Some of you make me sick that I belong to the same species

[Connonym]

I expect to feel that revulsion about Neocons but not for "my" own people. I'm talking about the hatred for people (like me) who are in the first line of victims of the current housing situation. I don't want a hand out, I don't want pity, I'd just like to see a little bit of compassion and some attempt to understand that some of us are losing EVERYTHING we've always been told was the American dream. I hope that when the effects of this continue to ripple through the American economy that you're not one of the next ones hit with the repercussions. This is just starting, this is HUGE and trust me you WILL see the "value" of your house come crashing to the ground when all the cheap foreclosure properties hit the market. Because I'm a fucking bleeding heart, I don't wish this curse on anyone. May the gods of Wall Street have mercy on YOUR soul.

[Joe Fields]

1. I've already been there and done that.

My family and I lost everything we worked for in thirteen years of marriage, (up to that time) and we dealt with it. And when I say everything, I mean everything. All we owned was auctioned off. We had the clothes on our back, and stayed with my sister until we were able to get back on our feet a few months later. The road was hard, and is still no picnic for us, but we never cried on anyone's shoulder. We live and die by the decisions we make. Life goes on. You pick yourself up and dust yourself off and keep on slugging.

[sandnsea]

10. I lost everything in a fire

Oddly enough, it's made me even more empathetic when others are about to lose everything they own. These were predatory lending practices. If you lost everything you have because you were cheated, you should be furious.

Then again, I'm sure there were plenty of people with your attitude during the Depression too.

[Joe Fields]

19. This may make me a lot of enemies here, but no, I don't have much

sympathy. Everyone would like to own their own home, but if you are barely scraping by to do it, and you have an adjustable rate mortgage, and you bit off more house than you can chew to begin with, then you live and learn.

It's not the end of the world.

[sandnsea]

28. That's assuming that's what everyone did

And I'm tired of telling people that their assumptions are just wrong.

Besides, what's the difference if you're scrap by to pay the rent or scraping by to pay the mortgage? Over half the country is scraping by these days.

Oh, and you're damn lucky you had family to bail your ass out of whatever stupidity you caused. Not everybody has that. They just end up homeless.

[Maine-ah]

46. 7 years ago, our income was more than enought to pay

for our mortgage. A 30 year mortgage, which we refi'd to a lower payment too a few years ago. Not an ARM. Our income is really no longer sufficient. The cost of everything has gone up, and we're just scraping by ourselves. So not everyone who is in trouble had an ARM. Lots of us just don't have enough income anymore due to cost increases of living, and employers not giving raises.

[Connonym]

52. yup

I've owned my home since 2000. This whole thing isn't about ARMS and people who could never afford their house in the first place. This is about how circumstances change, there was an economic delusion about real estate prices and sustainable growth. This is not just a correction in the market, this is a catastrophe for the American middle class. This is about the reality shit hitting the fan. Wages are stagnate and the cost of living has sky rocketed. Bottom line, it's about the exploitation of the working class and having us all so deathly afraid of not being able to juggle our finances that we're too terrified to leave our jobs or demand a change. Most Americans have been falling behind for years and living with increased amounts of debt. Wealth and power will continue to be concentrated in fewer and fewer hands and in the end the majority of us will be no better off than serfs or de facto slaves to the corporate machine. When we no longer have boots we'll no longer have boot straps. It's all just another lie.

[NashVegas]

80. nevermind that

Your situation really sucks. Can you take in a roommate?

[Joe Fields]

78. I was lucky, and I was shortsighted, but I don't go around blaming everyone else

for my shortsightedness. I don't revel in other people's misery. But I do marvel at how our society has turned into a "no fault" society, where people blame their problems on everyone else but themselves. Few people anymore are willing to look at themselves in the mirror and say "you know what? I was to blame for what happened to me. I was responsible." It's much more soothing to your conscience to believe other people did it to you.

[Pithlet]

93. But, surely you are aware that it is possible for bad things to happen to people

through no fault of their own? Yeah, personal responsibility, blah blah blah. Since when did acknowledging personal responsibility have to mean ignoring the problems that create bad situations harming blameless people? Since when did Personal Responsibility mean rewarding scam artists and disregarding the need to protect consumers? So, you created your own problems and blame yourself? Fine. You are absolutely to be applauded. But that doesn't mean the situations and circumstances are the same for everyone else.

[treestar]

98. It could be 50/50

or some other variation. It doesn't have to be either all one's fault or all one other entity's. That's a false choice.

[proud2BlibKansan]

120. So my sister in law who lost everything when her husband died

should blame herself?

He dropped dead of a heart attack at age 44. Yes he had life insurance but they had just mortgaged their home to pay off business debts and she had 4 kids, one in college.

She lost his business, her home, and most of her belongings.

But you are saying she should blame herself.

Wow what a progressive attitude.

[Greyhound]

32. Yes you did. good-by. n/t

[LeftishBrit]

60. You and Maggie Thatcher would have got on very well!

I'm sorry you've had things so bad, and congratulations for being able to deal with it; but that doesn't mean everyone can, or that others don't deserve help. There can be a very small margin between 'tough but not the end of the world' and 'essentially the end of the world'.

Your approach reminds me a bit of Norman Tebbit dismissing the problems of the unemployed by saying that HIS father had been unemployed during the depressions and had just 'got on his bike and looked for work'. No doubt he did and good for him; but if for instance you are in bad health or already had to sell that bike to keep your kids warm on the coldest days of winter, that may not be an option. The same with some people being able to cope better than others with losing their home.

[flashl]

63. Could it have been

because of the artificial housing boom, rental rate increases and places without rental caps, forced renters into the housing market?

[bobbolink]

103. Your post is a great example....

...why some of us still say there ain't that much difference between Republican and Democrat.

Thanks for outlining it so very well.

:thumbsdown:

[ooglymoogly]

111. What a f*cking absurd remark.

People are not losing their homes because they made a mistake. They are losing their homes because of a greedy lousy government who has managed to squeeze every last penny out of the economy to hand over to cronies through war and pillage.

[Tesha]

125. So people who took out ARMs when interest rates were at near-record lows...

So people who took out ARMs when interest rates were at
near-record lows were victimized by the "greedy lousy
government"???

Are you kidding? Even a *FOOL* would know that when mortgage
interest rates were dancing around 4.5-5%, near their historical
record lows (that hadn't been seen since the boom at the end
of WWII). that there was *NO PLACE* for an ARM to adjust but
upwards. And so if one couldn't afford the fixed-rate mortgage
on their house of choice, maybe they needed to scale back their
plans a little. Lots of us lived through years of renting
*AND* living in starter homes/fixer-up homes.

Maybe going right from the 1 bedroom apartment to the
McMansion financed by a teaser-rate, interest-only ARM
wasn't the best plan?

Tesha



NB: This post takes *NO POSITION WHATSOEVER*
on people who bought within their means, financed intelligently,
and then had the rug pulled out from under them because of
changes in health, forced changes in employment, or unforeseeable
natural disasters. Those folks have my full sympathy and I'll
gladly back government help for all of them, for example,
National Health Care.

[ooglymoogly]

128. What I am saying is "means" have changed drastically over the

last 7 years with energy going up 300%, oil co.s making obscene profits and people losing their jobs to outsourcing, Gas prices, food prices and on. It is just going to get worse. So in hind sight of course it was foolish to take out low interest mortgage that might rise assuming they could refinance at that time. It is not unheard of in a good economy, folks assuming they had the wherewithal to weather the storm. Nobody but us die hards on DU and similar sites predicted a category 10 hurricane that would stagger the economy of the middle class and devastate the elderly and poor while the rich get richer off the spoils.

[Whisp]

75. it's more like we live and die by the ruling class decisions. nt

[BlackVelvet04]

102. You may not have cried on her shoulder

but you DID live with your sister. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have a family member to live with. Your compassion is overwhelming......(yes, that's sarcasm.)

[LeftyFingerPop]

122. Pick yourself up by your boot straps....

When the going gets tough, the tough get going.

A smile is a frown turned upside down.

Don't cry over spilled milk.

I'm sorry for what happened to you, but I see that in some ways you didn't survive it. It you weren't this way already, then the situation has turned you into a jaded and judgmental individual who seems to think that one size fits all.

If you had some insurmountable issue (and yes, some issues are indeed insurmountable) while all this other stuff was happening to you, I doubt if you would say "life goes on", or you never "cried on anyone's shoulder". For your sake, I hope you never have to. I doubt if a person like you could handle THAT.

[Skittles]

2. WHO is revolting you, Connonym?

I WILL KICK THEIR ASS

[BeHereNow]

4. Get'em GIRRRRRLLLL!

me too, I want to kick some asses tonight too!
Not naming names, but trust me- I am ready to KICK some
asses tonight!
We've got some SERIOUS ass-clowns on here tonight.
BHN
:smoke:

[0007]

12. Man! I get so pissed at times I have to go down to the Triple "T"

Truck Stop to beat up truck drivers that hate Hillary, just to find sanity.

[Whisp]

74. can I get in line for some ass kicking too?

People are Suffering in this economy and it makes me very angry to hear smug heartless assholes blame the victims.

I've got my pointy toe nobnail boots on.

grrrrrrr.

[Cerridwen]

3. K & R and...

:hug:

For whatever it's worth - I wish you luck and much, much hope that you survive well what's happening in your life right now and come out the other side with all the best this world can offer. Some of us do understand.

[Cleita]

5. I so sorry you got caught in this.

It's always the hard working little people who have to pay for the greed and mistakes that the capitalists make. I wish to see every single one of them in jail one of these days when our democrats finally take charge and start bringing back the regulations and laws that kept disasters like this from happening before the conservatives got a stranglehold on our government.

[datavg]

13. Dennis For President?

Do you really think David Rockefeller and the Bildeberger crowd would ever let that happen?

Bill Clinton didn't even know what NAFTA was until David Rockefeller asked for his support. They say he was made President because he went along with it.

You guys don't have a clue as to who's in charge. No idea at all.

[Cleita]

I don't know about the Bildeberger consortium. It sounds too illuminati

tinfoil hat to me. But I do think there is an oil cartel who is running our country right now led by the Saudis and given a lot of help from the UAE and Qatar. As someone said on the teevee the other night, Cheney is running the country from inside the pants of the Saudi king.

[Cleita]

17. Dupe.

[BeHereNow]

6. You speak the truth.

It's getting scary on DU some days.
Can't tell the lunatic hate mongers on the left
from the one's on the right.

I am so very sorry for all of us.
It's the biggest scam ever pulled in history
and the repercussions are going to hit far and wide.

BHN:hug:

[krispos42]

7. Isn't it fascinating?

You have a moral and legal obligation to pay back money you borrowed, yet there is no similar obligation for companies to be selective in who they give THEIR money to or how much they lend?

About how YOU are suppose to know everything about the morgage business so you don't get in trouble, yet the lending companies can just lend money to everybody and anybody and be SHOCKED, SHOCKED I TELL YOU that loaning money to some people is maybe a bad idea?

That YOU must be PUNISHED for not getting a business degree before a morgage, yet the banks that loan out thirty year's wages to anybody with a pulse get a fat bailout?

Completely fascinating! :sarcasm:



(This is not critical of you, BTW. It takes two to tango, and IMHO the burden should fall more on the banks, which have wexperts by the battalion to figure out what kind of risk people are and how much they should be loaned)

[leftofthedial]

8. you always have a place at my house

my couch is comfy and I generally have good food.

We're in for a long siege of helping our brothers and sisters.

[Warpy]

9. I understand that some people were sold a dream

by motormouthed salesmen. I know ARMs were pushed hard at me, a single woman buying a house. I had to scoop up my papers and head for the door to get them to stop talking tommyrot and start talking 30 year fixed. A lot of people out there just aren't sophisticated enough to do that. It's not like they bother teaching any of this stuff in high school. They'd rather teach you that condoms are bad and there's another NCLB test coming up soon so let's memorize some more dry facts.

I know most people heard "you can get more house with an ARM for less money" and thought that was a great deal. I know people heard "nothing down, and your rate won't change for years" and didn't ask hard questions about how big that change was going to be when the rate changed. I have a great deal of sympathy for such folks. Like I said, nobody teaches us this stuff. I learned in the 80s when I saw friends get screwed.

No, my rage is for the construction giants that overbuilt housing, the mortgage lenders that oversold ARMs to people they knew damned well would probably lose everything when the rate went up, to the real estate sales folks who didn't inform their clients what could happen to adjustable rates, to speculators who drove the price of housing to insane levels, and most of all to the hedge funds who laundered these shaky loans into assets and sold them throughout the financial community. My rage is for all the people along the line with their hands out who made their money on every one of these screwball transactions, they got theirs, fuck you.

A lot more of us stand to lose everything than just the people who got screwed by the lenders and took out ARMs as the extent of the laundering by hedge funds into pensions, banks, brokerages, and insurance companies becomes known. Think ENRON, but multiplied by about a billion. The loss is likely to be in the trillions, and no economy can withstand that without most of us being badly hurt.

You might feel alone right now because your loss is immediate and personal, and having slightly more sophisticated people sneer that you should have known better is salt in the wounds. No, you shouldn't have known better. You should have been informed at the time you took out that mortgage and you weren't. That's what the problem is, not you. You got robbed and so will the rest of us as all this churns through what's left of the US economy.

[Connonym]

16. it's not entirely my lack of financial sophistication

although there is some of that and I was absolutely lied to by my mortgage broker. I was hit with a whammy on my income and I tried to do the responsible thing and sell what I could no longer afford to own. Powers beyond my control made the market dive, made my house worth less than what I owed on it. And FYI? I'm losing 20% equity I put as a down payment on my house. Poof. It's gone at the whim of the housing market. That was everything I had. It was my safety net for retirement. I believed that it was an investment in my future as well as my home. It's all gone now because of matters outside of my control. And I'm not going to lie, my heart is broken, I'm terrified for my future, I'm sick with the thought that the American dream is a lie and that now I may not be able to send my kids to college and that I may go into retirement (or more likely, will work until the day I die because I won't be able to afford retirement) not only with my 401K depleted by losing my house but STILL paying the bank back. I refuse to believe that I deserve that or that 99% of the people it's happening to deserve that.

[TreasonousBastard]

23. No, you don't deserve that, and it sucks...

I haven't seen where people slammed you for being the victim, but I don't doubt it happened.

I also don't doubt that a fair number of those who slam you are living in their mother's basements or copping a bunk with friends, and are getting their licks in because you almost got what they couldn't. Now, they can kick you while you're down, and that, in its own way, as bad as what the crooked mortgage brokers did to you.

The ones who safely have theirs and look down on you for being caught up in this are no better.

We're supposed to be the good guys here.

[CitizenLeft]

25. I am so sorry

:-(

I wish you the best and hope that it's not long before you see the light of day again. Hang in there.

[glowing]

27. Oh, me too... If I hadn't been so educated about the system and

listening to many here and elsewhere, it would be easy to be duped. My husband couldn't understand why I kept saying fixed rate.. It may be more, but is much more stable in the long term... I walked away from many brokers because they would try to fix up a package that was financially unsound... Thanks to pricing that dropped, I was able to buy the home at a decent rate, and thanks to a HUD program that we qualified, was able to put 0 down on a 30yr fixed with a PMI of $64.00 a month.. to boot, we still have a good 20 to 30,000 in equity already built in. It was a foreclosed property... most in that neighborhood are not, and most do still sell for 150.. even in a downturned market... So, in a few years, if need be, I will sell and get a larger house if our family needs dictate it.. If not, I'll stay put on my little peice of dirt. My true hopes are to move out of Floriduh and to North Carolina, so we are closer to our family. Thank God I had a great mortgage person. He was so good, honest, and treated me like I was his daughter... He never once told me a number that was unexpected or hidden. Great person that I highly reccomend if anyone needs help in the Tampa Bay area. Now, if we can only get ole' Crist to stop looking at his campaign dollars and truly fix the property and insurance mess, we might head in the right direction. He needs to walk away from his repug cronies a little bit more and truly be his title "the people's governor".

[seriousstan]

11. What are the facts in your particular case?

[JDPriestly]

14. I'm on your side. Everyone who has bought a house has

lost a lot of money. The economy is lousy. I remember how Bush bragged about the large numbers of people becoming first-time homeowners. That was about the only "proof" he had for his claim that the economy was good thanks to his tax cuts for the rich. And now, we see the reality. Individual homeowners are not to blame. Wealthy interests completely control our economy. They have manipulated and played with values and money and numbers to the point that nobody knows what is real and what is fantasy. No individual homeowner can be blamed. The banks and mortgage companies bear a lot of fault, but Bush's buddies as usual are the real culprits. The facts were fixed around the policy on home ownership just as they were on Iraq.

[Singular73]

15. The Housing Situation?

Did someone put a gun to your head when you sign the papers?

I don't believe people that make 50K a year, and bought 500K houses should really be that suprised.

People act as though the banks are cashing in on all this -- the reverse is true, heads are rolling, and bad loans are costing everyone a lot of money.

If anything, I don't believe that Bush should let the banks off with corporate wellfare...the market needs to sort this out..if it doesn't, we will have endless bubbles.

[Connonym]

22. you assume a lot

I didn't buy a 500 k home on a 50k salary, I bought a modest home, the typical 3 x my annual income with 20% down payment. I put a lot of money into upgrading it, energy efficient windows, new siding, etc, another 30K or so. My work took a giant hit, my income fell, I tried to sell what I could no longer afford but nobody's buying. I was even willing to take a loss and 11 months later nothing. And now people are lined up waiting to feed on my hopes and dreams and you bet your fucking ass that there will be corporations and wealthy people buying up property for pennies on the dollar, holding onto it and when this finally turns around gouging the hell out of a whole new generation. I get letters from them every fucking day offering to take my house off my hands for about 1/2 of what I owe. It is beyond my control that my job went south (and I even got a second job to try to balance things out), it's beyond my control that the "value" of houses took a steep nosedive. I'm not a greedy pig, I didn't jump into something for nothing. I'm guilty of this: of believing that homes were an investment, believing the commonly held perception that value would only go up and holding on too long trying to juggle and work an extra job to make it through what I thought was temporary. I screwed that up but most of this was beyond my control. I'm willing to accept culpability for my part in what happened but I'll be fucked by Vlad the Impaler before I accept responsibility for the market nosediving or accept the guilt that so many supposed liberals are trying to cast about this situation. I've lost everything but my self-respect and the lot of you can try to look down your noses at me all you want and my response will be my middle finger.

[robinlynne]

35. Can you try to rent out a room for a while and live more simply to keep your house?

I know these little solutions ound like a pin in the ocean, but when you add them all up, they can add up to enough to get by for a year or two, and by then maybe the whole situation will get better. If we get Edwards in, for example, he's not going to let all these people lose their homes. Seems to me it would be pretty simple for the government to just tell the lenders no. As in all mortgages will have interest at or below 6%, and the banks need to swallow the rest.

[tkmorris]

31. A couple of problems here

First of all, do you really assume that everyone facing losing their house is in a $500,000 house on a $50k income? That isn't true you know. Oh there are a few folks out there who made ridiculous decisions, and lived far beyond their means, but they are by no means the majority.

Furthermore, there were two parties involved in these poorly thought out mortgage deals. People like the OP, who will lose everything they have and then some for their error, and the banks that wrote the mortgage. The OP will pay for his error many times over, but what of the party that made the error on the lenders side?

They will NOT pay for their mistake. You see, the "bank" is merely a corporate entity with no proper existence per se. No, the people responsible for the poor lending practices are actually the CEO's, CFO's, and other high level executives who work there. They suffer no penalty for their short-sighted, profits-right-now-who-cares-about-long-term thinking. They merely take their multi-million dollar parachute ride away from the bank, usually to settle in a similar position elsewhere. The only people left holding the bag on the banks side are the poor schmucks who were unable to sell their stock in it before the bottom fell out, and that isn't the execs either. They see the writing on the wall well before anyone else does and get out of the way.

It happens again and again. A "corporation" screws up and the people actually responsible skate aways with millions in pillaged loot while you and I ultimately pay for the damages.

[orleans]

44. your compassion is underfuckingwhelming.

did somebody put a gun to their head? give me a fucking break! implying the op did your 50k/500k example! oh pleease

[blondeatlast]

56. But the banks are supposed to know better. They just lapped up Greenspan's

completely wacked advice and now your co-workers, friends, and family are going to suffer.

If a few of the banks die because of this, I'll shed a few for those who lose their jobs. But not for the CEOs who thought Greenspan was Godlike in his powers.

If people are going to lose their homes over this, let's start with the Greenspan cultists...

[earth mom]

99. You need to educate yourself. Because the entire country has been SCAMMED.

The mortgage SCAM-and it is a TOTAL SCAM-has mainly been perpetrated mostly on the middle class & working class who were targeted as easy marks.

What this scam is gonna do to the ENTIRE economy of this country...well, who knows at this point-but I doubt it's gonna be pretty-can you say Great Depression?!

More on the Mortgage SCAM here:

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/346/video.html

[Mnemosyne]

108. Be careful what you criticize in others, what goes around

really does come around. Sooner or later.

Your total lack of empathy is very saddening to me.

[MADem]

18. People who gloat at the misfortunes of others are assholes.

I think that the banks should, for their own solvency and well being, just rewrite the terms and move along smartly. If they've got to make it a longer mortgage, oh well. If they have to lower the interest rate, well, there ya go.

It beats having the homes sit empty.

My neighbors are trying to sell their place before it becomes obvious that there's a problem. Good luck--dead of winter, most expensive house in the 'hood, and even though it's deeply discounted, I always believed that this neighborhood was "overvalued" by the New Yuppies who drove prices up absurdly.

I live in a house that is valued at well over half a million, but it is our family joint. We pay out the original cost of the home every four years, through real estate taxes. Hell, WE couldn't afford to live here NOW, if we were moving!

[Auntie Bush]

20. Why are you so unhappy? What's your problem? Stop whining. Don't you

know the economy is doing great and the stock market is over 13000 and we don't have inflation and we have jobs galore. Well that's what I hear from our crooked blind lying administration and our corporate MSM. I guess you didn't get the message. Now just take a sleeping pill and go to bed...if you can find one...and everything will be great in the morning.


Seriously....I'm very sorry such awful things happen to so many nice people/Democrats. Bet not many Republicans are losing their homes.

[ingac70]

21. I seriously doubt....

Only Democrats got suckered into subprime ARMs.

[Auntie Bush]

26. True but I'll bet the large majority are Dems...but I hope you are right.

I just wish they were all Rethugs and then they'd turn against this administration. But like they say...some are so stupid they vote against their own issues...because they love this Godly (god awful) president.

[Donnachaidh]

112. that's not true

"Bet not many Republicans are losing their homes."

I live in a VERY red area and the for sale signs are popping up faster than I've EVER seen them. And the foreclosure listings are jumping in leaps and bounds. Yes, they too are losing their homes. And it must be doubly galling for them, when their leadership has been telling them the economy's fine.

[Contrary1]

24. I'm helping a good friend pick up the pieces and start over...

She's made some really bad decisions the last few years. Went from a job paying $72k to a $29k one. Filed bankruptcy and then faced foreclosure. I made her last 5 car payments, so she would not lose that as well. She moved from a 2-story cabin on 10 acres to an apartment, and was lucky to get that, given her credit history.

My husband and I had to start over again back in '76. Different circumstances, but same result.

It will be hard for you, and there will be tears. But, in the end; you are not losing everything. You have family and friends, and hope for a brighter future.
I wish you well. :pals:

[CitizenLeft]

116. bless you for helping your friend

:thumbsup:

[CoffeeCat]

29. I just wanted to chime in here...

...because it sounds like you were referring to the post I started--in which
I said that it is immoral to bail out those who were losing their homes due
to foreclosure.

If you weren't talking about something I said, please pardon the intrusion, but
it sounds like you might have been referring to my post.

I wanted to make clear that my original post was not about people who are losing
their homes because the lost a job, or their income was decreased or they
are the victims of a personal tragedy.

It sounds like you are losing your home due to unexpected changes in income, and
that is a tragedy and I am so sorry for your situation. I do have sympathy for you
and I am sorry. I do hope that things get better.

My original post was about people who purchased expensive homes, knowing that they
would be up a creek once the first year of "teaser-rate" payments were over. I
believe that materialism and consumerism is rampant. Many got into these homes
because of greed and because they were attempting to keep up with the Jonses. They
knew those teaser rates would end and their payments would double--they ignored that
to get into the house. Now, we're seeing the consequences of this.

I don't hate these people or wish bad things on anyone! I think that too many
Americans have bought into the materialism. All of us (including myself) need
to stop buying things we can't afford and learn to rely on people and each
other--not things.

If people get bailed out, you still have people living in houses they can't afford.
That isn't helping someone. I wish good fortune for all of these people, and the
only way they'll get it is by living within their means (in peace) and learning from
these mistakes.

Again, I am so sorry for your situation. I hope you land on your feet and that
things improve for you.

[nashville_brook]

69. there but for the grace of god goes ANYONE -- greed is too easy a bugaboo

many got into "too much house" b/c that's all the market offered in growing areas where the jobs are (south Florida, most of CA, etc).

people with children, have found themselves "in too much house" b/c that's where the decent schools are. or where the crime rate is low enough to raise a family.

a lot of people had to take ARMs b/c of the necessity of keeping up two mortgages in a job move. when you have two mortgages, your credit rating is naturally lower (subprime) than it would be with just one.

it's hard to have sympathy for investors/speculators, b/c they are supposedly responsible for creating the bubble that made housing too expensive for families. but then, people invested in real estate b/c they no longer have pensions that would provide for their income in old age.

then there's the reality that every foreclosure leaves a larger neighborhood of blameless fixed-raters with a blighted community (we have 3 blighted foreclosures on our very tidy middle class cul de sac and 5 more properties with for sale signs that have gone from brokered to FSBO). every blighted community leaves a larger economy of contractors, real estate agents, home improvement suppliers, laborers and paper pushers in dire straits.

this crisis touches everyone -- even the righteous.

[Pithlet]

94. I wish I could K&R this post.

:thumbsup: This situation is way too complex for anyone to feel smug and superior. Very few of us are immune to the effects of this whole mess, no matter how intelligent and financially savvy we are. I think the posts slamming the victims are a self defense mechanism. Watching this house of cards fall is scary, and it would be nice to think one is immune from something like that ever happening to them.

[nashville_brook]

123. in the NPR debate yesterday, a meme emerged that scared the shit out of me...

"we have to STOP wall street speculation." Kucinich and Biden both hit this note, and i think Edwards too. this is terrifying because politicians aren't known for publicly sounding alarms, so i'm thinking that if it's being said out loud -- it's already too late.

truth be told, it was already too late when people turned from speculating on wall street to speculating in real estate -- it's what happened right before the first Great Depression. the fact that the subprime paper has been spread out in the global market is the clincher. we are already "soaking in it." we are already in a depression, with homes losing value in the double digits every month.

[Karenina]

96. Such a LOVELY backpedal.

[CoffeeCat]

105. Explain how I'm backpedaling...I'm not.

I stand by my original comments. There is nothing in this post
here that contradicts or "backpedals" on my original statement.
Nothing.

But I'll be happy to entertain your opinion of exactly what I backpedaled
on.

I firmly maintain my original point---that people who buy a home, while
ignoring the fact that they won't be able to afford it two years from now--
while being fully aware of that fact---should't be bailed out. I'm talking
about buys base on GREED, not about people who get into a home, then lose a
job and need help.

Geez. One minute, I'm in a room full of "liberals" and
the next I'm being piled on by a bunch of rabid weasels.

[Karenina]

121. You're a hard one Ms 2Sparkles...

I LOVE the way you set yourself up as the arbiter of who is "worthy," or "deserving" and who is not. Beacon of right thinking and behaviour that you are I do wish all the best for you and your family. May no circumstance, self-inflicted or beyond your control ever visit you.

[Greyhound]

30. I know just how you feel. The all-American feeling that 'we' are far too smart

for anything like that to happen to us. It's all 'you' losers that get taken.:puke:

We've just stopped sinking (hopefully), and are beginning the long climb back to the place where we can get out of this trap. Seven years ago I was what most people would consider very well off, thanks to the neocon policies started under Raygun and finalized by Clinton, it has been a downward spiral ever since. I did nothing wrong, made no bad decisions (except possibly for going into IT in the first place), have always done far better than was expected on each job, and have always exceeded my clients expectations.

Turns out that was the problem. I was too good, I made too much money and know my business too well. Thanks to the fact that cheap is better than good, and in spite of the fact that I was one of the very best at what I did, I am thoroughly unemployable in my field. It doesn't even matter that I'm willing to work for a fraction of what once made.

c’est la vie.

Look at it this way, we're that much further ahead of those that will follow.

ETA: I do have the pleasure of knowing that I'm no longer contributing $60K+ a year to this criminal enterprise known as our government

[ShaneGR]

33. I'm not sure where you got the "hate" vibe

I don't hate you, and I would consider myself to be a moderate liberal.

[Connonym]

34. oh I don't know, the notion that we all got into this mess because we were trying to scam the system

The same lie brought to you by the people who try to tell you that people who have to declare bankruptcy are all scamming too, and people on welfare? every one of them a lying motherfucker as well. I've seen the word immoral used here, I've seen people write that we deserve what happened to us, I've seen that we're naive at best and stupid being a better alternative than the claim that tried to scam the system. The hate wasn't so much stated as implied. You may vary in your interpretation but it sure as hell feels like hate on my end of the stick.

[countryjake]

36. Welcome to the "Hain't Got A Pot to Piss In Club"...

our membership greets you warmly with hugs and a cupajoe...blankets if you need them; a saggy couch to rest your head, if you have no luck finding a place to move; donations from the Gleaners and Food Banks and Helping Hands, when food shortage worries replace inability to rent; and most importantly of all, friendly smiles and clear understanding that once the shit hits the fan, we are all in this together, no matter where we were before or where we were headed when reality struck.

Contrary to popular belief, it is not a dog-eat-dog world...that is the "American Dream", where you ignore and outdo your neighbors to "get yours"...we of the disenfranchised know that the dream is and always has been a myth and we've got the bony fingers to prove it, years of service, seniority, broken-back dues, with nothing to show for our labors. But we offer solidarity and compassion to all who see this system for what it is.

I surely hope things will look up for you and if you are losing a homestead, I hope you haven't got children or pets or livestock...they always suffer the most when the unexpected happens and those consequences can bring lasting heartbreak for you, so plan ahead if you can. But please, just keep in mind, you are not alone, there are millions who have gone before you into the fucked up funk that truly is America.

[Connonym]

38. right now I'm staying with family and I can keep my dogs

but the odds of being able to rent something and keep my dogs is very unlikely. That, I think, is the most painful part and the thing that I can't bear thinking about. My daughters will always have a home with their dad I know they'll be safe no matter what but my furry babies, that thought keeps me up at night.

[countryjake]

41. Another big hug for you & cuddles to your woofies!

I lost everything a long time ago, but the memory of my flocks, my sweet pets, the torture that my daughter suffered because of my failure to think ahead; the whole experience was shattering but my furry and feathered friends are what haunt me to this day. Nobody rents to folk with animals anymore. Can you take in people, do you have extra rooms you could board out? I tried that but not near soon enough, thinking that somehow privacy in our home was so important to my child. Funny, it's been more than a decade and I haven't really had any privacy since the day we pulled out of the driveway of that house. It's not all that it's cracked up to be, actually. Taught me something about sharing and sharing alike.

You have my complete sympathy here and just keep in your mind, people don't really know til they've been there, that's all.

[CitizenLeft]

117. I know your fear

I have no children either, but I have 3 dogs. If I had to give them up... I won't finish that thought.

There might be foster homes out there that will keep your dogs for you for a short while if necessary. I can't swear to that, but, failing that, there are places that take even senior dogs. I know petfinder.com is primarily for adoptions, but they also list places that rescue, too. And even failing THAT, there are people who network about rescues and last-resort situations who are fiercely protective of the dogs they take in. Someone might be able to help. Take a look there, just in case... that's how I adopted my sweet Sandy 4 years ago, from a foster home I found on that site.

But I'm hoping you won't have to.

[B Calm]

39. Now that's reality! Great Post!

[eppur_se_muova]

37. Whatever happened to "there but for the grace of god go I"?

(I'm an atheist, and I have no trouble with the concept.)

None of us is so smart or gifted with so much foresight that we can anticipate, and prepare for, the lurches and upheavals of huge, invisible (and secretive) market forces, even assuming we have the wherewithal (read: wealth) to take the necessary precautions. That idea should have died when the Great Depression hit.

[nashville_brook]

70. everyone is touched by this crisis -- even the "blameless"

the collapsing economy is leaving people out of work; blighting neighborhoods; siphoning money out of tax rolls; and making us all that much poorer.

it's shameful that people need to victim-blame -- but, i suppose that lower-rung of human nature needs to vent somehow.

[Raine]

40. I agree sometimes the heartlessness

I see expressed over any number of things here in the DU makes me ashamed, angry, sick to my stomach and sick at heart. :-(

[Missy Vixen]

64. Raine, thank you and amen

There are some seriously toxic people here masquerading as Democrats and as adults.

Julie

[goodgd_yall]

42. It's surprising when reading some of the hardass posts here

that their writers actually call themselves Democrats. I guess it's that "right wing" faction of the Democratic Party.

[MiniMe]

43. I've been seeing an ad on TV lately for payday advances

It states that "we follow all state and federal rules about full disclosure", and that is basically what the ad says. Come get a payday advance from us, and we will fully disclose how bad we are going to rake you over the coals, because we aren't doing things illegally like we used to.

I just want to kick in my TV every time I see or hear it.

:hug: I haven't been there yet, but things are getting very tight. My best wishes to you and your furbabies.

[backscatter712]

73. If it were up to me, every one of those payday loan places would be burned to the ground.

They're only better than mafia loan sharks in that they don't usually send thugs to break your kneecaps if you can't make your payments, but they're made from the same cloth. They're nothing but usurious thieves who make a business model out of exploiting the poor.

[MiniMe]

76. I agree totally. I just can't get over that the entire ad was

We follow government regulations for disclosure. Well, Duh! Every lending company should, and it shouldn't be something that needs to be advertised. It makes me want to bank my head against the wall!

[JerseygirlCT]

91. Those predatory loans should absolutely be made illegal

They're horrible.

Notice how all those commercials started appearing just as the RE market started to tank and loans started to smell?

I think we need much stricter regulations about lending in general. Clear terms -- clear to a layman, not a professional -- need to be the cornerstone.

[xchrom]

45. as a home owner who would like to move to a different part of the country -- i'm with you.

it's been painfull in the extreme to watch the pressure on the market these times have brought.

and what has been assett -- and still is really -- is now slowing down my ability to manipulate my life.

any way -- my circumstances aren't exactly like yours -- i TOTALLY realte.

you have my sympathies -- and yes i find the responses here to the falling of the housing market distasteful in the extreme.

[Caretha]

47. Believe me, we are all in this together

Those that are denigrating and pointing their fingers are actually scared shit-less. This whole economy has been based on a house of cards (not meant to be a pun), and soon it will affect everyone in America. You are just the tip of the iceberg, the canary in the mine so to speak, and you did not do anything wrong.

You like all of us, that have/had the "American Dream", believed if you worked hard, saved, invested in a home to call your own and towed the line, that down the road you would be able to get off the slave treadmill and have some stability to enjoy a few years of freedom. Maybe be able to bounce a grandchild on your knee, help shore up your children when they faced tight times in their lives, possibly even get to travel some and visit family and friends. Those dreams, those choices you made to realize them, the hard work, saving & scrimping to make them actualities and then seeing it all go up in smoke is heartbreaking and shocking. But you will survive!

I did and so have many others before and after me. There is a paradigm shift that is about to happen to this generation. Those who grew up believing that hard work, honesty and integrity would get you ahead, and when it's recognized that the game has been rigged, it is going to be mind blowing. It is also going to be painful. But I believe when we come out on the other side of this mess that people in the US will have a whole new perspective, and their priorities will be more reality based.

Keep your chin up and realize that this is a journey, and you never know where you are going anyway until you get there.

[LWolf]

48. It sounds like you need

a hug. :hug:

The American culture is saturated with dysfunctional values: arrogance, competition, and bullying are glorified. Empathy, kindness, and humility are given lip service, but not much more.

Still, there are many people out there who don't allow their lives, and their perspectives, to be ruled by mainstream culture. Housing is run like health care in this country, with profits first. I'd like to see housing become something affordable for ALL, removing the investment aspect, myself. But that's just me.

[The2ndWheel]

49. Physical reality catching up to everyone is going to suck, nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

50. I'm sorry for your plight, Connonym

Although I've never been a homeowner, I have been in situations where I would have been homeless if my relatives hadn't bailed me out. It can happen to anyone, given the right "perfect storm" of circumstances.

The lack of compassion that I see daily on this board, much of it, I suspect, from smug yuppie-Democrats, is really disgusting, and I don't care what anybody says: it's getting worse.

[blondeatlast]

51. I saw that disgusting thread and the ignorance just kills me. I've got your back, my friend.

No one in your situation wants a handout, they just want (and absolutely deserve) some help. Thers' lots of ways to help that will benefit ALL homeowners and not even hurt the banks, either.

A housing crisis benefits no one but the banks--but some so called "progressives" solution is to let our brothers and sisters suffer. Not mine. The banks need to suck up, take a hit, and keep people in their homes.

You speak the truth--everyone is going to suffer bug time with massive foreclosures. I pray every day that won't happen--my parents lived through the Depression and I know very well the long term effects it had on them.

:hug:

[Stinky The Clown]

53. I think you're the victim of a financial mugging

The criminals being the CEOs at places like Countrywide and Citifinancial.

They INVENTED that phony paper they shoved in your hand and smooth talked you into signing. They drooled over the vig they were about to get at your expense.

They just never thought George's war would bankrupt the country. They figured you'd grow into perpetual payment increases, keeping your after-shelter dollars forever just above the poverty line. Now that they find out their Ponzi scheme is falling apart because President Ineptitude is a fuck-up, they're eager to change policy and have the government bless it so they can avoid a total melt-down.

In the meantime, the self-righteous harpies on YOUR OWN SIDE just love to tell you you watched one too many "Flip That House' show.

100,000 resetting ARMS a month for the next 18 months. That's 1.8 million families. I hope the self-righteous harpies NEVER find themselves in such a position. If they do, They better not ask ME for help.

[blondeatlast]

54. Word, Stinky. There's an awful lot of "holier than thou-ness" in this

issue. People simply too stupid to see what plummeting property values is going to do to all of us.

[Warpy]

67. Financial mugging. Well said, Stinky

The truth is that the mugging will continue all through the deregulated conservative economy and that all of us are going to get hurt, sooner or later, one way or another.

There is no way an economy can absorb this much of a loss without coming very close to collapse. I see nothing from either party that even comes close to addressing what needs to be done to fix this mess.

[seabeyond]

55. it is a lesson learned.

i have been poor. i have had money.

the hard truth is the people that took out these loans were not making good conservative choices for future. too good to be true was not appreciated. and because of those actions, the choice individuals made, the risk with those choices, they will now suffer a repercussion. i don't think it is the end of the world. because always there is opportunity. and always there is a higher. how you walk this time in life, will be your choice, and yours to create. you could end up feeling stronger, and more proud of yourself and see all that you can do. can end up being a revelation for you that will stay with you a lifetime. it can even be a blessing

so no, i don't chose to see the people experiencing this as victims, weak and helpless. wouldn't that be a slap to these people. i chose to see that they are the empowered to create what they want to live.

the people, (banks) that have allowed this was out of greed. again, their lesson to learn. let them experience it. no sympathy. they created, they own.

and as it effects me, i accept. even though i have made conservative choices, do without, yada yada (i am older, beyond the inexperience of youth) i understand that i will feel the repercussion of so many making poor choices. and that too is ok, cause always opportunity, it will be mine to create and my lesson to learn

cold hearted, that is the half empty view. resilient?.... that is the half full view.... opportunity? overflowing.

[Beelzebud]

57. Not all of us are assholes that live in a bubble.

And I take no joy in any person losing their home.

[Deep13]

58. Well, that's unfortunate.

Personally, I blame the victims. Gigantic banks and mortgage companies with their army of salesmen and advertisers are pure, innocent creatures that shit streams of daffodils and leave all refreshed by their virtue. I like to bath in the warm light of their interest rates in order to achieve oneness with the universal corporate consciousness.

For the irony impaired:
:sarcasm:

[Phillycat]

59. That assholishness is simply fear on their parts.

People are afraid that what happened to you can happen to them. It feels safer and better to assume someone like you who had this tragedy happen to them is simply stupid and made poor choices - that way, it can NEVER happen to THEM. THEY'RE smarter than that.

They have to keep that air of superiority because otherwise they'd have to face the fact that it could happen to ANY OF US.

[Pithlet]

95. Exactly.

I just said something similar in another post in this thread. I think you hit the nail on the head.

[LeftishBrit]

61. I am sorry to hear about this

I'm thousands of miles away, but just wanted to send my best thoughts.

[mmonk]

62. Best of luck to you.

Sorry about your troubles.

[sojourner]

65. some mistake "empathy" - feelng with - for "sympathy". most of the time people, no matter what their

plight, need empathy (a sense that others "feel with" their pain). To grant it does NOT mean that one agrees with actions that got one into trouble (and face it, we're all responsible for the choices we make).

Makes me sick that so many (yes, also here at DU) must withhold the most basic human kindnesses in order to show their righteousness, their wisdom, or whatever it is that floats their boat.

[Snarkturian Clone]

66. Fuck them

I'm a homeowner too and my house is in peril based on the fact that the housing collapse hasn't quite hit here yet (my zip code has just had it's 7th quarter in a row of increased housing prices).
I could easily be in the same boat as you at any time.

[MilesColtrane]

71. How is your house decreasing in value going to raise your mortgage payment?

You must have signed an adjustable rate mortgage.

[Snarkturian Clone]

97. It's not that

It's the fact that my house will decrease in value to such a point that I will owe more than I can sell it for.

[MilesColtrane]

104. OK...

I guess you're planning on selling soon.

[undeterred]

68. I'm so sorry

:hug: There are some awful people here who will kick you when you lose your job, your home, your partner, or anything else. Ignore them.

[backscatter712]

72. This makes me terrified to buy a house.

People are telling me right and left "Why are you still living in that tiny apartment?" You should be buying a house!

I've got a good job right now, and I'm pretty financially secure, right now. I'm saving up some money, and maybe in the next couple years or so I'll pull the trigger on a house, but I don't feel secure enough to do so right now.

I don't trust the mortgage companies or homebuilders - so many people have been smoothtalked into ARMs (watch your payments climb into the stratosphere!) or even interest-only loans (the world's most expensive way to rent a house.) I'll only do a traditional 30-year fixed mortgage. I have no idea how I'll afford a downpayment on a modern super-expensive house - I have some savings, and I'm putting a few hundred away each month, but how am I going to cough up $40,000 to buy into a house the right way?

So I guess I'm going to continue to stay in that tiny apartment for a few more years, until I do feel secure that I can own a place of my own and not have the floor yanked out from under me.

I could feel smug in that I'm one of the lucky bastards - I have a good job, I have positive cashflow, and I'm not being buried under an avalanche of debt, but the more I see this happen to fellow DUers, the worse I feel, and there's the sinking feeling it could happen to me at some point. For all I know, I could lose my job tomorrow, and when that happens, I might not be able to find another one, and I'll be the one losing everything.

[MissB]

89. I think you'll be fine.

It used to be that you had to put down a significant downpayment on a house purchase. If you keep saving, you'll get there. If you can avoid PMI by putting down a huge downpayment, you'll be even more secure.

As far as the mortgage companies- you can just walk if you don't get the 30-year fixed. When you go to sign, just review everything very slowly and don't be in a hurry to sign. Make sure it is as you thought it would be.

Modern super-expensive houses aren't good first-time houses for first-time home buyers. ;)

[tomreedtoon]

77. Sorry, but you own a house. I never will. I hate you.

And I hate everyone else who owns a house, whether they stole the money from their parents' estate or sold drugs or whatever despicable things they did to make the down payment. The sooner you join the rest of us in living in cardboard boxes, the people who are the victims of the rich and powerful that you thought you were a part of, the better.

[distantearlywarning]

81. Um...what?

I'm sympathetic to the OP's viewpoint, and I'm certainly no corporate apologist.

But you HATE me because I own a home? And you think that I stole money or sold drugs to make a down payment? Rich and powerful? (Yeah, right...I wish.)

Actually, what we did to buy a house was choose to live in an area of the country with a low cost of living (Pittsburgh). Then we saved up a few hundred bucks from our salary for a year, and put 5% down on a very cheap house (under 100K). Our monthly payment is just about what we were paying in rent, which wasn't very much to start with. We could have bought it with no money down, actually, with only a little increase in our payments. It wouldn't have been much of a problem to do that either, because our income to mortgage ratio is only about 1.25.

So...maybe you "never will" own a house where you live, but if you moved where I live, you could probably afford a house even if you were making minimum wage. You could probably afford a decent house or condo here on Social Security payments (no joke!). Heck, you could probably own a house here for nothing if you knew where to look and were willing to work at it. I've read articles about tribes or families of homeless people in this city taking over abandoned houses and fixing them up. Sometimes the city will just give the house to them if they do enough work and get it up to code.

There are other places in the country like my city if you don't want to live in the cold industrial Northeast, but you have to spend some time looking for them and be willing to change something about your life instead of wallowing in bitterness. And you have to be willing to accept not living on the coast, or in hip places filled with beautiful people.

[backscatter712]

86. You might want to turn on your sarcasm detector.

Really, do we have to use :sarcasm: tag every time we get snarky?

[distantearlywarning]

106. I can't tell the difference between serious and snarky posts anymore here

The craziness has gotten just that crazy.

[xultar]

83. BUHWAWAWA!

[Pathwalker]

85. You live in a cardboard house - with an internet connection?

Just how the heck do you manage that? And why oh why do you ASS*U*ME that everyone who own a home sold drugs or stole money from their parent's estates to make a down payment?

[Evoman]

114. I knew a homeless guy who used the computers at the library.

Just sayin' :shrug:

[flashl]

79. I wish there were viable consumer agencies still available in your time of need.

You have my heartfelt support as you navigate the shark-infested cesspool called the American economy.

In the not so distant past, there were consumer protection agencies and neighborhood legal services that could and would provide help and support.

Predatory lenders and their harmful effects have been discussed since the 90s with NO ACTION from the government.

I also acknowledge your anxiety, feeling forced to make an unthinkable decision about your pets.

I wish you and your pets a bright future.

[stirlingsliver]

82. Thank You. Thank You.

I posted on another thread that the people whose houses are being foreclosed were victims of predatory lenders, and I said that the government had done NOTHING to protect people from predatory lenders. I also said that the government should absolutely do something to help bail people out from foreclosure.

In response, several people told me that the only people who are being foreclosed are rich people who tried to game the system so they could buy beach houses.

Thank you for speaking the truth.

[xultar]

84. BEST. POST. EVER!

[defendandprotect]

87. America is being destablized and the banks have been running amuck ---

guided by the Fed --- a private bank --- and backed by US dollars ---
and bail outs by US taxpayers ---

Twisting our bankruptcy laws to protect reckless lending by corporations
is no different from reckless lending by banks ---

and we should be protecting these homeowners rather than the banks ---

Democrats, I hope, will be trying to help all of these homeowners ---

[blues90]

88. Most people got scammed by these mortgage companies

I never tried to get a home I knew I could not afford one ever . I never liked giving away money for rent but I am stuck there .

I knew many people who were not looking to get off free and were willing to make their payments but they had no idea the interest rates would hit the sky and they are not lawyers who can understand the small print .

Perhaps some people got a home and used credit to the max but for the most part people got screwed just like with the credit cards who can do whatever they want when ever they want . We would have never used a credit card if it was clear the interest rates would raise like this or that suddenly the min monthly payment was doubled .

How can one plan on this sort of criminal change and it is criminal .

[DCKit]

90. Rec'd for the discussion.

[Javaman]

92. Truth be told, our species has been known for cannibalism...

Peace!

[earth mom]

100. So sorry to hear this. I believe that the entire country has been SCAMMED & we're in for some rough

Depression era times ahead-if not The Great Depression 3. :(


Sending good vibes your way....

[Danger Mouse]

101. What happened?

:hug:

[bobbolink]

107. So, what you do is, you join with those of us without even ANY housing,

and together, we ALL make enough noise to wake up DUers, liberals, and peace people.

Oh wait... you DID care about poor folk before this happened to you, right?

[lonestarnot]

109. K & Fucking R!

[Cha]

110. I know nothing about

houses but I hear ya!

[juajen]

113. We almost lost ours, and the battle is not over.

It's like a beautiful ripe tomato, firm on the outside, but all squishy on the inside. Pray everyone for us all. If housing goes down, a lot more is lost.

[Hekate]

115. This is so scary. I'm sorry so many here have been so hurtful to you and others in like situations.

I hope things get better for you soon. :hug:

Hekate

[killbotfactory]

118. You have my sympathy

The debt industry is run by a bunch of ruthless snakes.

[Buzz Clik]

119. I, for one, am not of the same species.

However, I'm sorry to hear about your house.

[cgrindley]

124. Please explain the parts that don't seem to make logical sense

okay... in various posts in this thread you've said:

you bought the house in 2000

it was far below 500k

it was 3 times your yearly income

you put 20% down

you didn't get an ARM but a fixed rate mortgage

now in 2008 it has somehow lost equity from 2000, from your original purchase year? or are you talking about the fake equity that it never actually had during the housing bubble?


is this entirely accurate?

[helderheid]

126. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours

[Tesha]

127. The absolute value of my house is relatively unimportant.

> This is just starting, this is HUGE and trust me you WILL
> see the "value" of your house come crashing to the ground
> hen all the cheap foreclosure properties hit the market.
> Because I'm a fucking bleeding heart, I don't wish this
> curse on anyone. May the gods of Wall Street have mercy
> on YOUR soul.

Because we bought our house *TO LIVE IN*, the absolute
market value of our house is relatively unimportant. We
bought it eight years ago at X hundred thousand dollars,
allegedly it's now worth 2X hundred thousand dollars, and
it matters to us hardly at all (unless we were to try and
sell out of the housing market entirely and become renters
or try to move to a real-estate market with much different
pricing dynamics).

And if the market "collapses" and the value of our house
is "halved" back to just X hundred thousand dollars, it
still won't matter. Even if it was quartered to 0.5X hundred
thousand, it *STILL* wouldn't matter: we worked our way up
to this house and financed it with a mortgage that is now
paid down to near 0.3X so we're unlikely to be "underwater"
in any reasonable circumstance.

Tax-wise, the town needs about the same amount of money
from us no matter what the absolute valuation, so they'll
just juggle valuations and tax rates to extract their
ever-increasing sum from everyone, no matter what happens
to the absolute house valuations.

Insurance wise, we're insuring the structure, not the
land+structure and the replacement cost of the structure
isn't changing, at least not downwards. So the absolute
value of our real estate doesn't matter there, either.

As long as you bought your house to live in and not as
an ATM or investment, and as long as you didn't mortgage
the house to the hilt, the absolute value doesn't matter
all that much.

Tesha