The futility of it all.

[cornermouse]

Per CBS, they've been fighting house to house on one street which is less than a mile from the Green Zone for more than a month and still don't have it cleared out. A perfect illustration of our little foray into world dominion. Its time we got out.

[Old and In the Way]

1. We can't win, we can only decide the magnitude of our loses.

Too bad Dimbulb can't figure this one out.

[magellan]

2. They hadn't started doing "clear and HOLD" yet

It's been more like "clear and come back to clear again". But how they think an alleged "extra" 17,000 troops will help subdue and secure Baghdad, a city that covers something like 127 square miles, is beyond me. I was listening to the BBC World News yesterday morning and a reporter in Baghdad was saying he goes for 2-3 days without seeing US troops. That's how thinly stretched they are.

[Porcupine]

3. The reality is "clear and execute"

Every day the news reports that "16 Al Quaida dead" or "12 terrorists dead" in this or that action. What they really mean is that "we killed X number of male of military age" in addition to all the women and children we killed in that area.

These guys do NOT carry membership cards like it was Costco or something.

Clear and EXECUTE is what is happening in these neighborhoods. The US is engaged in genocide and the military knows it.

[Avalux]

4. Exactly - who determines the enemy?

Our troops going door to door - can't speak the language, can't communicate - ordered to 'clear'. We will be conducting ethnic cleansing in predominately Sunni neighborhoods. That's the reality.

[magellan]

5. Yeah, I know

Yesterday Maddezmom posted a report of how they couldn't get at the "insurgents" in a certain building on Haifa Street, so they fired a missile at the building from 50km away!! "Precision"? Maybe, but I doubt they checked the building first to see if there were any civilians hiding in terror inside...which there probably were.

The only good thing we could possibly be fighting for is the lives of regular Iraqis, but even that has never been a priority of BushCo, despite calling this farce "Iraqi Freedom". There is no value placed on innocent lives, all we're doing is causing death and radicalizing those who remain for the perverse reason of fighting terrorism. It made zero sense four years ago and still makes zero sense.

[KharmaTrain]

6. Occupations...The Law Of Diminishing Returns

You'd think these "brains" inside the betlway would have taken a history course or two before they launch their wars of greed and glory...at least avoid some of the most basic mistakes. Not only have they made them, they repeat them and make the situation worse.

I've always played devil's advocate on this...always asking if it were our country that were occupied how would I or others react. Would one take up armed resistance? Passive resistance (ala the underground) or attempt to placate the occupiers? There's no good alternative in any of those options and all breed greater and greater contempt for the occupiers. The Nazi occupations of France, Poland and the Soviet Union should be classic examples as the "insurgents" or "freedom fighters" (when they're on our side) grew larger, more emboldened and deadlier as the war progressed.

Jim Webb asked the question I would love to hear some regime mouthpiece answer..."what consitutes 'victory'?" What's the endgame here? What benchmark is there militarily (since there is no diplomatic) that we can use to determine the country has been "pacified" sufficiently? They can't give an answer because there isn't one.

The options we have left in this sorrid invasion are bleak. We either withdraw on our own volition and attempt to do so with the minimum of damage to our already ruined image...or we get chased out of Baghdad ala Saigon, 1975. That's the end games I see.

[sendero]

7. It's astounding..

.... that anyone thinks that this civil war can be brought under control at this point by 20,000 more troops. 200,000 more could not do it.

These idiots have been wrong since the day they invaded. We were going to be there "weeks rather than months". There were "just a few dead-enders". The "insurgency is in its last throes". "They are an imminent threat". "They have WMDs". "They are friends of Al-Queda". "They tried to obtain significant quantities of yellowcake uranium from Nigeria". "Democracy is on the march."

Lie after lie after lie after lie. What kind of moron still believes these people?