Heads-up: We've been working on a new design for the DU homepage

[Skinner]

The Democratic Underground administrators are working on a new homepage for our website. We know that many of you are very resistant to change, so we thought it would be a good idea to give you some advance notice so you can prepare yourselves. Some of you will like the new homepage, some of you will be indifferent, and -- let's be honest here -- some of you are going to hate it. ;)

There is still a fair amount of programming that needs to be done in order to get the new homepage ready. If everything goes as planned, we hope to have the new homepage up sometime in the next week or two.

The bottom line is that the DU admins do not feel that our current homepage is appropriate for our website anymore. In fact, we kind of hate it. Our goal on this change is to completely get rid of the apparent separation between "articles" and "discussion forum" that is characteristic of the current homepage, and to give much more emphasis to the great writing that DU members are doing on the discussion forum and in their DU Journals. In fact, the DU Journals will be an extremely important part of the new homepage.

We don't have a final design to show you yet. We plan to post more details next week, before we unveil the new homepage. But we can tell you this: the basic layout is your typical three-column blog-style layout (ads on the left, content in the middle, links and other info on the right). It is probably going to look a lot like the default page design for the DU Journals, which was based on the design of our discussion forum. If you have no clue what I am talking about, here are a few examples:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Skinner
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Bob+Geiger
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/BobcatJH
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Plaid+Adder

Please feel free to post in this thread if you have any questions. The three admins will do our best to answer them.

Skinner
DU Admin

We're going to let this thread float for a bit so everyone can see it, and we'll probably pin it to the top later today. If you feel like clicking the "recommend" link or giving it a kick, we won't mind.

[NMDemDist2]

1. This is HUGH!!! I"M SERIES!!!!!!!11111111111!!!!!

:rofl:

I'm sure it will be most excellent dear Admins :grouphug:

[cal04]

2. I like the second one. It looks nice with the

pics on it. Thanks skinner for the links

[wtmusic]

3. Despite my advanced age I will try to keep an open mind

Although I sure like DU the way it is.

[xultar]

18. Ageed. I dig the Home page as is.

[ClintonTyree]

Why in MY day.........

we didn't HAVE home pages......and we LIKED IT! ;) I agree, I'm of the "older persuasion" myself and like the home page just the way it is but since this is a Democracy, at least here on DU, I'll go along with whatever everybody else decides we need.
Oh, by the way.....we had to WALK 3 MILES, UPHILL to school....BOTH WAYS.....and we LIKED IT! :rofl:

[wtmusic]

59. In them days we was glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.

SECOND YORKSHIREMAN: A cup o' cold tea.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN: Without milk or sugar.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN: Or tea.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN: In a cracked cup, an' all.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN: Oh, we never had a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN: The best we could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth...

http://www.phespirit.info/montypython/four_yorkshiremen.htm

My all-time fave.

[papau]

62. Old folks can adapt - just takes a bit more time - I am sure this will be

great!

AND WE had to WALK 5 MILES, UPHILL THROUGH 5 FEET TALL SNOW DRIFTS .....NO COAT...NO BOOTS.. WEARING A WET T-SHIRT - WITH A CONSTANT 25 MILE PER HOUR BREEZE THROWING HAIL THE SIZE OF BASEBALLS AT US on our way to GRADESCHOOL....AND THEN BACK HOME..... and we LIKED IT!

[LuckyLib]

69. You forgot the snow, part CT, three miles uphill IN THE SNOW.

Or at least that's the way my Dad used to tell it. He hightailed it for California as a young man. Any wonder?

[Ian David]

4. You know what it needs?

More cowbell.

[wtbymark]

5. "We know that many of you are very resistant to change"

hey- are you tryin' to call us conservative? :sarcasm:

[ClassWarrior]

6. I'm just curious where the current front page articles will debut...

Adder and Top 10 Idiots and such.

I really like the fact that you all are constantly working to improve DU. Thanks.

NGU.

[EarlG]

8. Those articles are now in Journal format anyway

so they will be posted along with the other Journals on the home page. However, the daily "features" (Top 10, Auntie Pinko, Crisis Papers, Blog Box) will also be getting special treatment at the top of the page.

[marions ghost]

39. oh OK

I like the daily features

posting some journal articles is a good idea

[EarlG]

43. The idea is that the daily features will become Journals

We've already done this with the Top 10, Auntie Pinko, etc. We plan to ask the authors who currently write for the home page to start using the Journals function too. Here are two who just got started today:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Gene%20C.%20Gerard
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/WinterBybee

We're also featuring Bob Geiger's Journal on the home page today:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Bob%20Geiger/7

The problem is that with the current setup we can only add one or two Journal entries to the home page per day. The new setup will allow us to add more, and to be able to update more regularly.

[Imperialism Inc.]

58. Future idea.

Is there a way to keep the daliy feature journals from showing up in the most viewed journals lists? It would be nice to see other DU members there instead.

[melissinha]

7. I like the homepage as is

The Journal page examples are not better than the homepage that you already have...... IMHO.
I like the large header and editorials where they are.

Though it would be more helpful to have live radio hosts lists on the frontpage as opposed to discussion page...

[Pab Sungenis]

40. Agreed. No changes.

Keep the home page as is. If anything scrap the "journals." People who want to blog have plenty of opportunities to do so elsewhere.

DU is not a "blog" although conservatives like to tag it as such in a perjorative manner. It's an editorial website with a message board linked to it. That's how it should stay.

[The Wielding Truth]

79. Yes. Everything ,yes.

Not opposed to improvement, but current homepage is better than examples.
Well,you kinda asked me.

[Minnesota Libra]

9. Skinner, you and my son make me feel so damn old seeings as how...........

....you and my son can both run circles around me when it comes to anything to do with the Internet and the computer.:cry: He too is into programming, internet networking (??), etc and it makes me feel so stupid sometimes:dunce: because my son has to send me endless emails with one thing to do per email or I literally get a MAJOR migraine.:cry:

I just got one question. Are we still going to be able to instantly tell the difference - on the home page - between articles written by DUers and articles from the web or LBN?? So far any changes DU has made to it's home page, forums, etc have in the long run all worked out for the better, so I will hold any comments until I see the end results.

Just one request, :headbang:DON'T leave us with the likes of CNN for our news.:pals:

[EarlG]

31. You will instantly be able to tell the difference

We will have two different treatments for items which are Journal entries, and items which are news stories or commentary from the message board. You'll be able to tell at a glance which is which.

[Atman]

10. It's a big step backwards, design-wise

I'm not resistent to change at all, I thrive on it. But not change for change's sake. I don't understand the point of this? The first thing I thought of was FR's home page...just another page. Your current home page features a nice clean design and graphics.

I realize you said it's still in the early stages, but unless you're planning to sweeten it up some with some design elements which set DU apart from the riff raff (as your current home page does), I'm not wow'd by any of the them.

:(

[annabanana]

20. I'm with Atman. . The front page is like a magazine cover..

The way it is, it draws people in. It should not look like the other pages.

Will we be able to vote on a few choices?

[demswin06]

11. I would like to see more "skins" added

None of the skins seen at DU really impress me that much, and I'm too much of an idiot to make one on my own. I keep going back and forth with the skins. One day, I go with the black, then the next day, it;s white with blue letters. The next day, I'll try the red, but I just can't seem to get comfortable with one skin I really like. Add more skins to the ones you already have.

[killerbush]

16. I agree Demswin06

I too would love more skins to choose from.

[StaggerLee]

12. Oh ho! So YOU'RE the decider!

Capo di tutti capi

Boss of bosses

For shame.

:)

[mistertrickster]

17. And the alternative is what exactly? A vote? Get real. Cut 'em some

slack. They do this for us, man.

[StaggerLee]

42. Relax, it was a joke

Didn't ya notice the smiley?

[mistertrickster]

85. Ah, okay . . . my bad. nt

[mistertrickster]

13. Sorry, I can't concur--if you're talking about doing away with the article

section on the homepage.

DU has so much information in it these days that it's hard to find what you're looking for without getting sidetracked with a lot of extraneous stuff.

What I like about DU is it's "one-stop shopping." I know that the very best of the MSM, the indy media, and the blogosphere is going to be highlighted where I can find it.

If I have to go picking through hyperlinks to search for what I might find interesting, DU will just become every other left-wing blog in the world.

I could be wrong, but that's the way I see it now.

Good luck in your decision.

[brainshrub]

14. I'm skeeeeerd of change!

Oh sorry, I had a sip of Republican Kool-aid.

[Benbow]

15. People outside the US may not come here for the articles

I know I don't. Sorry. I come straight to the Discuss page (which used to be called Latest), every time, so I hope that won't change. Pushing the links to the new stories to the outside of the page may make the site harder to use.

Perhaps I have missed something. If so, apologies. I like the Discuss and forum index pages as they are, and I usually only see the home page by accident!

[AlecBGreen]

19. like my ugly, stinky uncle

I love DU just the way it is! :hug:

If you feel as though you MUST change it, I would make activism/2006 elections/upcoming special elections/etc VERY prominent. After all, that is the goal of this whole shebang, right? Lets put some Dems in office.

[On the Road]

22. I Liked a Feature of a Previous Layout

which incorporated links to latest individual threads. It presented more information and drew you into the meat of the site immediately. And I would agree that most regular visitors check back more for recent discussion threads than for the articles.

[FlaGranny]

21. In the five years I've been here at DU

any changes you have made have always worked out great, once you get used to them. Nothing you have done over the years has detracted from the site, and I'll bet anyone that this change won't either.

:-)

FlaGranny is NOT afraid of change - I actually thrive on it.

[wryter2000]

23. What I use the home page for most

I check the home page first thing every day and later on after I've been off DU for a while. I want to see the threads that DUers and the admins feel are the most important. DU and links posted here are my main source of news, and the homepage is the primary indicator of what I really need to look at. As long as I can easily see the most important threads, I'm happy.

[EarlG]

34. Then the new design is for you

The purpose of the redesign is so that we can feature the best of what's happening on DU at any given time. Currently we can only add message board posts to the "blog" section on the home page, but with the new design we'll be able to feature the best Journal entries too. Authors who write articles for DU which are currently featured in the top section will now be posting their work as Journals. When the new home page is ready we'll be able to add their articles immediately instead of having to wait for the following day's "edition."

Here are a couple of the authors who have just made the transition to Journals:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/WinterBybee
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Gene%20C.%20Gerard

[annabanana]

24. Remember: Homepage is Magazine Cover...

New visitors will fly by if the cover is not alluring. Keep it clean, (design-wise).

[scubadude]

25. We must be able to seperate opinion from Media sources

Will this be possible with your new setup? Are you going tabloid?

Scuba

[EarlG]

36. There will be distinct separation

between Journal entries, which are mostly opinion, and the kind of message board posts we currently feature in the "blog" section on the home page, which are mostly news. You'll be able to tell at a glance which is which.

[scubadude]

46. I believe you need to seperate out verifiable...

news sources, from everything else. I use DU as a source of the latest news. I don't so much read
the replies, which are mostly opinion. I believe there are many people here who use DU for this
reason. I believe that there are many more nonmembers who use DU in this way. If you begin mixing
it all up you will force users to examine what kind of post they are looking at line by line, gradually eroding their ability to discern real from opinion, ala Tabloid news... Why make it harder?

I don't understand how your reply relates to this. Could you please elaborate?


Scuba

[EarlG]

48. Maybe I don't understand the question

As it currently stands, we already mix news and opinion on the home page, there's no real separation between the two. The new design will help to make a clearer distinction between what is news and what is opinion.

[scubadude]

52. Homepage only! I get it now.

Sorry, my misunderstanding.

Scuba

[Triana]

26. I definitely prefer the Latest and Greatest thread listings at the TOP..

..of the Right side rather than way down below the profile of the person whose article/Journal is featured. One of the first things I look for at DU is the Latest/Greatest threads and I like 'em at the top!

As handsome as Skinner is, I'm still too lazy to scroll down below his profile to see the L & G threads! So I don't like the first example for that reason. The others are OK. That's the only comment I've really got thus far. I have to say this site kicks butt and just keeps getting better. ALL you guys ROCK!

:hug:

[lpbk2713]

27. You might want to keep the graphics down to a minimum.

You know how pages with a lot of graphics are slow to load up for a dial-up connection. I use Roadrunner myself but you might want to keep the dial-uppers in mind. Especially those that come to DU for the first time. They might decide against coming back before they even get to see what DU is all about.


FWIW, all four examples look good to me. I suppose you have to include some graphics to keep the page from looking too bland.

[philosophie_en_rose]

28. how about posting directly to journals without posting in the forums?

just a suggestion.

[EarlG]

38. You can sort of do that now

Go to your Journal and look for the "Post to Journal" link in the top right hand corner. You still have to select a forum for the message to be cross-posted to though.

[gristy]

29. homepage?

DU has a homepage? The DU button on my toolbar takes me straight into the discussion forum! :)

[madokie]

30. I say go for it. Youse guys have done a good job so far, don't stop now

DU rocks.
^5's to all.

[Marnieworld]

32. You can do anything you want and I know I'll still be here everyday

I love your writing, this site is such a service to us all, if I had a million gazillion dollars I'd give you half! I'm sure it will only evolve to be better. If people don't like it they can come up with their own site.

[wake.up.america]

35. i would like to see more International News. I feel that the causes...

prescribed by Democraticunderground are cause for people around the globe.

Would be glad to contribute, if requested.

Is any of the money contributed by members going to Katrina releif efforts etc. ?

I would like to see more self-help orientated stories.

Say, someone in Toledo is driving to Columbus. Person is looking for someone to share gas, etc.

Free want ads section - perhaps?

Action section, ads section links on front page.

[Festivito]

33. Oh, move text over and put ads on the left. NBD

No big deal. Except for the programmer. Good vibes to Elad.

What would be nice is a dynamic categorization so we can follow those dang slow drips from the CONs, and maybe have to search through fewer forums.

[EarlG]

41. Dynamic categorization

We've discussed this idea but we haven't really started thinking about how best to implement it yet. But it is on our radar screen.

We also hope to eventually be able to add Technorati tags to DU, I don't know if that's in line with what you're thinking.

[brainshrub]

45. I've been experimenting with Del.icio.us tags for my DU Journal.

So far it works great. I'll send you the tutorial I'm working on for it this weekend.

[EarlG]

49. Cool, thanks

:thumbsup:

[librechik]

37. flamebait!

who you callin scared???!!!

:rofl:

seriously, go for it, you effin rule, Skinner--can't wait to see it!

[tinfoilinfor2005]

44. Door number two.

Unless I can trade it for an all expense paid vacation to Paris, France.

I'm easy. Not cheap; but easy.

[DemExpat]

47. I like positive change, and the default page for Journals looks great

to me - very pleasing to the eye, and much more professional than the present Homepage IMHO.

I can't wait to see it!

:bounce:

DemEx

[tavalon]

50. Look guys

I love ya. I love your site. Would you please take some of the donor money and take a vacation already? There seems to be a new change a week (many of which are fabulous) and I'm getting dizzy. You already have the best site ever. Sit back on your laurels already!

Edited for the lost question mark

[saltpoint]

51. At the first news of this, Skinner, I flew into a rage. We old people

are violently resistent! This is right up there with the Danish cartoon crisis if you ask me.

_ _ _

I'm for it. If you folks are in involved, it's bound to be terrific, and I predict it will enjoy wide support.

Keep up the terrific work, and many thanks.

[ms liberty]

53. Whatever you guys do I will deal with...

I might like it or not; but I trust ya'll to do what you think will be best. DU is too important to me to quibble over the look of the front page. Just remember not to get too fancy...for those of us on dial-up!!!

I do have a question, or perhaps request might be more accurate. On the latest page, and the front page, you can go past the first page to view previous pages; but you can't on the greatest page. I'd really, really like it if you could do that with the greatest page. It's not a demand or anything...just a preference!

DU is a glorious addiction. I thank the gods every day for it!

[Rude Horner]

54. I completely trust you guys

You just keep on making DU better and better. I'm sure that once we get used to the change, we'll love it more than ever. And that's saying a lot.

Thanks for all your hard work gentlemen, and thank you for continuing to try to improve this site. On those rare occasions that I venture over to freerepublic, I'm always so thankful to come back here where the webmasters obviously care. It lets me know that my donated money is going to good use.

thanks again!

[riona]

55. I use the Lobby as my starting page

[xxqqqzme]

56. I know many here peed all over themselves

when the journals were put up - I could give a rats ass about journals - I come 2 DU for LBN. It is the first place I go in the morning, last place B4 I go 2 bed. Just give me a click 2 go 2 LBN and I'll B happy (+ the state forum, my 2nd favorite place).

[Skinner]

57. kick (nt)

[Minnesota Libra]

60. Earl G and Skinner, could we please have some kind of an icon that........

....indicated total frustration - even more so than the :argh: or anything we have now?? There are times when discussing this criminal bunch that some kind of a stronger emotion is needed. Maybe something like a mini WH with a huge sledgehammer. That would be cool!!:bounce:

You guys :yourock:

[BrklynLiberal]

61. So far, all your changes have been for the better. I assume that I will

be able to adapt to, and appreciate any future changes you make, as well.
:thumbsup:

[klook]

63. Random Journal - YESSSSS!!

I like that feature a lot (on the "Skinner" prototype). Please include that, no matter what the overall design choice is.

One thing I'd like to see different is more lead-ins with hyperlinks to see the rest of the article. Maybe it doesn't need to be as busy as the Time Magazine site or WAPO. But I don't like having to scroll down through one 1,000-word article to see the next 683-word article, which I have to scroll through to get to the next 1,285-word article, etc. That's a lot of screen real estate to scroll down through to see just three or four long articles.

I realize that's the current design of the Journals, but it's the one complaint I have about that format. If I saw the headline and could browse the first 50-100 words of each article, that would be a lot more efficient. If I could click on the one I wanted to read, and then return to the previous page after reading, that would be a better experience for me.

Anyway, whatever you come up with, I'm sure it will be good. I continue to be impressed at the job you guys do in managing this site. You leave Creep Republic in the dust, as though they've fallen off their horse and are trying to find their hat, while you're already hitchin' up at the saloon getting ready to order a cold one.

[DianaForRussFeingold]

64. I love you just the way you are!

http://musicstore.real.com/music_store/preview.ram?trackid=5772860

:pals: :yourock:

[Imalittleteapot]

65. I like what we have now, but I'm not opposed to change.

DU is one of the best political websites, so if there is going to be an improvement I'm all for it.

[BooScout]

66. We are Liberals.....we love change ;-D

[Lars39]

67. Wellllll....

since I just yesterday figured out how to use the "Mark All" feature, I'll adapt.
Not sure what year...but I'll get there. :D

[4_TN_TITANS]

68. I say go for it....

the content and LIGHTNING FAST news that you can't find in one place, anywhere else, is what keeps me coming back.
All the changes so far have obviously had a lot of thought put into them - go for it!

(and thank-you DU...)

[newyawker99]

70. x

[graywarrior]

71. I love change....especially when I get advance notice

Kinda like waiting for a mammogram result.

[rug]

72. I hope you have a neon logo.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

73. Just One Big Question, If I May.

I think the concept of a redesign is great, and I'm sure I'll like whatever you guys come up with. My only concern initially is about the web address. For example, I can't get into the discussion forums at work, but I can access the first two pages (homepage + the one after clicking on 'enter discussion forums'). Would that change, or would the first two pages' addresses be the same, though a different layout? I can access the journals at work too, just not any page that has the 'duboards' within its address. Although I can't view the forums at work, I can still see the latest threads and breaking news, and then google for corresponding stories or click on the threadstarter's journal and hope they put it there. Just wanted to make sure the first two pages would still not have the 'duboard' in the address so I can stay somewhat informed while at work :)

[Skinner]

75. The web address for our homepage is not changing.

It will still be www.democraticunderground.com

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

76. This One Too? " www.democratic underground.com/discuss/ "

That's the main one I can still get my info from.

Thanks!

[Skinner]

77. That address isn't changing either.

None of the URLs for the site are changing.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

74. The idea is a good one as far as I am concerned

but Skinner! You are-so YOUNG to have created and maintained such an awesome place as DU!!!!!

[undeterred]

78. "We know that many of you are very resistant to change"

That's what we say about everyone else- it can't be true of us!

[DaDeacon]

80. No NO NO

You guys are goint to takea nice polished home page and make it look plain an like " any other Blog site" ? DUMB DUMB DUMB. Freerepublic.com is ugly as hell let's not join them!

[Redneck Socialist]

81. Well, purely from an aesthetics stand point...

none of the kinda, sorta examples you posted are an improvement over the current homepage IMNSHO. That being said however, every change you all have made to your site so far has been for the better, so I'm sure I can roll with this one.

Just make it shiny 'K?

[alfredo]

82. I hate it alredy.

Maybe I will like it after my morning tea.


Maybe not.


Oh wait..... I haven't seen it yet.


never mind.

[seabeyond]

83. dont care. your site. i adjust to change. whatever yawl want n/t

[mntleo2]

84. In My 50's And Not Skeerd Of Change...

However I did not see much difference in your new designs. They all looked alike to me. Perhaps being an old fart means you lose all sense of detail, lol.

I am just so damn glad you are here in Internet Land that you could design it cowpoop-brown and I would still be tickled.

Wish I could be more help but...hey I am old, what can I say?

Cat In Seattle

[ElboRuum]

86. ...We know that many of you are very resistant to change...

Progressives resistant to change...

Talk about yer cognitive dissonance...

:silly:

[Sunkiss BlueStar]

87. Its an Index

I still can find what I'm looking for. but What is wrong with the opener now its great n perfect and you cant fix great n perfect.

[rman]

88. I really think that the DU frontpage as a Progressive News page

with articles selected by DU members, as it is now for the most part, is a very good feature.

[salin]

89. I generally use the front page as a pass through

to the forums. I glance around - sometimes stop and read. Generally though I am staight to the lobby and then to LBN. As long as it is a quick click for me to continue my style of DUing - I am happy :D

[vard28]

90. This could be the end...

... of my DU viewing (what little bit I actually still CAN see) while I'm at work. Last year I was able to navigate to any page/discussion/thread on DU's site. Sometime shortly after the end of the first quarter of this school year, the only thing I was able to read was the DU home page. Once I clicked to go to discussion forums, that nasty old school district filter stopped me in my tracks.

The reason was for, now get this... "sexual content", no matter WHAT thread I tried to read. :wtf:

After being revived from severe withdrawal symptoms, I still had the presence of mind to see what would happen if I went to similar sites but of the "other" political mindset. Gee, here's a coincidence; I had access to any and ALL pages, message boards, etc. for those sites. :grr:

A co-worker of mine (also a faithful DU member) and I think that a tech at one of our schools was pissed off that we spent our piddling half hour lunch breaks hungrily devouring the REAL news and complained to someone who had pull.

I'm going to keep my chin up and not start pouting quite yet until I see if the changes block me out completely. If it does happen, I beg all of you who will still be able to freely visit the site during the hours of 7:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m., M-F, to have happy thoughts about those of us who can't.

I have already decided that my after work grocery stops will just have to be rescheduled to the 11:00 p.m. timeslot when the fake news is on.

Backtracking and high gas prices be damned! :rant:

[wizdum]

91. I find the present homepage colorfully inviting, but change is unavoidable

I am looking forward to seeing the new design. The journals are a great idea. I am enjoying reading them and adding to mine whenever possible.

[tabasco]

92. DISAPPROVED !

Daggone it, just as soon as I get used to something, somebody has to get all creative and change it around!

Nice work, friends. The site is outstanding and I'm sure you won't mess it up.

[senseandsensibility]

93. I really enjoy the homepage as it is.

It is so far ahead of all the other sites out there, and incredibly easy to use. It's both functional and visually appealing. It's also unique. I know it's your decision, and I haven't complained about any of your other changes, but please consider whatever you do carefully. I use the discussion forums more than anything else, and am concerned that they become less user friendly or appealing to others, since their success depends upon attracting new posters. Well, since I've never said so before: thanks for the great site, which is currently excellent. Perhaps you don't realize how great it is?

[Haole Girl]

94. Sounds great to me

Of course, it's all new to me anyway. ;-)

[msongs]

95. looks like the forum page to me nt