Correct me if I am wrong...but I don't seem to recall anyone from Wall Street sending me a check

[Horse with no Name]

when they were making record profits...so why should I pay for them when they fall on their face from bad investments?

[David Dunham]

1. Did you ever get a dividend or have stocks go up in your 401k?

[lostnotforgotten]

3. Only 50 % Of Americans Own Stocks Or Participate In 401Ks

eom

[boilerbabe]

9. Where did you get those statistics

And even if you think about it, 50% is not a low number here. I am one of that number and I can't even think about working until I am like 200 years old--that is if I still have a viable job after all this shit!!!

[Clovis Sangrail]

12. yeah... FUCK THEM /nt

[boilerbabe]

22. I hope I am misinterpreting your message here

Because I am one of those people that work their ass off and have a 401k. If you are not familiar with this type of investment, it is basically because you may not be gainfully employed. We are not elite here. We are just worker-bees like anyone else. Though maybe whom you are addressing the "Fuck Them" to is someone else, and I have probably missed the point altogether?

XXXOOO

[Clovis Sangrail]

25. I didn't think I needed the /sarcasm tag

I am also a worker-bee with a 401k

[Two Americas]

34. they need help

Who denies that? Give them the bailout.

It was a big mistake to make people's security, savings and retirement dependent upon the market.

Why do you think we all opposed privatizing Social Security? (We did all oppose that, didn't we? I am starting to wonder.)

Of course, when extracting hostages from kidnappers, we do not want to harm the hostages. But don't blame the would-be rescuers for the hostages being in danger. And don't help the kidnappers.

[Horse with no Name]

4. I've pretty much figured I would end up losing my 401k in this mess

However, I realize the RISK of ANYTHING invested in the stock market is just that, a risk.
Isn't that what capitalism is about in a nutshell?

on edit:
I am sure I will end up losing my 403b as well.

[boilerbabe]

14. Unfortunately so.

Gone are the days of the pensions.

[boilerbabe]

7. Not lately.

I don't even dare to look at my 401k. I hate reality!! I think I had like 90k in it and it is now probably 90 cents.

[Canuckistanian]

10. Millions have no investments at all

NO 401ks. NO stock portfolios.

But what they DO have is an employer or the federal govt.

And even those institutions will eventually feel the catastrophic effects of a financial meltdown.

It may be delayed, but it's coming.

Grover Norquist may have the last laugh after all.

[boilerbabe]

19. I am probably just tired, but I don't quite get what you are saying

Is it a good thing that people don't all have 401ks? Are you implying that those of us that do are extraordinarily priveleged? I have worked long and hard to put 12% of my income into this thing that apparently just tanked. I am probably just confused as to your message, if so, please forgive me.

Ever your brain dead friend...

The Boilerbabe!

[lonestarnot]

23. What I think he is saying w/o being paid a livable wage and w/o health insurance,

a little person can't afford to make investments of any kind or even feed themselves decent food.

[Canuckistanian]

28. No, I'm basically agreeing with you

But a lot of people AREN'T going to be affected by 401k's or investments, since they have none.

But their bosses and customers WILL be.

And that's why it's important.

I think a lot of people (freepers included) don't seem to realize that the economy is NOT just people with money in the stock markets. Their EMPLOYERS are.

And pretty soon, they'll realize that those employers can't pay their rising taxes and will fold.

[boilerbabe]

2. Yeah. The only bad part is that our 401ks are now bunk

because these greedy assholes did not manage them properly. We are basically hosed no matter what is going to be done!! I am now going to have to work until I am at least 200 years old!! (almost there...haha)

[BeatleBoot]

5. Because those on Wall Street aren't going to "fall on their face" - Main Street will...

But no one seems to get it.

Enjoy!

[Critters2]

29. Then lets find a way to directly help Main Street.

Without giving a handout to the people who made this mess.

[Two Americas]

35. we have done that before

It works. The government becomes the lender and employer of last resort. We invest money in people, not people into money.

Farmers at one time couldn't afford land and the capital needed each year for operating expenses. The government stepped in and directly solved the problem, so we could all keep eating. Guaranteed loans, work projects, training, subsidies, improved infrastructure, and other supports.

The government did not tell the financial institutions to go hog wild investing in ag property, and then when loans went bad because of an orgy of greed and speculation, make good the losses of the financial institutions and let the framers be thrown off the land and the people go hungry.

The choice was this: protect the financial industry and lose farms or protect the farming industry from the financial industry and the free market. The government did not say that by protecting the financial industry from its own mistakes, that the farmers would somehow be magically helped by that. True, if the farmers had been unable to get credit, they would have gone under and we would have had dogs and cats living together and God knows what sort of meltdown.

Help the banks and destroy the farmers, or help the farmers and rein in the banks and do the job they are unwilling or unable to do. Easy choice. We face the same choice today.

[OhioChick]

6. Record profits?

What's that? All I've had are pay cuts. :(

[stillcool]

8. Because when the money stops going around...

we all fall down.

[Horse with no Name]

11. I surely didn't agree with trickle-down economics

and I certainly don't agree with trickle-up economics.
If the market is unsustainable for the people at the top of the food chain...then you can be certain it has been unsustainable for the folks at the bottom...for a long time.

[OhioChick]

13. Trickle down economics

Equals the poor and middle class getting pissed on.

[Horse with no Name]

16. And it has been happening for a LONG time. n/t

[OhioChick]

31. I know and I'm damn tired of it. n/t

[boilerbabe]

20. Oh, yes! I think you are right! n/t

[stillcool]

27. What does the flow of money....

have to do with 'trickle-down' economics? I certainly know what it's like to not have any cash flow, and how that can snowball pretty quick when you don't have any credit, or friends, or family that you can hit up for cash.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

15. Because Them Sending You A Check Wouldn't Have Made Them More Money

But on the flipside of your tragically flawed and shortsighted analogy, you not giving them a check will absolutely have negative affects on you.

Huge difference between the two. Huge. Tragically flawed OP.

[Horse with no Name]

21. It is the crux of the matter, IMHO

There is something that this country doesn't do very well and that is shared sacrifice.
We don't see it in the military...otherwise we would have a draft to fight these endless tours of duty.
We won't see it on the financial side either. The poverty level has been rising steadily...do you think this bailout will affect them?
Our ass MIGHT get saved in the short run...but in the long run...our children and grandchildren will be paying OUR debts for the war and this "bailout". How fair is that?
My philosophy is WE allowed this mess to be made...we need to ENDURE the fruits of this mess, not pass it to future generations.
Then perhaps...just perhaps...people will be reminded of the importance of choosing a President and Congress.
Hard lessons and all.
And for the record...my SIL was in a horrific accident as a child. His entire settlement is tied up in this mess--and he can't touch it. He loses $8 million. I will lose my retirement. Do I think it is fair? No. But that is life.
A lot of people are going to have to lose or else we will saddle future generations with the fruits of our stupidity and greed as a nation.

[Azlady]

17. I'm sure the check is in the mail... I'm just sure n/t :sarcasm:

[curious one]

18. specially today when we lost a great deal of our retirement fund.

[Kingofalldems]

24. You're supposed to pull yourself up by the bootstraps

like they do---oops nevermind.

[Horse with no Name]

26. Who needs bootstraps when you have Golden Parachutes?

Was THAT eliminated in the plan?:eyes:

[Two Americas]

30. 401Ks

We fought against having Social Security privatized and put at the mercy of Wall Street. How come?

There is no reason why 401K money needs to be invested in the stock market. That is inherently risky. Who does that benefit? It is not the fault of the anti-bailout people that people's retirements and savings are at risk.

Why not guarantee people's 401Ks instead of the very thing that placed them at risk? How about we stop defending the perpetrators and blaming the victims?

[Horse with no Name]

32. Again you are absolutely correct. n/t

[Two Americas]

33. so many straw men

All of the straw men that the free market defenders are putting up around here are creating a fire hazard.

"All the President's Straw Men" would be a good name for this parade of talking points we are seeing.