Rape victim had compensation cut by a quarter because 'she was drunk'

[tannybogus]

Ministers are facing demands for a full inquiry after it emerged that rape victims are having their state-funded compensation payments slashed on the grounds that they were drunk when they were assaulted.

Officials at the Criminal Injury Compensation Authority have written to women stating that their own drinking was a 'contributing factor' in their ordeal at the hands of rapists.

Officials have cut their standard pay-out of £11,000 by as much as a quarter because they were deemed partly to blame.

The rules of the CICA scheme allow state-funded compensation to be reduced for victims of crime in cases where they are at fault - such as by provoking their attacker in a fight.

But revelations that those rules have been applied to drunken rape victims have drawn furious protests, with lawyers branding the approach 'appalling'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1043738/Rape-victim-compensation-cut-quarter-drunk.html

This was in the UK. Hope it doesn't spread.

[endthewar]

1. State-funded compensation?

Is that really a good idea? Seems to make more sense to sue your attacker instead of the state unless the state was negligent in some manner.

[Cerridwen]

4. Yes; because the last thing the government should do is take care of its

people. Why can't they be like the US and leave it in the hands of the private sector? It works so well here. :sarcasm:

While googling "Officials at the Criminal Injury Compensation Authority," I found similar agencies in Canada and Western Australia. Can you imagine?! Governments who care for their people?! OMFG!!!111!!! What HAS the world come to?!!! Don't those countries know that only the private sector is truly capable of caring for people. Geez, just show them our medical insurance industry and how profitable efficient it is. That'll show 'em.

:sarcasm:

So, what did you think of the point of the article; that women were being penalized for "contributing" to their very own rape? Did you notice that point in the article?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

8. Oh now, you know how easy the court system is on rape victims!

Judging from the way they are treated when they try to criminally prosecute their assailants, why wouldn't a woman feel comfortable seeking civil damages? I mean, all she has to do is persuade a jury that she's not a dirty little whore who was asking for it.

:sarcasm:, obviously.

[Cerridwen]

10. But, of course. What WAS I thinking?

Geez, some days I just forget to readjust my thinking to the common knowledge school of thought in which "all men are created equal" and "good women" don't get themselves raped. Silly me.

Yeah, I'd better put this :sarcasm: here.

[beam me up scottie]

9. Not only that, but the government then has a much larger incentive to reduce rape.

Or an incentive period.

Right now the defense lawyers are the only ones who profit from that particular crime.

[Cerridwen]

11. Precisely what I was thinking. Thanks for posting it here.

I was too much in snark mode.

[beam me up scottie]

13. You? I had to go back and delete everything I typed in the first five minutes.

This will be pissing me off for a long time.

[Cerridwen]

14. Okay, I know I shouldn't say this, but...

your reply made me LOL. The number of times I've typed astounding and long and ranting posts only to delete them went passing before my eyes as I read your post. I was just sitting here thinking I need to change my username to SnarkyCerridwen because I'm so angry these days I can barely have a conversation with resorting to sarcasm and snark. If I say "I feel your pain" would you understand I'm not just typing a ridiculous cliche?

The world we've created and live in is just so wrong on so many levels. I'll either be eaten alive by rage or I'm going to have to find my sense of humor again. Your post helped me a bit with the latter. I hope you take no offense from that.

[beam me up scottie]

18. Oh,Cerridwen, I grok, believe me.

Part of my deleted response went something like: "I can't fucking stand it"

What kills me is that we seem to learn NOTHING from our past.

Do you know that I cried during the opening ceremonies?

You wanna know why?

Because I realized just how much humans are capable of doing when they believe in something.

Unfortunately, very few of us seem to believe in peace.

We could feed the world, cure diseases, save the planet, the sky's the limit.

And what do those who are so abled spend their precious resources on?

Inventing new and better ways to kill the other guy and take what belonged to him.

[Cerridwen]

22. Ah, yes, the whole peace through destruction justification for...

well, damned near everything these days.

When the hell did 'peace' become a dirty word? How? ARGHHHHHHHHHHH! Okay, I'm not going to go there because I'll just be repeating what you've so eloquently said above.

Perhaps someday when those who think along these same lines actually achieve real power rather than the perception of power attributed to "those damned peace-niks," we'll see real change. I wish I could be alive to see it. I won't hold my breath.

[beam me up scottie]

27. I hope you are too.

I've given up the ghost personally.
I don't have kids and don't want to be around long enough to witness the extinction of polar bears, tigers, pandas and/or any other creature more deserving of being saved than humans.

[endthewar]

34. 11,000 pounds

Sounds like it covers psychological counseling, medical care, and perhaps a few other things. I wouldn't exactly call this compensation, more like something to help tide you over for a little while. Seems like a feel good small check that doesn't encourage true justice. Also, I guarantee there is some type of fraud prevention check that the government has in place even for this system. Obviously not as embarrassing as a jury trial though. Does the British civil court system even work like our own? I would think that a criminal conviction should be almost good enough by itself to necessitate a guilty verdict in a civil case in their system.

Also, on the point of government compensation to encourage the government to help prevent rape, I don't see it that way. Perhaps if the compensation was much greater. But if someone was to do an economic analysis on this, we would come to the horrible mathematical conclusion that it's beneficial for the government to allow quite a few rapes or situations that breed it instead of increasing their police presence. Either civil prosecution should be encouraged more or the compensation should be increased for this to happen.

Of course I noticed the main point, but didn't feel it to be a very debatable point, especially on this forum. Put up a poll asking people what they think about this verdict and it'll be something like a 99% to 1% split, with the 1% being someone who misread the poll. :rofl: I wasn't familiar with state compensation for prosecutable crimes, so thought that it would be interesting to discuss and educate myself. No need to hate someone for wanting to learn more. How else do you expect to spread your political messages? Not everybody has been a Democrat forever, or raised as a Democrat, or know everything about politics in foreign nations. You should encourage discourse and learning, not discourage it. :hi:

[Prophet 451]

37. medical care is free

Well, "free" is misleading because it's paid for from taxes but both medical care and counselling for this kind of case are covered by the NHS (National Health Service, our form of universal care). However, the victim may be traumatised, unable to work (or even leave their home) or similar and the idea is to tide them over until they are able to return to society. The compensation system is funded mainly by fines levied against criminals in the first place.

There is indeed a form of fraud checking for this kind of thing and, for obvious reasons, falsly claiming is regarded as a very serious crime. Our civil courts system is complex. In some areas (such as contract law), it works much the same as yours but in this area, it's very different. A guilty verdict would normally by prima facie enough for a verdict of liability (barring some egregious miscarriage of justice). I'd fully agree that the compensation should be higher, given that it's unusual to sue criminals in civil court here and many don't have means to pay anyway ("men of straw" is the legal term).

[Prophet 451]

25. Yes, it is a good idea

Firstly, rapists often aren't caught and even when they are, they're often "men of straw". Secondly, the compensation provides a powerful incentive for the state to do everything it can to cut rape stats. Thirdly, an arguement could be made that while such crimes continue, the state is inherantly partly to blame and finally, this woman wasn't suing the state for compensation. compensation is already mandatory. She was suing the department which administers the compensation because they were blaming her, in part, for her own rape.

[Pab Sungenis]

29. And I believe that in the UK

the compensation boards are funded by fines levied against criminals.

[Prophet 451]

36. That's correct n/t

[enlightenment]

2. What do you hope doesn't spread?

The compensation or the idea that women who drink "deserve it"?

You might want to clarify your comment before someone comes in and takes a chunk out of your cyber-hide . . . ;)

[tannybogus]

28. Oooops!

I hope the "women who drink idea deserve it' idea doesn't spread.

[enlightenment]

30. Figured that's what you meant, tanny -

looks "endthewar" has drawn the fire . . . deservedly (imo)! :evilgrin:

[tannybogus]

32. Thanks for the heads up!

I think they were too busy storming that beachhead to

parse my sentence. I agree with you about the line of fire.:hi:

[enlightenment]

33. Did you read the BBC.com coverage of this issue?

If you click on the sidebars they explain quite a bit about the entire, sorry situation - much better than the DM, I think.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7555299.stm

[beam me up scottie]

3. So how much do they deduct if the victim was wearing a short skirt?

And how much for showing cleavage?

Hell, by the time they're done assigning blame, the victim will be paying the rapist.

[Prophet 451]

19. Nothing anymore

The high court put an end to this nonsense earlier today:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7555299.stm

[beam me up scottie]

23. Yeah, NOW.

CICA admitted that 13 other rape victims had their payments reduced last year for the same reasons, but could not say how many similar decisions have been made in past years.

Officials insisted these decisions were mistakes - representing just 1 per cent of all rape claims - and that the rules mean no rape victim should have their payments cut.

The fact that a victim of a crime was drunk can lead to lower compensation in some cases, a spokesman said, but only if they contributed to their ordeal in another way - such as starting a fight in which they were hurt.


***

The spokesman said: 'Our policy is not to make a reduction on a claim for compensation following rape on the basis of alcohol consumption.

'The scheme was originally applied wrongly in this case, but this was corrected at review and the award was paid in full.'

That did little to ease the anger of campaigners, who blamed CICA for pedalling 'silly prejudices' about rape, and demanded a full inquiry.

It's great that they finally came to their senses and I hope that all of the victims get full compensation.

[Prophet 451]

24. I would imagine they would

The CICA could, in theory, argue each case individually but that would be pointless since a legal precedent has now been established.

Not arguing that it was a stupid, disgraceful move but at least the good prevailed in the end (yeah, I'm reaching for a silver lining here).

[beam me up scottie]

26. I'm hoping for a silver lining too, thanks for the good news.

The Brits are usually way ahead of us and I trust that they will make this right.

[MrsBrady]

5. um...

so like is it ok to rape women when they've had a few? :sarcasm:

[jakem]

6. only 25% ok, apparently...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. Well gosh, how else do some guys get laid?

You act like plying a woman with alcohol to the point where she's unconscious is WRONG or something! :sarcasm:

[beam me up scottie]

12. If they can penalize the victim for drinking, they can also use that reasoning to absolve rapists.

The more things change...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

15. That's pretty much how it works.

Guys (and I know this from many years of working in male dominated environments) routinely get women drunk so they can take advantage of them. Meanwhile they pretend that they were just as inebriated as the woman was, just two drunk people "hooking up". Yet they have invariably this remarkable ability to recall every detail of the night, whereas the woman usually can't. I'm sad to say it happened to me a few times in my youth, as well as many of my friends. Same M.O. every time. My ex who was a cop told me that alcohol is the number one date rape drug.

[beam me up scottie]

21. I learned that first hand, unfortunately.

They later clued us in during a self defense class when I was in the military.

They taught that the best way to avoid getting raped was to NOT get into a situation where we were vulnerable to begin with.

And that it's not the stranger you should be most afraid of.

[Marrah_G]

16. Wow, that is fucked up.

[Prophet 451]

17. Overturned by high court earlier today

Fully agree that it was a terrible, stupid measure; fully agree that it was ridiculous. This disgusting measure was slapped down by the high court yesterday:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7555299.stm

[Cerridwen]

20. Thank you! For the update and the good news.

It's nice to know there's something resembling sanity somewhere on this planet. Geez, I just realized how far I lowered that bar.

Oh well, you brought good news. Thank you.

[Solly Mack]

35. Good. Thanks!

Whew...was I about to let rip

[indepat]

31. Guess they reason a girl having had a libation becomes an attractive nuisance

:shrug: :P