Germany: Movies Can't Be Filmed There If Scientologist Are Involved In It

[DeSwiss]

Germany: Scientologists Not Wanted
Germans Nix Shooting of a Tom Cruise Film Because He Is a Scientologist

ABC News
By Louis Charbonneau
June 25, 2007

Germany has barred the makers of a movie about a plot to kill Adolf Hitler from filming at German military sites because its star Tom Cruise is a Scientologist, the Defence Ministry said on Monday.

Cruise, also one of the film's producers, is a member of the Church of Scientology which the German government does not recognise as a church. Berlin says it masquerades as a religion to make money, a charge Scientology leaders reject.

The U.S. actor has been cast as Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg, leader of the unsuccessful attempt to assassinate the Nazi dictator in July 1944 with a bomb hidden in a briefcase.

Defence Ministry spokesman Harald Kammerbauer said the film makers "will not be allowed to film at German military sites if Count Stauffenberg is played by Tom Cruise, who has publicly professed to being a member of the Scientology cult".

more: http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=3313674&page=1

Xenu, is that you???

[Madspirit]

1. Doesn't Surprise Me

Scientology is legally a cult there. Here we don't have laws banning cults so there is not a problem but there they do.

I hate Tom Cruise and I hate Scientology and I hate Cults. To me that includes religions. I wouldn't ban these things just because I hate them. I just wish they would disappear.
Lee

[Ezlivin]

2. First they came for the Scientologists, but since I wasn't one, I didn't protest

I'm not a fan of any organized (or unorganized) religion, but this sure sounds familiar.

[WinkyDink]

18. You've got it backwards. Germany HAD its cult, and is striving mightily to PREVENT another

from gaining a foothold.

[JackRiddler]

41. Gimme a break!

As it says above the GOVERNMENT of Germany denied the use of GOVERNMENT bases. It's up to them to decide that.

And you dare compare this to the round-up of the Jews as a prelude to genocide?!

I wish this example would be extended to ALL movies. Like all the Hollywood pro-war movies that get to use Pentagon locations and US military gear at huge expense to the taxpayer in making propaganda. The US military should deny those.

As for Scientology: Has a scam ever been more obvious?

[Bucky]

54. Scientology if a cult. But a government singling out religions they don't like... that's evil

They're not even being logical. If scientology is a cult, then Cruise is a victim. That'd be like passing a law that says you can't make a movie if you've been mugged in an alley or lost money to a con artist.

Even if it is a cult, it's not like the Church of Scientology is making this movie. Just one of their suckers. I think these L Ron dupes are a pretty loony bunch. But that hardly means they don't have the right to work.

[hughee99]

3. Hey, look who's bringing the blacklists back...

Nice work, Germany. :sarcasm:

I'm not a fan of Cruise at all (though I admit I did like Rain Man), and I'm certainly not a Scientology fan, but this sounds a lot to me like the Hollywood blacklist of old.

[onenote]

6. Yep. Wonder how they feel about Wiccans. Or Atheists.

Look, if Germany doesn't want to recognize Scientology as a religion and give it whatever benefits (tax breaks?) are given to religions in Germany, that's there business. But refusing to allow a filmaker access to a site because the movie stars someone who is publicly a member of that "religion" is ridiculous.

[Malikshah]

15. Not sure, but check the Wiccan and Atheist bank accounts

and money making practices...

I'm pretty sure the beef is that they view Scientology as some bizarre pyramid scheme/scam.

[onenote]

21. They can have whatever beef with Scientology they want

What is unacceptable is blacklisting individuals who are not doing anything relating to their religion from working.

Are you really comfortable with the idea that Germany would, and I don't know if they do, but its the absolute logical extension, demand that anyone entering the country declare what religion they adhere to (or whether they don't adhere to any religion?)

[Malikshah]

30. My point was your use of Wiccans and Atheists. Scientology is viewed as a money making

scheme and potentially harmful by some.

Germany appears to be going overboard to declare itself separate from such cults. They've been down that road before.

[Bucky]

56. I could make the same argument about Catholicism.

This is why government is supposed to be hands off of religions. You say it's a cult and I say it's a cult, but I go to a Unitarian church and my grandma once told me THAT was a cult.

It's religion. It rakes in money, it postulates an unproveable cosmology, it has a heirarchy and secret levels of access and beliefs. It's everything any organized religion can be called.

If they break the law, if they do harm, prosecute the hell out of them. But in the meantime governments have no business regulating the beliefs of their citizens and their guests. Governments exist to serve the rights of individual people. Any move in the opposite direction is a step toward tyrany.

[Malikshah]

61. Little hard to prosecute when you've got a Koresh like thing going on

Go for it. Free to be you and me. A little perspective and respect would be nice. But, by all means, judge away.

[philosophie_en_rose]

69. You could, but you'd be wrong.

The Catholic church doesn't charge money for its services. It might "rake in the money," but it's not charging a fee.

And if a nun leaves an order, she's not charged thousands for being a "deadbeat."

[Occulus]

48. Calling scientology a religion is like

calling "South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut" a hit musical.

I certainly don't recognize it as such. In fact, I see scientology as something to be mocked, scorned, and shunned.

If one chooses to be a complete and total fucking idiot, well, I suppose that's your own business. But to call your complete and total fucking idiocy a religion is really taking the case a tick too far...

[Bucky]

58. "If one chooses to be a complete and total fucking idiot, well, I suppose that's your own business."

That's not how the German government sees it. In their view, if you're such an idiot, you don't have the right to work, the right to profess your beliefs in a free marketplace of ideas, or the right to set up a multi million dollar business venture that will bring in jobs to hundreds of their people.

Liberty won't die because Tom Cruise has to find a different country to film his little blockbuster in. But that said, it is a hallmark of western civilization and the Englightenment that peoples' rights to believe what they want aren't granted by governments, but come from Creation and that governments have no right to regulate the conscience of the individual.

Germany is choosing to stand outside that belief system. On this issue they stand with totalitarians.

[onenote]

72. agreed

Germany is free to treat Scientology however they want and to refuse to recognize it as a religion entitled to the benefits etc accorded other religions. They are free to prosecute those who manage the religion and profit from it illegally under Germany's laws. But that's different from denying benefits to those who simply identify themselves as adherents of Scientology (call them victims, call them cultists) who are not otherwise engaging in any other behavior, apart from simply being, that is illegal.

Put another way, if its okay for Germany to declare not only that scientology is illegal but, in effect, that any adherents of scientology can be freely discriminated against simply for being adherents (not for any behavior that individual may have committed), you are only a step away from rounding people up and trying to engage in mind control over them.

[Karenina]

80. BULLSHIT.

They are refusing a MILITARY BASE as a location. They object to Tom Cruise portraying the Wehrmacht on a MILITARY BASE. They object to the propaganda Scientology would use in this country having Tom (I-reject-psychiatry) Cruise playing von Stauffenberg on a GERMAN MILITARY BASE. That. Is. All.

[Marrah_G]

50. Scientology is not a religion, Wicca is

They stopped burning witches in europe a while back.

Scientology is a money making cult.

[Madspirit]

14. I boycott Tom Cruise

I hate the man but I did make an exception with Born on the 4th of July...superb book and superb movie.
Lee

[ceile]

4. I don't what to think about this.

I dislike Tom Cruise as an actor and human being, but to essentially ban him from a country because of his religious beliefs? (I use "religious" VERY loosely here). This just doesn't sit right with me...

[truebrit71]

7. As soon as that cult becomes a recognized religion then you might have a point...

...but at the moment this cult uses people, sucks them dry and brain-washes them...

Fuck this fake religion, and fuck this fake actor...


Good for Germany.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. How is it different than any other religion?

:shrug:

[WinkyDink]

20. What deity is worshipped? What are its tenets?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. What deity in Buddhism is worshiped?

Tenets can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_beliefs_and_practices

[Madspirit]

28. Yes, that's the one thing better about it.

No silly deities. No mythology. It's a cult but compared to ...oh..Jim Jones or the Moonies, a relatively benign cult. It's a Rich Person's Cult.
Lee

[malaise]

23. BIngo

All religions are cults.

[Cha]

33. Some are just bigger than others..

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/cult

[Geek_Girl]

38. That's exactly what I was thinking

nt

[Madspirit]

12. A little fascism with that rant?

Germany officially has Scientology listed as an outlawed cult.

How does that differ from any other religion that sucks people dry and brainwashes them?

Blacklisting and banning and censoring are wrong and reek of nanny-state fascism. If I want to join a god damned cult, it's MY business.
Lee

[monktonman]

19. Sucks people dry and Brainwashes them......

so your ok with that?

[Madspirit]

25. I'm OK with being an adult

...and making my own decisions. Yes.
Lee

[onenote]

17. "Good for Germany"??

I take it you would have no problem, then, with them asking anyone entering the country to declare what religion they believe in (or whether they don't believe in any religion).

After that, maybe you can salute them if they start rounding up people for their beliefs (not for their actions since no one has suggested that Cruise is doing anything other than acting in a movie).

[truebrit71]

79. As long as they only single out freaks like Cruise..

...I'm fine with it..

The Germans have had experience with brain-washing cults in the not-too-distant past...THAT'S why they're so strict now...

[Karenina]

82. I don't even know where to begin...

:eyes:

[Selatius]

5. Germany has weaker freedom of speech protections than the US.

There, you can actually get into legal trouble for giving the nazi salute.

As far as Scientology goes, it's a money-making racket.

[Aristus]

8. Tom Cruise to play Colonel Claus Von Stauffenberg????

Ugh! :puke:

Von Stauffenberg deserves better. Much, much better than Tom Cruise.

This hero:


played by this zero:


I say again: :puke:

[mcscajun]

10. If the producers of this film didn't include (prominently) Tom Cruise

NO WAY would anyone in his right mind cast him as a high-ranking German officer. P.U.
Well, there's another film I won't need to see, regardless of where they wind up filming it. :thumbsdown:

[mitchum]

31. Edited by mitchum for Agent Mike's benefit

Yes, he does deserve far better than Cruise

[rug]

64. Whoever plays the table will give a better performance,

[Aristus]

70. HA!

:rofl:

[rucky]

9. That's as silly as Scientology itself! n/t

[JVS]

13. If scientology wants to be legal in Germany, all it has to do is stop charging people money

[onenote]

16. Its one thing for Germany to make Scientology illegal, its another to blacklist adherents

The Church (or whatever) of Scientology isn't making this movie. A filmmaker is. And he happens to have a cast a scientologist in a lead role. Barring them from a site because of what someone who is a movie believes is totally ridiculous.

[WinkyDink]

22. Germany is, shall we say, sensitive about the issue of cults.

[onenote]

24. and some of us are sensitive about blacklisting people because of their beliefs

rather than their actions. Even accepting the notion that cruise is the member of a cult, he's not doing anything as a member of that cult in Germany. He's there as an actor in a movie. For Germany to make this stick, they effectively have to start demanding that everyone who wants to enter the country must declare what religion they are an adherent of. If that doesn't bother you, it should.

[truebrit71]

81. How many people died on blacklists?

How many died in Germany and Europe because of the NAZI cult?

Germany is SUPER sensitive about this issue for that very reason.

They have every right to keep Cruise, and the rest of his cult-members the fuck out of their country.

[Jed Dilligan]

26. We keep people off military sites for all kinds of reasons,

if Germany doesn't want cult members on their military sites, I'd say that's reasonable.

[onenote]

29. serious question: how do you distinguish a "cult" from a valid "religion"

[mitchum]

35. In this country, it seems that the determining factor is if you are awarded the tax dodge...

or not.
And that's why the tax exemption is indeed unconstitutional. The federal government is placed in a position of determining the legitimacy of a "religion" And I am still confounded by the fact that no one has ever challenged the tax dodge on those grounds.

[Jed Dilligan]

40. It's a hazy line, but

these are some criteria I posted in another thread re candidates from cults

--mandatory financial contributions to religious organization
--institutionalized child abuse in the form of child marriage, etc.
--going door-to-door looking for converts
--excessive promises of worldly success, health, etc. to prospective converts
--belief in the imminence of an apocalypse or any real, physical event that will end the secular order of nations and put the religion in control of the earth
--brainwashing: I don't mean the normal brainwashing that comes with any religion, I mean you have to be deprogrammed by professional psychologists to function normally
--refusing modern medical or psychiatric care based on beliefs alone
--and yes, the blech factor. If you have a strong sense that a candidate lives in a science-fiction universe that does not resemble the world you see, I wouldn't recommend voting for that person.

[onenote]

43. I wouldn't necessarily vote for a scientologist, but I would create a rule to keep them working

either.

[Jed Dilligan]

46. I take this to mean

you wouldn't create a rule to keep them from working.

I don't advocate anything of the sort either, but I'm fine with keeping them off military bases. Why bar Al Qaeda and not our homegrown whackos?

[onenote]

47. sorry, but even though I'm no fan of scientology, I'm not going to equate them w/al qaeda

[Jed Dilligan]

62. OK

I'm starting to get the impression you just want to argue with me.

:shrug:

[onenote]

44. if going door to door looking for converts is all it takes, then

I guess most political parties qualify as cults. They also ask for money an awful lot (although its not technically "mandatory"). Political parties also make excessive promises of success, health etc.

[Jed Dilligan]

45. They would have to fit more than one of those criteria

Most political parties don't actively attempt to control people's lives, although plenty volunteer for it...

[Marrah_G]

51. The lack of any sort of diety would be a big hint.

[onenote]

59. so I guess Unitarian Universalists are part of cult

I'm no fan of Scientology, but its awfully dangerous to say that any self- proclaimed religion that doesn't exalt a deity is a cult whose members the government should be free to ostracize by barring them from working. Buddhism? not so much for the deity thing. UU's? Well, here's there principles and purposes -- not deity there either ...


The Principles and purposes of the Unitarian Universalist Association
"We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote"
The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
"The living tradition which we share draws from many sources:"
Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life;
Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love;
Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life;
Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;
Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit.
Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature.

[Marrah_G]

60. The UU church I used to attend never lacked the presence of dieties

Scientology is void of any sort of faith. It is also a cult with the main goal being making money.

I love the inclusiveness of the UU and it's embrace of Wicca and other earth-based religions. In fact all the reference to it the last couple days are making me want to go back again. I think I just might, I've been missing the sense of community.

[Lilith Velkor]

63. The UU church I was raised in never lacked respect for nontheists

The "believers good, unbelievers bad" mentality belongs in cults--not our community.

[Marrah_G]

66. You are reading things into my post that I am simply not saying

[Lilith Velkor]

76. You said "no deity = invalid religion"

That means Buddhists and most UUs. It is intolerance and I'd rather not see it infect the UU church.

[philosophie_en_rose]

65. If you charge money in exchange for a service, it's a business.

Voluntary donations or tithing is not the same. Scientology is a dollar-for-dollar exchange. To call it a religion would make every psychiatrist (their main competition) a religion as well.

And if you collect info from 'confessions' to use against parishioners, you're not a religion. You're extortionists.

And if you charge the 'religion's' equivalent of nuns and priests money, if they leave after working for you for free. You're not a religion. You're a sweatshop and a human trafficker.

[Hamlette]

32. Odd since Germany has mandatory "contributions" to a religion

it is deducted from your pay check and paid directly to the church of "your choice".

[JVS]

34. If you are not affiliated you pay no church tax

[Hamlette]

39. I heard you have to declare but admit I am no expert n/t

[Gin]

36. I was once in a Cult...the Catholic church! Now I am recovering....

John Travolta is a Scientologist.....I like that man.

[Johonny]

37. I'm ok with it.

It's a German Government site not a German public site. So I guess they have to respect the German Governments laws protecting German government assets from assisting cults. It's a little odd to single out the actor aspect of Cruise rather than the producing aspect though... doesn't seem like a "Scientology" film though.

[Karenina]

42. I appreciate your open mind.

Most who have posted here in vehement opposition to the decision HAVE NO CLUE. Let's wait and see what the Scientology PR machine does now. :popcorn: The Germans are highly ALLERGIC to LRH, and for good reason.

[DFW]

49. Greetings from Düsseldorf

I read this thread while here in Düsseldorf, and thought
I'd chip in my two Pfennigs.

My wife is German, and I have been stationed here for many
years. I speak the language fluently, and have mostly German
friends here. I mention that as there are Americans stationed
abroad (both military and civilian) who choose not to interact
with their host country--a mistake in my eyes, but it's their choice.
My wife was born into a Catholic family, left the Catholic church,
and pays no church tax. After the war, there wasn't a lot of religious
diversity left in Germany, if you know what I mean. Today, especially
with the influx of Muslims from Turkey and North Africa and Jews from
Eastern Europe (even some from Israel!), the Church Tax is increasingly
seen as an anachronism.

Germany, understandably enough, is allergic to cults. Scientologists
here have been particularly aggressive in trying to penetrate and then
take over businesses, which, if successful, then contribute money to
the "Church" of Scientology. As Scientology is not recognized as a
religion here, this is extortion and embezzlement under German law.

Free speech here is not the issue here. I would no more expect Germany
to allow a prominent Scientologist to use government installations to
make a film than I would expect the US Army to allow Mel Gibson to use
part of Fort Bragg for the filming of "The Passion of the Christ." Under
the present regime, it wouldn't surprise me to see the latter, but that's
another matter. Like most modern cults, Scientology is, to its higher-ups,
anyway, about money and control, not faith.

Although Nazi propaganda is indeed forbidden here (wonder why?), the
Germans bend over backwards to allow all other speech, even to the point
where their neighbors (not to mention the USA) rag on them for not coming
down harder on Islamic hate groups among "immigrants." They are now starting
to do this, as anti-Jewish propaganda (like bombs in commuter trains)
does not sit well here. But the Islamists have had pretty easy going until
recently, as protection under Germany's free speech laws allowed them a lot
of leeway.

Anyone who equates not allowing a government installation to be used by
a prominent proponent of a money-making cult with Nazism is as good at
twisting things as Tony Snow. Anyone making a film with Tom Cruise has
the financial wherewithal to use a set other than a German Government
installation. Let them spend it.

[AlCzervik]

53. thank you for sharing that, it was informative, interesting and a bit creepy

to hear that Scientology is being that aggressive, i really hate the sound of that.

[onenote]

55. your mel gibson analogy is interesting

First, its decidedly off point in that one might argue that allowing Gibson to use a military base to film a religious-themed movie might be an excessive entanglement of government and religion but the movie in quesiton apparently has nothing to do with religion. Your example would have been more accurate, and probably harder to defend, if it was the government refusing to allow the maker of the movie Broken Arrow or Thin Red Line to use a military installation for filming because the movie's cast included John Travolta.

[EFerrari]

57. Good for Germany! Scientology is a toxic cult X corporation

and it's good to see policy that protects the public from its predations.

[Nikki Stone1]

67. Thanks for the sane post.

Tom Cruise and Scientology need to take a hike

[Quantess]

52. Well, I support Germany in their efforts to subvert scientology.

:thumbsup:

[mainegreen]

68. Good. Why let a member of a corporation that tried to subvert their govt onto a military base?

They would have to be morons to let him on their bases.

[Feron]

71. From what I understand

Tom Cruise brings along Scientologists to his movie sets in order to recruit new members. And along with Scientology's history of harassment, I can see why Germany doesn't want the cult/scam within their borders.

Scientology isn't a religion. When I became a Catholic, it didn't cost me a dime. I'm also not forced to tithe to them either. And there certainly isn't a toll booth at mass. Furthermore, nonbelievers aren't shunned.

Also I don't fear reprisal for speaking out against Church policies I disagree with.

Not so in Scientology where there is a price for everything. You advance only when you can pay the bill. It's not about enlightenment, it's about making money and isolating the person in order to extort more money.

I don't care if people believe in nutty things or believe in nothing at all, but Scientology isn't a religion. It's a scam and a predatory cult. Check out xenu.net.

[onenote]

74. and if that's true, then presumably Germany could do something about it

If under German law it is unlawful to actively recruit new members to scientology, then by all means they can and should stop such activities if they are taking place and, if they are being done at the behest and direction of Cruise, by all means go after him for breaking the law. But nowhere in the article cited by the OP is there any suggestion that the reason the movie is being denied access to the site is because of such activities. Indeed, if that was the case, the demand presumably would be for them to leave the country completely and not film anywhere, even on non military sites. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

Again, I have no sympathy for scientology. In fact a family member once flirted with an interest in it and I was able to point them to information that dissuaded them from getting sucked in. But at the same time, if that family member had made the decision to become a scientologist, I would be outraged if they were then treated as a second class citizen unless they were actively doing something illegal (not just existing).

[B3Nut]

73. That's kinda over the top

I disagree with a lot (most?) of what Scientology teaches (hell, I disagree with a lot of religious ideas these days) but whatever belief system Cruise wants to adhere to is his own business. Blocking filming because one of the actors belongs to an outlawed religion/cult/whatever you want to call it is, IMHO, over the line. Are they going to ban Chick Corea CD's while they're at it? He has based whole albums on Hubbardian themes, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a fantastic musician who makes some really great music. Great art transcends the artist, after all. I don't think Cruise is *that* horrible an actor, actually...though his off-screen behavior is...uh...curious. But whatever, he's not picking my pocket or breaking my leg so I really don't give a shit. Oprah's sofa probably isn't too keen on the guy, but what do I know.... ;)

They *really* need to save their breath and evergy for something that's actually important. Actors in a movie aren't all that important, despite what they might think about themselves... ;) I don't see where he's proselytizing, anyway, or yammering about being covered in the spirits of dead aliens... :D

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[AZBlue]

75. I think the OP title is a bit misleading.

You can film in Germany, no matter what cult or religion you belong to - you just can't film at military sites.

[sleipnir]

77. Good for them, the German government should actively prosecute the Scientolgist cult

They're pretty good at that sort of stuff.

[nealmhughes]

78. Tom Cruise is too old to be von Stauffenberg. He was only 37 when he died.

Why would they film in Germany anyhow? Wouldn't it be cheaper to film in Budapest or Prague? It seems like Prague and Buda are the period piece answers to Toronto for stand ins.

Evidently, the German government is in the firm grasp of Xenu!

I firmly believe that all self-respecting cults need a spaceship, or else face ridicule in extremis. Nation of Islam has a spaceship. Scientologists have their. Only the poor Mormons are left with a golden salamander and magical underwear.