Cartoonist Lars Vilks (of Muhammad-as-a-dog notoriety) attacked at lecture

[charlie]

Run time: 01:14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdyKmzEdHws   Posted on YouTube: May 11, 2010 By YouTube Member: MXCartoons Views on YouTube: 330   Posted on DU: May 11, 2010 By DU Member: charlie Views on DU: 2472

 

Swedish Prophet Muhammad cartoonist 'head-butted'

A Swedish artist who created an international furore by depicting the Prophet Muhammad as a dog was assaulted as he delivered a university lecture.

Lars Vilks says he was head-butted by an audience member as he spoke about the limits of artistic freedom.

The cartoonist's glasses were broken, but he was not injured.

Mr Vilks has been threatened on numerous occasions, but the assault at Uppsala University was the first time he has been physically attacked.

The artist said a group of about 15 people had been shouting and trying to interrupt the lecture, which was attended by about 250 people...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8676351.stm

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[virgogal]

2. + 1

[CC]

4. Just as peaceful as

Christianity.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

29. Far from true in the last 50 years

[Chulanowa]

7. Because this never happens with anyone else, amirite?

No one in the world except Muslims has EVER disrupted an event, with one or two individuals doing something dumb and getting their butt kicked by cops.





Yup, it's only those motherfucking muslims.

[rpannier]

20. And that's NOT what he said

The apologists for behavior like this and various terrorist activities keep reminding us that Islam is a religion of peace.

He never said Islam was more violent than any other religion

[Chulanowa]

34. What apologists? Who? When?

I would love to see someone making this claim back it up. I recall some guy in an interview pointing out that the terrorists and such are an exception, and that islam is a peaceful religion despite these crazy fucks. But i have never once seen anyone give apologetics for violence with that excuse.

The only place I see such a claim is from "critics" of the religion. it's apparently one of those self-perpetuating myths that exist only to support your own prejudices.

Know what I see when I watch the video? I see two douchebags picking a fight over stupid shit.

What you, and many others seem to be seeing is two billion people who pose an existential threat to the fucking universe. because of course, to you, there are no people who are Muslims, there are no individuals. There's only a hive mind of non-humans who are labeled "Islam" in your head, and the actions of one speak the mind of the whole.

Sort of like how right-wingers look at gay people, honestly. Also how they look at Muslims, too. I guess there is some common ground.

[rpannier]

39. Nice broad brush

True quality

[Chulanowa]

40. That's exactly what I was thinking

I mean seeing as how so many here are using two assholes to tar over a billion other people.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mikelgb]

3. how fucking idiotic do you have to be to get violent over a fucking drawing

[ZombieHorde]

8. Religion and hormones are two things which can make a smart person dumb. nt

[Chulanowa]

9. Pretty idiotic

'Course, the same question goes the other way, too. What you're seeing here is "I have a right to piss you off, but you have no right to be pissed"

Same as if you were to call every black person you meet a "n****r" to their face and then cried foul when someone finally knocked you on your ass for it. Yeah, they're in the wrong for hitting you, but why in the world were you compelled to call them that? "because I thought it'd be fun to piss them off!" is pretty fucking idiotic.

[SurfingScientist]

11. No.

Your approach would justify violence by stepping over any *arbitrary* line that these religious nuts draw in the sand.

Next thing you know, they will be 'pissed' and violent because - gosh - women are going to school, vote, wear short skirts, because there are people with a religion different than their own, etc.

You may outlaw personal insults and hate speech, maybe, but to enforce that, there are police, lawyers, and courts. Rabid, hateful violence as seen here is not justifiable at all. Give these nuts one inch, and they will take a mile.

[Chulanowa]

14. I think you're missing my point

So let me try to explain it to you.

If you spend your time going around trying to pick fights with people, eventually someone's going to take you up on it and fight you. If you act like an asshole to people, they are going to give you the same courtesy.

if I were to, for instance, make a career out of displaying my pictures of Jesus getting fucked up the ass by a donkey in a sombrero, I would expect that this would piss off Christians (and any sombrero-wearing donkeys out there). i would understand that by pissing people off intentionally, I'm opening myself up for all sorts ofthings, ranginf from nasty glares and email spam, to a physical assault. it doesn't justify that being done to me, but honestly, I would have known my chances when I started displaying pictures of Jesus getting fucked up the ass by a donkey in a sombrero.

it's a basic priciple, really; "Don't be an asshole."

You're worried about religious nutballs attacking women for wearing short skirts? Good, that's a legitimate worry. But a picture of Mohammed as a dog, or jesus getting fucked up the ass by a donkey in a sombrero, or Buddha farting out the Baghvad Ghita or whatever, isn't going to accomplish anything to stop that. it's simply pointless provocation.

[SurfingScientist]

17. I understand what you mean. And I think you don't get my point.

For these nuts, 'being an asshole' starts at 'does not subscribe to our stone age views'; they need to accept that there is a culture where satirical or not-so-satirical attacks of whatever religion are possible, and a useful means of provocation to generate critical discussion.

A free society needs some people to be assholes to grant the persistence of freedom. A provocative asshole also serves to reveal the real assholes - people who seek to violently beat or murder their fanatic beliefs into everyone else.

[Chulanowa]

36. Well, there are different degrees of asshole

Take for instance, your assertion that "they" (who, the two dickwads in the video? No, of course not, here we go with the hive mind Muslims again) take not adhering to their "stone age views" (Neolithic or Paleolithic? I imagine cave men had a much richer religious outlook than any of the dickcutter religions) as being an asshole.

Okay, maybe they do. I don't know, I haven't asked "them" but let's assume this is truth for a moment.

When you get up in the morning, do you make a conscious effort to not adhere to these "stone age views" with the sole intent of pissing people off? Seriously, do you? I've never rolled out of bed, stretched and scratched myself and said, "Self, I'm going to massage my prostate with a crucifix in the middle of Easter Mass today!"

Maybe you do do this, I really don't know. But I can imagine that if you engaged in such an act, somebody's going to try to do something about it, and it might not be the cops.

You seem to be laboring under the assumption that I think such an assault is "right" or "deserved" - of course I don't, but I do feel it is to be expected. As you note, causing such a reaction is the sole intent. the cartoonist knows ahead of time that his work is going to piss people off. Not as a consequence, but as the core intent. he also knows that if someone actually does something about it, that means he gets a little feather in his cap to point at and tell people how "edgy" he is.

I personally think this "muslim vs. cartoonist" feud is ridiculous. It's not as if Muslim art hasn't been depicting Mohammed for centuries, and it's not as if the cartoonists are actually accomplishing anything productive. of course we live in a culture where a cartoon that consists of poorly drawn nine year olds calling each other "Jew queer" is in a top primetime slot and adored by millions...

[SkyDaddy7]

18. Like Christians do in America?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ9To30Hz7A

[AlbertCat]

32. "Don't be an asshole."

But who was the asshole first?

Did crazy Christians depriving gays of their basic rights while condemning them to eternal damnation despite Jesus' message come before or after such an image as Jesus getting fucked up the ass by a donkey in a sombrero as viable irreverent image?

Did Muslims neurotically demanding respect for their religion while blowing up themselves and innocent people all over the place make Mohamed a good subject for ridicule before or after the cartoon?

[Chulanowa]

37. Funny you should say this

The christians who are depriving gays of their basic human rights are "crazy"
But...
The Muslims murdering people are apparently mainstream, since you don't call them "crazy" as well.

Despite the fact the roles are actually reversed, with depriving gays of their rights being a core tenet of modern christianity, while terrorists are the exception in Islam, and are for the most part reviled by the other 1.8 billion "normal" Muslims.

I'm of the opinion that nobody's imaginary friend in the sky needs to be "respected" - but I honestly see no reason to go out of your way to be a dick about other people's beliefs, either.

Who was the asshole first? Does it matter? Asshole is as asshole does.

[Bullet1987]

42. Sadly we're in a time when getting a rise out of people and provocation

is considered comedic satire. Some comedians who do this are light-hearted about it like Jon Stewart. Others act as if they have an axe to grind and hide behind satire to piss people off.

[pundaint]

13. Yup, you don't get to assault me because you don't like my nasty cartoon, and if you do, you

cannot assert that you are representing Peace with your assault.

All religions I can think of, exist to control and manipulate other humans. There is no organized religion of peace, because all the organizations ultimately are about control. They do not have their violent periods all at the same time very often, but every one has shown it's true motivation sometime or another.

[tomm2thumbs]

26. well put

plus 'being provocative' is different than 'actually provoking an attack', even though they come from the same base, much that having a fiery speech is not the same as setting an actual fire.

if you don't like what someone says, it doesn't give you any legal right to attack them physically, although some posts appear to offer that as their view.

[AlbertCat]

33. All religions I can think of, exist to control and manipulate other humans.

Religion is just ancient government.

[BEZERKO]

10. Exactly!

[breadandwine]

28. Jihadists are people too, ya know.

Did you ever consider it from THEIR perspective? Did you ever consider what THEY were going through? It's not EASY killing people. Here you are, minding your lonesome, killing people, and along comes somebody with --- a CARTOON!!!!!!! Now THAT'S what I call oppression!

And pay no attention to this DASTARDLY video in 10 parts besmirching our brave Talibans and jihadis expressing their PEACE and LOVE! -----



Obsession Links:


Part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMLJJEDDDGc&feature=PlayList&p=FE5A96CBDC2582F7&index=0

Part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bev054pNzI&feature=PlayList&p=FE5A96CBDC2582F7&index=1

Part 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bJE6bIiXps&feature=PlayList&p=FE5A96CBDC2582F7&index=2

Part 4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J61r-NRHPtQ&feature=PlayList&p=FE5A96CBDC2582F7&index=3


Part 5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jwL_GefwUE&feature=PlayList&p=FE5A96CBDC2582F7&index=4

Part 6:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l17LmCEp1QI&feature=PlayList&p=FE5A96CBDC2582F7&index=5

Part 7:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYR5F3mbQ-4&feature=PlayList&p=FE5A96CBDC2582F7&index=6


Part 8:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLXZpOG4VCI&feature=PlayList&p=FE5A96CBDC2582F7&index=7

Part 9:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDPzPgkr4vk&feature=PlayList&p=FE5A96CBDC2582F7&index=8

Part 10:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lioOCOalPao&feature=PlayList&p=FE5A96CBDC2582F7&index=9

[Voice for Peace]

30. also how dumb do you have to be to light a match in a house full of gasoline soaked rags

[NightHawk63]

5. + 1 (nt)

[YouGotRondod]

6. Ahh Religion

Thank you for continuing to bring tension, violence, hate, honor killings, child molestation, terror, wars, bigotry, suppression of freedoms, brain washing, ignorance, etc into our world. Not gonna point a finger at Muslims like a lot of people love to do, they're just the flavor of the month. I'm all for faith but get this religious garbage out of here.

[Plucketeer]

12. Welcome to DU!

You're speakin' my language there. I have faith that the sun will show itself over the horizon tomorrow as well asa disappearing below the opposite horizon after that. But all that savior, final reward crap - just let me sleep in peace. :boring:

[Lars77]

15. Apparently one of the cops DROPPED HIS/HER GUN during the scuffle

it was picked up and returned by a journalist, according to a Norwegian paper.

[DRex]

22. PHEW!

That could have got a whole hell of a lot uglier....

[A Simple Game]

16. If I were inclined to worship a God,

it would be one of the greater Gods. Apparently most people now worship one of the lesser gods that can't take care of themselves.

Maybe we should bring back Zeus and some of the other "strong" Gods.

If a god can't take care of him or her self, why should I defend them? If they don't want to defend me, why should I worship them?

On edit: just punctuation.

[DRex]

23. Totally. What a weak ass god...

that can't handle a little cartoon by himself.

I heard Cenk from TYT make a good point about this recently: that when people get this up in arms about your having somehow offended their god, what they are really saying is that they don't themselves believe. It's insecurity that enrages them, it threatens their house-of-cards faith that god allows these kinds of thoughts and actions to exist in the world contrary to his divine plan.

If there really was justice in the afterlife doled out by the almighty, then why are they taking matters into their own hands? Surely they are acting contrary to god's plan in doing so.

Makes sense to me, because I've always suspected that no one really believes this shit anyway. I mean, how could they? It's fucking absurd!

[The Wizard]

19. Marx was right about religion (NT)

[Althaia]

21. does anyone else recall the fuss over a photograph of a crucifix in a glass of urine?

Yes, Christians objected, but I don't think anyone got violent. There also was a portrait of Mary with elephant dung on it. (If I am wrong about the non-violent responses to those artworks, please let me know.)

Islam has forgotten its history. For Islam's first thousand years, it was acceptable to create images of Mohammed, as this gallery of images by Islamic artists indicates. http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/islamic_mo_full/

Disclaimer - I am an atheist, with tolerance for people who insist on clinging to the magical thinking that is religion, of any faith. I don't think it was any superiority of religion that made Christians more tolerant of offensive imagery than Muslims. It think it was simply the inherent tolerance in western culture at the time those images were publicized.

[tomm2thumbs]

27. the new fundamentalism sounds so be a creation of this era then

perhaps folks should do more expanding on this from a historical perspective - calling Bill Maher

isn't this akin to hijacking a religion?

(no pun intended)

[AlbertCat]

35. Yes, Christians objected, but I don't think anyone got violent.

No.... they just killed the Nation Endowment for the Arts....punishing ALL OF US. Assholes!

[Chulanowa]

38. They save the indiscriminate murder for gays and doctors

And of course the millions of Muslims that "Christian" nations take it upon themselves to massacre on what appears to be a weekly basis.

While said christains stand around and gawk and wonder why people might be pissed at them. Putzes.

[JDPriestly]

24. I was rather proud of the blond, female police officer who

brought one of the violent guys to the ground. She did an excellent job in demonstrating the stupidity of attempting to subjugate Western women.

[tomm2thumbs]

25. they are not benefitting their cause, much in the same as the tea baggers lost cred by attacking

their audience is not folks in that room, but the world at large, and they failed miserably to sway their audience, and now will have more people against their cause.

truth always wins over furor

[Chulanowa]

41. So where's the truth here?

Cartoonist: BAWWWWWW MY SKY MONKEY ARE BETTER THAN YOUR SKY MONKEY I DRAW YOUR SKY MONKEY LIKE A DOG BAWWWWWW
Asshole Muslim: BAAAAWWWWWW MY SKY MONKEY IS GREAT I HIT YOU FOR ANGERING SKY MONKEY BAWWWWW!

It's possible - plausable, in fact - for all parties involved to be total fucking morons.

[Bullet1987]

43. People on DU neither care nor understand that tolerance goes both ways when it comes to religion

Maybe that's because there are so many anti-religious posters on DU? If you know that Muslims will become upset if you not only depict Muhammed, but disrespect the image by depicting him as a donkey...then why do it? Unless of course your intention is to piss people off. Let me give you an example, if a mainstream cartoonist drew a picture of Martin Luther King having sex with a white woman with the Bible in his hand...you don't think that would piss off every Black person in America? But no cartoonist would do that because they know who's buttons to press and who's not to. Racial jokes are still are no-go in some circles (or very limited), but religion-bashing is a-ok almost universally. At least Christians have groups that can defend their image, Muslims have nothing but themselves. They're considered "the enemy" across the board.