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Holy cow! McCain/Abramoff Connection? - Wanna bet this gets buried?

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:46 AM
Original message
Holy cow! McCain/Abramoff Connection? - Wanna bet this gets buried?
Edited on Tue Jul-08-08 10:52 AM by kpete
Holy cow! Wanna bet this gets buried?
by 8ackgr0und N015e
Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 08:32:46 AM PDT

........................

......I found something interesting in the Senate Lobbying Disclosure Act Database.

Remember those marathon gambling sessions in 2005? We know he was often in the company of Wes Gullett, a former staffer and now a lobbyist. So far, no big deal. If you check the web site for Gullett's firm you find nothing strange there -- now. But it turns out something was going on in 2005 when these guys were spending loads of money and time at the craps tables together...

.....................................

According to the Senate lobbyist database, Gullett’s firm filed a client registration on 12/13/ 05 for the Guidiville Band of Pomo Indians dated 11/29/05. The purpose of the lobbying was to promote Indian gambling. But on 1/12/06, Gullett filed an amended registration dated 11/05 because the Senate never received an ID number.

Walter Gray, the head of the Guidiville Band of Pomo Indians testified before McCain’s committee in July 2005 so why would the Pomo Indians hire Gullett in November? Especially AFTER they got their access? The answer is they probably didn't hire him afterwards. He just didn't report it until afterwards. Looks to me like a sloppy way to retroactively cover your tracks in case anyone ever wanted to check if you were secretly lobbying for a client.

The bottom line: It looks like Gullett got $20,000 for secretly lobbying McCain while McCain was chairman of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee and they were investigating Indian gambling in connection with Jack Abramoff.

more (including links & docs) at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/7/8/10274/73297/29/548152
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NV Whino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. Good catch!
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. k&r
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. step it up, MSM

The bloggers are handing you stories on platinum plates.

:kick: and R
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. Did Abramoff represent the Pomo Indians?
Did Gullett have any relationship with Abramoff?

Is it an ethics violation to gamble with lobbyists with business before your committee? What does McCain's tax returns say about winnings/losings and gambling partners - does Gullet' name appear?

This raises lots of interesting questions, at least.

Good catch.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Did McCain use his own money, or did Gullett give him a stake.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Perfect Way to Make Untraceable Bribes
Edited on Tue Jul-08-08 12:04 PM by AndyTiedye
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
36. McCain used his commttee to subpoena Abramoff records and then buried them
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. He would not release them and he bragged about protecting "many" republicans by doing this
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Is Any of this "Bragging" ON TAPE?
It really is best when the Repiglickins do our work for us.

Hollywood couldn't come up with a more gangsterish-looking gangster than this:



It would certainly be a good thing to tie McLame to Abramoff, and then point out that he
is just getting back into his Keating 5 ways…


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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
42. And this is exactly the point of the whole Republican/casino connection.
It's the Godfather IV. Why doesn't the press see this? The answer is obvious. Gambling is where money is laundered. Gambling is where bribes are paid.

Siegelman wanted to get the gangsters out of gambling. That's why they went after him.

I went to high school in Alabama and was rather horrified to learn that at a recent class reunion, the primary entertainment was to be gambling. Sorry to be a prude, but I hate gambling. It is such a scam. If the odds favored the customers, the casinos would not survive. It does not take a particularly high IQ to figure out that you are more likely to lose money in a casino than to win it. And what social purpose does gambling serve? Absolutely none other than to get fat cats together so they can scheme against the rest of us.

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crimsonblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
39. there's no trace of ANY gambling winnings or debts
on McCain's taxes. Now, we all know by now his penchant for playing $1000 throws of craps, and if the money isn't coming from him (assuming he is not being fraudulent in his tax filings), then the money is coming from either: a)his rich wife, or b) lobbyists. Either way, the American people need to be wary of a man that can nonchalantly spend tens, maybe even hundreds, of thousands of dollars on a game of complete luck. There's a reason that there's a cliche-- "It was a crap shoot".
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DeeDeeNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
6. Yes, this will soon be buried
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
26. I am hoping that one gets resurrected
If we keep harping on Vicki Iseman all summer, by November it will be old news, a dead horse we have stubbornly persisted in kicking. If this resurfaces in a big way in the second week in October, it will be the zombie horse from Hell, reanimated and ready to bite John McCain right in the saggy old ass!

That's what I'm hoping, anyway.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. The real scandal is what McCain did, covering up the Abramoff-Bush connections
before the 2004 election, esp. the Alabama/Riley connection where money was illegally funneled and an election was fixed.

This seems like a diversion of attention, by comparison to the real McCain-Abramoff-Bush-Riley scandal!!!
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. do tell us more...
???
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. DOn't forget the trove of emails he's sitting on from that trollop Abramoff.
:grr:

-Hoot
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
32. is the money
the transfers from the RNC or McCain's own senate campaign dollars? Something like that is popping up in my head, not sure if that is what this pertains to, but please clarify if you get a chance, thank you!
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. Did you see the similar 5/28 DKos diary?
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. and yet the Free Media Ride continues
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. A different Pomo band was tied in with Roger Stone
The item below is about the Lytton Band of Pomo Indians, not the Guidiville Band, so I don't know offhand if it's relevant to the story in the OP.

However, Roger Stone is the longtime dirty trickster who was formerly partners with Charlie Black in Black, Manafort, Stone. Scott Reed, mentioned in the quote below as a friend and associate of Stone's, is also friends with McCain and appears to be close to both Charlie Black and Rick Davis. (See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/25/AR2008062502858.html) Davis, in turn, is the partner of Paul Manafort, formerly of Black, Manafort, Stone. So it's all a tight little circle of old buddies -- and if the Guidiville Band did turn out to connect with Stone/Reed, that could point directly to McCain.

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0416,barrett,52802,1.html

A Dirty Trickster's Bush Bonanza
The man who stopped Miami recount makes gaming millions
by Wayne Barrett
April 13th, 2004

Roger Stone, the dirty-tricks hobgoblin of Republican politics, has exploited his Bush connections to become an influence-peddling force in the $13 billion Indian gaming industry. ... The 52-year-old Stone, who's based in Miami but also has an apartment at 40 Central Park South, acknowledges he has "a piece" of at least three deals. His 2002 contract with Buena Vista Rancheria of the Me-Wuk Indians entitles him to a $250,000 retainer plus 7.5 percent of annual "gaming revenue" from a $150 million casino 35 miles southwest of Sacramento, California. Warring factions of this minuscule tribe have long stymied a deal, but they signed a tentative agreement in December that must be finalized by July. It is currently under review by BIA. Stone also has lucrative stakes in casinos connected to two other California tribes—Enterprise Rancheria, which has a BIA application and a congressional corrections bill currently under consideration, and the Lytton Band of Pomo Indians, which won BIA approval in October for a San Francisco Bay casino opposed by Senator Dianne Feinstein. ...

Sam Katz, the general partner in the Lytton deal, refuses to reveal what Stone's holdings are worth, saying only that Stone "will get a portion of the proceeds" when the already negotiated sale to another gaming company is completed. Tony Cohen, the tribe's attorney, said Katz's group would be paid "tens of millions of dollars," and Stone has told business associates that he will earn $4 million to $7 million, a figure he would not confirm to the Voice. ...

Hiding himself from the burden of public disclosure, Stone has brought an old lobbyist friend, Scott Reed, who already represented Connecticut tribes, into the incestuous world of California gaming. He got Buena Vista and the developers doing the Lytton and Enterprise ventures to retain Reed's firm, Chesapeake Enterprises. The campaign manager for Bob Dole in 1996, Reed, unlike the tarnished Stone, actually registers on behalf of the tribes he represents, only works on retainer, and is now doing cable appearances as a GOP insider.

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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. More on the Lytton Band -- may be tied to McCain
It's possible that the Gullett connection could be a red herring -- but that there still might have been something going on with McCain and the Lytton Band. The first article is apparently from 2001, the second from 2005. (It looks like the struggle over the casino plan dragged on for quite a while.)

http://www.buraphalinux.org/~twatchai/OLDWEB/hospitality/k.LVC.998338567.html

Businessman Vows to Counter Nevada Senator's Bid to Scuttle Tribal Casino Plan
By Tony Batt, Las Vegas Review-Journal
Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News

Aug. 17--WASHINGTON--Even if Nevada Sen. Harry Reid persuades Congress to scuttle an Indian casino project near San Francisco, tribal officials could carry on the fight in federal court, according to a Philadelphia businessman who represents more than 20 private investors in the casino.

Sam Katz, a sports entrepreneur and former political candidate, said Reid's amendment would amount to a taking of land from the Lytton band of Pomo Indians who would operate the casino in San Pablo, about a 40-minute drive from San Francisco. ...

Katz already has hired two formidable Washington lobbyists to convince lawmakers they should reject Reid's proposal.

One is former Rep. Bob Livingston, R-La., who once chaired the House Appropriations Committee and was picked to become speaker before resigning in 1998 after admitting marital infidelity. The other is Scott Reed, who managed the 1996 presidential campaign of Sen. Bob Dole, R-Kansas. Neither Livingston nor Reed returned phone calls for this article.

http://feinstein.senate.gov/05releases/r-lytton-mccain.htm

Senator Feinstein Welcomes Plans by Senator McCain
to Review Lytton Casino Bill
February 11, 2005

U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) today welcomed plans by Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.) to hold an Indian Affairs Committee hearing on her bill affecting the Lytton Band of Pomo Indians, who have proposed to build a large, urban casino in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Senator Feinstein has introduced legislation that would require the Lytton Band to undergo the same regulatory oversight process for building a casino as any other tribe that acquired land after October 17, 1988 – the date the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act was enacted.

Senator Feinstein’s bill would strike a provision in the 2000 Indian Omnibus Advancement Act – inserted by Congressman George Miller (D-Calif.) – which allows the Lytton Tribe to sidestep gaming requirements in the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act. The provision required the Secretary of Interior to backdate the acquisition of a card club property in San Pablo to October 17, 1988.

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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. It isn't clear just where McCain came down in all of this
McCain did hold hearings in February 2005 at Feinstein's urging and told the Lytton Band that their "reservation shopping" was illegitimate. And in 2006, McCain proposed a law to prevent more of that sort of thing:
http://www.tombutt.com/forum/2006/060314.htm

Bill limits Indian casinos to reservation

Mar. 09, 2006

Reacting to backlash against Indian gambling's most controversial trend, key lawmakers are seeking to limit Indian tribes' ability to establish casinos away from their reservations.

Bills by House Resources Committee Chairman Richard Pombo, R-Tracy, and Senate Indian Affairs Committee Chairman John McCain, R-Ariz., would eliminate an exception in existing law that allows tribes with reservations to build casinos in other locations -- even in other states.

Their bills would also tighten the circumstances under which tribes that have been newly recognized by the federal government or don't have reservation land of their own could get permission to build casinos.

However, this other article indicates there were loopholes:
http://www.landrights.org/ActionAlerts/alra-f014432b6ec.html

Resources Committee Chairman Richard Pombo (R-CA) has introduced a new bill in Congress provide local communities with more say as tribes try to engage in reservation shopping.

His bill, HR 4893, is available at www.landrights.org.

It would allow the legislature to vote and allow for the local community to vote on the issue of new off-reservation casinos in their communities. It also would provide for other hoops for the tribes and Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) to go through. At present BIA has no regulations governing its conduct in this process.

Senator John McCain (R-AZ), Chairman of the Indian Affairs Committee, offered up legislation that passed the Senate last week to amend the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988. It DOES NOT allow communities more say in the process. Unfortunately, the McCain bill includes a grandfather clause that needs to be blocked in the House. It would grandfather tribes now in the process. It actually encourage more tribes to apply because it gives until April 15th for them to get a letter in.

So on balance, it isn't clear to me where McCain actually stood on the issue. Was he genuinely against reservation shopping? Was he sort of against it but trying to maintain a loophole for the Lytton Band? Or was he engaged in a kind of damage control operation, as some allege was the case with his Abramoff hearings, because the public anger had gotten too strong to ignore?

I frankly don't have the time to dig into this the way it deserves -- but it might be worth someone else following up on, to find out how the bill finally ended up, track McCain's positions through 2005-06, and see if there are any possible lobbyist-related changes of course.





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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. I think I can explain a small part of it.
I know what's going on in the last article cited, specifically this part:

"Senator John McCain (R-AZ), Chairman of the Indian Affairs Committee, offered up legislation that passed the Senate last week to amend the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988. It DOES NOT allow communities more say in the process. Unfortunately, the McCain bill includes a grandfather clause that needs to be blocked in the House. It would grandfather tribes now in the process. It actually encourage more tribes to apply because it gives until April 15th for them to get a letter in."

But to explain it, I have to go back to the beginning of the article. As a shortcut, you can just skip to the part in bold for my short opinion.

First of all, what the House of Representatives thinks about American Indian affairs doesn't mean shit. The House rarely understands the sovereign relationship between tribes and the federal government, and its individual members have, for well over two hundred years now, often gained their offices by marginalizing and thieving from American Indian tribes. They still do: Richard Pombo was the Chairman of the House Resources Committee, which includes authority over Indian tribes because as I said the House treats Indians as a resource. The House is constantly--constantly--working to erode Indian sovereignty, because interfering is the only role they have in the process.

Real authority over Indian tribes rests in the Senate, because the sovereignty of Indian tribes* is based primarily on their former treaty relationship with the United States. The Senate's role in reviewing and confirming treaties makes them the experts on the federal-tribal relationship. John McCain actually knows this job pretty well, and the above quote is an example of it.

McCain's bill writes out local community say in the process because local communities in theory should have no say in the sovereign federal-tribal relationship whatsoever. In fact, they need to be kept out of it, which brings us back to so-called "reservation shopping."

America was not conquered. Usually, the United States' land was not forcibly annexed from its rightful original owners without compensation. It was bought. The United States failed to keep up its end of the purchasing arrangements so often that American Indians became quite well versed on American law and government. They insisted on permanency clauses and other guarantees so that even if the United States didn't pay up, or failed to protect tribal land as agreed, the transfer would be invalid, permanently.

That stopped nobody, particularly not local governments, from nipping at tribal reservations and burial grounds. Theoretically, much of that land is still owned by the Indians, because the illegal transfers were instantly invalid. Lots of times, the tribes themselves were moved and their stolen land is now far from their current reservations and across state lines.

Those myriad little thefts come back to haunt local governments, constantly. Tribes rarely forget such injustices, but until recently were poor and couldn't afford the decades-long process of having the land returned (which process, incidentally, has been almost totally stopped by the Bush Administration thanks to their suspension of land-into-trust regulations). Now that they have the money and legal backing of casinos and developers, they can afford to come back for the shit that was stolen from them.

The local governments, living in a permanent state of amnesia because they're still to this day trying to cover up their crimes and evade the consequences of them, automatically react by sending up asshole Representatives who don't know shit about anything I just said above, Richard Pombo being a superb example. They've tagged the phrase "reservation shopping" to a process of rightful return of stolen and often sacred land. So fuck those guys, mkay?

What usually happens is that the federal government carefully checks to see if an applying tribe a) is who they say they are; b) had clear title to the land; and c) never legally surrendered title of that land to the federal government. Informally, local resistance to the process is usually pretty good evidence of all three. Sure, the land can be taken back into trust, but then there are still more hoops to see if a tribe can set up a casino on it. Then if that's okay, the tribe and the state have to make a compact over it. And so on. It takes decades, as I said.

Except in this case. I haven't looked too closely at this case, but it appears that Sen. Feinstein's gripe is that this band of Pomo has deftly sidestepped part of the regulatory process. Which brings us back to McCain's legislation in that one little paragraph:

McCain's bill sought to limit tribal gaming by restricting it to the primary reservations of each tribe. This has the benefit of protecting most local governments without actually involving them in a process in which they, as the traditional perpetrators of the original wrong, should have no role. It still screws over tribes, though, by trying to push back their gaming operations to their shitty reservations where nobody wants to go. That's what Feinstein and McCain both want.

Jesus, did I make any sense at all there? Oh, screw it, I'm going to post this anyway.


* I'm using the term Indian tribes here to denote the tribes of the lower 48 states. Most federally recognized Indian tribes in the lower 48 have similar (but not identical) relationships with the federal government, sovereignty based on treaties and other government-to-government dealings with the U.S. Indian tribes are comprised of Native Americans, but not all Native Americans have treaty rights with the United States. Native Alaskans have some government-to-government rights; Native Hawaiians still fewer; Native Samoans and unrecognized tribes have practically none. Thus, I avoid using the term Native American here because it's less accurate, and worse it may encourage some to try to push Indian tribes closer to the rights of American Samoan tribes rather than the reverse.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. I learned a lot from your post

Thanks for the effort of writing up that background.

:thumbsup:
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
13. kick
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dragonlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. Massive Bush/GOP/Abramoff coverup, 742,000 documents suppressed by McCain
A writer on dailyKos has been following McCain's coverup and has written many great diaries on this mess. Briefly, as chair of the Indian Affairs Committee of the Senate, McCain slowed up his investigation of Abramoff to protect Republicans in the 2004 election. He had subpoenaed 750,000 documents from Abramoff's law firm, but closed his investigation and sealed 97% of them from being available to the public. (Does this have anything to do with why he is the nominee today?)

A graphic representation of the suppressed documents:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/8/222648/0915

Report of ongoing lobbying investigations; how Abramoff has been cooperating with the Justice Department and may testify in the future, with many links:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/14/23923/1719/206/535771
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. Any resume
I've ever submitted has included the requisite personal and professional references. Had those names included just Keating and Abramoff, I'd have spent a lot of time wondering why I couldn't get hired. At least not by reputable companies.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. You'd have been hired in an instant by any firm with good
Republican connections. Morgan Stanley would have loved you. Ditto anything connected with the Bush family.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
20. All (Republican) Dirty Relationships are Off the Table
For attempting to ruin Obama, however, all options are on the table.
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. Nice Snag! But after tomorrows FISA vote, This will be a Police State
(officially)

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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
23. Maybe that's why McCain wants to finish Yucca Mountain
he needs a big hole to keep this stuff buried for millions of years.
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Juan_de_la_Dem Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
24. This is serious homework. Buried indeed...Rec
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
25. Finding an article connecting Admiral McCombover to lobbyists: 1 hour...
Edited on Tue Jul-08-08 09:21 PM by ColbertWatcher
...posting said link to DU: 2 minutes...

...saving the incriminating image to a wiki where you're an admin and have the power to ban GOP vandals: forever priceless:


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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
27. It only matters when Obama fucks shit up.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Yep. There is so much info out there about McSame, but no one wants
to touch it. Where are the white knights-Salon, Nation, et al? Because it's been done before? Now this needs revisiting.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. Don't let this get buried, McCain is up to his neck in corruption
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
30. Marathon gambling sessions .
Cozy relations with lobbyists.

McCain smells of corruption. The stench clouds his campaign. And still he polls at 44%. It WREAKS!

I am terrified he will be installed as pResident, just as the current pretender.
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
33. K&R n/t
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appleannie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
34. Has anyone sent this to KO? It needs to get beyond the net.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
35. McSame would cheat his old Mother, but she'd beat him with the broom.
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
40. Well, let's not have it buried here! KICK n/t
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
41. K&R
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