I echo Bernie McCoy's recent statement about the problems around here.

[stevenleser]

In my thread celebrating the impending end of DADT, people who would otherwise be happy about such a thing are fighting tooth and nail for the right to still be angry at Obama. That is to what it boils down. Here I am thrilled about the progress on Gay rights, and they are essentially calling me a bigot for being happy about the end of DADT.

If that isnt completely screwed up, I cannot tell you what is.

[POAS]

1. I agree although I cannot be happy about agreeing.

It almost seems that some want to impose a purity test on the Democratic party and DU.

I never thought I'd see the day when the ideological or any other form of "purity" test would be a part of the Democratic party.

When you look around a gathering of Democrats your going to find people of all colors, all ethnicities and certainly there will also be a wide variety of opinion on matters ranging from war to choice to the economy and to any subject that might be considered even tangentially political.

Those differences are what has made us the true "Big Tent" party. We have always bickered over issues great and small but in the end we always remembered that our hearts were in the right place in spite of our differences because we have always striven for a "more perfect union" and justice for people of all stripe.

Now we seem headed down a path where many would banish anyone not "up to their standards" of liberalism or progressiveness. Disagreement is taken to be betrayal. Discussion based on reason is passe. Emotion rules.

I don't know where DU, the Democratic Party or, for that matter, I may be headed but it seems that we a coming to a fork in the road and I may take it!

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

14. The problem, especially in the instance cited, is not one of a purity test.

No rational Democrat should be called a bigot for celebrating a plan to end DADT. That's not disagreeing on issues. That's just flat out insane. And it's very emblematic of the current problem.

[POAS]

15. I agree, and I see that particular form

on insanity as designed to marginalize and drive out those that disagree.

If you disagree with, for example, the current DADT changes being proposed then by all means explain where you disagree and try to convince others to your side. Name calling and marginalization do nothing to further the discussion.

Unfortunately name calling and marginalization are carrying the day, or so it seems at least!

[quiet.american]

2. Hey, Steven -- but you must've seen it coming! :)

"Moving goalpoasts" and all that.

[Cha]

3. They're

predictable if nothing else.

[sandnsea]

4. They heckled him in San Francisco

Someone from a group called Get Equal. Lt Choi is affiliated with them and has issued a statement and video opposing the compromise.

"My question still remains, and I've yet to find anyone who signed off on yesterday’s compromise able to give me a direct answer to, “when exactly will the discharges stop?,” said Lt. Dan Choi, an openly gay Iraq war veteran and Lieutenant in the United States Army. “Until the President signs the papers that fully and immediately end the firing of patriotic, gay and lesbian service members, then there is no cause for celebration and no reason to trumpet mission accomplished for a job not yet done."

http://www.getequal.org/dadt.php

[JI7]

5. the left opposed Robert Kennedy , Jimmy Carter and many others

is it unusual ? or maybe we just hear it more because of the internet, 24 hour cable tv etc.

there is a thread of Jim Webb opposing getting rid of DADT where many who attack Obama are surprised. anyone who knew about these people would not be surprised.

it's people like Jim Webb that we should be going after. they are the reason we can't so easily get things done.

[sandnsea]

6. Local Dems afraid of local teabaggers

Robin Carnahan has the craziest platform. She's constantly talking about deficit reduction and ending the bail-outs. Doesn't sound like a Democrat at all. Apparently it was a Dem in Arizona that leaked the 1200 NG today, even though there was a strong rebuke of McCain's Amendment from the generals that got no media at all. Then you think of Blanche Lincoln fighting health care. Even Wyden is campaigning against the bail outs. No wonder this party has such a hard time getting anything accomplished. Who is standing up for a new energy economy or running on all the changes coming in the health care bill? If they just repeat the garbage that the right says, the people have no choice but to believe those are the real problems.

[JI7]

8. hasn't it always been like that, the new health care bill ?

i think it will take time and people to see the benefits of it. then it will be similar to social security and medicare. politicians will go after each other for wanting to cut those programs. but it will take time and people seeing what it does for them to react to it.

i just think the problem is people many times. especially being from california and hearing what people say in non political areas. i see people who are struggling financially complaining about the homeless. one woman lost her home and she always complains about the homeless.

right now i worry about a proposition here pushed by the energy companies.

if it was as easy as a politician speaking of these things we should have more easily gotten health care passed.

[Arkana]

24. Campaigning against bailouts isn't really a surprise.

I would do the same thing--it's not like you can campaign against a bailout that happened over a year and a half ago (and which we've gotten back the majority of the money for).

Plus, if I'm not mistaken, that was one of the provisions written into the financial reform bill--that taxpayers would never again be asked to bail out financial institutions.

[sandnsea]

25. It makes no sense to me

As far as most people are concerned, these were Dem bail-outs. They don't know or deny that the money has been returned. And anybody who remembers Chrysler or the S&L failures knows that we'll bail out any industry that has the potential to collapse the economy. She'd be better off explaining that the bail-outs worked but that we wouldn't have needed them if there had been adequate regulation. That's the only way to avoid a future bail-out.

Joining the anti-bail-out mantra makes her sound like a teapartier. It's stupid.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

7. Well, I absolutely agree with Choi's statement

I also want to know what is being done between the time the bill is signed and the time the law goes into effect.

I have not seen the video, but I don't necessarily think that arguing there is no cause for celebration until the discharges stop means you oppose the legislation.

I support the legislation, with the stipulation that they suspend discharges.

[sandnsea]

9. I guess there could be no law at all

Then people could continue having nothing to celebrate.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

10. It just feels wrong to celebrate while people are still being discharged.

Is the law better than nothing? Yes, absolutely. But I can't count it as a win when people are still being persecuted. That doesn't mean I don't see the value in getting this done before the midterms.

[sandnsea]

11. Yeah I guess we shouldn't celebreate health care either

Seeing as how everybody isn't instantaneously getting help to buy insurance.

Gates has already restricted the regulations for discharge as it is. That combined with this legislation will mean that very few, if any, individuals will be discharged while the military is finishing its implementation policies.

I would think this would move along a lot quicker with a celebration and the expectation that discharges will end, then another round of chaining to fences. Of course, I don't think that kind of thing really makes too much difference anymore. I think this legislation comes from pressure from Congress and groups like HRC.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

12. But healthcare is a very complex issue and DADT is not.

Healthcare is controversial and DADT is not (at least outside of staunch Republicans and the military brass)

I don't know...I suppose I am glad that we're moving forward but I remain cautious.

[sandnsea]

13. DADT is more complicated than marriage

Because the military has more equal rights laws than the US government. They have to go through everything from housing to benefits to discrimination to hate crimes, for every branch of the military, every base and ship all over the world, every national guard. All of it. I would think the people pushing for repeal would be discussing these issues and paving the way for a smooth transition.

[Cha]

16. Excellent point.. Points, actually.

"All of it. I would think the people pushing for repeal would be discussing these issues and paving the way for a smooth transition."

[goclark]

29. I was hopeful that DU would be the right place to build support

for the issue.

Did I miss something?

Where are the threads that give all of us Links that will help gain support?

Please let me know if you see one because I have not found any threads that ask all of us to sign a petition or give money or march or anything.

Did I miss something?

[HughMoran]

17. I don't understand the need to always be angry

What ever happened to being fair-minded?

You know, disagree on one issue, agree on the next.

Perhaps I was wrong, maybe some people really DO hate Obama - it's the only explanation I can come up with for the illogical behavior. :shrug:

[NJmaverick]

18. Fair minded left the station a long time ago

leaving only anger, hatred and irrational positions

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

32. They ain't Democrats.

It's really that simple.

[Bobbie Jo]

19. Agree, Agree, Agree.....

I've made myself pretty scarce around here for the last several weeks, but logging onto GD for the first time in a while, I found myself going from 0 to pissed within minutes.

Who needs this shit?

Constructive criticism my ass.

[DevonRex]

20. I was wondering where you were, Bobbie Jo. And how can I say

that I'm glad to see you back in a place that hates the Democratic president? Just glad to have your company, I guess. :hi:

[Bobbie Jo]

21. Right?

What the hell? :wtf:

Starting to sound like a bad joke, no? I wandered back to the BOG in search of a little sanity.

Sheeeesh. :crazy:

Good to see you too, sweetie! :hi:

[DevonRex]

22. You started something here, by the way. We had a "pay it forward"

movement here, and you were the beginning of it. Sad to say that it's really gone downhill fast since then, and that was just last week.

:hug:

[FrenchieCat]

23. Holding the President's feet to the fire and burning the whole fucking house down

ain't the same.

Not even close.

[Raine1967]

30. I'm so going to use that. Thanks.

[Peacetrain]

26. I know, I know.. I hear you..

have the same reaction many times.. like I cannot believe what I am reading..

[goclark]

27. I got slapped in the face for expressing support

that the issue was moving along.

I was shocked and quickly realized that my support was not appreciated.

I say that because after I further clarified my reasons for being supportive, no one even cared to say ..."Thanks goclark for standing with this issue." Crickets

The crickets will not stop my strong support for a quick positive resolve of the Issue but it was a surprise that not one person thought what I said had any meaning at all.

Again, I am surprised that we have been allowed to express out feelings ( hurt, frustration) in this Forum. I hope this continues.

[stevenleser]

28. Yep, me an several others wrote "So, repeal of DADT is a bad thing then?"

because thats what we kept getting from them. They steadfastly refused to address that question.

[goclark]

31. I haven't been watching tv for a few days

My Life has been better for the not watching.

Tell me that it's getting better for DADT ~ I hope so.

[DevonRex]

33. Yeah. But I've also noticed a few positive things lately.

Like a few people who really seem to have a realistic attitude about what Obama can do about the oil gusher.

[goclark]

34. I must have missed those threads

Unless I see BOG names, it's usually same old same old.