Get Rid of Sports

[Britethorn]

Run time: 03:12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXl3ruQuMpQ   Posted on YouTube: June 28, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: June 28, 2009 By DU Member: Britethorn Views on DU: 4354

 
Want to know how to balance those school budgets in these tough economic times? Get rid of the athletic programs.

[loveable liberal]

1. I hate Music, Art, Math, Social Sciences, Languages and Science

Just think of all the money we could save by not educating or training anyone. I gladly would 'waste' tax money on schools over weapons any day of the week.

If you want to save money we need a public health care plan. F**king healthcare administrators MAKE PROFITS ON ILLNESS. This guys rant is useless. Oh, and I didnt bother to listen to it all.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DWilliamsamh]

10. Actually neither did I.

As soon as I realized this was going to be nothing more than a rant based on the guy's wounded ego from childhood I stopped. I feel no obligation to listen to the emotional blatherings of someone working out issues from their personal childhood trauma. Therapists get paid to listen to this kind of whining devoid of reasoning.

A reasoned approach might have got more respect.

[Britethorn]

13. Wounded Ego

I had no childhood trauma --other than that by being born and raised on the North Side of Chicago and watching the Cubs go down in flames over and over again. We as a nation spend WAY too much time watching sports, talking about them, reading about them and obsessing about them. And then there are the "sports heroes" who we set up as gods for our children to worship -- all while they're running around getting away with murder because of that hero worship.

[lakercub]

27. don't tell people what to like...or how much to like it

"We as a nation spend WAY too much time watching sports, talking about them, reading about them and obsessing about them."

Oh stuff it. Lots of people love sports for great reasons. It has brought people together who might never have come together. I still have friends from high school athletics I may never have met if it wasn't for the practices and the games. I loved sports then and I love them now.

I love to watch the Lakers, the Cubs, the Broncos, pro cycling, and the CU Buffs. It is always something for me to look forward to. My children are starting to like sitting and watching with me which is making it even more enjoyable. My father and I have a great relationship and sports has always been a part of it. Neither of us are athletic...just big sports fans who like to get together to watch the games. We still have plenty of time to take care of our families, work, follow politics and the news, etc. Most every sport fanatic I know is reasonably well adjusted and is in no way screwing up themselves, their family, or their lives. Of course their are some massively obsessed people who will make a mess of things, but that happens with any interest or any hobby.

Many people like organized professional sports...you don't. Get over it. There is nothing wrong with your dislike of organized sports, but there is something wrong with your dislike of other people liking organized sports. I will spend as much time as I want to watching, reading, talking about, and enjoying sports no matter how much you disapprove. Your disapproval doesn't make you right...just obnoxious.

[DWilliamsamh]

73. In your OPINION

Which you are pronouncing as if it is some holy writ. You are entitled to you opinion - but not to spout it as if it is an immutable fact, without challenge. The fact of the matter is, although lots of people hate organized sports - as you correctly state - many times that number, here and around the world, do enjoy playing in, or merely following organized sports. You are in a distinct, minority and your posts come off as snobbery. You write as if you and those like you have discovered something "the masses" are just to thick and/or brain washed to understand. It leave a nasty taste in the mouth.

AND your endorsement of the elimination of sports, flies directly in the face of what is needed by kids in this country: physical activity as a tool to combat obesity. Mandatory gym has already been eliminated in mose school districts, and now you want to eliminate sports? Wow. Just wow.

[stlsaxman]

30. You should watch- it's as reasoned an approach as i've heard to date.

you do yourself and all the other jocks a grave dis-service! :hi:

[qazplm]

11. That's interesting

because what reminds me of a republican is attacking some activity merely because that person doesn't enjoy or understand it.

Nevermind that the vast majority of humans, not just Americans, humans, enjoy playing and following sports at some level.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

68. I saw it differently

because he was talking about public schools and the spending of public school time and money. "Pep" rallies were, in my day, a waste of time. Luckily, my high school was wise enough not to put extra money into sports. Academics was the stress--but then it wasn't exactly a public high school, either.

The thing I don't like about most public school's approach to athletics is that they don't attempt to help those who are inept to learn how to do anything--they concentrate only on those who are athletically gifted. If the point of public schools is to prepare the children for adulthood, I think this is a disservice. And I put my actions where my mouth is. When I had the opportunity in the 1980s to re-write the curriculum of PE in the schools, I argued for "lifetime activities"--teaching everyone how to do a variety of physical activities, with emphasis on helping those who were not as gifted as others. Team sports became an option, but they weren't the stress of PE. Didn't seem to make the win-loss averages different for the high school teams, btw, and made a lot of children feel better about themselves and in participating in various forms of exercise.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

67. The point to his rant was

that sports, by and large, did not train folks in marketable skills they would be able to use in adulthood. Case in point: the local school district just build a multi-million dollar sports complex. NONE of the graduates of that school have every played pro sports. NONE. Why not spend the money on, say, an up to date shop where high schoolers could learn to become mechanics, electricians, plumbers? Or have a computer lab where bookkeeping and typing skills can be learned more efficiently?

[DWilliamsamh]

74. Neither do art or music classes.

An even smaller number of people ever go on to make money from art or music than from professional athletics. I value ALL of these extra curricular. They ALL help create a well rounded more flexible adult. Body and mind are connected. I think it is a mistake to call for the elimination of "wasteful" programs that don't directly teach a "marketable skill."

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

80. beg to differ about the number of musicians and artists

who go professional. For example, in the local high school, none of the graduating classes have produced a pro athlete, yet there is at least one rock band that has been professional for decades and still is going strong, plus several artists, including local designers, graphic artists, and fine artists (there's a professional gallery in town). And this is a town of 12 thousand, not a large city.

But to take your argument at face value--I do agree that physical education is important, but ONLY if ALL students are exposed to and taught a variety of physical activities that they can enjoy through life. What is terribly wrong with most athletic departments take only the talented students and develop their talent, ignoring the needs of the typical student who is not physically adept. I would rather athletic money go to broader programs that help ALL students gain an appreciation for physical activity.

[DWilliamsamh]

81. If there is a physical education program

Then all students ARE a part of it - the athletics programs are a smaller subset of the larger phys. ed. program. Kind of like concert band is a smaller part of the music program. In both scenarios all students are exposed, and those who find the subject/activity compelling or interesting, or find that they are good at it, participate after school or during breaks in the extracurricular form. Why do you NOT see that some people's talents and/or interests are in team sports? And WHAT is the problem with supporting their talents as well as supporting the talents and/or interests of those in arts and drama, or the chess club? Why are you targeting the interests of one group for elimination? Just because YOU don't enjoy watching that activity? Would you be as perplexed as I am if I suggested "since I don't like H.S. bands, the concert and/or jazz band programs should be killed off?

I just don't get why you are targeting athletes.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

82. because in some school districts,

at least the ones where I worked, funds from PE were diverted to the athletic program. I was able to change that in one instance.

[DWilliamsamh]

87. Well then you should be fighting for more funding

--- not advocating the elimination of programing that is of vital importance to some students. Just as vital as art or drama is to some other students. But I notice you aren't attacking those programs. Your bias is showing.

[Wapsie B]

2. Wow, if anyone should hate sports it should be someone like myself;

last kid picked for the team if at all. But I love sports. Guy's a nut.

[Britethorn]

3. A nut?

There are a tremendous number of people out in the world who share my loathing for organized sports. Playing for fun and health is great. What good ever comes from sitting on your butt and watching other people run around? BORING!

[rep the dems]

17. So then why are you defending a guy who just thinks we should cut

out athletic programs? That IS playing for fun and health, not sitting and watching sports.

[Drunken Irishman]

38. He IS that guy.

[rep the dems]

41. Oh wow.

Well in that case...he seems to be backtracking just a bit.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

69. Athletic programs aren't physical education

In the PE program I helped design, we taught the children everything from jump rope to roller skating to bowling to aerobics. Oh yeah, and basketball, baseball, soccer, and football.

[Wapsie B]

28. Get over yourself.

[Drunken Irishman]

37. Then don't watch.

What good ever comes from going to the theatre? BORING!

[PassingFair]

5. I agree completely with the OP.

Especially with the "pep" rallies.

My daughter just graduated this year,
and I had NO QUALMS about signing her
out of school on the afternoons where
mandatory "pep rally" attendance was
required. Why should she have to waste
her time developing "spirit"?

My younger daughter, on the other hand,
LOVES the rallies, because it gets her
out of class...

Money spent on high school sports would
be better served in educational areas,
like a better choice in languages and
gifted and technical programs.

[rosesaylavee]

6. I agree but it's not going to happen.

The sports programs bring in revenue. Former Art/Theater kid here. Schools can't see how art/theater can make them any money - or not the sort that football and basketball bring in so the art programs are cut. Never knew a school to cut sports. But lots of things I never thought would happen are happening so who knows.

[Britethorn]

14. Funding

Indiana University (where my son is enrolled) has the best funded endowment in the Big Ten -- but it operates in the RED!!!! And they then turn to the student body and ask for a DOUBLING of the school's mandatory athletic fee??? So much for schools bringing in money.

[rosesaylavee]

24. Did not know that.

At the high school level, it brings in the bucks tho. Or as far as I have been told.

[prairierose]

79. They use accounting tricks to make it look like...

it pays for itself or breaks even. Coaches salaries are charged to other departments etc., the facilities are sold as benefiting other departments too but those departments can not get into the facilities. Those sports only benefit a few students, they do not teach all students the value of lifetime activities. More importantly, those sports take participating students out of class and school sometimes, 3 or 4 days a week. How much are they getting out of their academic classes when they are never there?

In other industrialized countries where they are serious about education, sports are an outside activity, as are all extra curricular activities. They are not part of school and students do not miss school to participate. the schools do not support them financially, tax dollars do not support them. The students who participate, pay to join the local soccer club or whatever. The students who are athletically gifted and their parents support the sport not the entire community.

[DaDeacon]

84. Lose on facts ....

OK name these "Countries" you speak of the UK publicly funded via the prep school, Japan same and later corporately funded (high school and college), and India public funded.

you said:

"In other industrialized countries where they are serious about education, sports are an outside activity, as are all extra curricular activities"

Name them or are you just talking out your a$$!

[HelenWheels]

70. There's not way they bring in enough money to cover the costs

Most sports, especially those that most think are "real" sports, don't come close to making enough money to cover the costs involved.

[madmom]

7. I live right beside a high school football field. I see sprinklers on in the middle

of rain storms, kids mowing the lawn instead of being in class,along with others stupid wastes of money and resources. One of my big gripes is school buses. We all see them carrying athletes, equipment, and band members from game to game,WHO pays for the gas? Who pays for the maintenance of said buses, Who pays for anything having to do with them while they are doing sports related affairs? Our football players have their own weight room full of state of the art exercise machines, who paid for that? I always hear the boosters pay for everything, but come on now I really find that hard to believe. I think this guy is right on mark here.

[Mythsaje]

8. "Oh, but sports encourage teamwork and good sportsmanship."

Hah. More like unbridled competition and rivalry based on geographic location. And, sure, they encourage teamwork up to the point someone makes a mistake and then, well, any loss is therefore that person's fault.

Sports are the NEW opiate of the masses.

[rep the dems]

21. That's just not true.

How often do you see athletes come out after a tough loss and say "Well we would have won if that guy hadn't screwed up. It was all his fault"? How often do they say things like "We lost this as a team, there were lots of things we could have done better"?

As for the rivalry and competition...you're making it out to be much worse than it is. Lots of athletes from rival teams develop mutual respect for each other and are often pretty good friends actually. And plenty of fans of rival teams see it as just a friendly rivalry in the spirit of fun.

[Drunken Irishman]

39. That doesn't play into the DU narrative.

Where sports are evil and anyone who plays them are evil warmongers.

I've seen it for years.

Sports offer nothing. Nothing at all.

It's primitive and should be abolished because it teaches nothing to anyone.

For being such an open-minded bunch here on DU, I'm always appalled at how easy some members here buy into stereotypes.

Like athletes are nothing more than dumb, competitive jocks.

Forget that many of these kids are poor and sports keeps them off the street. Or that the discipline actually forces them to work harder in class to keep up good grades (but I'm sure they believe many of these athletes get special treatment). Or that they might have an avenue to college, which wouldn't be there without sports.

None of that matters to them. They'd rather abolish sports and force these kids to sink than concede sports offers more than just entertainment.

[rep the dems]

45. Absolutely agree with everything you said.

I've been a DUer for a while now and I enjoy visiting this site for the most part, but I too am often disappointed at how small-minded people here can be. If you want to argue that education should come first, fine. But don't go around making such extreme arguments about subjects you (not you personally of course)seem to know next to nothing about.

[Mythsaje]

50. Oh, right, because someone who doesn't like sports

and thinks they're a waste of time, energy, and money can't POSSIBLY know anything about them.

[rep the dems]

56. Not what I said at all. nt

[Mythsaje]

49. I've thought sports was a waste of time long before DU...

And those people who actually enjoy watching them are fucked in the head. Who else can justify paying people tens of millions of dollars to PLAY A FUCKING GAME? How about when the voters say "no" to a new stadium yet, somehow, are roped into paying for one anyway? Real democratic, that.

Not to mention the lawlessness rampant in professional sports. A lot of these people think they're above the law, or that it shouldn't apply to them. Talk about a sense of entitlement. Hyper-aggressive 'roid users are held up as role-models for our kids, and then everyone acts shocked when they do something anti-social.

PLAYING sports is one thing. That often has some value, if the atmosphere is right. But half the coaches out there are failed jocks themselves with something to prove, so the things they teach the kids aren't something they should be learning. Most (male) jocks and armchair jocks are ultra-macho misogynists who are lucky to string two words together into a coherent sentence without cue cards. They're a tremendous waste of school resources better spent on real education... Of COURSE Johnny can't read, he's too busy trying to bang the cheerleaders to care.

[Drunken Irishman]

52. I hope you don't watch movies, either.

What a dull life you must lead.

[Mythsaje]

59. Movies (and books) require IMAGINATION...

Something that sports do NOT supply or require.

[Drunken Irishman]

65. I guess you haven't seen a Michael Bay movie.

[rep the dems]

57. Thanks for proving what we were saying about small mindedness.

At least you admit that you look down on people with different interests than you. That counts for something...I guess.

[Mythsaje]

58. That particular interest?

Hell, yeah. What a worthless distraction.

[rep the dems]

62. Go back to Free Republic. nt

[DWilliamsamh]

76. And your opinion about those who like sports would be qualitatively different how?

How would the quality of your opinion on this be different in tone from someone who says something on the order of, "Guys who sing in choirs are all fags?" Or "Only geeks play in jazz band? What a waste of time?"

Oh I know, because you are "right," to think that way, and they are "wrong" and stupid to boot.

[DWilliamsamh]

75. Wow... talk about generalizations. That was worthy in tone of the best anti-imigrant rants.....

All you had to do was add a couple "those peoples." I think you would burst a blood vessel if I spewed a comparable list of stereotypical, not to mention untrue, "facts" about artists, or musicians, or god forbid chemists.

[DWilliamsamh]

9. Ok I know this is immature: Want some cheese with that wine?

The vid is just as immature as that response. Get over it! Weren't a jock in HS? Awe poor baby. No one cares. Just like no one cares about the athletic accomplishments of those jocks - once their past the age of about oh...19 or so.

Oh and believe it or not: those couple hundred other kids around you screaming their heads off at the pep rallies and the games that followed DID like sports and didn't find the whole thing a tedious waste of time. You did. Maybe your friends did as well. But that doesn't "everyone" did. Just like not "everyone" thought band was for "dorks," just because some Neanderthal 15 year olds who thought they were the height of "manly" said so.

Get rid of sports in public schools? Yeah - that will really help the obesity problem in this country. Ever notice that the problem exploded right around the time mandatory gym classes K-12 were axed? And you are suggesting removing the one last method of exercise many of these kids have available? Really? Man what a joke.

[Britethorn]

18. Rallies

If the Rallies were so great, why do they make them mandatory? How many people would have shown up if they had held them after school?

Thanks for the personal attack, by the way! High Road all the way!

[Drunken Irishman]

36. I don't know what school you attended, but ours were never mandatory.

And we didn't have pep rallies.

We had a thing called spirit week and rally that went beyond just sports.

So don't just assume every school is like the one you imagined.

[DWilliamsamh]

71. Rallies

I never attended a "mandatory rally." I truly wish you had gone to a better school. Mandatory would seem to defeat the purpose. I grant you that. But hmmmm...are you saying at these rallies you went to, the vast majority of students were sitting on their hands and showing no interest in being there? Because that would seem the only basis upon which you could have reached the conclusion that everyone thought they were a waste of time. If that wasn't the case, where you and your buddies the only ones that had the balls to show your disdain, while everyone else was behaving as sheep and doing what was "expected" of them?


Oh and I didn't personally attack you. I also did not personally attack the person in the video (assuming you aren't the one in the video). I made an assessment of his rant. I made a judgment (based in logic) of the inaccuracy of the rant and the possible motivations behind it.

[Drunken Irishman]

12. I have issues with this.

Firstly, for many schools, the athletic program actually brings in money. Whether it's through ticket sales to non-students, refreshment sales, bake sales, fundraisers or other events, it certainly is a bigger cash cow than other programs. Obviously, though, this depends on the size of the high school, but for larger schools, it can be a boon.

Secondly, for those smaller communities, often the football/basketball programs of each high school becomes the pride and joy of a lifeless community. It might sound trivial, but for many -- especially in depressed towns of the rust belt, it offers some enjoyment. What's so bad about that?

Thirdly, and most importantly, it offers a chance for those who may never get it. It's no different than the art and music classes. Sports take kids off the street. Sports give kids a chance to earn a scholarship to a university or college.

How many inner-city youths are helped by sports at both the high school and college level? These are kids who would be lost without them and sports offers them a lifeline.

Look at what Pete Carroll has been able to do in Las Angeles with the youth there. They are prone to joining gangs and resorting to violence, but he's been essential in changing much of the landscape in parts of LA (let's remember, USC is located right in the heart of Gang Country).

Sports don't have to be a bad thing.

Especially when you realize it gives so many kids who would never have had a chance just that...a chance.

[PassingFair]

15. Boys....gives so many BOYS that chance, not girls as a rule.

Many schools were finally FORCED to
pay lip service to girl's sports by
Title IX, but I don't see many boy
cheerleaders in high schools rooting
for the girl's basketball team.

Scholarships are not awarded for
sports on an equal basis, either.

Academics should always come first.

[Drunken Irishman]

19. That isn't the issue we're talking about, though.

And I agree.

However, let's not kid ourselves here. Boys are more likely to turn to a life of crime on the street than girls. It's just the way it is.

Football and basketball offer these boys a chance to make it in life.

It does not excuse the lack of support for female sports (they shouldn't be paid lip service and I agree), but that shouldn't also excuse damning an entire program (whether for boys or girls), either.

[PassingFair]

20. There's still no way I'm going to make my girls sit through "pep rallies"...

if they don't want to.

To much idolizing for me, and
too much US vs. THEM mentality.

I don't like that part, either.

[Drunken Irishman]

23. I'm not talking pep rallies.

And in my HS, where I graduated a few years ago, I never attended pep rallies.

In fact, I don't even remember pep rallies.

We had spirit week, but that involved more than just sports. They had dances, singing and other stuff.

[DWilliamsamh]

72. Um...never heard of women's sports scholarships?

Title 9 makes an equal number mandatory. That isn't lip service. And if, as you say, academics should always come first: should there be no music scholarships? No arts Scholarships?

[Britethorn]

16. Money

The problem with all the after school athletic programs is that the vast majority of kids who use them never get any sort of a useful skill (life or otherwise) out of it. They'd be WAY better off if we got them after school jobs or programs that left them with something in their heads that would last them a lifetime, as opposed to the damage they do to their bodies with all the contact sports and unnatural repetitive movements which leave them with lifelong health problems.

[Drunken Irishman]

22. Then let's just scrap everything.

And make school solely about education.

Who needs drama?

Who needs art?

Who needs music?

Who needs dance?

Who needs any of it?

I see your point, but I think you're wrong. Many kids who are on the football and basketball teams have summer and after school jobs. Many also won't make it to college without an athletic scholarship.

Hell, they might not even attend school if it weren't for sports.

But that's ok, I guess.

[stlsaxman]

31. It would as great as you say it is if athletic programs taught children how to think.

I mean really important CRITICAL thinking. It does not. In this way it is VERY different from the art and music classes- THINKING takes kids off the streets. Sports only teaches them to buy a big lie that they can be a BIG STAR some day through football or basketball.

[Drunken Irishman]

33. lol

So force them into music? Force them into art? All because you don't see the worth of sports? Well I don't see the worth of music. I took music in junior high and hated it. I thought it was boring, lame and wanted no part of it.

I also coached high school football and I can tell you most kids are resigned to the fact they won't make it. Their dream is probably to play COLLEGE BALL, not pro ball. They realize it's unlikely they'll ever make a pro team.

But they can work for a scholarship and actually attend college, which seemed improbable only years before because they were poor, often minority students.

So your answer is to throw them in music or art classes and hope they take to that.

And if they don't?

Let 'em sink?

Face it, sports offer a lifeline to thousands of kids who most likely would never have it.

People go into art because they ENJOY art. People go into music because they ENJOY music. Most go into sports because they ENJOY sports.

Many of those people are black or minorities who are poor and wouldn't make it without sports. You can suggest art or music or dance or whatever, but if they're not interested in that -- just as I'm sure you'd dislike someone forcing you to join the football team -- it won't ever work out.

I see no difference here, except many on DU seem to have disdain for anything sports related.

As if they're above it.

When in reality, they're not.

Do away with sports and you must also do away with music and dance and art and all the other programs that don't directly teach you anything.

You can make all the justifications you want about the art programs, but in the end, it's just as unlikely the person who takes an art or music class will actually use that in their adult life.

[stlsaxman]

40. have you heard about Jose Antonio Abreu founding El Sistema (the system)?

Please watch this talk by a gentleman who developed a music school program that is quite literally changing the children of his country Venezuela...

http://www.ted.com/talks/jose_abreu_on_kids_transformed_by_music.html

If half the funding were put into an American version of The System we could change generations for the better.

[Drunken Irishman]

42. That's fine for people who like music.

But not everyone has the talent or need to go into music.

Or art, or theatre.

That's the problem with your basic premise. You might not find value in football, but it is there. You just have to move beyond stereotypes and ignorance.

Just because you don't like sports or don't find value does not mean it isn't important or needed for many students.

And if you cut ties with sports programs at high schools, it ends the possibility for thousands of students to attend college.

Because many don't have the means to get in.

Don't just assume kids who play sports are dumb or violent or in it for the money. That isn't the case. Many kids realize they'll never make it big, but it is something they love to do. It is their life and it does offer them something other than a life of crime.

Many also are extremely disciplined and keep up good grades and probably would not be able to do that if it weren't for sports. Because, as it is with all those school programs, it offers a foundation.

Without it, many are lost in the quicksand of teenage life.

It isn't easy being a teen. It's even worse when you're poor and living in the ghetto or your parents work at night and you have nothing to fall back on. A football or basketball team is a family. It's a family to the kids who may not have a family. It teaches the kids to rely on one another and to work as a team (weird, I know!). Yes there are flaws, but those flaws are far less than the flaws of allowing a child to fall into gang life or denying them a chance to succeed because you've taken away their only outlet.

Music isn't for everyone.
Art isn't for everyone.
Dance isn't for everyone.
Theatre isn't for everyone.
Sports isn't for everyone.

But together, they all offer something.

[stlsaxman]

43. Did you watch his talk? He addresses the very thing you feel needed for children of poverty...

and no- music isn't for everyone, but raising a teen's sense of self worth and feeling of a place in society that is valid... however it's done- is crucial here.

Sports programs are thriving in private HS and Colleges... Arts and Music are nowhere to be found- except where funded by bake sales and begging for grants...

you are correct- together they all offer something- so where's the funding for the arts?

I'm getting really depressed now...

on edit: here is a "product" of El Systema... now conductor of the Los Angeles Philharmonic, back in Caracas- conducting his former classmates.

http://www.ted.com/talks/astonishing_performance_by_a_venezuelan_youth_orchestra_1.html

[Drunken Irishman]

46. I'm not attacking funding the arts.

I think it should be funded. But I don't believe you do that at the expense of sports.

Many sports programs at the high school level are self-sustained. They fund themselves through ticket sales and other avenues.

Cutting sports won't help the budget much.

[DWilliamsamh]

77. Some schools fund teh arts MORE than sports. Some fund sports more.

That is what happens when resources are limited. Instead of arguing to eliminate programs in favor of your personal favorites, why not argue more funding for all extracurriculars?

The school I graduated from (where I was allowed to be a member of sports teams and every chorus offered, and direct a play by Tennessee Williams) has proud tradition of athletic excellence producing professional athletes in three of the four major sports in this country over the last twenty years, and is also opening a dedicated performing arts facility next academic year. I look forward to seeing my baseball playing, guitarist/singer, budding veterinarian perform there soon. And at my 25th reunion just recently I discovered a couple of my classmates are professional painters and scuptors. Most years 100% of the students go onto higher education. What you, and so many here don't get is that offering MANY areas for kids to excel according to their talents and their passions, doesn't just produce "professional" (fill in your blank here). It produces students (and the adults they become) who have a passion for learning in all areas and more well rounded people, who have interests and talents beyond the cubicles that the vast majority of us will occupy. Sports are a PART of those offerings.

Arguing to reduce any aspect of that education is foolish and short sighted and more than likely self serving as well.

[DaDeacon]

83. Or it can teach....

Teamwork, cooperation, and social activity. Damn Sports. Really If you weren't any good @ sports I get it but don't hate. I played varsity for three teams (football, soccer, & golf) AND did drama, played three instruments and news paper. I loved playing sports as I like to test myself to become better! I would have hated my high school years without it. It helped me stay in great shape and form some great friendships.

[LostInAnomie]

25. He is talking straight out of his ass.

Pep rallies? He is honestly crying about kids being bored at pep rallies? Who the fuck cares? When I was in school, pep rallies got you out of class. I wanted a pep rally every day.

He sounds like a bitter, non-athletic kid all grown up, but still bitter that he didn't get the adoration he craved.

[Mythsaje]

51. Right, because that's why we went to school...

for sports-related nonsense to interfere with academics. Makes sense to me. Oh, wait.

[LostInAnomie]

53. Your right. Those kids will never get those 45 minutes a semester back.

Just think how different all our lives would be. I bet we'd all be doctors or super-scientists!

:eyes:

[Mythsaje]

60. 45 minutes a semester?

LOL.. More like an hour a month.

[LostInAnomie]

63. Geez, your right. That's like a whole 8 hours a year.

How are they supposed to learn anything when about 7 minutes a class are taken from them once a month?

[southernyankeebelle]

26. I AGREE I HATE SPORTS TOO - I USED TO LIKE WATCHING

THE OLYMPICS THAN THEY ALLOWED PROFESSIONALS TO PLAY. THEN TO FIND OUT THESE PEOPLE WIN MONEY WHEN THEY GET A MEDAL AND THAT LEAVES A BAD TASTE FOR SPORTS. I THINK THESE PEOPLE IN SPORTS ARE SO OVER PAID AND SO VERY SPOILLED. I DON'T WATCH ANY SPORTS.

[stlsaxman]

29. Fuck sports. It teaches nothing but "Win at all cost- and you are shit if you lose."

here in Amerika, anyways.

[LostInAnomie]

54. Well, that and good sportsmanship, team work, goal setting...

... respect for the community, leadership, physical fitness, self motivation, etc.

[Mythsaje]

61. Sure it does. Which is why so many former jocks are such useful citizens...

Oh, wait.

[LostInAnomie]

64. What a stupid and ignorant statement.

Millions of high school boys and girls play sports a year. I suppose that the majority of them are complete social degenerates, according to you? :eyes:

[DWilliamsamh]

78. Oh wait....

John Kerry, Barack Obama, John Kennedy, Jimmy Carter............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

[DaDeacon]

85. Yeah like the president. Your logic = FAIL! lol n/t

[BlooInBloo]

32. People in this thread are funny.

[bowens43]

34. All sports programs in public schools should be abolished. nt

[Drunken Irishman]

35. Along with music, dance, art, theatre...

Right?

[stlsaxman]

44. music, dance, art and theatre ARE abolished in public schools- by lack of funds.

[Drunken Irishman]

47. No they're not.

They haven't been abolished.

IT just depends on what school you attend.

And you also refuse to acknowledge the fact many athletic programs fund themselves, or a good bulk of their program.

So even abolishing those programs isn't going to do a damn good.

And in some cases, it might HURT the school.

[rep the dems]

48. Care to give a reasonable explanation for why you feel this way? nt

[SanchoPanza]

55. Ugh

Pep Rallies aside, athletic programs can lead to better results in the classroom, overall. The same is true with the arts. There are people in the world who actually think more clearly, and more critically, through movement.

People make the assumption that, if only we could pour some extra money into traditional academia in the public schools, students would perform better. Hate to break it to you, but while funding is an important factor in the success of schools, it certainly isn't the only factor. And there's a good deal of research that points to it being not the largest factor. Having schools that are culturally connected to the community they serve is the largest, and athletic programs can facilitate those kinds of connections. A well-funded school isn't going to function very well if significant portions of the student body don't want to be there, and who think that an education is something they are just there to receive, through osmosis, than a process in which they are encouraged to participate.

And basing any curriculum on a nebulous concept like "life skills" is short-sighted and naive. Most people can't even define what such a concept entails, let alone how it applies universally to every adult.

[DaDeacon]

86. Well said ! BEST POST !

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

66. My high school only had a basketball team

and we held the state record for the most losses--6 years, I think it was. No, sports wasn't stressed--academics were. I'm proud to say that among the alumni are some Nobel laureates, many many National Merit Scholars, and tons of professional folks. Oh, and George Will. Well, every school has its failures.

[osaMABUSh]

88. Way too much emphasis on HS athletics and 'scholarhips'

Nothing scholarly about playing HS football, basketball, soccer, etc. and then getting a free ride to college while kids in top 10% of their class might get a couple a grand from the Rotary club if they're lucky. Our scholarship programs are totally wacked. To get a meaningful academic scholarship you have to be in the top 1% and an Einstein while some C student kid whose parents made him play soccer since he was two gets a full ride (and by the way, he hates soccer now).

The whole 'scholarship' program is totally upside down.