News Hour: Protester - Rice Has Blood On Her Hands 'War Criminal!'

[Hissyspit]

Run time: 00:50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj9j-u6_nj4   Posted on YouTube: October 25, 2007 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: October 25, 2007 By DU Member: Hissyspit Views on DU: 3660

 
October 24, 2007 - PBS NEWS HOUR

[DUlover2909]

1. Good, make their lives uncomfortable at least, if possible.

[BayouBengal07]

2. I don't know how I feel about that...

Does it really do any good? Do you think Condi will change her mind because a wide-eyed Code Pink woman came close to invading her personal space with fake blood on her hands? Aren't there more constructive, more appealing, less "in-your-face" ways to make a reasoned argument?

I know I'm going to get flamed for this; I just think if you're trying to convince people of the righteousness of your cause in something as important as complex international relations, you shouldn't waltz up in a t-shirt and yell in the policymakers' face. Doesn't making a good impression count for something?

[Hissyspit]

3. Making a good impression like what?

Sitting down and shutting up?

Does it do any good? Just WHAT exactly has done any good? At least someone has shown some courage. If today's Americans don't understand the courage it takes to do what Desiree Farooz did, then I don't know what will count for anything.

[BayouBengal07]

4. I don't know

I know all the academics and politicians and suits protesting via the pen through opeds and resolutions have yet to make a dent in war support, but if you were Condi Rice would you decide it was time for change, or would you just brush her off as "just another radical hippie yelling in my face?" It takes people on par with her, our politicians, our scholars, our thinktanks, to actually stand up and say "look, with all due respect (because you pull the strings and we have to give the air of respect so we can get on your good side), this isn't working, and here's why." Not "WAAAAR CRIIIIMINAL!"

Just my $0.02.

[Hissyspit]

5. It's not about making Condi Rice change her mind.

[Divine Discontent]

6. amen! it's pretty obvious all the ways this is a good thing to have happen n/t

[BayouBengal07]

7. Hmmm?

So what's it about then? Someone in the administration has to do an about face vis-a-vis Iraq.

[galileo3000]

8. I'm with you. I dont see these 'obvious' ways this is good.

It seems to marginalize the peace movement to theatrics (which is most I have seen out of it lately). I don't think it would convince someone on the fence, in fact I think it would push them the worng way. In order for a peace movement to be effective, it must garner the respect of those we would provoke, while increasing the dignity of those provoking (a poorly paraphrased idea from Gandhi). The last protest I went to in DC did similar things and I did feel like we had lost a lot of our steam.

I'm convinced we need acts courage that our opponents can recognize. Not ambushing for photo ops.

[JTFrog]

10. So you think that having the courage

to stand up to someone responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths is just a photo op? You think we need to get respect from the thugs in charge before we can get them to listen to us? How do you garner the respect of people who RESPECT NOTHING?!

If only there were hundreds of thousands in the streets with red paint on their hands. Now that would be a PHOTO OP. :sarcasm:

[galileo3000]

14. To my friend JTFrog,

To the 1st question, yes I'm convinced this was more stunt and theatrics than courage. If what happened yesterday had been done by an anti-abortionist to Senator Clinton, I would have felt the same way (not likely to change minds, and provides no hope of any progress).

I'm convinced that we must help them see the wisdom of peace. I did not say it would be easy, but I'm sure we are right. I don't believe that anyone is so far gone that they respect nothing. (That is the reason why I am against the death penalty).

To 2nd question, I I do think that respect from ones enemies is the first step in bridging the peace. I do think that If I were to give into the easy temptation to demonize our opponents, I would be fueling fears instead of building courage. The latter for me is what we want from our leaders, not clever rhetoric.

In exploring my thoughts to respond to you JTFrog, I did discover that even Gandhi twice sent Hitler letters trying to convince the German leader of the merits of nonviolence.

So since I am convinced that peace is both pragmatic and desirable, and while nothing may happen, I will try writing Condolissa Rice a letter. If nothing happens, I will have only wasted a little of my time, but if I get a response, then I can at least say that she respects that I reached out (which means that our hopes for an end to the violence is not a waste of time). I will let her know upfront, that I disagree with her tactics to ensure our nations' survival. And I will let her know that I'm not convinced that our current Middle East strategy will make things better.

Would you like me to let you know what happens, if anything?

- Galileo

[JTFrog]

17. Sure. I'd be interested.

I have no problem believing that these people are that far gone. I truly believe that your letter will be added to thousands before it that have been ignored. I would wager that the Citizen in that picture sent several letters before confronting Ms. Rice. These people are supposed to work for us and listen to us after all.

If you had an employee that was bound and determined to run your business into the ground and acted like you didn't even exist when you tried to resolve the situation, would you send them a few letters asking them to please take your opinions into consideration while doing so? Would you watch your dreams dissolve because you wanted to get this person's respect? This person who obviously didn't respect you or your business?

I'm sure your approach is probably more level headed and practical than mine. But everyday of playing the garner respect game seems to end in more dead American soldiers and more dead and displaced Iraqis.

After five years of their contempt, I'd prefer to call them out on it and get some new employees.

[galileo3000]

20. One of my favorite concepts of all times is

"The Redemption of the Devil". I'm not sure which philosopher/theologian posed this idea (I think it was St. John of the Cross). The idea is also found in Buddhism and Hinduism (and I would expect to find it several other places that are beyond my current comprehension). Basically the concept is that nothing is worthless. Even the fallen can rise above their crushed state. In my humble opinion, the thing I have felt that many of the progressive movements have been lacking recently is the courage to express any desire to dialogue, discuss, or even debate. Just constant yelling at the other side, which has kept people from wanting to talk to me, and I want to discuss. I have faith that our ideals are right but I also want to test them in the heuristic fires of open discussion with those who see otherwise.

As proof that things change, I would submit that I don't find anyone in my line of work who is not talking about the environmental impact of Information Technology. I don't recall those conversations beyond small circles 20 years ago. Every data center that I visit these days is trying to do more than cut savings, they want to make sure they are not making things worse. At a conference in San Francisco, I attended, Hector Ruiz is pushing his company to develop technology he believes is ethically superior to existing solutions. For me, that was pretty radical. Hector Ruiz along with others is helping sponsor 2006 Nobel Laureate Dr. Yunus - http://www.grameen-info.org/ .

One of the Hospitals with which I work is responsible for helping get medication, education, and expertise throughout the thirdworld (I just help with the nerdy side). Most of the funding for those efforts comes from Michael Bloomberg, and Bill and Melinda Gates.

With our best trading partner being offended by the fact that the president was willing to sit down with the Dali Lama was for me a time to reflect upon how much of my efforts were driven by destructive emotions instead of a real desire for peace. No one I know thought that this meeting was a bad thing. Richard Gere was against all agression from the beginning and he was at the ceremony.

My point, is that we will survive, because our will is strong. And we have good reason for that will. There are plenty of good things we are capable of doing.

I know that my faith in others is seen by capitulation and weakness by some, but I'm strong enough to weather that storm.

- Peace and friendship

[info being]

28. I can tell that you're very new to the movement

Most of us spent 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004 engaging in polite, rational dialog with the opposition. Thought and reason is beyond these people.

[info being]

27. I'll tell you right now what will happen:

Nothing.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

35. If Rosa Parks had not broken the law and gotten herself arrested, Condo might be....

walking home from cleaning your house on the "black" side of the street.

[FunMe]

42. GREAT idea!

Wow, that's a really good follow-up idea. Just don't get the paint on government walls unless you want to be arrested for "destroying" government property.

If you watched the movie "V for Vendetta" I truly see our country leading to a boiling point where truly We The People rise up. It will get to a boiling point the worse it gets.

Remember, only 24% approval rating for the selected prez. It will only get smaller the more bs arrests like this happens. Trust me, we ill turn the tide eventually.

hmm... a Halloween custom idea?

meanwhile, hello good folks her at DU!

[JTFrog]

43. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[info being]

26. Right..much better to post on some discussion forum

where everybody agrees with you. I'm sure Code Pink will take your opinion with a grain of salt. Never mind, almost nobody will even read this opinion at all.

[tekisui]

33. These War Criminals live in insulated super-rich super-protected bubbles.

Anyone who can break through and disrupt their war march profiteering is in the RIGHT! Maybe condi will have a nightmare tonight. Everywhere these criminals go, they should be greeted with disrespect and outrage. They are murderous war mongers.

Go Code Pink!!!

[rainy]

16. That's what I say! We write letters, show up in the streets with signs,

donate lots of money and make plenty of phone calls. So, what would be a better way? No matter what we do they ignore us. If we keep getting in their faces publically then at least we might be able to change the minds of the public, then, the public will elect new leaders.

[JTFrog]

9. Ah yes,

being a good German always got one so far in life.

[rucognizant]

12. The neocons understand...............

FULLY: the value of theater! That is how they have managed this takeover of our country! Think back over the past 7 years to the shock value of all their
propaganda. Why did they call the invasion of Iraq "Shock & Awe"? WHat about those tanks and anti aircraft guns they had parked around DC during one of the color alerts? We need to use the same weapon back at them!
Think back to the "Middle Ages" when the morality plays were USED to gain the support of those less able to reason and diplomatically discuss issues, on an intellectual level. How about those "Indiamns" who dumped the tea in Boston Harbor. WHy did they dress as Indians..... in part to avoid identification, but in large part it was theater/drama to make a point!
It's sad that our society is so left brained, meeting, oriented,pseudo mature, that a large number of people have forgotten the true purpose of the artist in society! All civilizations have had them! Now we have given it over to the children, or use it as therapy, to "free up our inner being"as a leisure time activity. Nothing wrong with that...........for the individual involved............but it doesn't fullfill the other componant.
Think Picasso's Guernica!

[rucognizant]

13. AND BTW

The children I have taught in the past 10-15 years, the Indigo Children, the Pluto in Scorpio Generation born 1984-1997 will use their art to make a change.
They really GET IT! They willmake Deseree's act look like a meeting!

[0007]

23. The truth is the truth regardless of what form . . .

How many more lies and fabricated stories must we hear from Condoleezza Rice and junior and his dick?

The protester's expression of protest should be clear to even the subnormal.

[DuaneBidoux]

24. I'm in between those who flame you and you. I think your question is good, and so is theirs.

Don't look at this as a case of an individual--look at it instead as a case of a system that is beginning to go wrong. Systemically the fact that this is happening (there were, as he said, three more disturbances in the session)says something is wrong. I'll bet Rice is smart enough to pick up on that regardless of what she thinks of this person individually.

My opinion is that, at this point, I would never critisize someone for doing what she did, even if I wouldn't do it myself. But of course, just 'cause I wouldn't do it now doesn't mean I never would.

I guess mine is the classic view of civil disobedience. If the cause is worth it your willingness to pay the legal price for the disruption means you have paid your price to take that action and have that right. To take action against something when there is no price to be paid for that action leaves the action meaninglyess. When people know you are taking the action and are willing to pay the price, they take you much more seriously.

[harun]

25. I have seen similar responses from a few others

I completely disagree with you.

This administration is carrying out a policy not even 30% of the people in the country support. They have been doing this for a long time now, years. They have not changed their minds on anything since taking office, even if the policy was bad and failed.

Their International Policy is one of force and being "in your face". Why? Because they think this is the only thing that works. What group deserves the "in their face" treatment more than this administration?

[Cybergata]

44. Not to forget. . .

that this administration cheated and didn't actually win in the first place. There has been a take over of our government by a group of people who had a plan of making the president all powerful, and who would force their agenda on us. Bush was not truly elected. He stole the election. Nothing is beyond what they will do to force their agenda on us. I'd say a little fake blood positioned in the face of the toadies of this group is nothing compared.

I've been protesting, writing letters, etc. etc. since before the war started. No one listens. I once got a reply from Heather Wilson, and when I sent back facts that contradicted what she said in her letter, all replies from her stopped.

Code Pink is a heroic group. What they are doing is the next step we should have taken from the beginning, not six years after Bush took office. Thomas Jefferson said that a government that doesn't listen to the people it represents is a government that deserved to be rebelled against. If Thomas Jefferson was alive today, he would be the first person to stir up a revolt. Samuel Adams and the sons of liberty would be the first to throw real blood in Condi's face.

Our government doesn't give a damn about the American people. They are using our tax dollars to make their friends rich. They prefer to give our tax dollars to their friends at Blackwater, etc. than to sick kids. They are sending our children to their death in order to make their friends rich. They escalate when the America people send a clear message they do not support this war. I'd say that what this woman did was mild. Poor Condi was yelled at and had a protester in her face. WHAT ABOUT THE REAL VICTIMS HERE? What about the people who have lost their friends, husbands, parents, or children for a war that is based on lies and exists to enrich a few already rich and powerful people?

To those who earlier posted that the Code Pink person used a poor method of making her point I say, let's all be polite and see just how many more basic American rights we can loose. Let's all be polite and see (well actually they won't let us see them) just how many more of our country's young people come home in a flag draped coffin.

[RoccoR5955]

29. So then what good do theatrics like

Condi's "don't let the smoking gun be a mushroom cloud," or Bush's, "gotta get them there, so they don't get us here, or the constant mention of Al Qaeda, or 9/11 by the administration do? They instill fear in the sheep who are the citizenry of this country, and went along with their lies all along. Some theatrics are necessary. Why do you think that they don't want any coffins shown on TV? Why do you think that their propaganda arm, Faux Noise, doesn't carry any 'news' regarding the war?

Theatrics got us into this war, maybe they can get us out of it.

[mikelgb]

31. she certainly won't change it because she didn't do it

[Sarah Ibarruri]

34. Civil unrest is vital to freedom. nt

[Dukkha]

38. It's effective because they truly think we don't exist

we as in the majority of Americans who oppose their war and their lies on top or more lies to justify their brutal imperialist acts against another sovereign nation. They stand before these hearings in their usual smug arrogant stance acting like their righteous and just in their actions and everyone supports it. We need people like Code Pink right in their faces everywhere they go to let the world know we are mad as hell and are not going to take it anymore

[SalmonChantedEvening]

11. Scream it! War Criminal!

Well done

[babylonsister]

15. Thanks! I was hoping I'd get to see this! nt

[Amaya]

18. War CRIMINAL!

What a picture

[FreedomUnderground]

19. A Compelling Image

Bush's lover is as sick and detached from reality as her dim witted, spoiled companion. Her legacy will be a study in sociopathic behavior.

[Hissyspit]

21. Welcome to DU!

:thumbsup:

:toast:

:patriot:

[FreedomUnderground]

30. Thank You! (eom)

[0007]

22. I wish the country would follow this brave woman

[Joanne98]

32. I think the bloody hands work better than the peace sign!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

36. I agree. nt

[graywarrior]

37. I have never seen such anger toward any administration as I see toward this one

And yet, they still act as if they know better than anyone. Arrogant bastards.

[dicknbush]

39. If any congress should be disrupted it is this one!

And that includes every fucking Democratic who is not using everyu ounce of their fiber to stop this monstrosity Bush! Clinton Feinstein Byrd LIEberman and on and on!

[lakeguy]

40. this should happen evey time anyone who supports this war

steps into the public. they have millions of deaths on their hands and uncounted millions more who have/will suffer because of their policies. they should be in jail, yet they walk free.

good luck with the letter writing. what do you think had been happening the last 6 years or so? i guess it hasn't happened yet cause it isn't on the tv "news".

they won't stop this war until we make them and letters wont work. if groups like code pink are willing to join in, good for them.

most of the uber wealthy now in charge of this country don't know what it's like to do an honest days work. do you think they care about some dead people they've never even met? most americans don't and if you don't believe that, ask randoms how many americans have died in iraq. even less will know how many iraqis have died.

[Divine Discontent]

41. it appears Condi says "go away!"

that's the thing, they want people to leave them alone so they can live in their comfortable positions of power, and wealth, and not have to hear from the masses... I am very thankful Madea did what she did!