I can't delight in the deaths of others....

[Bicoastal]

Perhaps it's because 3 years ago, I was a hair's breadth away for expiring in my early twenties (and that's another post), but I find I have a very equal-oppurtunity view of death. There are very few people in history whose deaths I'd make light of, and none are around today. Perhaps that makes me a humorless bleeding heart, but then, who here hasn't been called that at some point in their lives?

I'm unable to make light of soldiers dying.

I'm unable to make light of civilans and insurgents dying.

I'm unable to make light of a gold-digging Playmate dying.

I'm unable to make light of a crazy Australian adventurer dying.

I'm unable to make light of a Middle Eastern despot dying.

I'm unable to make light of a Republican Vice President dying.

And you know what? I hate Bush just about as much as anyone here, but if he were to drop dead tomorrow, I certainly wouldn't rejoice in it. I just can't.

When I think of the tiny universes we all carry around in our heads, filled with every person and place, every experience and sensation that exists for us--and then for that universe to suddenly disappear, to be replaced by an unconscious void? All I can say is, there's no pleasure there. There is nothing. If you can't think of any appropriate response to a death, try thinking of nothing for a few seconds. Then move on.

[ceile]

1. K&R

[WI_DEM]

2. I agree

[WI_DEM]

3. I agree

[nashville_brook]

4. thank you for this

finally, some humanity is shown here. thank you.

[Bluebear]

5. If you can't think of any appropriate response to a death, try thinking of nothing for a few seconds

You said it.

[H2O Man]

6. I agree

John Donne

Meditation XVII: No man is an island...


"All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated...As therefore the bell that rings to a sermon, calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come: so this bell calls us all: but how much more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness....No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

[JuniperLea]

7. Good on you!

Way to feed your Karma bank. I wholeheartedly agree.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. No Genuinely Decent And Mature Person Should Be Able To.

Agreed and recommended.

[roguevalley]

9. yes. for some people, someone being dead isn't enough. for my

enemies, I want them to live forever and remember everything they did wrong. I am sorry this poor sad woman is dead. her son is dead. her baby is orphaned. how cruel that is without mocking her.

[smoogatz]

10. Delight?

I haven't read the post you're referring to, apparently. I haven't seen anyone expressing delight at Anna Nicole Smith's death. Just puzzlement at the auto-pilot nature of the emotional outpouring here, and the instant media-swarm on the TeeVee.

[bettyellen]

24. yes, people calling her a walking joke, goldigger. a no talent who deserves no thought at all.

worthless hack.... there's plenty more, and yeah, they were delighted all right.
just people making fun of people for marking her death at all. the usual disrespect your fellow DUer because I learned from SouthPark and think it's cool to be rude and disrespectful bullshit. They were having some fun today.
Where were you?

[smoogatz]

27. Well, I guess I fall into the "who cares" camp to some degree--

there's other news of the day/week/year that strikes me as more moving and important. And I certainly don't buy the "she's just like Marilyn" argument. But delight? Am I glad she's dead? Of course not--and I think the OP is setting up kind of a straw man with that particular choice of words. But I wasn't really torn up when Princess Di augured in, either--though the manner of her death was most appalling. Maybe I'm just a heartless bastard. I'll have to ask my wife.

[bettyellen]

28. i think people are delighting in disrespecting other DUers over this bigtime....

it's the new way of saying i don;t respect your feelings but i can't say it in a snickers thread again.....
and there are some nasty posts about anna that are pretty inappropriate. i don;tbelieve it's real progressive to be judging her for posing naked or marrying an old dude, but that's just the embarrassing place we are at now. it's pretty pointless and immature. this intentionally mean spirited feels distinctly high school to me. i'm hoping it's a band of teenagers who will move on to harassing people in malls.

[smoogatz]

30. I don't judge her for posing naked--that seems like a GOOD thing, IMO.

As for marrying an old dude, whatever floats your boat. Someday, god willing, I'll be an old dude. I don't think she was a very interesting/compelling person, though--kind of the opposite, if her TV show was any indication (I watched one episode a few years back, with some friends out in P'town). But I think it's true that one ought not to speak ill of the dead--so I'll stop now. Peace out--

smoogatz

[Bicoastal]

29. I've seen worse than that, actually...

...not here, but elsewhere. Posts such as "Good Riddance, Bitch!" or "About Time!" and so forth. And then yesterday , I got into an arguement with a fellow liberal about whether it would be "a good thing for everyone" if Bush was assassinated. I dunno, I just felt I had to write something about death and a general callousness that's spread through our culture--unconsciously triggered, I'm guessing, by the numbers of killed soldiers and civilians that stream across the bottom of our television sets and blogs every day.

Didn't expect all these recommendations, though. That's been kind of a suprise...

[smoogatz]

31. Maybe you're onto something.

And maybe there's something wrong with me. But I just don't feel involved in the lives of celebrities the way some people do. The last celebrity death I can remember that really affected me was Stevie Ray Vaughan; now that was a tragic loss. I guess it's partly a matter of what you're into.

[bettyellen]

35. i don't feel involved myself, but others were saying a soldiers death means more

or some singer who was 90 years old (because he wasn't a goldigger, so he mattered more)
and people were literally starting threads to say other lives were more important.
I don't see how it's progressive to be assigning less value because you think a person has less talent or their style was "trashy". Her death was a weird event, a soldiers and a 90 year olds. less so. I didn't feel better or worse when Diana died, or Jackie O but according to people here I should have. :shrug:
But that's not the worst, the worst is the childish, don;t pay attention to this bimbo stuff. Everyone ought to learn to hide threads instead of insulting others.

[Bluebear]

32. You forgot "whore", that was a highlight today

[smoogatz]

34. A bit excessive, yes.

But did it not strike you, shortly after the story broke, that there was excess on the other side, too? That all the "Candle in the Wind" stuff was maybe a little over-the-top, in this case? I really felt that here when Steve Irwin died, too--so maybe it's more a me thing.

[Bluebear]

36. I will let people go over the top in the heat of the moment,

If people are building candlelight shrines to her 4 days from now I would look twice. But within hours I just call it genuine grief.

[bettyellen]

38. People relate to aspects of her I don't grasp. but she's a classic sad exploited

type of woman that some are going to relate to immediately. But she never did anything to earn this vitriol. it's jealousy of the media spotlight and misgoginstic puritanical bullshit. and a real cold hearted attitude for someone dealing with addictions too.
it bothers me to see democratic women judging her on the choices she made along the road, coming up poor like that. it totally bothers me this has given DUers another excuse to disrespect others here.
I found those weird a soldier died - but i tricked you into thinking of anna" threads were very fucked up.

[Bluebear]

40. The saddest: The female soldier would have gotten NO notice otherwise

"But I wanted to prove a point so I picked out a female soldier who died today to give the impression that I am oh so liberal". Now THAT is sick.

[bettyellen]

43. it's fucked up to use an obituary as a bait and switch trick....and as dehumanizing to

that poor soldier as anything that was said about anna today.
and i feel like all this women hating bullying today is just a continuation of the snickers thing.
this is the misogyny no one here wants to own up to. poor nicole was the girliest girl of all, and everyone treats her like a slut or a buffoon because of it.

[Bluebear]

45. I like you a lot. nt

[bettyellen]

46. that goes double for me blue...

it's been a rude few days here, i'm glad you were around responding so often to people who left me speechless.
thanks for that

[bettyellen]

37. I was completely surprised there were so many Steve Irwin fans here

and noted the volume of threads silently. I navigated around them without complaint after reading just enough to satisfy my curiosity. I though the was mildly annoying , never watched much of his show, but is that at all something interesting to share with others? I don't think so. Would I comment on his style or his personal life?
No, because I'm not that judgmental about performers. People feel compelled to critique things just to be contrarian, It gets tiresome..

[SeattleGirl]

11. Thanks, Bicoastal.

Those are my thoughts exactly. :thumbsup:

[bluerum]

12. When my wife died, I kept wondering why her? Why not someone

who "deserved" it?

Who deserves death? Well,,, we all do. We are human and that is our fate. If what you do in life forces others to extinguish your life, then that is indeed a tragedy of sorts. What you do in life, can cause you to lose your life. Your fate is in a very real sense in your hands.

But what about those who have that fate ripped form their grasp, as you nearly did? The Iraqi men, women and babies who die every day? The sick and the poor and weak?

I can honestly say, that I feel like there are those who have earned death. Those who have wrought so much pain and suffering and loss and waste, that they themselves should be cast into the void.

edit. language.

[EV_Ares]

15. I am sorry to hear about your wife, I don't know how long that has been

but I know at times in a fleeting moment, I think, what would I do if I lost my wife, I don't know how I would handle it as she is so much a part of me and has had a big big part in who I am now, I know it would be hard as I know it was for you.

[Midlodemocrat]

13. Neither can I. Regardless of how *I* feel about someone,

they leave behind people and friends who mourn them.

Having been 'those people' WAY too often, I won't celebrate anyone's death.

[EV_Ares]

14. Thanks for this post. I hope she is able to finally find some peace

because she has not had much her entire life. Yes, maybe some bad choices along the way but haven't we all and that doesn't mean no sympathy or understanding at the end.

I hope the media gives her and those around her who loved her some respect and dignity.

[Vincardog]

16. Funny When I died 30 years ago in my 20's I found out death is just

one of the markers of a life.

Fortunately God wouldn't let me in and the devil was afraid I would take over,
so I got to come back for a little more time.

So while I can't delight in the deaths of others....
I have no fear of death itself.

[SoCalDem]

17. Agreed.. I "flat-lined" Nov 11, 1973, and every day since has been a gift.

I was allowed to live to raise the child born that day and his two brothers who came later.

If I died tonight, I would be ok with it. We all go sometime, and mopst of us never know when, where or how it will end.

It's what really separates us from the animal kingdom. Humans are the only living organism that :knows" they will cease to exist someday ..and some people cannot live full lives because they fear their own demise :)

[Vincardog]

18. It is sad when people are so afraid of dieing that they refuse to live.

[Marnieworld]

19. I really like you

This was a wise and courageous statement. A breath of fresh air of original thought. Bravo.

And yes I agree completely. I can't recall a death that pleased me and I hope that I never fell for the temptation of this weak behavior.

Yet, I can also see the benefit of dark humor at times like these. It can be healing or at least comforting to distance oneself from that frightening void that we are all headed.

In any case, welcome to DU! :hi: :applause:

[brer cat]

20. I agree.

We learned this week that Rep. Charlie Norwood (R-GA) is going into hospice care after a battle with lung cancer that has now spread to his liver. I have never agreed with him politically, but I feel great sadness for him and his family. I also respect his courage and tenacity in continuing to do his elected job under such difficult circumstances, even though I knew he would not vote as I would wish.

I am often dismayed at the anger I feel over this * administration, but at least I haven't lost my humanity.

Recommended and :kick:

[catabryna]

21. Couldn't have said it better... K&R

Whenever I see threads like some of those that I've seen here, I can't help but imagine that there would be a few around here who would have been secretly (or overtly) gleeful when my husband died. Why? Because he typically voted independent or republican. I wasn't totally able to convert him before he passed on but he certainly wasn't deserving of a "Rethug" label.

[Turn CO Blue]

22. Exactly! Recommended. n/t

[catrose]

23. Excellent

Thank you.

[kimsterdemster]

25. Bad taste...

i'd hope that we can do better..

I feel for the family, try to imagine if she was a member of your family.

May "God" bless her soul, RIP beautiful Lady.

It is my understanding that people who die do not go to heaven, but must wait til the rapture in order to be with Jesus, right?

[Raine]

26. Neither can I

my parents brought me up better than that and I'm glad they did.

[Bluebear]

33. This "community" has splintered lately. It may be Democratic but it is not progressive

or liberal.

[nonconformist]

39. K & R.

Finally, sanity. Or should I say, humanity.

[Katherine Brengle]

41. Amen -- if GW died tomorrow, I wouldn't mourn, but I wouldn't celebrate either --

there is such a thing as stooping too low.

[RiverStone]

42. a life worth living...

Your not a humorless bleeding heart Bicoastal, but a bleeding heart that cares. That is evident in your post :)

I also felt sad at the insensitivity, and expressed my reaction to that by posting this earlier tonight:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=161074&mesg_id=161074




peace~

RiverStone

[ScreamingMeemie]

44. Well said. We become the very same thing we accuse others of.

It makes us no different...really.

[HappyWeasel]

47. Yea, it is pretty wierd to wake up one day and something being fundamentally different

Some of these people you will mourn some of these people you will feel sorry and some you may even be grateful that the world may then move on....but in the end, when someone you have had to live you life with dies....a bit of you dies as well.

[Straight Shooter]

48. "I'm unable to make light of a gold-digging Playmate dying."

I'm having a difficult time reconciling the inclusion of that disparaging remark, if in fact it refers to Ms. Smith, with the rest of your compassionate post.

:shrug:

[Felinity]

49. That's exactly what I was thinking.

The only negative characterization on the OP's list is the one you mentioned. It stuck out for me right away.

If you're going pitch your "I'm too holy to delight in someone's death" woo, it would be nice not to judge people before you offer a an inherently disingenuous homage for their demise.