Obama & GOP Killed Bush Torture Probe

[Donnachaidh]

Run time: 02:36 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzMNjdCtYp4   Posted on YouTube: December 10, 2010 By YouTube Member: theGlobalReport Views on YouTube: 84   Posted on DU: December 12, 2010 By DU Member: Donnachaidh Views on DU: 3262

 

[mmonk]

1. Recommended.

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. Breathtaking.

Probably the most important information to come out of Wikileaks. The Obama Administration is involved in a cover-up.

[Poboy]

10. Yes. Exactly. And all the MSM seems to not want to talk about it.

[Enthusiast]

3. What was the President's motive

for doing this?

Every Democrat I know was seriously pissed off at the Bush Administration's lawlessness. When we elected President Obama it came as a shock to find he wouldn't even investigate Bush Administration abuses, especially in light of the fact that it was common knowledge that they had manipulated intelligence leading up to the Iraq War and had engaged in torture.

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. I think it's because we are living in an oligarchy.

The next step is to identify the members of that small circle of friends. Don't expect them to be all American.

[snagglepuss]

30. Forgive the expression but you are right on the money stating that not

all members of the oligarchy are American.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

17. Maybe he meant 'small change'? 'Cause that seems to be what we

are getting. The big money is going to the usual suspects. Next time I will pay more attention to the words politicians use and try to figure out all the meanings for them.

[civilisation]

9. power corrupts,.

Obama is just expanding the power of the office,. increasing drone attacks,. (these are executions without trials, or even charges, and regularly kill masses of unlucky random people for being in the area at the time.) cutting pay for everyone EXCEPT the military,. and just simply expanding the fascistic military-police-state of america.., here and around the world. Not pursuing the criminal murders behind the 9/11 false flag attack, the torturing criminal bush administration, the bankster thieves, who he is now helping finnish the job of stealing your retirement and everyone else's as well,. all the time spiraling wealth up the food chain to the less than 1 percent of the vampire thieves who seem to run things here.

I was never a supporter of Obama,. and have been proven correct through his actions. I recall in the campaign when he stated "I am not anti-war" (sic) and that about sums it up; if you are not anti-war then you are PRO-war and that is insane on the face of it. pro-war = pro-police state, and the lies it take to sell the stupid killing machine forward. And that trumps all else. Any little niceties Obama had over the Bushies is lost on that larger picture. The niceties coming from the Obama white house are few and far between anyway,. the health he still seem proud of is stupid, for profit, corporate crap,. how can people be so brainwashed by the anti-human corporate-capitalist dogma that such a system should exist is beyond reason. Tax cuts for millionaires anyone? Democracy is way dead. Welcome to corporate fudalism.

[alfredo]

21. This is not something a president does on his first terrm. Nothing would have gotten done

If he had put war crimes on the front burner. How much gets done in the second term anyway, you might as well shoot the moon.

[liberation]

24. So the "rule of law" is an unrealistic expectation...

... for a supposedly democratic country.

Wow, interesting...

BTW, we have already gone to the moon, so it can be done. Tool.

[alfredo]

25. Keeping our economy from collapsing was more important at the time.

The legal battle would have sucked all the air out of the room.

I want to see the bush junta in prison as much as anyone, but I can see there was an emergency that needed immediate attention.

Anyway, if we don't file charges, other nations will. They always wait to see if the host nation acts first. Milosevic and Pinochet escaped prosecution in their own countries, but didn't fare as well in Europe.

All it takes is for one judge or prosecutor in an EU nation to indict, and the other nations will have to go along. That's why that one judge in Spain was a big deal. I am hoping he reopens the case.

[guzzie]

34. What a sad response -

for the record spit happened to pinochet - far, far worse than Milosevic - but Pinochet was an American puppet - you know that right ?!

Again - the Bush crimes were far, far more important than a few pissy banks losing their bonuses - what is wrong with some people - no fracking idea.

[liberation]

37. They simply don't understand the ultimate consequences/implications of their so-called logic

by implying that the "rule of law" is an unrealistic expectation, the person in the previous post is pretty much admitting that one of the main defining aspects of a democracy is somehow "optional." Which means that the previous poster considers the economy to be far more important consideration than wether or not we're a functioning democracy, which is exactly the reasoning behind things like "fascism."


So there you have, in the America of the XXI century, in a supposedly pro-Dem message board, people are making cases in pro of "fascism." So many effing "changes" I can hardly keep up with. I weep. I seriously do weep for this country.

[alfredo]

50. So you find a kid bleeding on the street, do you give first aid, or

do you turn your attention to the guy that knocked the kid down?

[alfredo]

47. There is no statute of limitations on war crimes. It wasn't

just a few banks losing bonuses, there was a real danger of a world wide economic collapse.

[liberation]

36. So what you are saying is that the "rule of law" is an unrealistic expectation.

Thanks, a single sentence would have sufficed. No need to waste bandwidth with tangential hand waving.

[alfredo]

48. Remember the old saying "it's hard to build a road through

the swamp when you are up to your ass in alligators"? The economic emergency are those alligators. The road through the swamp was everything else on the agenda.

[tomp]

40. if you can rationalize not prosecuting....

...then you don't want bush in prison "as much as anyone".

[alfredo]

49. I'm not saying he shouldn't be prosecuted, I'm saying

Obama had more pressing issues like preventing the US and possibly the world from slipping into a deep depression. Most people, if asked, would rather Obama address bread and butter issues than get caught up in a very divisive legal battle with bush and cheney. There is no statute of limitations on war crimes so time is on our side.

Not everybody is as intent on seeking justice. They are more interested in keeping food on the table and a roof over their heads. That's just a fact of life.

A president has a very slim window to get things done. If he had pursued bush and cheney, I doubt he would have gotten much done.

Once again, I must emphasize, I want bush and cheney to die of old age in a maximum security prison.

[tomp]

53. i looked at your post and i realized immediately, you don't get it.

i didn't say anything about you not wanting prosecution. i said your claim to want prosecution "as much as anybody" is false, because you can rationalize it not occurring.

the fact that you wrote so much in response to a very simple statement of fact, indicates you are stuck in the rationalizing mode and therefore are a good democrat.

secondly, i would trade everything obama has "got done" for prosecution of bush/cheney. that makes it pretty much a certainty that i want prosecution "as much as anybody", which might indicate why i find your rationalizing so offensive.

thirdly, these things that obama has "got done", and the things that he's trying to do now--they're not things i wanted or want done. which, of course makes it easy for me to trade them off for prosecution, but i chalk that up to the consistency of my thinking.

[EFerrari]

35. The government's purpose seems to be to perpetuate itself.

It seems to have very little to do with us.

[liberation]

38. Most social institutions be it public or private seem to operate that way...

That's why most of those institutions, corporations or governments, can operate like perfect sociopaths if we really analyze their actions.

For example, a government which truly cared about the safety and wellbeing of its citizens would, for example, make providing the best universal healthcare coverage as one of their main priorities. However, a government that has its own self preservation as its main guideline would spend untold amounts of money to develop the largest military possible that would guarantee its security, even if that military expenditure interferes with the well being of its own citizens.


We know exactly what choice our government made in that regard, don't we?

[DeSwiss]

22. You don't actually think he's in charge of anything do you??? n/t

[green917]

4. To quote a favorite movie & sum up my feelings about the Obama administration:

"Disappointed!" -Otto

[BlueJac]

5. Slip sliding away........

should be Obama's theme song!!!

[Dinger]

6. They Looked So Happy Together

I wonder why.

[KansDem]

46. Yeah, same suit, white shirt with blue tie...

Kinda looked like twins...either that or they got dressed together...

[democrank]

11. I`m curious....

How long before the Never Take A Stand On Anything wing of the Democratic Party shows up to make excuses for this?

Obama was just being pragmatic.

Obama was just trying to compromise with his friends across the aisle.

Obama was "looking forward" not backward.

Obama is very busy with more important things.

[gateley]

14. One or more of those may have been his reason(s), but it doesn't

make it right. This is one of my BIG complaints about Obama - I hope this may pressure them into doing something. (Yeah, fat chance.) :grr:

[Goldstein1984]

18. I think he was just...

playing three-dimensional chess.

:rofl:

[Lorien]

28. I'm surprised that they aren't at least attacking the messenger

or posting links to unrelated articles.

[pam4water]

12. K&R

[gateley]

13. I'd love to see those documents - wonder if they named names

of those individuals who were making these requests of Spain.

:grr:

[Mosaic]

15. Outrageous

He lost my vote.

[The Wizard]

16. All there needs to be for a full scale investigation

is a stained blue dress.

[Goldstein1984]

19. If he aided and abetted Bush

then if the tribunals ever happen Obama should be standing alongside the others.

To quote un-named persons in Congress: "Fuck the President."

[sabrina 1]

20. Despicable. And Spain, just another puppet government

controlled by the U.S. Wikileaks docs revelations of how compromised Europe's governments are, must be coming as a real shock to the citizens of those countries. I hope they kick out their corrrupt governments, and start over, reinstating the rule of law and restarting these prosecutions.

That was Blackmail. And to say that we the people in the U.S would 'not understand' the implications of the trial? That infuriates me. That they treat the American people like children.

And of course the people would understand the charges IF our media was permitted to report the facts.

Shameful, truly shameful. History will not treat this period kindly. We are not the only ones who get to write history.

[Shining Jack]

32. +1 n/t

[DeSwiss]

23. K&R

Does it hurt yet?

To anyone who is paying attention, things look doomed. Fortunately for American capitalism, nobody is paying attention. They never have. Even given the unemployment numbers, foreclosures and bankruptcies, most Americans are still not feeling enough pain yet to demand change. Not that they will. Demand change, I mean. We haven't the slightest idea of any other options, outside those provided by the corporate managed state. So in a chorus well-schooled by the media the public demands "reform," of the present system, the systemic pathogenic system based on exploitation of the many by the few, the one presently eating our society from the inside out. How do you reform that?

We are clueless, and the state sees to it that we stay that way. Take the price of gas, about which Americans are obsessive. In one way or another, petroleum is the subject of much news coverage, nearly as much as pissing matches between egomaniacs in Hollywood or on Capitol Hill. So one might think that by now Americans would have a realistic grasp of the petroleum business and things like oil and gasoline prices.

Hah, think again! This is America, this is Strawberry Fields, where nothing is real and the skies are not cloudy all day. We're stewed in a consumer hallucination called the American Dream and riding a digital virtual money economy nobody can even prove exists.

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/07/waltzing.html">Joe Bageant, "Waltzing at the Doomsday Ball"

[defendandprotect]

26. K/R for tomorrow --

[saras]

27. Obama & GOP is becoming redundant

"Keeping our economy from collapsing was more important at the time."
Yes, but he failed, and he failed due to working for the wrong side.

Personally, I think that war crimes trials would have helped unite the majority of sensible Americans and left only those who are pro-torture for its own sake on the other side - and those people NEED to be marginalized.

[Lorien]

29. Agreed. And their excuses are pathetic

if they were so concerned about the economy they would get out of the Middle East and pass universal health care.

[liberation]

39. It goes further than that. If the economy was their fundamental "concern"...

... half of wallstreet would have been prosecuted and jailed for a long time. And some of worst financial offenders would have been nationalized. And this administration would have kick-started another apollo program to make this country truly energy independent, and the industrial leader of clean energy technology.

That would have returned the confidence in the market which is still lacking, and eliminate our dependence on foreign sources of energy which is the reason why we are in the debt hole we're with all our insane militaristic spending.


Funny, for such a bunch of guys so "concerned" with the well being of the economy, this administration did nothing of that sort... did they?

[civilisation]

42. Exactly, had they done the right thing then, they would be winning now!

If the Obama junta (I call them that because they seem to only support the military, police-state, and banksters, as most juntas do) had gone after the insane criminals of the previous administration, and those outside of government, that they had been supporting adding and abetting. I.e. Halliberton, BlackWater, BigOil, MonsterBanks, and the Wallstreet Pirate Vampires, that had been looting the world, they would be WAY ahead now.
Instead they continued this losing pogrom, well, winning for the 1 percent of vampire thieves, but eventually loosing for everyone, as all pyramid scams eventually fall in on themselves and only the few on top try to use their ill-gotten gains to fly over the destruction they needlessly caused. Greed people, stamp it out where ever you see it! Especially in yourselves.

[sciencewins]

31. K&R nt

[Shining Jack]

33. Damn Wikileaks!

[olegramps]

41. Obama has a serious character fault.

Bush would not have even had to be brought to trial if a committee was allowed to document and publish the lies that were used to justify the invasion. The Republican rather being safe from investigation to launch their offensive against the Obama administration would have preoccupied with trying to salvage their reputation.

Obama appears to be one of the weakest presidents to have ever graced the office. He is so desperate to be liked that he is powerless to pursue any course of action that would alienate even Charles Manson. This is what is wrong with him and makes him appear to be weak. Rather than shunning Bush as a lying little chicken-shit bastard, he falls all over himself trying to be affable. His greatest fear is that someone, anyone, will not like him. This is obvious when you compare him to FDR. FDR had enough self confidence that he told his enemies he welcomed their hatred because it only reinforced his determination to do the right thing hell or high water. He wasn't afraid to make mistakes and was quick to acknowledge them and try some other approach. What we have in Obama is someone who is incapacitated by what appears to lack of self confidence, but is his fear of alienation.

[Hubert Flottz]

43. Paling around with neocon terrorists.

[pleah]

44. K&R

[truth2power]

45. Of everything that's come out so far, this disgusts me the most...

Yet I haven't heard ONE WORD, not one, from the FCM (fawning corporate media). I think it says something about Obama's character and whom he really serves.

[cynthia]

51. don't you know that Wikileaks is last week's story?

There will be no mention of this in the media. They think the public has a short attention span and can't be bothered after the initial headline.

[MrObama]

52. K&R nt