Now that I've found you, explain why the rest of DU has gone so bat shit anti Obama?

[Hamlette]

anti dem too while we're at it.

I've been here through the Nader fights and the primary but I've never felt so outnumbered here before.

What's up?

[Cha]

1. How'd you find us? I saw a post

by you earlier today and I wondered if you knew about the BOG?

The mods can't keep up with the rule breakers? And, the rule breakers are gathering on other anti-Obama sites and charging DU?

[Hamlette]

3. NJmaverick (who I'm sad to say I don't know) was kind enough to email me about you n/t

[Cha]

5. I kinda stopped

pming DUers about the BOG 'cause the last few weren't interested obviously.

I always like it when somebody finds their way here. Don't have to stop posting in other forums but it would be grand to build this one up as a happening concern..and, it has done very well in the growth department since there was a thread in GDP about the bog being only for supporters of the Prez around Dec 5, 2009.

It has now been resuscitated from the primary Senator Obama Forum with a new mission statement and his current job title.:)

Welcome to the BOG, Hamlette. :bounce:

[Robb]

2. Welcome to the Democratic Underground Underground.

:D

I wish I had an answer. And in many ways I wish I hadn't found this group, as I might've been able to convince myself it was only me seeing it. :(

[Hamlette]

4. it is unbearable. I used to spend a few hours a week on DU

now its just Josh, Andrew, and balloon-juice for me. (they agree with me more or less and two are former republicans, those are the ppl I think we should listen to instead of the rabid lefties)

I used to think there was no one on the left as nutty as Rush/Palin/Beck etc. Then I came to DU.

[Cha]

6. This guy is very good, too.

Steve Benen at The Washington Monthy~

<snip>

WEDNESDAY'S MINI-REPORT.... Today's edition of quick hits:

* The latest out of Haiti, where the national government appears to be paralyzed.

* Secretary of State Hillary Clinton described the devastation in Haiti as a tragedy of "biblical proportions."

* Digby posted a list of relief/humanitarian agencies on the ground in Haiti.

* U.S. and Russia are "really close" to a new arms treaty, replacing START, which has expired.

* According to the Federal Reserve, there is economic growth in 10 of its 12 districts.

* Wall Street CEOs on the defensive: "Challenged by a skeptical special commission, top Wall Street bankers apologized Wednesday for risky behavior that led to the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. But they still declared it seemed appropriate at the time."

* The New York Post has very odd priorities.

* Harry Reid thinks it was a waste of time pleading with Olympia Snowe to be reasonable on health care reform. He's probably right.

* One of the right-wing founders of the Tea Party movement is pulling out of the Tea Party Convention. These fissures really do matter.

* The South Carolina state House voted today to censure it's scandal-plagued governor, Mark Sanford (R).

* On health care reform, the Senate wants state-based exchanges; the House wants a national exchange. President Obama is siding with the House -- and he's right.

<more all the time>
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/

[goclark]

41. Bookmarked ~ refreshing and positive discussion nt

[rebel with a cause]

9. Nuts fall from more than one tree.

and although the fruit of a sweet gum tree is not a nut, I kind of think of the rabid lefties as these because they are hard and spiny, but they are soft (seeds/feels like sawdust) in the middle. They are a pain in the neck when they invade your territory. They share this with the tea potters.

The repubs are nuts that you can at least pick apart.

[Cary]

15. Welcome, and please spend time with us.

I don't know why but here we are. Our strength is their nightmare. :)

[graywarrior]

44. That's a catchy name. I like it!

[grantcart]

7. Its a paradox

Conservatives who believe in absolute individual freedom and tend to go to Churches that stress private relationships with God will, when formed into a group with a clear leader, fall into step and support the group without thinking.

Liberals who believe that all of our lives are greatly enhanced with more cooperative forms of government that establishes strong corporate services by the government when it makes sense will, when formed into a group with a clear leader, continue to challenge the particular leader all along the way, trying to compete for ideological purity with endless individual positions.

Were Democrats its a miracle that we ever agree on anything and ever get anything done!

[TicketyBoo]

10. How's that?

its a miracle that we ever agree on anything and ever get anything done!

We agree on stuff?

We get things done?

Wow. News to me!

[rebel with a cause]

11. "and ever get anything done"

The repubs say we don't and right now some of those claiming to be Democrats are seemingly trying our darnedest to prove them right. :nuke:

[Avalux]

8. Nice to see you! Wish I could answer your question.

I've been here a long time, moderated; never seen it like this. I think a lot of people who showed up during the election were fair weather supporters or had other motives and are now wreaking havoc.

[Hekate]

13. It really feels like that to me, too. Some old-timers have gone toxic & a whole slew of newbies ...

... most of whom give no sign of having signed up with any friendly feelings about the Democratic Party. The many who've signed up say, since October or November, who act like they came aboard with a major grudge -- just asking, but are these tombstoned returnees under new names?

Their protestations of holding his feet to the fire and it being their god-given right to challenge their leaders and he works for me, begin to wear thin if that's all they have to say beyond what a corporate-whore-warmonger-sellout Obama is. Especially if they are very, very new. Why come here now unless they were here before?

Hekate

[Robb]

14. I know *I've* turned into a grumpy bastard

...from my previously happy-go-lucky self. :hi:

[Hekate]

16. Ehhh. What can ya do some days?

:hi: back at you.

[treestar]

12. I've noticed it a bit anti-Dem since 06

I've almost never seen any respect at all for Reid or Pelosi - those two were "spineless" all through the latter Bush years.

Sometimes I think it's a Rovian plot and other times I think the left is as bad as the right.

The right is certifiably insane but the left is just unreasonable.

[Drunken Irishman]

17. I think it's simple...

They've always disliked Pres. Obama. They didn't like him during the primaries and they didn't like him during the general.

Often they bit their tongue, though. Maybe hid below the surface and when he won and when it became apparent he wasn't going to be this Dennis Kucinich type - they came to the surface.

Now they're a vocal minority. Unfortunately, they're so vocal that it's driven much of the Obama supporters out of here.

[Hamlette]

18. why don't they like him? Just because he isn't Dennis?

I noticed some ppl sound like the Hillary crowd during the primaries. That I could understand better because it was between 2 dems who had a chance.

It also sounds a little like the Nader supporters in 2000.

Do they really think Dennis could really win/rule/govern/lead? Or Nader? Is it because I stopped smoking long ago and they still are?

I can't figure it out. They seem disconnected from reality.

[Drunken Irishman]

19. They are disconnected from reality.

Polls show this. Obama is not hurting among liberal groups. He's got some of his strongest approval from the left.

DU, unfortunately, is the fringe of the fringe left. If that's even possible.

I mean, there are some amazingly smart people here. But they can be so out of touch with everything.

BTW, are you still in Utah?

[Hamlette]

22. yep, I'm still here. Are you?

In fact, I work in the unemployment office, we are dying. My unit did triple our normal case load in 2009 and more than double our worst year ever.

[Drunken Irishman]

23. I bet! Yeah, I'm in SugarHouse.

What do you think of Corroon?

[Hamlette]

53. I like Pete but he's not got a chance in hell of being elected governor.

I thought Herbert was going to be a complete disaster and I want to be totally pissed at him but so far I'm not. He appointed a very liberal dem to the bench and he hired a liberal dem (and a great guy) to be legal counsel, John Pearce.

Our governors are always more reasonable than the legislature which just drafted a bill to take the phrase "liberally construed" out of all Utah laws and rules. Shhhh. Don't tell them that the US is a liberal democracy or their heads will explode.

Crazy place to live. You a native?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

46. You're absolutely right.

When 89% of LIBERAL Democrats approve of Obama, and then you come here and you'd think some people are pining for the days of W and Mussolini because they think those guys are more liberal... I don't know how else to say except how you did - that DU is the fringe of the fringe (you might even have to add another "...of the fringe.")

[Cary]

24. They're radicals

What's a radical without something to be radical about?

Or else they're Freeps looking to sow dissention and discord.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

29. People talked about "impossibly high expectations"

when Obama was inaugerated. I think that some people around here turned Obama into a reflection of their own hopes and desires for the post-Bush future. I think they projected onto Obama THEIR agenda and completely ignored or forgot the fact that Obama was elected according to HIS agenda.

When Obama announced the escalation into Afghanistan (which you might agree or disagree with), he was doing EXACTLY what he said he was going to do. End the phony war in Iraq as soon as it was safe to do so, and the concentrate on the "real enemy" in Afghanistan. To hear some people on DU put it, you'd think Obama had promised an immediate and unilateral withdrawal from both countries.

Same with healthcare. I think these people are so passionate about a single-payer system that they forget that the candidate they voted for DOESN'T share that passion. And now they feel betrayed on account of something the Obama never promised.

[Cary]

32. Does he not share their passion?

Or is he just being realistic because he knows how to count votes?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

47. It's the latter.

We can't get 60 votes for a public option, but single payer is supposed to be doable? And to even pretend that it was where negotiations should've started... /facepalm

[RoyGBiv]

21. You're on to something ...

I remember clearly all the angst expressed about the end of the primaries and when DU would send in "the gestapo," to use one individual's words, to "force" us into supporting Obama. There were even some claims that the "presumptive nominee" business was "unfair" given in an attempt to draw it out. And this is not an observation exclusively directed toward Hillary supporters. Some of the worst never expressed specific support of any nominee but seemed to enjoy bashing all of them, taking sides as the moment struck.

I wondered then what these people were going to do when such nonsense got shut down. I'm saddened to admit I never even imagined they were just biding their time.

[ginnyinWI]

20. it's worse than I've ever seen it.

I can't even post out there anymore--every little word gets pounced on if it isn't written in total agreement with the most extreme view.

edited to add: and I've been here FIVE years.

[goclark]

27. I did a post about Security for Passengers on the airlines

and they called me stupid, dumb etc.

They must communicate 24/7 in order to take over every thread that is positive about our own Party or anyone of us.

Please wake me when it's better somebody.

[ginnyinWI]

38. I hear ya.

I'll probably eventually start hanging out somewhere else--Dkos maybe--or some smaller blog. It's a shame but now that we are all infiltrated here it's going to be hard for them to recover.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

48. I've been here 6+ years - and I agree completely.

I can't say I didn't see this coming a long time ago. I've always thought that allowing greenies and other leftists here was a big mistake.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tarheel_Dem]

26. +1,000,000,000.

I have been saying this for months now. The admins need to "lead". Make it known whether the board still stands by it's original mission statement. Those of us who support Democrats & this administration have a right to know where DU stands before their next fundraiser. As a lifelong Democrat, I don't particularly care to support a site where Democrats are constantly trashed for whatever reason.

Like many, I have a problem with some individual Dems, but I'd still rather have them in office so that we maintain, or even increase our majorities. Anything less ensures that progressive legislation will die in committee, and hurt us all. That's why I don't understand Jane Hamsher. What is the point of trying to diminish enthusiasm on the left?

[Adelante]

54. The time was a year ago

If DU were going to transition from fighting a Republican administration to supporting a Democratic administration, it would have been done. It wasn't and here we are. I have no hope of anything changing here. I won't continue being associated with what's become an anti-Democratic site. I've made up my mind about that. I'm just letting my star run out at this point.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

28. I have to agree...

I've sent Skinner a PM asking what's to be done about this. Personally, I'm all for giving people a warning -- maybe even two -- but then they need to be shown the exit. And that includes 1,000+ posters with donor stars.

A post in a thread today referred to Obama as a "sociopath."

[treestar]

30. The George W. Obama post was just too much for me

The problem is you don't have to be a Dem to be on DU but just can't openly advocate another party. So that post actually fell within the rules. Or I was having a hard time figuring out how it went against them.

[NJmaverick]

34. To skirt the advocacy rule they simply tear down the Democrat party

which in their minds is nearly as effective. Then they just toss out the occasional "join a third party thread" that may or may not get locked.

[Blue_Roses]

40. I don't understand

why this thread is still open? Where are the mods? This is clearly rehashing the primaries.

[Cha]

36. "sociopath"

When it's that poster who is an ignorant dumbshit. But, can we call them that? Nooo.

[RoyGBiv]

31. I agree with this ...

I understand from experience the reluctance of the admins to inject themselves into various squabbles. When you're in that position, a good admin understands that whatever he or she says will be magnified relative to the individual comments of others, which means that making a mistake is magnified. I suspect the admins believe the current state of the forum is either not all that different from various past periods of high tension and/or this one will resolve itself eventually once the high drama of HCR calms down.

However, this reluctance can be taken too far, and I am sorry to say I believe it has been.

DU is in some sense like the Whig party of the Jacksonian era. Its reason for existence in the early days was simply to provide opposition to Jackson and his party of upstart democrats. Without Jackson as a foil against which to define themselves, the Whigs struggled. Leaders did emerge, but internally they squabbled, and no clear voice spoke for the whole of the party to give it direction.

DU, in other words, is suffered from the lack of a George Bush to define what it's about, and it is up to the admins to do that, unless what they want is a free-for-all.

[ginnyinWI]

39. I think you've hit on an important point.

This site is custom-made for people to express opposition an established administration. Wasn't it started in response to the GOP stealing the presidency from Al Gore? And all through the Bush era they knew who to go after. Now that it's gone, the haters needed a new target.

It's more about expressing anger (for whatever personal reason they have) than about the target of that anger. If something is lacking in their personal life, they go and bash the powers that be--thinking it will make them feel better! And it does make then feel better; anger is very empowering. They look for anything at all, make a big deal out of it and have a field day.

So really, one way to think of it is that Obama's election was DU's un-doing. Its basic premise has fallen apart. Add to that the infiltrators and that finishes it off.

[NJmaverick]

42. Your point is certainly compelling

I think you are on to something

[Cary]

33. I'm not sure about this because I don't know what the admin's goals are.

But I don't see why we're left to guess about it. A statement of some sort would seem to me to be in order, even if the statement is that they don't know what they want to see, or that they're waiting to see how it shakes out.

[Cha]

35. Here here.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

49. The message got deleted before I saw it.

But from the context of the other posts, it sure seems like I'd agree. :-)

[Cha]

52. Oh Fudge..

I should have recorded it..darned if I ..oh yes, now I remember what the gist was but I can't really say it again or I'll get myself deleted.:)

[DeepModem Mom]

43. I know that DU was founded on a deep conviction, and very dramatically --

holding up signs for the cameras at Bush's illegitimate Inauguration. But now that the website has been in existence for years, is it not a business (although one supported to no small degree by donations from participants)? Maybe the thinking is that the site/business is allowed, post-Bush, to take whatever direction the majority of participants wish to take it, with its mission and rules broadly interpreted. If that's true, I don't know what the future direction of the site is -- except a question.

I just want to add that the way DU is set up, for which we can thank the founders/admins, is a large part, I think, of what has bound us to it. And I've always been grateful for the many statements Skinner has posted at the height of past madnesses. He has displayed good sense time and time again. Unfortunately, this period is a tough one. It's difficult to see DU, as we've known it, evolve into something else -- if that's what's happening.

[quiet.american]

37. Because self-appointed leaders of "the people" figure it's cheaper to use DU's bandwidth --

-- than to actually develop an interwebs underground of their own to spread their division and hysteria.

[Fire1]

45. Welcome Hamlette! Take a load off and stay awhile.

:hi:

[KharmaTrain]

50. Greetings Funseekers...

Thanks NJ Maverick for the invite. Sorry to see all the angst and sturm and drang that gripped this place. While I won't disparge other members on this site, it does seem the verbosity has hit some new lows of late. Personally, not big deal to me...they're the ones with the frustrations and will get even more frustrated as they marginalize themselves. For those who are trolling (and I know of several sites that target this one)...their sockpuppets aren't hard to find...they always find a way to expose their talking points and stupidity.

[FrenchieCat]

51. Make sure to sign up over on the January BOG roll call!

We want to get a hang on our numbers....

but currently, I believe the extreme Anti-Obama posters number about 45, not counting
some new sock puppets, and a few new Republicans on these board.


Thus far, we, who know about the BOG and have a star to post here
appear to number about 140+ strong.

[still_one]

55. I am not sure, but if it continues, I won't be hanging around DU very much /nt