Greatness. What is your definition of the word in terms of presidents?

[Pryderi]

Is Bush considered great because he is effective?

[kurth]

1. Many criminals are very effective

and brutal in their criminal acts.

[BOSSHOG]

2. I find him neither

Must listen to a variety of opinions from experts on issues and then make a decision - bush fails in that endeavor.

Must understand when one has failed, be willing to admit it and change course - bush fails in that endeavor.

Listen, listen, listen - once again bush fails.

Have people want to seek you out for leadership and advice and cooperation - failure once again

There is absolutely nothing great about bush but his failures and I don't see him being effective at anything positive. This is not a liberal perspective this is just the damn truth.

[Minnesota Libra]

3. Yes, GREAT at dismantling our Constitution in 5 yrs, but great...........

....isn't the same as good either.:puke:

[WI_DEM]

4. Who thinks he's great?

[sam sarrha]

5. those that made decisions for the People and fought to make it work

against the tyranny of Corporations and the ultra rich with no conscience or shame who cause so much suffering to support their OCD greed mental illness.

[napi21]

6. Shrub will NEVER be considered GREAT, even by his supporters!

I consider a President GREAT who accomplishes something that makes the USA a better Country, like Lyndon Johnson passing the anti discrimination legislation, or Rosevelt passing SS to save seniors from starvation in their older years. Even Jack Kennedy because he had the ability be bring most people in the country together, mostly with his challenge to reach the Moon.

[Selatius]

7. Bush is effective in that he changed the course of US history

I think his reign as president is a watershed moment in US history and most likely world history as well.

If what he has done is not completely reversed or is only partially reversed, then I would mark the Bush-Cheney presidency as the first presidency where the power of the US truly begins to fade, where the US is seen by everybody as a superpower in decline, and the balance of world power begins shifting away from the US towards nations like China, India, and the EU.

I have a hunch the damage Bush has wrought cannot be completely undone.

[Pryderi]

11. Nice insight! Maybe the balance of power shifting to other countries will

be a good thing in the long run. It would require future presidents to cooperate with other countries.

[Faygo Kid]

8. Grace, honesty, commitment, caring, insight, integrity under pressure

Thoughtful intelligence and the ability to inspire helps, too. Also a willingness to take responsibility for their actions, and to change course when necessary. Giving the other guy the benefit of the doubt, humility, a profound appreciation and understanding of history. Leadership that inspires respect. Being a good judge of others' character. A willingness to compromise, but steadfastness when core principles are involved. A sense of humor. Think Washington, Lincoln, FDR. W. is the worst president in American history, and it's no longer close.

[niyad]

9. in what, prithee tell, is that bumbling jackass EFFECTIVE???

[Pryderi]

10. Getting his policies passed. You can't say he hasn't been effective

[A Simple Game]

12. By being as poor as he is * has set the greatness bar so low

that almost any other President could qualify as great in comparison.

Kidding, but just a little bit.

Edit: for clarity

[XemaSab]

13. Willingness to pursue bold solutions, and the grace

to try something different if the first idea doesn't work out.

[Pryderi]

14. Wouldn't that be considered "flip-flopping"?

[Joe Fields]

15. In contextual terms, using the word "great", when

talking about a presidency, it is in reference to the idea that a president has helped the country, and left it in better shape than those presidents preceeding him. FDR, as opposed to Hoover, is a prime example of the definition of "great" when talking about a presidential legacy.

[Cyrano]

16. There is a world of difference between greatness and effectiveness.

Jack the Ripper was effective. Ted Bundy was effective. John Wayne Gacy was effective. George W. Bush is effective.

Greatness? Applying this term to Bush is akin to calling the black plague of the middle ages "great." I believe that the word greatness implies acting, in some way for the betterment of humanity.

Sometimes, some really shitty people can turn out to be "great." Thomas Edison and Henry Ford were bigots and anti-semites, yet their contributions led to a better life for most people. So I guess that the term "greatness" can be rather slippery.

But for sure, I can't see how the small, inadequate man in the White House makes the cut by anyone's definition.

On edit: Sorry, Pryderi. I reread your original post and saw that you limited the word "greatness" to presidents. Sorry I got carried away.