Michael Moore on HCR: "We're Supposed to Accept 'It's Better Than Nothing' - It's a Travesty"

[Hissyspit]

Run time: 01:12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JANt55_qSBE   Posted on YouTube: March 12, 2010 By YouTube Member: mmflint Views on YouTube: 20   Posted on DU: March 12, 2010 By DU Member: Hissyspit Views on DU: 6172

 
CNN 360 w/ ANDERSON COOPER - 11 March 2010: Michael Moore on CNN's Anderson Cooper 360, March 11, 2010.

COOPER: "What do you think of the bill that's being debated now - the Senate version of the bill? Is it better than nothing?"

MOORE: "Well, that's where we're at right now in this country, right. We're just supposed to accept 'Well, it's better than nothing.' Is that who we are as Americans? I thought we were about 'We want the best.' We want to be able to do the best, be the best. This bill right now is, personally, it's a travesty, as far as I'm concerned, because it has nothing to do with universal health care.

Are there good things in the bill? Of course. You know, pre-existing condition..."

COOPER: "Pre-existing conditions..."

MOORE: "You know, all these things, yes. Everyone agrees on these things. And they could have just gone ahead and had a bill on that and passed it, and a bill on let parents keep their kids on their health insurance until they're 25, you know, things everyone can agree on, but...

But, President Obama and the Congress, they took office with the people - I think they were very clear, the public, during the campaign - that they expected universal health care in this country. They expected everybody to be covered; that we live in the best country in the world, and we're not acting like it.

Because we're, what are we now, #37 in terms of our health care? All the numbers, in fact, are so low when it comes to how we treat ourselves, when we're such a wealthy nation..."

[Rhiannon12866]

1. K&R. Great! Thanks for posting!

I also saw him with Rachel and Bill Maher. Guess he's making the rounds (his movie's out on DVD), which is always a good thing! :woohoo:

[CONN]

113. K&R

[rooftoprevolutionary]

2. choosing between two evils...

like people say at the polls...oh, i don't really like either candidate, but I'm choosing between two evils...

i have to agree with michael on this one. it's bullshit that we should accept this.

[DrDan]

3. Bravo

he must have spent some time reading the threads here

[NJmaverick]

4. how does being a film producer qualify Mr Moore in terms expertise of policy

or health care reform?

[marylanddem]

5. Because he made an incredible film about the need for health reform?

And because he is brilliant, articulate & speaks from his heart?

[NJmaverick]

18. those are pretty weak credentials

[girl gone mad]

52. now that's just intellectually dishonest. n/t

[Mithreal]

57. +1

[defendandprotect]

93. You mean you didn't like the information in the movie . . . the revelations . ..

I say "revelations" because MOST Americans actually had no idea of what

other nation's health care is like -- though quite a few Americans have

experienced it in living overseas for periods of time.

Michael Moore does a great job of breaking thru the right wing propaganda --

an even the propaganda of "it's too hard to do . . . " by our Democratic president!!

[Donnachaidh]

105. yeah, that OSCAR WINNING DOCUMENTARIAN has pretty weak credentials

Some of these bots do seem to shoot up the koolaid straight into a vein. :sarcasm:

Awww -- he's pissing in the cornflakes of the corporate stooges who will have mandates to steal....WAAAHHHHHHHHHH...

pay per post is coming to an end :rofl:

[Donnachaidh]

106. Lie about people that can't be controlled?

Yet another republican tactic, adopted by corporate whores. :eyes:

[Mithreal]

49. +1 the mavericky one is immune and sees MM as a threat

same song different day

[Enthusiast]

82. +1

[Hissyspit]

6. Well, let's see, he made "Sicko," and also he pays attention.

Anyhow, he's got more credibility than certain posters here.

[Mithreal]

38. +1

[defendandprotect]

94. +1000% -- have to buy Capitalism next week when it goes on sale...and will buy SICKO, as well...

[Lerkfish]

7. ummm. what are YOUR qualifications?

[NJmaverick]

16. 15 Years working in not for profit hospitals, 24 years volunteering in the Emergency Medical Service

and over 5 years in public health.

[Lerkfish]

21. so you have a vested money interest in the insurance company gouging?

so you may be informed, but you have a conflict of interest.

[NJmaverick]

23. Wow, you couldn't possible be more incorrect if you tried

I work in PUBLIC health as in the GOVERNMENT. Prior to that I worked NOT FOR PROFIT for the entities insurance companies didn't want to pay and the EMS was provided free of change and insurance is meaningless.

Now I see the root of your extremely messed up positions, you create your own reality and facts to suit your agenda.

[Shining Jack]

68. You work in public health but what do you do ?

Your avatar is the picture of a Doctor,are you an M.D ? A registered nurse ? For what I know you may have been a Hospital cook or janitor for all those years.:shrug:

[Mithreal]

75. tv doctor

:rofl:

Thanks for asking about that avatar, I am still laughing.

[Donnachaidh]

109. bwahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!

:spray: :rofl:

[Jim Sagle]

71. And five bucks an hour as a DLC hogwash dispenser.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[defendandprotect]

95. ... and you're against MEDICARE FOR ALL?

[Donnachaidh]

107. *cough cough* insurance companies *cough cough*

:rofl:

[DrDan]

8. as qualified as anyone else to have an opinion

no one has a degree in this

[NJmaverick]

17. That's not correct, those in the health care field and public policy experts

would both be more qualified

[Lerkfish]

22. and also the people responsible for the mess we're in presently.

and therefore the worst people to make decisions on how to reform themselves.

[NJmaverick]

24. sorry to pop your conspiracy bubble but it was the lack of governmental oversight that created this

mess rather than some sinister plot by shadowy figures.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RaleighNCDUer]

28. So it's the government's fault that rapacious health insurance companies

and MBA driven HMOs have been looting the system for two decades - it's not THEIR fault, the government MADE them do it.

Those are the health care professionals you are talking about, right?

[NJmaverick]

30. See this is where EXPERIENCE makes a difference

For example if you were in health care long enough you would understand there was a time before HMOs when insurance companies were pretty much powerless. It was only when the governments allowed the creation of massive HMOs that insurance companies became a powerful entity in the health care field.

[RaleighNCDUer]

37. Maverick, that is EXACTLY like blaming the woman's short skirt for the rape.

With such an attitude it is not wonder you support the Insurance Company Protection Act of 2010.

[girl gone mad]

56. You sound like Ron Paul fanboy.

They blame all of our economic problems on government regulations, too.

[Mithreal]

76. Oh, part of a fan base, for sure.

[defendandprotect]

97. So it's the government's fault the HMO's ran away with the public's money...???

[Donnachaidh]

110. of course, the insurance companies BOUGHT enough reps to ensure the LACK of government oversight

Forget that little FACT, dear?

[Mithreal]

25. Yeah but you fall on the side of the compromised.

There are plenty of people in health care that are coming down on the wrong side on this one.

I have 5 people in my family that are in health care field and at the policy level as well.

[liberation]

50. Same here...

I am married to a surgeon, my sister is a pharmacist, and my mother was a clinical psychiatrist (not that any of that matters since anonymous posters giving references on the internet do not bind any sense of validation). And honestly, I can't say I have heard them say a single positive thing the for profit health care system they have to work under. The worst is my sister, who has to work as a pharmacist, while at the same time having to deal with insane overhead dumped on them by insurance companies. There is nothing worse than having to deal with trying to help a sick person, and then having to be the bearer of bad news when some jackass in a cubicle somewhere decides the medication is not covered for whatever random reason... while having to be belittled and insulted by desperate patients who are in their last throes.

In fact, there is a reason why pharmacist, surgeons, and other medical professionals are at the top of the list in regards to alcoholism, broken marriages, and other sorts of fun things they have to deal with. If you are a mildly humane person, you have to drawn your conscience in alcohol just to continue operating under this f*cked up system. I can't tell you the times I have to hurry home, so I can get there and make sure there is a nice martini waiting for my better half so she can cope and decompress from the hellish grinder she is put through on a daily basis. I can't count the times she has broken down on my shoulder and weep. But then, she is one of those silly souls who went to the medical field with the silly notion of wanting to help her fellow human being...



Anyone defending our current profit-driven health system either lacks first hand experience with it, or lacks any basic human decency and empathy. It is destroying the lives of patients, and it is destroying the lives of those medical professionals who care... all in the name of making a few corporations incredibly wealthy. It is nuts....

[Mithreal]

54. well said

:cry:

[Enthusiast]

84. Nice post! nt

[olegramps]

83. Why don't you list your credentials?

I have no problem in listing my academic qualifications. I have a B.S. degree in chemistry with a minor in math and M.S. in E.E. May I add that I can't spell worth a shit.

[defendandprotect]

96. ... and they are for single payer -- MEDICARE FOR ALL ...

[Donnachaidh]

108. *public policy experts* translates to insurance companies

No wonder the levels of shrill are becoming close to audible for dogs. :rofl:

[Hissyspit]

11. And he's not just a "producer."

He was trained as a journalist.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. Perhaps by the years of study and investigation needed to be an

investigative film maker?

BTW, he's not just a 'producer' - he's not a money man or deal maker. He is an investigative reporter who directs his own films, and he does a huge amount of his own footwork. He has been an investigative journalist for 30 years.

You've posted on healthcare issues. What makes YOU an expert?

[NJmaverick]

20. That certainly doesn't trump those with decades in health care fields

or those with decades of experience making public policy

[Mithreal]

26. And you certainly represent those in that field who I respect.

:sarcasm:

[Caretha]

59. Once again

you have been out voted. No one believes (except possible your #1 fan, you) that you know more than anyone/someone else. It is time to sit down, close your clapper and listen. You are 180 degrees wrong and yet you persist in believing whatever your frail mind fractures.

[Mithreal]

62. Did you mean to reply to me?

[Caretha]

64. No, so sorry Mithreal

please excuse.

[Mithreal]

66. Alrighty, glad I edited. I usually try to understand where another

person sorta is when I respond, was looking at other stuff you wrote and realized it must have been an error.

I do it often enough, have a good one.

[Hissyspit]

34. Many people with decades in health care fields and decades of experience making public policy

think this is an awful bill.

[NJmaverick]

36. Yet many more think this is a good solid bill

[Mithreal]

41. link please

[defendandprotect]

98. Yep -- the insurance companies and Big Pharma certainly do -- !!!

Great give-away by their pals Obama/Rhama . . .

There is no need for private interests in our health care system --

anymore than than we need private mercenaries like Blackwater/KBG, etal --

Health care "for profit" is as deviant and destructive as war by mercenaries.

[Mithreal]

114. +1

[fascisthunter]

44. Ouch!

well stated

[Mithreal]

45. Should have seen what was here before the mods came

[liberation]

48. Well, I am seeing a clear bias by the mod cleaning crew in this thread.... that's for sure

Good grief.

[Mithreal]

77. Same, agreed, not the first time I noticed either

I didn't want to respond while I was still irritated.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

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[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tinrobot]

31. How does being a Senator qualify someone?

It my experience, it usually doesn't.

[NJmaverick]

32. It doesn't but they work with experts who assist them in creating and understanding

policy

[Hissyspit]

33. And they're corrupted by campaign contributions. Next?

Michael Moore has assitants, too, by the way.

[NJmaverick]

35. Assistants are not the same as policy experts

[ProfessorPlum]

40. You mean like "policy experts" who are lobbyists for the healthcare industry?

In that case, I'd say assistants are even better.

[Caretha]

60. Policy ..schmolicy experts..

pshaw! Silly boy. I'm an expert too, just ask me.

[defendandprotect]

99. Too often they're also "assisted" by insurance and big pharma. . .

and aides with connections to these for profit corportions --

just like the Senators -- Baucus being one of the most heavily bought out and

pre-bribed!!!

[sasquuatch55]

111. Bad Policy!

na

[Dr.Phool]

92. Especially if his name is Dr. Tom Coburn.

His true calling was a stable cleaner.

[pundaint]

42. It's about what he is saying, not who he is - do you disagree with his point?

In Rhetoric Class we learn about logical fallacies - yours would be the ad hominem fallacy

[girl gone mad]

51. How does posting on the internet all day long for months on end..

qualify one in terms expertise of criticism of Moore's opinions on policy or health care reform?

:shrug:

[Caretha]

58. Let's reverse that

what makes you? :crazy:

[Mithreal]

63. .

delete, think I misunderstood

[olegramps]

81. How about that he is a citizen.

[defendandprotect]

91. How are you qualified to judge Michael Moore . . . ?

What qualifies Obama when he is pre-bribed and pre-owned by insurance companies?

Are you for real?

[pleah]

9. K&R

[xchrom]

10. Recommend

[kmac3]

14. K & R

That is what they are assuming .... most are not in agreement. I will not consider accomplishment of Health Care Reform from this president unless it includes Public Option. That was one of his campaign promises.
The next best thing is Grayson's attempt to pass the right to buy into Medicare ... kill the thousand page monster that continues to protect health insurers, pharmacy corporations, and gives a few disgruntled states some special relief to get their vote.
:wtf:

[DrDan]

15. and you would be correct, imo

it is nothing more than "expanded" health care unless a minimum of a PO is included. It is certainly not reform.

[ProgressOnTheMove]

43. Michael Moore is great but yeah don't have to accept it we can accept a bigger disaster by not ...

acting. It's a hard choice but leaving it all to emergency care just leads to cost elsewhere so at a least puts a bandaid on things.

[Mithreal]

46. Save that argument for your door knocking and phone calls after it is signed.

Maybe that sounded harsher than I intended.

Let me see if I can soften it.

When it comes to our representatives casting their final votes on whatever comes out of the final fight, then I think that is fair. Until that time, it is our responsibility to push as hard as we can to ensure as much as is people powered possible that it is more than a bandaid.

Preparing us for disappointment and settling for "Better Than Nothing" are not persuasive or good strategy.

http://whipcongress.com/

-and-

Get your rep to sign on to Grayson's medicare buy in for all.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7897846

LIST OF TOLL FREE CONGRESS SWITCHBOARD PHONE NUMBERS ty to orleans

1-800-828-0498

1-800-459-1887

1-800-614-2803

1-866-340-9281

1-866-338-1015

1-866-220-0044

1-877-851-6437

[ProgressOnTheMove]

79. Very, very true. Definitely not giving up till the fine lady sings.

[GreenTea]

47. That's what they count on, toss some crumbs our way & say take it or leave it and

we are so desperate we always take it.

They are quite aware of this, it's why Obama never really fought for the public option, and now the congress has just taken the public option out of their bill, the much needed public option was never in the senate bill, nor will it be in the final bill...What a shame...but they know we'll take it, or anything else they toss us.

Obama & the Dems don't want to upset their gravy train, the insurance corporations too much...they'll just give us some shit bill and call it "reform"....while keep receiving those insurance corporations bucks.

[defendandprotect]

100. And evidently the "crumb-givers" are to be worshipped . . ..

while we are given the pretense they just can't figure out how to do

health care with insurance and big pharma!!!


Right now ... in the United States a woman is more likely to die from pregnancy

or in childbirth than 40 other countries."


Also keep in mind that Catholics want health care -- by government

and they want it to include reproductive health care -- including birth control and

abortion.

Our birth control these days is getting too expensive for young women to be able to

afford it -- while "AO" -- Abstinence Only -- programs are draining hundreds of millions

of $$$ from taxpayers and have utterly failed!!!

Where is Obama addressing these problems??

They're treating abortion like a GOP sacred cow -- and it looks to me like they are

lining up to switch sides on that issue!!

[motorcityliberal]

53. Here's the problem I had with Moore and other rich lefties

Don't get me wrong I respect Michael Moore but here's the problem I have with rich liberals like him, they know what the problem is we have a shitty corporate media,we have Repugs masking as Democrats and we have a nasty,loud, venomous right wing media but instead of doing something they want to be professional shit throwers and hold onto their wallets. They should take some of those millions and invest in strong liberal media, active progressive groups or liberal think tanks.

I know the excuse is well they could use that money for their chosen candidates and help them to win, how are they're going to win when most political talk stations slant to the right and the corporate media won't set the record straight? Moore and other wealthy progressives should do what their wealthy right wing counterparts have done build an infrastructure that get the message out, push the issue and elected like minded Democrats that would do more for the progressive community than make movies or whatever.

[Mithreal]

55. -1 Not buying it. Agree with some of your sentiment but this guy is stand up.

Look for another target.

[Caretha]

61. You need to re-think that

He has credentials. He gets "free" air time. And guess what else, when he gets free air time he's fighting for all sorts of imbeciles that don't even know it. Have a nice day :).

[olegramps]

85. It seems to me that what you want him to do, he is doing.

He is getting national exposure on a daily bases. The freepers hate it.

[defendandprotect]

101. Come on... you're blaming MM for the prevalance of right wing media???

Michael is using documentaries as his liberal media to wake up the public -- !!!

[slipslidingaway]

65. Do not say Universal Health Care ...

Some talking points from the Herndon Alliance and published on the Third Way site...
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/slipslidingaway/63


"Don’t say “universal” health care. Talk about “quality, affordable health care for
all.” (But remember—quality, affordable health care for all is largely a message
about access.)"

The word universal HC has been missing for a long time.

[colsohlibgal]

67. I'm With Michael

My head tells me that no public option has more to do with lobbying cash than the votes not being there - because I think they are. As others have said, they had 50 back when they were saying they couldn't get to 60, 50 would be no problem.

I just bought his new movie about capitalism and as usual it makes you want to march on DC the next day.

[Jefferson23]

69. K&R for Michael

[flyarm]

70. Thank you Michael..for not selling us out!! eom

[neuvocat]

72. He would have said the same of SSI.

Not to mention the Civil Rights legisltion passed under LBJ's watch. No matter how far-reaching or how much a piece of legislation is, it can never, ever be good enough.

[olegramps]

86. Don't you think that the so-called Public Option is a major issue?

President Obama stated time and time again that without a strong Public Option that the health care insurance companies would continue to escalate the cost of medical services. I would not only like to see them have a viable option, but in reality be totally put out of business. They add absolutely nothing of value to the system. Absolutely Nothing. They nothing more than a middle man that collects a fee for rejecting claims.

[defendandprotect]

102. What nonsense . . . you want health care "reform" with no public option . . . ???

This isn't even bread crumbs!!

MEDICARE FOR ALL --

[Barbara2423]

73. Unfortunately we can not wave our hands and get universal

health care. We have to go through the congress and very few people thought we would get universal health care. Now, Grayson is doing something with Medi-Care buy in that may work for those who want universal health care.

[Mithreal]

78. We have 51 Senators and it isn't over yet.

http://whipcongress.com/

Before Obama told Reid to cave to Lieberman we had 59 for medicare buy-in.

I just get irritated when people refer to nonsensical actions as if anyone believed it were so. I am sure you didn't intend to emphasize that and instead were just using it to make your larger point. Just reminds me too much of magic wands nonsense.

:hi:

[bbgrunt]

74. damn straight. It is a travesty. And the kabuki dance is exposed.

[NuttyFluffers]

80. that's the rub, Americans no longer expect the best.

we settle for good enough (lesser of two evils), cheapest (bang for your buck), & without any serious investment of ourselves (no risk).

hence you get a complacent, compliant nation that lets itself get kicked around by hard targets, but acts like a bully to anyone else it can victimize.

i expect better from myself and for my people. don't sell me that this is the best we can do. i want it all, i want the pony, and dammit, our tradition has shown that we got it before, we can get it again. enough compromise, enough talk, get me the best and i'll show you how we can make things even better.

[vduhr]

87. So should they kill the bill and start over?

Or should they pass it, have the Pres sign it, then use reconciliation to make the changes (public option) we all want? I'm confused at all of your arguments for not passing this bill. From what I understand from past efforts to get health care reform, or any kind of health care bill, if it gets killed, that's the end of it. Isn't that why the Repubs are trying to kill it? Isn't passing it at least a start? Don't attack me, just tell me what you think should be done, since "starting over" is the Republican mantra at this time.

[defendandprotect]

103. Yes -- kill this bill . . . they should pass a bill on "no pre-existing conditions" . . .

they should pass a bill on keeping kids on parent's health care to age 25 --

on and on -- they have the votes -- make the Repugs filibuster.

Then let's stop the pretense that we need to keep insurance and big pharma in

any health care plan -- MEDICARE FOR ALL -- NO PRIVATIZATION --


Having insurance companies and big pharma in health care is like having Blackwater

involved in war -- it's deviant!!

[Mithreal]

118. That would be too popular and embarrass the other party.

[defendandprotect]

119. You're right . . . let's be "bipartisan" . . . !!!!! Yikes!!

[bluestateboomer]

88. K&R

[DisgustedInMN]

89. And Democrats WILL pay..

.. the price for their spineless capitulation and sellout of We the People. Because of this travesty visited upon us, Obama will spend his one term as a lame duck nobody. History will record that he, more than any other President in the modern era, absolutely wasted a PUBLIC MANDATE to make the changes NECESSARY for this nation to survive. This will be the Obama Legacy, the final selling out of The Audacity of Hope. May he never sleep well again.

[defendandprotect]

104. Grayson in 2012 . . . !!!

[Mithreal]

117. Your signature quote is frightening.

New Democrats are Old School Republicans.

[defendandprotect]

90. Thanks for the truth telling, Michael--!!! This bill should NOT be passed . . .

it's a disaster --

And, why?? Only because of corporatism in America are we getting this pretense

that our elected officials just can't figure it out -- well . . . ask Canada how

to do it -- ask France -- ask all the other countries!!

Right now in the United States, Women are more likely to die in pregnancy or

childbirth than in 40 other countries!!!

"America" . . . ??? Where are you?

[Mithreal]

116. But, but, the President is a Free Marketeer. All for corporations, corporate masters for Obama.

DLC - making Principle a dirty word since 1985.

[defendandprotect]

120. "DLC - making Principle a dirty word since 1985" . . . Love it --!!

[activa8tr]

112. Michael Moore is SO RIGHT! and most Democrats have tired so much waiting

that they are will to consider that corporate health insurance company subsidy bill pass and become law.

What's up with that?

Single payer, by any name, is the ONLY solution to the cost of health care costs.

Dozens of nations do it that way, no billions in profits for private insurance ripoffs.

Why are we so damn stupid so as not to see the big picture here?

[Mithreal]

115. Too many of us let others do our thinking and a good many are incapable.