. But evidently the Federal Election Commission had a different view...

Kerry spokesman Chad Clanton's response to Bush's Aug. 12, 2004 appearance:
"Tonight President Bush called Kerry's service in Vietnam 'noble.' But in the same breath refused to heed Senator McCain's call to condemn the dirty work being done by the 'Swift Boat Vets for Bush.' Once again, the President side-stepped responsibility and refused to do the right thing. His credibility is running out as fast as his time in the White House."



* * *



MoveOn PAC weighed in with the ad "Swift Response."



* * *



On Aug. 17, 2004 the campaign held a press conference at which Gen. Wesley Clark (ret.), Adm. Stansfield Turner (ret.), and several swift boat veterans rebutted the charges.




* * *


DNC Chairman Terry McAuliffe issued a statement on Aug. 18, 2004:

"By saying nothing at all George W. Bush is a complicit contributor to the slanderous, lie-filled attack ads that have been launched on John Kerry on Bush's behalf. Instead of stepping up and taking the high road, George Bush's response has been evasion, avoidance, everything but disavowal.

"Larry King asked George Bush to 'condemn' it. He refused. Reporters asked the President's Press Secretary if he'd 'repudiate' it. He ducked. They can try to blame it on the rules or whoever else they want, but the blame belongs squarely on the Republicans. They wrote it. They produced it. They placed it. They paid for it. And now it is time for George W. Bush to stand up and say, 'enough.'

"This is not debate, Mr. President, and this unfounded attack on Senator Kerry has crossed the line of decency. I call on you today to condemn this ad, the men who put their lies behind it, and the donors who paid for it. It's time."



* * *


On Aug. 19, 2004 Kerry himself responded directly in a speech to the International Association of Firefighters' Convention in Boston. (from prepared remarks)


...And more than thirty years ago, I learned an important lesson—when you're under attack, the best thing to do is turn your boat into the attacker. That's what I intend to do today.
Over the last week or so, a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has been attacking me. Of course, this group isn’t interested in the truth – and they're not telling the truth. They didn't even exist until I won the nomination for president.

But here's what you really need to know about them. They're funded by hundreds of thousands of dollars from a Republican contributor out of Texas. They're a front for the Bush campaign. And the fact that the President won't denounce what they’re up to tells you everything you need to know—he wants them to do his dirty work.

Thirty years ago, official Navy reports documented my service in Vietnam and awarded me the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts. Thirty years ago, this was the plain truth. It still is. And I still carry the shrapnel in my leg from a wound in Vietnam.

As firefighters you risk your lives everyday. You know what it’s like to see the truth in the moment. You're proud of what you’ve done—and so am I.

Of course, the President keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: "Bring it on."

I'm not going to let anyone question my commitment to defending America—then, now, or ever. And I'm not going to let anyone attack the sacrifice and courage of the men who saw battle with me.

And let me make this commitment today: their lies about my record will not stop me from fighting for jobs, health care, and our security – the issues that really matter to the American people...





* * *


Also on Aug. 19, 2004 the campaign announced its own ad "Rassmann."




* * *


On Aug. 22, 2004 the campaign announced another ad "Issues" which addressed the Swift Boat group's attacks.



* * *


The Kerry-Edwards campaign generated some media attention on Aug. 25, 2004 when it dispatched former Sen. Max Cleland and Jim Rassmann, whose life Kerry saved in Vietnam, to Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas to deliver to the President a letter signed by Democratic Senators who are veterans. The Senators asked Bush to "recognize this blatant attempt at character assassination, and publicly condemn it." They did not get through. The Bush-Cheney campaign responded with a letter of its own in which veterans expressed concern about Kerry's activities upon his return from Vietnam.






* * *



Kerry-Edwards campaign manager Beth Cahill sent a letter to Bush-Cheney campaign manager Ken Mehlman on Aug. 26, 2004 asking him to explain the "web of connections."





* * *





The DNC ran a full page ad in the Aug. 27, 2004 New York Times terming the Swift Boat campaign a smear.


* * *




http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/ads04/dem080504ltrswift.html

[bigtree]

40. thanks. now I can go back to the real world

[karynnj]

69. Great work - your details really show what a lie that comment is

[blm]

113. It appears that the detractors don't want to see the FACTS that get in the

way of their false charges.

BTW...you should post this in a thread of its own.

I would suggest that you ask DUers to review the FACTS before they contribute to the furthering of antiKerry mediaspin.

Maybe some of them just truly can't remember or were too busy to pay attention back then. The broadcast media didn't exactly discuss the articles defending Kerry and certainly never showed Kerry's speech to the firefighters where he spoke to this issue.

[Laurab]

218. I think you're right...they never have

nor do they ever have an answer when they're asked if he should have run around like a crazed lunatic, yelling "I was robbed, I was robbed", without any hard evidence to back it up.

In fact, it often appears to me that the Kerry detractors, for the most part, just want to do what they do best, which is to attack, insult (often using RW talking points), and basically just trash the guy. And they don't seem to miss a thread.

I've grown tired of responding with questions or facts, which go unanswered, but I'm glad some people are still up to the task. Sometimes I think we should just let the bashers enjoy themselves, bash amongst themselves, with no argument - it would probably get boring, and maybe they'd move on to something more productive. I really don't think facts or reasonable responses are going to change any minds.

[FreedomAngel82]

82. This probably doesn't mean much to you

and others like you but last December I remember reading an article with his ex-wife Julia. She was talking about the campaign and how she and Kerry still talked off and on. According to her she said Kerry wanted to go after the SBVT guys but the DNC (remember under McAullife at the time) wouldn't let him. And remember the DNC (under McAullife) wanted to keep things positive and no attacks. Remember, even Al Sharpton had to go away from the speech he gave the DNC.

[ProSense]

12. Great list! Thanks for posting. n/t

[oasis]

21. Wow!

:wow:

[butterfly77]

111. Big tree one question...

Are you one of Kerrys' relatives? He didn't fight back all through the campaign. Don't run Kerry!

[blm]

114. There are posts on this thread proving your claim is false. #38 for one

Please don't further rw mediaspin.

[bigtree]

127. I am a proud American who loves our country's land and people

I am extremely proud of the campaign John ran against the sitting 'war' president. I witnessed the fights. I documented them here throughout the campaign. I provided a list of instances where Kerry fought. Why don't you start at the top of the list and tell me why you think each instance I provided didn't represent John fighting back.

[donheld]

151. Bigtree, You've done some very admirable work here

It's really easy for shade tree campaigners to second guess what Kerry or anybody else shoulda, woulda, coulda done. Thank you for sharing all these points with us.

[Jayhawk Lib]

180. Best candidate

Kerry would have won if he and his handlers would have just forgot about the Vietnam war. When he came to the podium for his acceptance speech and said "reporting for duty" he was toast.

The republicans tried to make it an issue with Clinton and it failed badly. The democrats tried to make it an issue with Bush and that fail badly.

It is a shame because Kerry was by far the best candidate.

[CTyankee]

184. Hindsight. C'mon. Vietnam was Kerry's big ticket against Bush

He could, and he should, have used it. But he didn't follow through. AND he seemed to falter in releasing his military records, altho once he did (after the election) it just vindicated everything he said. You know why he didn't release all of them earlier? It was his GRADES AT YALE (which were lumped in with his military records)! He had more Ds in his freshman year than Bush. Dear god. I know this sounds stupid to the rest of the country, but I was married to an Ivy Leaguer and man, do they take this stuff seriously! When the truth came out about his records, of course, the story was all about the grades at Yale (ya, ya, ya). The REAL story was that the Swift Boat Liars lied, Kerry was truthful but his vanity about his freshman grades at Yale prevailed over his good sense. Ivy League insanity once again!

[ProSense]

185. I'm glad you hold Bush in such high regard

I personally don't think for a second that Bush achieved his academic record on his own. Kerry's vanity? He never brought up the issue.

Everyone, with any sense, knows Kerry has more sense than Bush.

[CTyankee]

236. Huh? You got me wrong

Go back and look up that story. It was all about how Kerry had one more D than Bush did in their respective freshmen years. The repukes had a field day with the story, with the help of the media. The issue wasn't, and isn't, whether Bush got any grade honestly. He probably didn't. The issue is that Kerry seemed reluctant to release ALL of his records during the campaign, even tho he knew the military records were as he said they were. But the grades were mixed in with that report and Kerry knew that. I can only deduce that that is the reason he didn't just have the whole shebang released at once during the campaign. It would only have been a minor embarrassment at worst. Also, the records vindicated Kerry as opposed to the Swift Boat Liars.

[ProSense]

238. Again, the media raised the issue about grades.

Why would anyone make it a priority to pull out their college transcript for a campaign?

Kerry did release his military records. The volumes are out there on Kerry's service to refute the SBVT claims, but the media responded to every move of the nefarious SBVT group (whose connection to Bush was exposed by the Kerry campaign, not the media). The media kept asking for more of Kerry's records. On the other hand, no request for clarity on Bush's record, from all the legitimate groups, spurred the media to demand Bush release complete records. The media didn't seem much interested in producing a factual account of Bush's service. In fact, the only group of news people who attempted to do so got fired. And the facts brought to light dropped in the trash.

[CTyankee]

242. I agree with your first statement

but in response, let me just say "Look what happened." A big deal has been made here at DU about Kerry's handling of the Swift Boats Liars. Here is an instance whereby Kerry's holding back the full release became the story, not the vindicating records he did release. And that was sad and unnecessary.

As for Bush's records, that is a huge scandal. I read Mary Mapes book. If you want to get mad and depressed all over again read that book!

[ProSense]

244. Yes, but here again it's because people are ignoring the facts. n/t

[CTyankee]

246. I hope there will be a book about the Swift Boaties

Somebody out there must be working on one. I see various news items about individual Swifties here and there but no coherent story about how this came about and who was behind it.

I really think the press just doesn't give a shit. The big scandal here is they let a decorated, honorable veteran who was wounded in Vietnam be smeared by people supporting an AWOL draft dodger who drank, doped and skipped out on every obligation he ever had. I tell you I would like to get the Wolf Blitzer's, the Cokie Roberts's, the Charlie Gibson's, etc. in a room some place and grill them til they cried. I was at a luncheon that Cokie spoke at during the campaign and I didn't approach her. Boy, if that were the case today I would totally confront the woman. I'm getting very obnoxious in my retirement and I plan to be more so!

[karynnj]

197. He HAD the same records on his web site - I think it was

around 140 pages - which clearly covered the time period and the types of records that should have been there - per people who knew what records were suppose to be there.

I assume his reason was the one he said - the records were there and he wasn't going to open things up to the navy with a BUSH SECRETARY OF THE NAVY to put out something bad.

[CTyankee]

237. When the grades stuff came out it was mentioned

that the records revealed exactly what Kerry had posted on his web site. The issue was that he didn't release ALL of them. And that, dear children, is a big no no when you are dealing with the Swift Boaties. They could point to that and whisper "But he didn't relase ALL of them. What is he hiding?" Better to get the damn D's out there, say he was a kid of 17 and hadn't quite settled down and then point to his really good grades and academic career from then on.

I realize this is hindsight on my part, but it does teach a lesson for candidates in the future. A D on a freshman grade at Yale isn't like revealing you were busted for drugs or fathered an illegitimate child or had an affair that broke up a marriage.

[ProSense]

240. His military records.

You're mixing up the two. There were volumes about his military record, not his grades.

[CTyankee]

241. His grades were in the military records

probably as a result of his being considered for officers' training and they needed his academic record. I think it was in his Form 180. Most of the military records had already been released during the campaign but to release everything would have included the grades, which is why I am guessing Kerry didn't release the whole thing during the campaign and have done with it. But the grades story hit all the papers briefly. Our local paper, The New Haven Register, covered it (incorrectly) in an editorial. AFter all, it was about Yale and local stuff gets covered. Anyway, I sent a LTTE about the fact that Kerry HAD released the military records and the REAL story was that by releasing this report the Swift Boat Liars were totally discredited, but too late (it was last summer). I pointed out in my letter (which was published): "As for the comparison of the two men's grades at Yale, anyone who watched the three presidential debates last fall would know which candidate made the better use of his Yale education."

[babsbunny]

196. Kerry DID win!!!

Don't ever forget!

[BobRossi]

10. Kerry, certifiable shrub enabler. nt

[paulk]

132. certify it, then

let's hear it...

[rockymountaindem]

187. The silence is deafening

n/t

[rosesaylavee]

13. So do nothing if that is what you think works... NOT.

Kerry is at least trying to pave the way for the next candidate... support he didn't get at the time from other DEMS and obviously, shouldn't be asking for help from you.

Of course, when Clark or Feingold gets swiftboated, you'll be there to complain that no one is fighting back, right?

:eyes:

Why do we eat our own on this forum?

And for the record, as repeated here often, Kerry didn't "roll over". The numbers at the time didn't support a fight - he does have a court case pending in Ohio that will hopefully resolve this spring.

[CornField]

16. Why does "roll over" always equate to the election?

While I personally think it would apply there as well, for this particular post, I was using it in relation to the Not So Swift Vets.

[rosesaylavee]

33. I don't have links to support this but will try to find them if you wish

but what I remember at the time is that there was plenty of information available that O'Neill had done this before in the 70s, that he was originally a pawn of Nixon from when Kerry was speaking the truth about Nam, and that the others who served with Kerry spoke out often about the mistruths being spread about him.

Was their speaking out about this pack of lies enough? Obviously not given the excellent vision of hindsight and the massive stupidity of the general public.

Can we better control the media this time round so the Swifties don't win? Hope so because they have apparently won over many here on DU. That is why this fund is important... hopefully the media can still be bought by the DEMs.

And you're right, I over-reacted about the 'roll-over' phrase. It's now become a kneejerk reaction on my part whenever I hear that and Kerry's name in the same sentence - it kind of sends me off. Sorry about that.

[FreedomAngel82]

83. The deal with O'Neill

was in the Kerry movie. You could hear the audio tape of Nixon talking about Kerry and the other vets. How he tried to find anything to smear Kerry with but there was nothing he could use so he "created" O'Neill and a handful of guys to go up against thousands of angry vets such as Kerry and the guys at Vietnam vets against the war. The perfect ad would've been just having the audio clip of Nixon talking about this and than showing how he "created" O'Neill and the whole deal. I would've done that. Than at the end show Kerry's testimony (the famous part).

[rosesaylavee]

88. That's right. Wasn't it elsewhere too?

[FreedomAngel82]

93. Probably

I don't remember where though but it wouldn't surprise me. :shrug:

[global1]

20. The Banter Going Back And Forth In This Thread Is Exactly What....

the Repugs want to see happening to the Dems. Based on the back and forth here - I'm questioning if anything will change in '06. I mean in the Senate and House.

[seabeyond]

27. which leads me to ask, what serious person that wants to be effective

and get these people out, would turn their back on what our democrats are trying to do, in speaking out...... loudly.

there was no one backing kerry with swiftboat. america failed. kerry is not failing the others that will be swift boated. like he needed and didnt get.............. he gives to others

i feel like in a world of children right now with this attitude

[acmejack]

30. Thank gawd we have you to straighten us out!

It must be my lying eyes again...

[FreedomAngel82]

85. Yes

And as a canidate for something you do have to go by polls to see how things will work out for you and as someone else posted attacking them would've obviously (by the polls) made things worse. I'm glad Kerry is helping other people attack back and raising money for them. He's obviously learned from his mistakes in his campaign and that's good. He can use his information for other people who are in similiar circumstances.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CornField]

28. Wow

If you'd put those expletives in with some complete sentences, maybe I could understand your post.

[DistressedAmerican]

34. Right!

[meganmonkey]

26. I am so glad that you made it quite clear

that you will be supporting Democratic candidates.

Yet several replies indicate that no one read that far into your post.

Great job with reading comprehension everyone! :eyes:

(Cornfield: Maybe next time you should keep your post to 2 sentences or less :P )

[tx_dem41]

37. Bash, bash, bash, bash!

How we love to bash Democrats on DU!!!!

Anyone notice an election is coming up?

:eyes:

[MrBenchley]

42. What I find funniest

is watching thread after thread of people bashing Democrats, announcing they're not going to support Democrats, etc...and then in the next breath the same people snivelling that Democrats don't give a rats ass about what they want.

[meganmonkey]

45. THe OP made it perfectly clear that she plans to support Democrats

Just not the particular one who sent her that email.

Do we need a rule that posts can only be 2 sentences long? Because it sure seems that people only read the first 2 sentences.

Geeeez!

[MrBenchley]

47. Considering you didn't even read the single one in mine

[meganmonkey]

51. Nice timing on the edit

Did you do that on purpose? It almost worked.

But to be precise, I was referring to your statement: "announcing they're not going to support Democrats"

Considering the OP said: "there are several in the Democratic Party much more deserving of my hard-earned funds" it is quite clear that the OP plans on supporting Democrats, just not this one in particular.

I am not sure why I bother engaging with you, I guess because it is so easy to debunk whatever reactionary comments you make. It's like warm-up for more challenging debates.

:)

[MrBenchley]

56. You're asking me

if I edited something by accident? Really?

"I guess because it is so easy to debunk whatever reactionary comments you make."
Feel free to start anytime. Because so far all you've done is looking amazingly silly.

[ProSense]

48. Maybe the OP should save getting so upset and unsubscribe.

Geeeez!

[FreedomAngel82]

98. Really

If you don't like a particular democrat why are you still on his/her mailing list? :shrug: It doesn't make sense. I don't like Bill Frist but I'm on his Email list since he is my senator and I'd like to keep an eye on him (kinda isn't hard to miss though being majority leader). If it wasn't for that I wouldn't be on his list.

[rosesaylavee]

50. I think the concern

by many here or at least by me is that I don't think the bashing is merited. Just my opinion. And of course Cf can have her opinion about the email she received.

I do find it interesting that Cf is receiving emails from the Kerry people - wonder why if she disagrees with how the campaign was run?

[karynnj]

77. And HER reading comprehension needs checking

beacuse Senator Kerry was not asking her to support him - but to support the 2006 candidates. His message that we need to guard against and work hard to prevent swift boating in 2006.

This is not new - in a different approach, when he came to Morristown, NJ in support of Corzine last September, he warned people that as the election went on we were likely to hear attacks on Corzine, because that is what Republicans do - and asked that we act as grass roots, learn the facts and talk to our neighbors and friends to get the truth out to counter whatever the charges would be. (At the risk of misstating his point: It seems he was saying that a large group of people, who care enough to find out the truth and take the initiative to speak to their friends, family, neighbors etc. could help keep a rumour/lie/smear from gaining strength. If you think of a rumour as a virus, this makes sense as you create a large number of people "immune" to the rumour.)

I think that Kerry, both because of his experience and because of his innate thoughtfulness will likely offer advice to future candidates.

[CornField]

52. See, here's the thing: I don't find any of this funny

I supported Kerry. I worked in his campaign office. I roused volunteers and walked door-to-door in the freezing cold on his behalf. (And, yup, my area went solidly for him.) I (and my whole family) attended rallies in three states, passed out information, worked the phones, volunteered our own long distance to his campaign and donated our own money to his cause (including his lawyer fund). I made graphics for local venues, took up speaking engagements, attended protests and did a myraid of other things.

Some here, however, think that I now have no right to question his motives nor his agenda. The truth is that it is me and all the others like me throughout the nation who are the ones who have the most right to question him and hold his feet to the fire. We were the ones who not only rode on the Kerry bandwagon but drove it down Main Street. If we now feel the need to get off the ride, who out there has the right to tell us we can't?

I support Democratic causes and candidates. I do my part. I just find it highly ironic when the man who wouldn't make a peep to his own campaign workers about the Swift Boat Vets -- who essentially left his own workers to fend for themselves on that issue in front of the public -- now wants to use it as an example of how he "fought back." It's also ironic that people here who don't want to lay blame on Kerry are willing to place it on his handlers and the rest of the Democratic Party (for not supporting & defending Kerry). From experience, it's difficult to support someone who is unable or unwilling to stand up and support himself.

But, please, go ahead and make me the heavy. Accuse me of 'destroying the whole party' by my own little solitary hands. Bash me for what you view as bashing. When push comes to shove, I wasn't the one on DU on election day watching the polls and the local news. I was the one with frostbite toes, rushing last-minute absentee ballots to the Auditor's office, banging on doors and working at the polls. Quite frankly, if many at DU would put an ounce of their message board passion to work in the real world, we wouldn't be the minority party.

[ClassWarrior]

53. Really? Then why do you use words like "big ole belly laugh" or "kidding?"

Just curious. In your OP, you seemed to find it all hysterical.

NGU.

[CornField]

57. I've also been known to tell jokes at funerals.

Some of us get through the most painful moments in life by laughing. And, when I read this email, it was either laugh or cry. I chose to laugh about it.

I'm sorry if no one else sees the humor in the irony. That fact, however, does not make my reaction wrong... just different.

[ClassWarrior]

59. I see no irony in the fact that Progressives help one another...

...and it makes me wonder why you do. We always claim we're smarter than the RW thugs - then why wouldn't we want to learn from our experience? Why is that idea so foreign to you?

NGU.

[CornField]

64. Working together?

Yes, we're back to that: No one supported Kerry and that's why he couldn't stand up to the Swift Boat Vets. He's the bigger man because he's willing to stand up for our next candidate in a way that no one did for him.

Two questions:

1) If someone attacked you publically -- took out television ads and even wrote a book which was an out-right lie -- would you sit around wringing your hands because no one else came to your defense or would you stand up and defend yourself immediately and forcefully?

2) This money isn't directed to the DNC or the DLC, but to Kerry's own coffers. What makes you think he plans to use it for anything other than his own political aspirations?

[ClassWarrior]

66. Okay, change the subject and avoid my questions. Enough said.

NGU.

[tx_dem41]

72. The answer to your first question is: He was wrong not to fight back...

the answer to your second question is: I don't know. Why don't you do some research?

Now, ask me a third question: 13 months after an election, would I post on a large public DEMOCRATIC board a post that derided and laughed at (and now cast ethical aspersions on) the last DEMOCRATIC nominee? Hell, no.

[blm]

105. 1) He did - networks didn't discuss the articles generated in his defense.

2)Because he always has used money to help other Dems, too - and as the co-author of the Clean Elections bill with Paul Wellstone and a 20 year advocate of public financing of campaigns, Kerry has earned the trust of those who do to choose to donate to his causes.

[rox63]

148. I believe the money is going to his PAC, Keeping America's Promise

Which is helping other Dems running in '06. Last I heard, the PAC had helped something like 80 different Dem candidates in various races around the country.

Edited to add link to his PAC site: http://www.keepingamericaspromise.com/candidates/

[CornField]

213. Yep, you're right. I stand corrected.

Sorry for not admitting my mistake earlier. I've been out birthday shopping with my daughter who turns 14 tomorrow. :)

I went back and read the email from Kerry -- I had stopped reading (due to the shock at the whole part I saw as ironic) and just went back and read the whole thing. The monies are being funneled into his PAC. I made an incorrect assumption it was going to him because the mail header was from him personally, not from the PAC.

My mistake. I apologize.

[karynnj]

199. Because by law he has to put out statements on

Money raised and money given out - and he has (as would be expected ) done this and it shows he has given out the money as he has said he did. He also has put in the links to give directly to some candidates.

[FreedomAngel82]

100. And than turn around and bash the person who knows

and has experience from it. Don't you want to learn from mistakes? Or do you want the rightwingers to win elections next year with or without voting machines? Not every area has voting machines.

[MrBenchley]

58. Things that make you go "Hmmmmmmm..."

[ProSense]

55. So is it productive to scream down every Democrat you don't support?

Still, you can unsubcribe. Supporters appreciate Kerry's e-mails.

Also see post 38, there were many responses.

[meganmonkey]

61. In defense of the OP, she didn't "screamdown" Kerry

She has a criticism of him.

Wouldn't it be more productive for you to talk about why we should support Kerry rather than focusing on the character or methods of the poster?

[ProSense]

65. Would you care to start a thread?

Title: Why should I support Kerry.

It would be a good way to collect all the productive responses.

Believe me I can give you plenty of reasons.

Also, the responses are constructive: pointing to Kerry's efforts and also suggesting that if the OP truly doesn't want to support Kerry, the OP should unsubscribe from the e-mail list.

[meganmonkey]

70. If you'll notice

I haven't made a statement regarding my feelings on Kerry in this thread. I am only commenting on the way people are reacting to the OP. The level of debate in this forum sometimes boggles my mind.

It is like people would rather argue than educate. they would rather alienate than change peoples' minds.

I don't get it.

[ProSense]

75. What don't you get? The responses are offering

links and opinion to counter the assertion in the OP (which by the OP's own admission was done out of frustration) that Kerry didn't respond.

That is how people debate---point and counterpoint.

[meganmonkey]

80. You're right,, some of them are

especially you. I saw your posts above with links and good exchanges andI think that is great. It's the ones like this that I am referring to:

Gee, I'm disappointed. I think I'll do nothing. Yeah, that's the ticket!
(which, btw, seems to ignore the comment by the OP that there are people worth donating to)

So do nothing if that is what you think works... NOT.

Bash, bash, bash, bash!
How we love to bash Democrats on DU!!!!

I feel I see more and more of it lately. And the worst part is I see myself getting sucked into it, my cynical and sarcastic side coming out, which I don't like either. It frustrates me. That's all.

[CornField]

81. ProSense, were you one of Kerry's campaign workers?

You can post links until your face turns blue. The fact of the matter is that those of us who were in the campaign offices know KERRY DIDN'T RESPOND TO THE SWIFT BOAT VETS. He didn't. He didn't mumble... he didn't flip-flop... he was simply inert 10-14 days. He left those of us on the ground for him with NOTHING.

Then, after he did decide to respond, the campaign did NOTHING to make those responses national because they believed the whole mess would just blow over (that any response from the Kerry camp would simply reignite the media fire around the Swift Boat Vets). It was 5-6 WEEKS later before they took it nationally because they finally realized the group's message had legs and it would not filter away on its own.

I'm not saying the SBV message was real or true. I'm not giving those creepy-crawlers any credibility. My beef is with Kerry: the fact that he didn't "fight back" and stand up for himself immediately and now he (and many of his supporters) want to place that blame on others within the party who didn't rush to Kerry's defense. Well, guess what? Those of us on the ground were told to ignore it and watch it go away. So, if Kerry wasn't going to fight and his campaign workers were told not to fight, why in the devil should anyone else stand up and give defense to Kerry?

So, let me point out the irony once again: A man who refused to fight when confronted with lies by the SBV is now using that very event to fundraise for a "fighting back" fund. And, as I said before, I believe there are many within the Democratic Party who are fighting back on a daily basis and could use my hard-earned dollars much more than Kerry.

I think, if we're going to help Kerry with a "Fighting Back" fund then we should also start an "Automatic Weapon" fund for Barney Fife. Neither knows what to do with the proceeds.

[ProSense]

90. I'm a voting American who listens, sees and reads.

What percentage of the voting public does any campaign staff represent? BTW, 121 million people voted, 59 million of them for Kerry.

The purpose of a campaign staff is to generate awareness and promote and support the candidate.

The fact is, I was aware of his and other responses on his behalf. I signed the petition. I saw the ads. I read the articles. I know a lot of other people, even Republicans, who were also aware of the responses (some of them heard about it from me); a lot of Democrats who voted and have never once logged on to an Internet blog, but were still aware of the responses. And it seems, obviously, a lot of people in this thread were also aware of the responses. So with all due respect, and with all the links to documents citing those responses, your saying Kerry didn't respond is your opinion.

[LincolnMcGrath]

97. Have you ever worked a phone bank?

[ProSense]

99. Why do you ask? Does working a phone bank make you more aware

or more prone to being supportive, and consistent in that support?

[LincolnMcGrath]

104. Working a phone bank gives one insight into what folks are thinking.

I had a registered independent tell me JK was a draft dodger. Can you believe that?

As for your question, yes, I do believe working a phone bank makes one more aware of what "Joe and Jane Lunchbox' is feeling.

[ProSense]

116. I don't disagree that it makes you aware

of what the people you're calling are thinking. But interacting with people in other venues, locally or otherwise, also provides insight. Some people are exposed to more of these types of interactions than others.

[rox63]

150. The 'Fight Back Fund'

is for his PAC, which is helping other Dems get elected.

[blm]

189. So when Kerry GIVES A SPEECH DIRECTED AT THE Swiftlies and the

broadcast media refuses to cover it or discuss what he said in his defense, then that's all Kerry's doings, too? Kerry TOLD the broadcast media to ignore his speech to the firefighters convention where he defended himself on the swiftlies?

Too bad so many are creatures of TV and the GOP manipulation of the media.

Post 38 proves that the perception was false, yet few will acknowledge the truth.

[CornField]

211. blm, please go research your dates

By the time Kerry gave that speech, it had been over two weeks since the SBV had begun their attacks. We (those of us working the phone banks and doing grassroots campaigning) had been attempting to field questions and so-forth for weeks prior to that. Kerry left us hanging. Now, unlike some, I don't think this was due to a lack of courage. I think it was a mistake in judgement. That is, he was either convinced or believed for himself that the lies would blow away on their own.

[blm]

234. He generated articles proving the swifties lied and then made a SPEECH

that should have gotten wall to wall coverage by broadcast media.

[Jane Austin]

68. Good point. We need to be able to look critically at what went wrong in

2004, what our candidates did or didn't do that didn't help, and who could do better next time.

If we can't talk about that, on a Democratic discussion forum, then we are in terrible trouble.

[karynnj]

200. Look at post 38 - she obviously did considerable work

to answer fully with great links the SBVT question in the OP.

[CornField]

62. I do have the right to my own opinion, even when it differs from yours

Still, I wouldn't call my post "screaming down" in as much as it was screaming in frustration. Take it however you please and support whomever you please.

[ProSense]

67. That's the idea, but since receiving e-mail from Kerry's PAC rekindles

your frustration, I would suggest you either unsubscribe or write to his PAC to express your frustrations.

[FreedomAngel82]

101. Or go join another pac

Go join another pac where you can do work and feel like you're doing an effective job. Why in the hell are you with a group where you don't give 100-200% of your time? There are plenty of democrats you can help out for 2006. I'll give you a start: http://www.terry2006.com

[rosesaylavee]

60. Cf, thanks for your hard work

last year. And, yes, I think we could have done better addressing the Swiftboaters. But I don't think that that is why the election went to Chimpie. IMO (which is no longer humble given the amount of info that is coming out now about this) the election win went to Chimpie due to the massive unprecedented election fraud in several states - Ohio, Florida, New Mexico and now Alaska is raising questions too.

The Swiftboaters were only a piece of the puzzle but not the main piece. Propaganda could only work so far.

I hope that working as hard as you did will not deter you from applying your talents to the next election to the candidate of your choice. I am hoping to do the same. I went door to door and spent hours on the phone too - drove two hours to the next state to do so as thankfully, Illinois was going undoubtedly blue. Obviously, I am still a Kerry supporter and hope that my posts didn't offend or hurt.

Peace.

[CornField]

76. Looking forward to it, rosesaylavee

:) Working on the Kerry campaign wasn't all bad. Truth be told, it was a lot of fun. I'm sure my toes will soon be feeling frostbite again. No worries about the rest. I don't offend or hurt too easily. In the wee recesses of my mind, there's still a glimmer of hope that Kerry will rise up and do something spectacular.

Did you come to Iowa from Illinois? If so, I think we may have met.

[rosesaylavee]

78. No Beloit was closer for me...

I have nothing but hope for 2006 and 2008 and if Kerry were to be the candidate again, I would fight like hell for him again... or the Dem candidate whoever she/he will be.

I have lots of family in Iowa... my inlaws are in DBQ. Going there this weekend in fact to celebrate the new year. Unfortunately, more RWers who listen to Rush than the other side. (sigh)

[LincolnMcGrath]

87. We had a ton of Illinois volunteers in my county also.

:hug: to all of them!

[rosesaylavee]

89. One positive to come of all this grief

is that I think people will be much more proactive as citizens. I know I never considered this level of involvement prior to the 200 election. I even became an election judge so I could figure out what the hell happened in Florida and to make sure it wasn't happening here in my precinct.

Never would have done that without the fear of the Fascists that *co put in me. Hey, I guess he IS a uniter and not a divider! :sarcasm:

[FreedomAngel82]

103. And who was it who

had an exit plan first? Wasn't it John Kerry? He had a plan way before John Murtha spoke up (God bless him mind you). I remember Dean being on "Hardball" a couple months ago and he was going to talk about Kerry's plan but they wouldn't let him.

[FreedomAngel82]

102. Just a lil reminder

John Kerry did win. Shh.

[blm]

73. It was proven to you in several posts that he did defend himself and media

chose to not give his defense the airtime they gave his attackers. You chose to ignore the posts and their proof in favor of insisting he did nothing.


BTW....Bush never countered ONE ATTACK against him - he had an RNC message machine to do it all for him. The DNC did not have any machine in place - and hadn't had one schooled in anything more than defense of Clinton for 8 years, and not schooled in supporting and sharing knowledge of Democratic candidates.

[FreedomAngel82]

108. I remember on Jon Stewart's show

he showed Bush saying he wasn't involved and than he pinpointed people directly to Bush. You can probably find it still at onegoodmove.org They keep video's up. Like the old saying goes: if isn't on the teevee it didn't happen.

[bigtree]

128. Stewart is a comedian

not a political analyst.

[rosesaylavee]

129. Even so, he does a better job at analyzing than most

others on the television these days.

Humor has long been an important weapon in politics. Satire stings, sarcasm at its root meaning translates to ripping flesh.

[bigtree]

141. don't get me wrong. John provides good defenses for our causes

I love his show. But, I wouldn't go so far to suggest, as the poster I responded to seemed to, that the Daily Show was a flawless arbiter of events. The show is about comedy. That's their focus. They're not trying to be archivists, covering every detail with historical accuracy. I would use them as a source to highlight that which was firmly established or apparent elsewhere. The poster's assertions about Kerry, in my opinion, were not so apparent or established outside of the show, although Stewart was not ambiguous about his distain for Kerry's manner and campaign. I seldom agreed with John Stewart's characterizations of our excellent candidate.

[rosesaylavee]

144. Yep. Love Jon Stewart -

don't much care for his, as you put it, disdain for Kerry's campaign and work.

However, Stewart plays an important role in how current events are going to be remembered - at least in the under-30 crowd that watches him (not that over-30s don't watch him as I am in that category).

Humorous takes, jokes, gags, stay in our memories longer than a one-time viewing of a speech or event on the news. Stewart wields a lot of power in this situation... wonder if even he knows how much?

But I agree. It is not about portraying events in an historial context at all. It's main focus is comedy. Unfortunately, for right now, it also is the one of the few places on the tube you can get a glimpse of events that are current but not on the other "news" channels - despite their 24/7 coverage.

[FreedomAngel82]

96. Exactly

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Whoever said "I don't belong to a political party, I'm a democrat" was right.

[rosesaylavee]

130. I think it was Will Rogers and the quote was:

I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a
Democrat.

[MoonRiver]

157. Fact is, most of the negative threads are against Kerry.

Gee, I wonder why...NOT.

[blm]

169. Most of the LIES are against Kerry, just as they've been for thirty years.

.

[ProSense]

175. Yeah, and they're all started because he did something positive. n/t

[politicasista]

177. No, bashing is fun

It's addicitive everytime the name Kerry appears. :sarcasm:

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. Yeah I got that too and deleted it ASAP

[hundred6]

86. agreed...

we need to support the fightin dem's. the 35 democratic military and war vets need our help. donate to their campaings and volenteer if they are running in your area.

[rosesaylavee]

91. Well to DU, hundred6!

:hi:

[kliljedahl]

92. I ddn't read that far before I deleted it

I keep trying to get off the mailing list but he keeps sending me this crap anyway. Suddenly, now he's "Mr. Activist", GIVE ME A BREAK!



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[MH1]

121. Wow, I just clicked unsubscribe. (when I changed email addys)

Funny, it worked fine for me. No more email at the address I unsubscribed from. Amazing how that works.

[kliljedahl]

126. I did that, they're still coming

Keith’s Barbeque Central

[sleipnir]

94. Finally, I knew this was coming! John Kerry is going to stand up to them!

I've been waiting for 18 months! He's finally going to fight back against those allegations and win!!!!

What? The election is over? Huh....well I guess you can't fight all the battles....

[rosesaylavee]

117. One difficulty with a thread this long is that responses

pertinent to the OP get lost in the shuffle. Mid-thread is this answer to the OP that details the Kerry campaign's response to the Swift boaters.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5715419&mesg_id=5715765

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

106. God Bless President Kerry, And Thank You John For All That You've Done

and continue to do.

John, :yourock:

[butterfly77]

107. Don't run kerry!

No wimping out allowed.

[FreedomAngel82]

109. Oh yes

Let's not actually read the Email here, shall we? Didn't anybody actually, oh I don't know, READ the email?

[butterfly77]

112. Yeah. I read it .

Don't run Kerry you didn't fight throughout the campaign!

[rosesaylavee]

118. Have you read the other posts on this thread?

Just wondering. As there are some details as to how Kerry responded and continues to respond to the RW talking points.

[butterfly77]

124. Yes. I've read them .

We don't need the same warmed over soup. The torture was too much, watching his non responses to bush and the gang. Yes. I enjoyed the debates when he made bush look stupid. I know that Kerry is very intelligent and a smart man.

Yes. I liked how he fought back against the Vietnam war, but now is a time for war. War against these evil,dirty ,sneaky,lying hypocrites. This is not a time to be politically correct. Like Kerry said when they were taping without his knowledge." These are the most dirty, lying , whatever, whatever"

I am tired of watching them get away with all of their dirty tricks. They are not on vacation now, they are planning the next set of dirty tricks. Dems are always trying to be so nice don't they know they are fighting with the devil and his minions? Don't run Kerry!

[ProSense]

136. So you admit:

He knows they are dirty liars by his own words, responded (post 38) and is still fighting (post 7), but you don't believe he is fighting hard enough?

Who do you support who is fighting hard enough against the dirty tricks?

[butterfly77]

142. yes, I believe that he knows they are dirty liars ...

AND I BELIEVE HE IS FIGHTING FOR ANOTHER RUN FOR PRESIDENT. I BELIEVE IF YOU READ WHAT I POSTED YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND WHAT I MEANT. HE CAN FIGHT ALL HE WANTS TO NOW, DID HE FIGHT HARD ENOUGH DURING THE CAMPAIGN? NO!

He can fight as hard as possible for the Democratic party. Like I said I do not want to go through the same old garbage and watch the repugs pull the same old stunts. He should've been fighting like hell when the swift boat bastards told those lies on him.

What did he do, he chose to ignore it and let them call him FLIPPER. He acted like he was afraid to speak up to the biggest flipper of them all. I would have been angry ass hell if I went to Vietnam and put my life in danger and some lying asses,were portraying me as a liar.

Who would I like to see the person I voted for in the primaries, Wes Clark. By the time it got to my state they had chosen Kerry. Don't run Kerry! Don't run Kerry! Don't run Kerry!

[ProSense]

145. You still keep saying he ignored it. That's false. But my question

was who do you support who is fighting hard against the dirty tricks, not who you'd like to see figthing hard. A lot of veterans stood up for Kerry then, like he standing up for Murtha now. I like Clark, I know when he dropped out he put his support behind Kerry.

[butterfly77]

153. I see that you are determined to get me to say I would vote for Kerry ...

Ok. If that was our only hope, but he is not going to win in the primaries this time. That would be a rerun of the same old dirty tricks with some new ones up their sleeves.

I am already tired of watching arrogant ass dancing and prancing up on air force one and across the screen and I do not want to go through this again with Kerry giving some weak as possum piss answers to whoever they have running against him. I want someone to speak up and tell it like it is. Bring it to those bastards like they bring it to us.

[ProSense]

162. This is not about voting for Kerry.

What he is doing (per post 7) is fighting and telling it like it is. You keep referring to him as weak. I'm asking: who do you support who is fighting as hard or harder?

If you don't have that answer, fine.

[butterfly77]

164. Its really to early to tell ...

everybody is getting set 2006. You don't have the answer because everything will change by 2008, but from what I see so far the Feingold is speaking up and boldly and clearly. I am watching and waiting but Kerry is not the one.

[ProSense]

166. Yes, 2006 is key.

And fighting against the RW agenda now is also key, which is why I appreciate all the Kerry is and has been doing.

Feingold has also been fighting against the RW agenda.

[seabeyond]

173. so we arent expecting ANY fighting until 2008. lmao

ah ha, you yell at kerry for not yelling, though he is the ONE yelling then say you have no expectation of your dream boat politicial doing any standing up right now, during this mess, today..... cause he/she is getting ready for the future.

this post takes the cake

[butterfly77]

181. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!

I DON'T CARE IF HE YELLED YESTERDAY, TODAY OR TOMMORROW. WHAT I'M SAYING IS kERRY IS NOT THE ONE.I DON'T HAVE A DREAMBOAT CANDIDATE, everybody is speaking up Kerry is not the only one speaking out,right now. We don't know who will be the candidate,by 2008 we don't know what will happen from day to day. You take the cake!

Don't run Kerry!

[LittleClarkie]

137. Eh, so that's one vote we won't get in the primaries. Right then.

He does have mine though. Every day and twice on Sunday.

[butterfly77]

146. Good for you!

he is not going to get to the primaries. Let me say this I don't believe we lost in 2000 or 2004.

My point is if they weren't cheating or stealing elections, he would let the other side get the upper hand , by not responding and trying to be politically correct. He should have stood up and told the truth about that arrogant spoiled ass non-president.

[LittleClarkie]

149. Why wouldn't he get to the primaries?

Any shmuck can get to the primaries.

It's getting out of the primaries that's the trick.

Politically correct, or statesmen-like. I dunno. I know he wanted to come out swinging at one point, during a speech in front of the VFW, but the call came out from Cahill and Shrum "Restrain the candidatte!!" They feared he'd look too bitter and lose votes or something.

They should have let him be the man he was. As it is, he gained traction in the last two months because he got pissed off. He's a wonder to behold when he's angry. The Rolling Stone knew it too. Hence the artwork that now serves as my avatar.

Anyone that Hunter S. Thompson was ready to roam the streets for with a meat hammer to get elected must be alright, wouldn't you think?

[butterfly77]

160. He should have said what he felt and stop following the script...

the american people aren't robots...Eh, except the freepers and christian wrong. I have yet to see that anger he should have used it against that arrogant bushit.

[LittleClarkie]

163. I have.

Watching lots of CSPAN helps.

One could say the same about Gore. But I'm glad to have him angry as well. There are times when the two of them remind me of each other.

[MaineDem]

115. Wonderful...I'd hate to be reading responses from Republicans

:eyes:

Good lord!

[LittleClarkie]

120. 1. It's not for him

2. Maybe he's learned. Imagine that.

[OnionPatch]

123. I have to say, I had the same reaction

I just read that email about three minutes before seeing this post. Can't help it, I felt the same way. He didn't fight near hard enough against the swiftboat thugs, IMO. I know, I know....the media was out to get him, etc. etc. but they should have fought harder against those attacks. He should have fought them tooth and nail and he didn't, or at least I didn't see where he did.

[rosesaylavee]

134. Again, have you read all the posts on this thread...

you are asking for him to fight tooth and nail. Show me where he didn't do that and isn't doing it now?

Posts 7, 14 and 38 are fairly detailed in how Kerry addressed the Swiftboaters and RWers throughout the campaign and since. What else does he need to do? It is not just your post but others on this thread that confuse me in their virulent response to all things Kerry. I can understand that much of this poison stems from a deepseated disappointment in last year's election. What I can't understand is how Kerry, no matter what he does or how hard he works for the DEM cause, gets bashed despite it all on this 'democrat-focused' forum.

Please do me a favor and read the posts up thread and tell me what you think? What else does he need to do to show that he is engaged in fighting this admin?

And if you can name, them, please tell me who else is doing a better job?

[demnan]

131. Could someone please tell Kerry to stop running for President!

I mean 2004 is over. He just needs to bow out. Really. The man put nothing into running in the south when he had a chance to defend himself. He let a lot of other good veterans down. And my heart ached for my brother when all that swift boat shit came out. My brother was a veteran who was against the war.

Tell Kerry to shut the fuck up!

[seabeyond]

133. so he shouldn't have been the first to defend murtha

and state that he and dems wouldn't allow this man to be swiftboated. dont even know if anyone would have stood up for murtha, if it weren't for kerry. people didn't for him.

but wtf,........ kerry should have just kept his mouth shut. along with the myriad of other stuff he has been speaking out about. couldn't it be, that he is being a senator. or would you suggest that really our senators need to just keep their mouth shut.

[LittleClarkie]

135. He's a Senator. He's not going to bow out of the job of BEING Senator.

He will pop up on occasion. Such is life. And just because you hear his name, doesn't mean he's running for president at that precise moment. He might, quite possibly, just be doing his damn job.

[demnan]

138. I'm just frustrated

This guy let us down in 2004. I worked and believed in him too. He's a high falutin' Senator from Massachusetts, and he doesn't give a rats ass for us down in Virginia.

[LittleClarkie]

139. I know

But I'm convinced he cares more than you know, and that his every action now is not him running for president.

I was disappointed too. But I still like the big lug. So sue me. :)

[ProSense]

140. He did work to help elect Kaine and others across the country.

Kerry e-mail:

The Kilgore campaign asked George W. Bush to come to Virginia today in a desperate attempt to recover from their candidate’s gaffe-filled performance in Saturday’s gubernatorial debate.

Tim Kaine was the clear winner in this year’s first face off between the two candidates. If we move quickly we can build on Lt. Governor Kaine’s momentum and move an important step closer to ensuring Tim Kaine’s victory this November.

Today, Bush is coming to Virginia to stand with Jerry Kilgore to try to sell Kilgore’s failed programs and irresponsible policies to your fellow Virginians. With his fiscal recklessness and mean-spirited, negative campaign tactics Jerry Kilgore is wrong for Virginia.

We will not allow him to turn back the clock to the old days when Virginia was running massive deficits and the transportation and educational needs of the state were going unmet.

Bush will use his fundraising network to fill Kilgore’s campaign coffers with checks from powerful special interest groups and hard-right ideologues. Let’s use our grassroots power to help Tim Kaine fight back. If you want Tim Kaine to continue his fight for honest budgeting, giving every kid a good education, keeping faith with Virginia veterans, creating good jobs throughout the state, and protecting habitat for fishing and hunting, then you need to do everything you can to put Tim Kaine in Virginia’s governor’s office.

Virginia is one of only two gubernatorial races this year. It will be closely watched to see which party has a vision for the future that inspires voters at the polls. You can help stop Bush in 2005 by acting today.

Join with the Johnkerry.com community in Virginia as we kick off a special one-day fundraising campaign to give Tim Kaine a strong grassroots boost.

Kilgore and Bush think this is their day in Virginia. Let’s prove them wrong.

By the time Bush returns to the White House tonight, let’s show that thousands of Virginians are committed to maintaining Democratic control of the governor’s office by electing Tim Kaine this November.

Please pass this message along to everyone you know in Virginia. In the next 24 hours, let’s stand with Tim Kaine.

Thank you,

John Kerry





John Kerry Congratulates Tim Kaine on his Victory in Virginia
For Immediate Release

Washington, D.C. – John Kerry issued the following statement tonight on Democrat Tim Kaine's victory in the Virginia Governor's race.

"Tonight Virginians rejected the slash and burn tactics of the Republican Party and elected a Democratic Governor in Virginia who campaigned on a positive plan for Virginia families. Our mission now is to replicate the successes of the 2005 campaigns in 2006. I congratulate my friend Tim Kaine on his impressive victory and Democrats across the state for their hard work in winning this campaign. They refused to let the Republicans change the subject away from failed policies and stood up to a furious onslaught of negative campaigning.

"President Bush and the Republican Party are paying a price for their failure to lead. Their misplaced priorities and ongoing scandals and investigations are causing problems for Republican candidates for offices."

John Kerry and Keeping America's Promise, John Kerry's leadership PAC, worked to help mobilize grassroots support for Tim Kaine and the Democratic ticket by helping to recruit volunteers and recruit lawyers for voter protection efforts on Election Day. Keeping America's Promise also raised funds and contributed directly to the state party's coordinated campaign efforts.


http://www.keepingamericaspromise.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2005_11_08b.html

[MH1]

155. No. Just simply no.

You're blaming the candidate for things where there are a lot of places the blame should rightfully be spread.

John Kerry is a great Senator and will make a great President. I'll be happy to vote for him again. I'll be happy to campaign for him again.

Meanwhile, get a load of this. SOME people like Kerry and will respond to his email and give money to other candidates. Would you deprive those candidates of the leverage of Kerry's name? Just because YOU don't want him to run for President in 2008?

Guess you would. :eyes:

(KInd of a selfish attitude, isn't it?)

[LittleClarkie]

154. Cornfield, do you like getting Kerry's emails or no?

You do realize that if you find them annoying that you can unsubscribe to his list.

[MH1]

156. He must like them, it pushes the "let's bash Kerry" button.

:eyes:

[CornField]

209. One more time... dammit

CornField... errr, me... is a SHE! :)

As for the emails, I've attempted to unsubscribe several times. The emails continue to come... along with the fundraising phone calls too.

[gulliver]

158. Show me the fight. I'll show Kerry the money.

I got the e-mail too. Same reaction. He must be kidding.

[blm]

165. You can rely on broadcast media to inform you or read post 38 and

any of bigtree's link posts above.

Broadcast media chose to NOT give airtime to Kerry's defense. The articles written were not discussed, and the speech he made to the firefighters defending himself on the swiftlies was not aired or given much reportage by the networks.

[Gloria]

161. I've stopped opening this stuff up, no matter who it comes from

I get doubles of some of it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

168. He can use the funds that he was SUPPOSE to use to "fight back"

on the evoting vote FRAUD. He had PLENTY of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ left from that fund, I thought. :eyes:

[Blaukraut]

179. Not as easy as it might seem

There are a lot of legal issues involved in how, and where, certain campaign funds are spent. Here is an informative article on just that subject.



http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4180018


Election Fallout: Bickering Over Leftover Kerry Cash

snip:

The law limits what Kerry could do with that money. He was going to take public financing for the general election campaign in the fall, so he couldn't just push that $48.9 million over into post-convention spending. He could, however, transfer dollars to his campaign's general-election legal and compliance fund -- of which more in a minute -- or transfer it to national and state Democratic committees.


snip:

West Virginia Democrats got $100,000 from Kerry and spent it registering voters. Minnesota got $196,000. The battleground states of Florida and Pennsylvania got $500,000 each. Kerry's campaign also steered cash into less likely states. Some $200,000 went to Montana, among the reddest of red states in the presidential campaign, where Democrats nonetheless succeeded in capturing the governorship and a chamber of the legislature. Another $300,000 went to Indiana, where the party was struggling to hang on to the governorship (which was won by a Republican).

snip:

And now to get back to that general election legal and compliance fund -- or what Washington wonks call the GELAC. Kerry's campaign directed a steady stream of money to its GELAC, which is a separate account presidential campaigns maintain to handle the money, file the disclosure reports, and otherwise comply with Federal Election Commission requirements.

All of these transfers totaled a bit less than $11 million through Oct. 13. Reports for the final 19-day sprint have yet to be filed. When they are, they'll show Kerry also gave the Democratic National Committee an astonishing $32.5 million.

snip

[LittleClarkie]

182. Define plenty?

Just out of curiousity.

How much do you think he had left?

From what I've been able to glean from www.opensecrets.org, he had at the end about as much as Gore did.

I've seen the number given that people THINK he had left to be anywhere from 8 million to 17 million to the amusing "bazzillion"

So, how much do YOU say?

[boobooday]

183. John Kerry . . .

You betrayed us.

I can never look at you the same again.

I never wanted you as the nominee, but when you got the nomination, I supported you, and warmed up to you, and voted for you.

And you won the election and then betrayed us all, and let that disgusting little despot have four more years to destroy all that is good about our country.

[LittleClarkie]

188. He didn't betray me

And he wouldn't still be involved in a lawsuit in Ohio if he'd given up entirely. I don't expect a prosecutor to go into battle without hard, take it to court evidence. He needed a whistleblower. He needed hard evidence. And I suspect there were those even in his own party who were glad he didn't have those things.

It took me a while to warm up to him too. The difference is I still see someone to admire, regardless.

And that disgusting little despot deserves ALL the blame if he stole the thing. Not the victim.

Just don't include me in that "we" if you please.

[DanCa]

190. I think kerry learned from the swift boat attacks.

Since he destroyed and won every debate in the past with John O'Niel I think he underestimated thier impact. I totally support this fund despite my differences with senator Kerry.

[seabeyond]

192. swiftboat came up in spring. media covered the press conference

and immediately dismissed it. pick up no momentum what so ever. totally dismissed as garbage, from news, and the people. who would expect it to them grab hold in august, unless they worked it to have the media grab hold of it. and media accommodated them

[Rex]

191. So now swift vote attacks gets legitamized as a form of political

manuver by JK. Gee Kerry, if you really gave a shit then why did you let them TRASH your military record? Why let cackling old morans stand at the RNC for the national spotlight with purple heart band-aids on their fat chins? You didn't fight back then, so I will not trust you to fight back in the future. Keep doing whatever you're doing Kerry, just let others run for POTUS. Maybe someone who can outcrazy Boosh's replacement. We need a Mr. Nasty.

[seabeyond]

193. they absolutely did fight the purple heart issue

along with kerry record as rathers was being attacked for showing bush's record.

dems were called whiners from media for bitching about the purple hearts. for dems to speak up on purple heart bandaides labeled them whiners. so they did what you suggested and guess what, it didnt work

[robbedvoter]

195. He won anyway. He should let people know: THEY STEAL!

More damage is done by outright stealing than mere smearing.

[kliljedahl]

198. Really good response here

Labeled

S

pecial

P

olitical

A

ction

M

essage From John Kerry



Dear Senator Kerry,

Thanks John, but what about the first political act of 2006 being articles of impeachment? Until Democratic “leaders” like you get behind a real solution to our current crisis, nothing will change. You of all people know how broken our system of voting is, yet you run from the truth every chance you get and continue to encourage us to vote in elections that have no chance of rectifying the problems we face. Real leadership requires first, a belief in what you say and second, the willingness to say it even when doing so may be not be politically expedient. Just ask your friend John Murtha. I’m sure he’s glad to have your support now, lucky for him that the political wind was blowing in the right direction long enough to sway you toward his point of view.

I guess I will never get over the fact that you walked away from a fraud riddled election, content to play the loser. But you were not the one who truly lost, that indignity belongs to those of us who supported you. Trust that we will not make the same mistake again. While I appreciate your attempt to keep yourself politically viable for the next go-around, we have reached a point where passive participation in democracy is no longer an option and unless and until you are willing to be active in changing the course we are on, I would kindly ask that you at least get out of the way.

Sincerely,
The (liberal)Girl Next Door



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[ProSense]

201. Is there still time to edit ? Some of the facts are wrong.

The majority party would have to be on board to file articles of impeachment. And impeachment isn't initiated by the Senate, it's an action initiated by the House Judiciary Committee.

In fact if the Democrats want to impeach but the Republicans don't, the Democrats would have to be the majority party, which means the first act toward impeachment without Republican support is to win the Congress back in 2006.

Oh, as Conyers says, the Republicans may respond to outrage from the public (no outrage, no action), so maybe the first the letter should have been written to a Republican member of Congress.

[kliljedahl]

204. I didn't write it

That's a direct copy from the web site, check the link. I thought it was a good response though.



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[bpilgrim]

202. our 'shipmate' left us stranded on the beach

in 2004

never again

peace

[YvonneCa]

203. Leave my ...

...President alone.:7 I Love John Kerry!:hi:

[bpilgrim]

206. he is a punk ass coward who abandoned us all on the beaches.

fyi: he is not the president

peace

[politicasista]

208. Sorry, but you are describing Bush

[bpilgrim]

210. skull&bones

he was a sleeper candidate who abandoned all of us on the beach.

lets hope he comes out of his trance eventually.

peace

[ProSense]

214. Get off the beach!

The ship has docked. No one is coming to rescue you because everyone has move inland and is continuing the march to take back the country.

This land is my land, this land your land. The beach is for laying around in the sand.

Get off the beach!

Come to think of it, with language like that stay on the beach and bury your head in the sand.

[bpilgrim]

215. i live here

and he lied to all of us who live here, the coward.

peace

[ProSense]

219. You live on the beach?

He didn't lie to me. I think he's one of the most courageous people around. And despite the fact that I don't think you offer any inspiration, he is fighting every day.

[bpilgrim]

222. it's a navy euphemism - never mind

fyi: many abused spouses say the same thing you do.

vicious circle, ain't it...

peace

[ProSense]

224. Euphemism is no substitute for the realities of the day.

Again you misread the cues: my exuberance is because I believe in hope and in picking oneself up, brushing aside regret and continuing to move forward.

Makes no sense to wallow in self-pity on "the beach."

[bpilgrim]

233. reporting for duty, sir

tell it to your hero, he's the one who raised the specter than ran away.

PUNK

peace

[WildEyedLiberal]

231. The only coward I see

Is a punk ass little keyboard warrior throwing big tough words at men whose boots he isn't fit to lick. Your type are always there in the midst of every political movement, spreading despair, pessimism, and doubt, and dragging down those who actually work to get the mission accomplished. The only coward I see is someone who would dare to question the bravery of a man who has confronted more evil than your little mind can wrap itself around. Go ahead, big guy: throw your internet insults across cyberspace. Let it make you feel tough. But compared to Senator Kerry (or any other of our fighting Dems, for that matter, whom I have no doubt you hold in equal contempt), you are less than an insect beneath his shoe.

[bpilgrim]

232. r u looking in the mirror?

he iS A PUNK ASS COWARD WHO LEFT US All stranded on the beaches. he is the one who made the big promises not me, if he can't stand the heat tell HIM to get out the kitchen. and don't blame me for spreading despair, pessimism and doubt our leaders are the ones at the switches.

peace

[WildEyedLiberal]

247. Another typical

Whining, mewling do-nothing who screams about revolution, but expects everyone else to do it for you. Calling John Kerry a "punk ass coward" speaks volumes more about your intelligence, integrity, and maturity than it does about the Senator's. While you sit on the sidelines and fling your shit at those better than you like a monkey in a cage, people like John Kerry will keep fighting for America.

And save your hypocritical "peace." You wouldn't know "peace" if it slapped you in the face.

[seabeyond]

239. what an interesting perspective

what an interesting post. i think i am going to have to agree with your interpretation. thank you for sharing.

[ginnyinWI]

205. I'm not saying Kerry didn't fight back,

And I'm not saying he didn't win either. I'm sure enough votes were pilfered to cause him to lose Ohio--paper ballots honestly counted in Ohio would have doubtless given it to Kerry.

But--nobody is perfect. The campaign surely made some mistakes. Here is what Kerry himself said in the latest Esquire:

"Unfit for Command was a pack of lies. I said so at the time.
My crew said so. The Navy said so. But a lot of money was put behind the lies. If a lot of money is put behind a lie, it will become the truth for some people–particularly if they don’t get enough of the real truth. I take the blame for not making certain there was money behind the real truth. That’s what I meant when I said I should have come back and coldcocked him."

What I get from this is that next time, if there is one, he will be even more aggressive about fighting lies in the media and never allowing one to stand. This is a fact that will make him an even better candidate in the future, should he choose to run. Not saying he will, but everyone should realize that an '08 Kerry would be very different from the '04 Kerry.

[bpilgrim]

207. well, i am

and i ain't the only one

peace

[WildEyedLiberal]

248. Ignorance

Your idiotic one liners backed up with no intelligent thought or reason are polluting this thread. Did you learn your debate "tactics" from Freeperland?

[Bluebear]

212. STOP! "He's fighting BEHIND the scenes!"

:eyes:

[seabeyond]

220. they wont stop, they dont care. it isnt about if they are right or wrong

it is about trashing a man.

[AgadorSparticus]

221. that's funny. after last year, I doubt they will raise enough to pay the

electric bill. I hear ya, Cornfield. This is a little much.

[ProSense]

225. They raised enough to win a bunch of elections this year. n/t

[jillan]

223. I've come to the conclusion that John Kerry

could hunt down and capture Osama; design and implement a completely fair voting system; build levies in NOLA by hand that would withstand a Cat 5 Hurricane...

AND MANY OF YOU WOULD STILL BASH HIM!

[rosesaylavee]

226. Yes. I think they would.

Does no one read what's already been posted around here?

Do yourselves a favor and read posts 7, 14 and 38 at least before posting on this thread.

[jillan]

227. I was referring to posts such as #4

Some people refuse to see all that Kerry has accomplished during the past year.

[rosesaylavee]

229. Just that one?

I see that we all have a ways to go in doing some things right before the 2006 election -

1.) Base our positions on historical facts whenever possible (links to resources supporting views - whatever happened to that practice or expectation here on DU?)

2.) Accept the fact that we will not all unanimously vote for the same candidate. I for one will support whoever the DEM candidate is when the time comes... despite the character assassination here.

3.) Make allowances for others (and hopefully ourselves) to review alternative ideas and FACTS and to change our minds on issues and candidates.

Not a rant towards you, pirhana... just a wish that the discussion will improve as we head into the new year.

[wisteria]

230. I am impressed with Kerry. He is still out their fighting for us and

for the Democratic party.I domate often because I know my donation is being put to good use.

I don't understand how you can say he rolled over. No way he rolled over. I am sorry that you can't seem to get past the last election and see what a great American and person John Kerry really is.

[Th1onein]

235. I think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Just because it's Kerry who is bringing the message. Sure he lost. Sure there are things that we don't like about him. He wasn't my favorite candidate, either. But the underhanded crap that the Republicans pulled needs to be stopped, or at least addressed in some manner.

And, whether we like to admit it or not, money talks in this world. This cause is important and it requires money. Sitting back and watching their dirty tactics has gotten us nowhere. If the only thing that I can do is give money, then that's what I'll do.

[rucky]

243. I'll donate in about a year.

that seems like the standard Democratic response time for anything.

[Dr Fate]

245. Good- then do it. Why tear down one DEM to build up another?

Please, by all means, support the fighting DEM of your choice- but what is the point in re-hashing old news about Kerry's past failures?

It's just my opinion, but I would have rather seen a thread about a fighting DEM you plan on supporting in '08.